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Why do people think Charizard sucks?

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Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
OK, let me rephrase this: Squirtle has lost his reliability because the other two have gained theirs. Here's how I'd put it: Originally, before the meta game was developed (well, at least to a good degree), Squirtle seemed pretty good, but Charizard was seen as rather horrible, and Ivysaur was OK. Around when this thread was born (or because, as it's practically impossible to determine cause in science, but correlation is rather easy to find), people started to realize that Charizard is a pretty good character, Potentially better than Squirtle (At the time at least), so doubts went to Ivysaur. Turned out that most of this was just because Ivysaur is rather hard to learn, so the learning curve was eliminated as a factor of reliability. This, unfortunately, took Squirtle down a peg or two and When he started out on top, the shift in reliability in the other two took it's toll, and a thread similar to this one for Squirtle was formed to try to do the same thing, but success wasn't as high. If I'd didn't get on the wrong foot when talking to you, this would have turned out MUCH better. OK, I have a general rule of thumb for people who think about Maining PT, here it is:

Squirtle is easy to learn, but isn't that powerful

Ivysaur has a pretty good defense, but is hard to learn

Charizard is very powerful, but defense is somewhat low, namely due to his size.

Does that help?
 
Ryusuta

Ryusuta

Smash Master
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3,959
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Washington
3DS FC
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That does indeed clarify things. And I would certainly say that, if each Pokemon were individual characters that had nothing to do with each other, I would use the other two over Squirtle.
 
K

KcajandPopo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
50
When I play as PT, this is how my matches will go (if I start out w/ Squirt that is)
Stock 1: Squirtle: Will get opponent to maximum of 70% (usually below 50) then die XD
Stock 2: Ivy: Sometimes I just **** w/ Ivy. Worst case is Squirt hardly damages them, then I get gimped. Usually I'll drop a stock and get them up to around 10-40%. Best I'll do is kill em twice, although I've only done that a handful of times (I don't really play PT too much)
Stock 3: Charizard: UP THE BUTT!! I will kill them. Period. It's over. One time, got the opponent to 75% ish damage, died twice, came in w/ Charizard....killed them only taking 30ish damage. It was over 3 mins, so I couldn't save =(
ANYWAYS....Charizard is a beast, Ivy can be a beast, and Squirtle is a little p***y...at least w/ me that's how it works.
Plus, I never have trouble connecting w/ Char's fsmash, unlike Ike, Bowser, DK, or god forbid....DEDEDE!
Charizard is the best tank in the Smash Bros. Series....by far!
 
Miles.

Miles.

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
2,230
Location
Snowponit City
KcajandPopo said:
When I play as PT, this is how my matches will go (if I start out w/ Squirt that is)
Stock 1: Squirtle: Will get opponent to maximum of 70% (usually below 50) then die XD
Stock 2: Ivy: Sometimes I just **** w/ Ivy. Worst case is Squirt hardly damages them, then I get gimped. Usually I'll drop a stock and get them up to around 10-40%. Best I'll do is kill em twice, although I've only done that a handful of times (I don't really play PT too much)
Stock 3: Charizard: UP THE BUTT!! I will kill them. Period. It's over. One time, got the opponent to 75% ish damage, died twice, came in w/ Charizard....killed them only taking 30ish damage. It was over 3 mins, so I couldn't save =(
ANYWAYS....Charizard is a beast, Ivy can be a beast, and Squirtle is a little p***y...at least w/ me that's how it works.
Plus, I never have trouble connecting w/ Char's fsmash, unlike Ike, Bowser, DK, or god forbid....DEDEDE!
Charizard is the best tank in the Smash Bros. Series....by far!
Click to expand...
Snake and Dedede are better tanks. IMO Snake is the best.

Charizard92 said:
Charizard is very powerful, but defense is somewhat low, namely due to his size.

Does that help?
Click to expand...
You are playing Zard wrong then. Well spaced jabs, tilts, rocksmashs, and flamethrowers are a hella solid defense.
 
Levitas

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
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5,734
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Ann Arbor, MI
losing 50% health just from switching into stealth rocks is really bad.

I just don't see charizard as viable anymore, his typing is horrible.
 
A

Alopex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
909
Levitas is LOL.

Platinum needs to have a lot more Pokemon learning Rapid Spin in order to keep pocket monsters like Charizard still viable in the OU tier. Poor rock-weaks.

Charizard in Brawl is the best of the 3, though.
Pikachu owns Squirtle, and Bowser owns Ivysaur. Only Mario beats Charizard. FLUDD is so OP.
 
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infernovia

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
675
Levitas said:
losing 50% health just from switching into stealth rocks is really bad.

I just don't see charizard as viable anymore, his typing is horrible.
Click to expand...
Losing 50% of your health can have a gimmick moveset. Like activating salac/petaya berry. Sandstorm is a ***** though.

But yeah, he lost his coolness.
 
C

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
Well, in game this is kinda true, but we're not talking about in game, we're talking about Brawl! oh, and the low defense, I couldn't come up with a balancing thing so now I'll revise it.

Squirtle is easy to learn but isn't very strong

Ivysaur is defensive but is hard to learn

Charizard is Strong but is Large.

HAPPY NOW!
 
SmashKing67

SmashKing67

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
32
Location
Long John Harbor, Rhode Island
Charizard92 said:
Okay, first things, first, this is my first thread so I'm trying my best not to make a spam thread or break any rules from the start so can you be easy on me for now.

Now, when I was a guest I saw a ton of posts & threads saying that Charizard is a lackluster character on the P. Trainer's team, only to be used to use in case the other two have problems or the damage meter is high. But I pretty much mastered Charizard and in my eyes, he's the best of the three.

Please post here, if you disagree, one flaw you see on Charizard and I'll try my best to argue otherwise, provided that I quickly learn how to post.

If you do agree with me that Charizard doesn't suck, you can help, as I am new and I am at the start of the learning curve.'

Either way, thanks for posting on my first thread.
Click to expand...

Okay, Charizard DOESN'T suck, he rocks. Also, I'm gonna start a club for people who think that the Pokemon Trainer sucks, well, THEY suck! Thank you.
 
woopyfrood

woopyfrood

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
1,062
After playing with P.T. for a while, I find that Charizard doesn't need to be called out very often. But when he IS needed, he does his heavyweight job very well.

Too vague? Here's my summary:

-Squirtle started it with his Ninja skills.

-Ivysaur racked it up with range that gave chills.

-Charizard FINISHED it with hard-hitting KILLS.
 
Onxy

Onxy

Smash Lord
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
1,568
woopyfrood said:
After playing with P.T. for a while, I find that Charizard doesn't need to be called out very often. But when he IS needed, he does his heavyweight job very well.

Too vague? Here's my summary:

-Squirtle started it with his Ninja skills.

-Ivysaur racked it up with range that gave chills.

-Charizard FINISHED it with hard-hitting KILLS.
Click to expand...
Choose your Pokemon to manage matchups, not for that old pattern that was thought of at the beginning of Brawl.
 
PkTrainerCris

PkTrainerCris

Smash Ace
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
762
Location
colombia
YOU R DOIN IT WRONG!!!! LOL... seriously, start playing with matcup-based changes and starting pokemon, it will be hard at first, but the reward is very good, and you feel smart playing that way... :D
 
C

Charizard92

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
2,207
Yep. Onxy is right (which happens.. you know what, I haven't even started counting, you're free this time Onxy...)
 
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