Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
Thank You for pulling out the positives, but this was to dispel the negatives though.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Why do people think Charizard sucks?
- Thread starter Charizard92
- Start date
DKKountry
Smash Ace
I was really surprised by Charizard, I thought he was going to be a boozer with extra double-jumps lol. His movements and attacks are relatively quick and his Fair reminds me of a backwards version of DK's quick (and commonly spammed) Bair. I enjoy playing him since he hits like a tank but doesn't drag like a tank.
As far as the Poke-list goes, I actually place Ivysaur at the bottom, personally. Now that I think of it, he feels like the polar opposite of Charizard; he hits like a quick character, but drags like a tank.
As far as the Poke-list goes, I actually place Ivysaur at the bottom, personally. Now that I think of it, he feels like the polar opposite of Charizard; he hits like a quick character, but drags like a tank.
Not so say that you have bad points, but I have issues with some of them.
4. Just about as heavy as Ganondorf, Snake, Donkey Kong, and Wolf. About a 10% difference from Ike/D3/Bowser. Weight is overrated.
5. Gliding is good as recovery, but he can't get much distance otherwise :[
6. Bowser can too, but what makes Charizard's good is its speed and range.
Retro Gaming
Black and White Thinking
Fake AC Nair to jab (x2) aproaches are funny.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
Anyway... I typically take the shortest time to KO with a healthy Charizard and take the longest with Squirtle. So maybe I do know something when I play as Charizard, but I don't typically glide due to the fact that it isn't really necessary, especially if sent upwards a bit, then it requires just navigating to the ground.
Job
Smash Cadet
Charizard's advantage is weight, he can live the longest of all 3. Rocksmash can keep distance with the shrapnel of rocks so you can attack after, unless they get you before you headbutt. Dash to U-smash gets mostly everyone cause it's so wide and guaranteed to get both hits. If you get the last hit on his up+b it can kill, else you'll get punished. fair can blow enemies away if they are trying to recover. Worst glide character out of them 3. Easy to get chaingrabbed, everyone I play say they love it when he's out cause of that.
At least he's better than Ivysaur to me. No offense man.
At least he's better than Ivysaur to me. No offense man.
Job
Smash Cadet
Now if this was Pokemon the game, of course Charizard would be better of the 3, he's one of the most strongest in the first games with EV training.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
No duoy, He is slightly above average on recovery and way ahead of most characters on strength and weight. while He won't be catching Meta Knight any time soon he will easily beat him up.
Enzyme
Smash Apprentice
I play PT because of rock smash, that being said Char tends to be easily chaingrabbed due to his size which can be a problem in tourny play.
Rock Smash though... probably my favorite thing in this game, should always be accompained with some sort of sound effect or comment from the player imo. Favorites include "Brrgghghgkk" and "I got Rocks!They're FREE!"
Too fun.
Rock Smash though... probably my favorite thing in this game, should always be accompained with some sort of sound effect or comment from the player imo. Favorites include "Brrgghghgkk" and "I got Rocks!They're FREE!"
Too fun.
Arcanejazz
Smash Apprentice
LOL ive kinda trademarked the sound effects department in my crew. and my PT is no exception. though the noises have slight variations, this is generaly how i do:
charizard
f-air: FWOOSH!
u-air: *throws head up in air the way he does if it kills* lol
d-air: BUTTSTOMP!
f-smash: *same as u-air on kill*
f-b: WRAUGH! ROCK SMASH!
d-grab: eat my fires please!
dumb, i know, but i could resist sharing, haha.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
What the?! anyway this is at least support. Now there is an apparent problem in the publication of new posts, THIS ISN'T A DEAD THREAD, KEEP POSTING, STOP STALLING!
aequitas.veritas
Smash Apprentice
i think squirtle is actually the funnest to play with. the speed of sonic with the combo ability of mario. that being said,
im hardly ever play PT. so im no expert on the techs or advanced tactics with him. however, i realized from day one that it depends on what character you are fighting. one of the biggest things pt has going for him is the versatility. it doesnt really matter what character your opponent picks, you will have someone to counter. against d3 or falco or even ic's i advise against charizard because of the chain throwing capabilities. against someone like ganon i'd say use squirtle to fly circles around him and then change to charizard when damage is higher than say 60. i like ivysaur vs someone like wario. i dunno. like i said, im no expert with pt but i know that charizard doesnt suck. hes very good in the right situation.
im hardly ever play PT. so im no expert on the techs or advanced tactics with him. however, i realized from day one that it depends on what character you are fighting. one of the biggest things pt has going for him is the versatility. it doesnt really matter what character your opponent picks, you will have someone to counter. against d3 or falco or even ic's i advise against charizard because of the chain throwing capabilities. against someone like ganon i'd say use squirtle to fly circles around him and then change to charizard when damage is higher than say 60. i like ivysaur vs someone like wario. i dunno. like i said, im no expert with pt but i know that charizard doesnt suck. hes very good in the right situation.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
You know, Squirtle is more of a Jigglypuff than a Sonic, he isn't outright slow, but Squirtle is slow. Charizard on the other hand, yeah, I can't argue away the chain grab, but Charizard isn't alone.
washy
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2008
- Messages
- 96
I don't get the point of continuing this thread. If a character isn't so sucky, why does he need this thread? (No offense at all to charizard)
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
OK..., I don't know, I just can't come up with another thread right now.
PkTrainerCris
Smash Ace
How about making a thread of tactical discussions for charizard??? that would be cool, and it will also help people to understand he doesnt suck at all, or how about converting this thread on a charizard's tactical discussion? ... apart from that propose i have a question for charizard users.... how do you use effectively the uair?? i have read that its an awesome attack, but always i try to connect it, i fail and/or get punished, i gotta add that i feel charizard's falling speed very strange, and evena lot of stranger when i use this attack,.... does it affect your momentum???
ssbmaster2007
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2007
- Messages
- 254
Not that I've noticed, it doesn't seem to make you move upwards at all, and doesn't make fall any slower when used while falling.
In my opinion, Charizard is by far the best of the three Pokémon the Pokémon Trainer uses, and yes, I have tried the other two enough to make a fair comparison.
Since that day, that August 13th Smash Bros. Dojo update of the Pokémon Trainer newcomer that uses Charizard for one of his Pokémon, I could hardly wait to use him, now I have, and for months, enjoyed using him very much, more than any of the other characters.
At first I wasn't that great with Charizard, but I've put in a lot of effort to get better at using him, I just owned a Level 9 Ike in under 12 seconds, who is kind of my rival when it comes to me fighting as Charizard, I hope to get an opportunity to torch Ike's face in any match I fight against him. :D
It isn't just a couple of Charizard's moves that are good, his whole moveset is very good, you really just need to learn how to use him, which I was more than willing to do, and I have, and have gotten noticeably better in a relatively short time, you just have to get past the learning curve.
Sure it takes getting used to using a character that isn't super fast, but he isn't really all that slow, either, if you use the right moves, at the right time, at the right place. Of course learning when to use what move where takes some time, but when you have it down, Charizard can be very effective.
He doesn't get sent flying too easily, and imo, has quite good recovery, even if the 2 mid air jumps put together don't really amount to much more height than the one mid air jump of most characters, it is 2 mid air jumps that you can space out, you may be able to travel further horizontally this way, execute them with good timing, and if something is coming at you, you can air dodge it.
You can air dodge multiple times as you're recovering, and still be able to use mid air jumps when you have 2. With an enemy coming at you, to spike you down, you can mid air jump and air dodge simultaneously to get above them, then be the one to spike them down, then mid air jump once more then Fly back up to the stage (not glide).
You can use this evade and counter strategy when recovering not only on an oncoming foe looking to spike you, but also to just attempt to knock you right off the side of the screen, just like before, mid air jump and air dodge the attack, then use his Bair to be the one knocking them off the side of the screen (preferably with the opponent far enough behind for the Bair to be sweet spotted, catching them with the flame at the end of Charizard's tail is quite devastating, it is nearly as strong as Zelda's Lightening Kicks, but seems a lot easier to sweet spot).
I far from just use Rock Smash all over the place, although I must say, it can be an excellent way to rack up those damage gauges if you execute it just right, it can do up to 49% damage, and that's without being Mega sized! It's also effective as a smash attack powered mid air attack to be used against recovering foes.
In my opinion, Charizard is by far the best of the three Pokémon the Pokémon Trainer uses, and yes, I have tried the other two enough to make a fair comparison.
Since that day, that August 13th Smash Bros. Dojo update of the Pokémon Trainer newcomer that uses Charizard for one of his Pokémon, I could hardly wait to use him, now I have, and for months, enjoyed using him very much, more than any of the other characters.
At first I wasn't that great with Charizard, but I've put in a lot of effort to get better at using him, I just owned a Level 9 Ike in under 12 seconds, who is kind of my rival when it comes to me fighting as Charizard, I hope to get an opportunity to torch Ike's face in any match I fight against him. :D
It isn't just a couple of Charizard's moves that are good, his whole moveset is very good, you really just need to learn how to use him, which I was more than willing to do, and I have, and have gotten noticeably better in a relatively short time, you just have to get past the learning curve.
Sure it takes getting used to using a character that isn't super fast, but he isn't really all that slow, either, if you use the right moves, at the right time, at the right place. Of course learning when to use what move where takes some time, but when you have it down, Charizard can be very effective.
He doesn't get sent flying too easily, and imo, has quite good recovery, even if the 2 mid air jumps put together don't really amount to much more height than the one mid air jump of most characters, it is 2 mid air jumps that you can space out, you may be able to travel further horizontally this way, execute them with good timing, and if something is coming at you, you can air dodge it.
You can air dodge multiple times as you're recovering, and still be able to use mid air jumps when you have 2. With an enemy coming at you, to spike you down, you can mid air jump and air dodge simultaneously to get above them, then be the one to spike them down, then mid air jump once more then Fly back up to the stage (not glide).
You can use this evade and counter strategy when recovering not only on an oncoming foe looking to spike you, but also to just attempt to knock you right off the side of the screen, just like before, mid air jump and air dodge the attack, then use his Bair to be the one knocking them off the side of the screen (preferably with the opponent far enough behind for the Bair to be sweet spotted, catching them with the flame at the end of Charizard's tail is quite devastating, it is nearly as strong as Zelda's Lightening Kicks, but seems a lot easier to sweet spot).
I far from just use Rock Smash all over the place, although I must say, it can be an excellent way to rack up those damage gauges if you execute it just right, it can do up to 49% damage, and that's without being Mega sized! It's also effective as a smash attack powered mid air attack to be used against recovering foes.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
Thanks for your support, although I thought for a few days that this thread was dead, but it had a much longer life than the Squirtle thread, which is pretty much asking two things.
1: How come Squirtle is so good?
2: Why does Squirtle make the other two look bad?
I am considering of making a tactical forum, after all, he is somewhat of a versatile character for a tank (like Mario and Lucario, at least, I think Mario is versatile, Lucario is more of a definite) and should have all the positives put together.
1: How come Squirtle is so good?
2: Why does Squirtle make the other two look bad?
I am considering of making a tactical forum, after all, he is somewhat of a versatile character for a tank (like Mario and Lucario, at least, I think Mario is versatile, Lucario is more of a definite) and should have all the positives put together.
Wolfblade
Smash Lord
Squirtle is considered so good because of his speed and combo abilities. And by speed I don't mean his sprint, I mean everything else.
My personal fav of the three is Zard, but you really do have to pick your matches. He is a very large target and quite a few of his KO moves are laggy (exception: Ftilt and the like).
You really have to put my focus on tripping your opponent into your moves to be really effective as opposed to Squirtle's ability to spam ariels and dodge to a counter attack so well.
Zard can dash fast, but he is very slow everywhere else. That is why he is seen as bad by many people.
My personal fav of the three is Zard, but you really do have to pick your matches. He is a very large target and quite a few of his KO moves are laggy (exception: Ftilt and the like).
You really have to put my focus on tripping your opponent into your moves to be really effective as opposed to Squirtle's ability to spam ariels and dodge to a counter attack so well.
Zard can dash fast, but he is very slow everywhere else. That is why he is seen as bad by many people.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
OK, How slow is slow?
Retro Gaming
Black and White Thinking
No, no. Char's Utilt, Usmash, Ftilt, Dtilt, Fair, Bair, and Dthrow are all quick, reliable kill moves. Why do you need to use things like Fsmash for a kill?
Rauzaruke
Smash Apprentice
I'm in the same boat as ssbmaster, I really liked the Zard, but I sucked as him when first adjusting to Brawl. Now, I'm about 30x better than I was before. (not saying much because I was REALLY bad before. Figuring out how to effectively glide cost more stock than the Stock Market Crash of 1929)
Now though, I have to disagree with people saying that Zard is slow. I only notice Rock Smash and the forward smash to be relatively laggy ( and the Down throw if you wanna be picky about it). Zard's Tilts are quick for his size, and his aerials have a large enough hitbox for you to worry about the tiny amount of lag they produce. His Down Smash is very quick and useful out of a spotdodge, and his up Smash is extremely fast, especially if you dash and use it at the same time. This slides you forward while it comes out and catches people off guard all the time.
For me the worst of the bunch seems to be Ivy, but its just his playstyle that is throwing me off. I have to practice much more with him anyway. ^_^
Now though, I have to disagree with people saying that Zard is slow. I only notice Rock Smash and the forward smash to be relatively laggy ( and the Down throw if you wanna be picky about it). Zard's Tilts are quick for his size, and his aerials have a large enough hitbox for you to worry about the tiny amount of lag they produce. His Down Smash is very quick and useful out of a spotdodge, and his up Smash is extremely fast, especially if you dash and use it at the same time. This slides you forward while it comes out and catches people off guard all the time.
For me the worst of the bunch seems to be Ivy, but its just his playstyle that is throwing me off. I have to practice much more with him anyway. ^_^
Wolfblade
Smash Lord
Like I said before, I love Charizard, he is easily my favorite of the 3, but he still handles very slowly. I'll use squirtle as an example again, squirtle can hit his opponent and get outa there right away if he needs too. Charizard doesn't have the speed to do that.
He's a flying type but a turtle out maneuvers him in the air. Big target that can't really do much in the ways of dodging.
He's a flying type but a turtle out maneuvers him in the air. Big target that can't really do much in the ways of dodging.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
Yeah, Fsmash is possibly his slowest move and it triggers real fast, not to mention the tilts , air attacks, and the other Smashes. For some reason though, this myth won't die.
ssbmaster2007
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2007
- Messages
- 254
I don't find it all that hard to dodge attacks, you guys just need to practice patiently and you'll be able to be dodging attacks better than you thought you would ever be able to.
I actually was having some fights against a Level 9 Sonic, and I was actually doing a lot better against him as Charizard then as Lucario (they're my two best characters, so not knowing how to use Lucario well isn't a problem at all).
In one of my matches, a 3 stock match against a Level 9 Link, I KO'd him all 3 times in 40 seconds (without losing a life) as Charizard, it felt good.
I actually was having some fights against a Level 9 Sonic, and I was actually doing a lot better against him as Charizard then as Lucario (they're my two best characters, so not knowing how to use Lucario well isn't a problem at all).
In one of my matches, a 3 stock match against a Level 9 Link, I KO'd him all 3 times in 40 seconds (without losing a life) as Charizard, it felt good.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
Definite proof that A: Charizard is great and B: This thread is only technically dead (It has cardiac arrests, lots of them)
ssbmaster2007
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2007
- Messages
- 254
I think a tactical discussion thread for Charizard would be a good idea, I think I could put my two cents worth into it with what I'd have to say, although I have already said a decent bit in this thread already, despite it being only 3 posts I've made in this thread up to this point.
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
Yes it is, I will make that thread in a jiffy (OK a lot of jiffys, a jiffy is a hundredth of a second)
Alus
Smash Champion
Whats so great about rock smash??? i dont understand why people keep spaming it...
anyway Charizard has got some amazing aireals and not to bad tilts... decent range ,damage and with little lag, ... i often catch people off guard...
his smashes though...i think suck...very laggy...and his recovery takes some practice...but i havent been gimped by stage lips at all...
and his flamethrower is freikin amazing...with some great obseration of your opponent...some practice of canceling...and timeing... he may lead on to long complex chains with Flame being a link!
Charizard isnt the best char ever but he deserves more than this...
anyway Charizard has got some amazing aireals and not to bad tilts... decent range ,damage and with little lag, ... i often catch people off guard...
his smashes though...i think suck...very laggy...and his recovery takes some practice...but i havent been gimped by stage lips at all...
and his flamethrower is freikin amazing...with some great obseration of your opponent...some practice of canceling...and timeing... he may lead on to long complex chains with Flame being a link!
Charizard isnt the best char ever but he deserves more than this...
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
No Idea, people just spam it.
The rest are already done
I already did that. There's a tactical discussion on all three Pokemon individually. If you need help, one of the sticky threads has a link to all three of them.
Edit: Why did you guys even dig this up in the first place, this thread died a long time ago after how old it is and how irrelevant it is now (At least among PTs)
Alus
Smash Champion
i dun know i just kinda ran into it and read through it...
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
no one who plays pokemone trainer for more than a week thinks that charizard sucks
Hydde
Smash Lord
Charizard is a solid character...good average damage and a pseudo proyectile that takes good part of his offensive mindgames.
My complaints for him would be that his spike is too shortranged. I dont know why he uses jis short legs to spike, having that long tail :S
and his smashes are kind of laggy.
His weakness is that he is so vulnerable in the air...as he doesnt have extremely effective aerials and is a big target.
I really think his tail attack needed to be faster.
My complaints for him would be that his spike is too shortranged. I dont know why he uses jis short legs to spike, having that long tail :S
and his smashes are kind of laggy.
His weakness is that he is so vulnerable in the air...as he doesnt have extremely effective aerials and is a big target.
I really think his tail attack needed to be faster.
Retro Gaming
Black and White Thinking
Nair or Bair for faster? Both are pretty good, Nair could do with being a tad faster.
Charizard and Ivysaur are both vulnerable in the air, but ironically Charizard also has a pretty good gimp game. Weird combination.
Charizard and Ivysaur are both vulnerable in the air, but ironically Charizard also has a pretty good gimp game. Weird combination.
Hydde
Smash Lord
well i love nair...i just wished it has more priority. Sometimes i already started themove and i get hitted anyways. Is kind of dumb that the more notable hitbox is in his tail :s
Nair and bair are good yeah but are not mindblowing :S
Nair and bair are good yeah but are not mindblowing :S