Why do people say chaingrabbing is lame?

[mountain_tiger]

Sometimes I see people that get annoyed at chaingrabs, and cite it as a reason for Brawl sucking, but I really don't see why that should be the case.

For a start, there were plenty of chaingrabs in Melee as well. King Dedede's chaingrab in Brawl isn't completely unlike Sheik's in Melee, in the sense that it screwed over a handful of characters and was a major annoyance to many others. In fact, you could argue that chaingrabbing was even more prevalent in Melee because many people could chaingrab fast fallers by using UThrow, whereas in Brawl you can't do that.

And another thing. Isn't a chaingrab essentially a combo, except with throws instead of attacks? Because in a basic sense it's the same thing: a sequence of hits that cannot be escaped. And how often do you see people moan about combos?

Plus there's the old mantra: don't get grabbed. Obviously going a whole match without getting grabbed isn't easy, but a number of characters can make themselves extremely hard to grab if used right (the most famous example being Wario). Plus with characters like the Ice Climbers their grab ranges are so crap you practically have to be touching them to get grabbed.

All in all, I don't see why chaingrabbing can be seen as being cheap or making Brawl suck.

 

[Cosmo!]

chaingrabbing and brawl not being fun are 2 completely separate problems

chaingrabbing isnt gay

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Chaingrabbing is just plain annoying.
Newbies can't do combos most of the time because they can't followup properly.
I've seen tons of Marths messing up F-Throw -> F-Air at 0%... Yet they can infinite characters with Dedede.

Do the math.
Makes the games suck big time against such characters.
Plus Chaingrabs in Melee actually needed much more skills. Take for example Marth's U-throw. It was very DI dependent.
- See also: Falco.
- See also: Fox.

 

[BSP]

"Chaingrabbing is gay"=johning. It's "blank" persons fault for not being able to get around it.

 

[POKE40]

Stop refering gay as stupid


The thing w/ being cg'ed:

-you can't do anything except try to sdi-out
-you't attack
-when your not being cg'd, you John about it.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

"Chaingrabbing is gay"=johning. It's "blank" persons fault for not being able to get around it.

What, johns? I don't see any.
It's bull****, but that's about it. I don't get your logic saying it's johns.
Johns are excuses for losing. Saying Chaingrabs are bull**** ain't anything near it. Not like we're saying we're losing because they suck. We just hate 'em.

Stop refering gay as stupid


The thing w/ being cg'ed:

-you can't do anything except try to sdi-out
-you't attack
-when your not being cg'd, you John about it.

I agree.

 

[Mota]

Chaingrabbing is 'gay' because only a few characters are able to perform it and it's practically a guaranteed 40% or so, in the case of ICs it's a guaranteed stock.

In brawl very few true combos exist and the fact that a select few characters can rack up damage so easily with little skill is kinda unfair? Just my 2 cents.

Whereas in melee there were more true combos that did alot of damage requiring tech skillz. So even if someone got chaingrabbed, a combo or 2 could set things even again, not as easy in brawl.

 

[BSP]

What, johns? I don't see any.
It's bull****, but that's about it. I don't get your logic saying it's johns.
Johns are excuses for losing. Saying Chaingrabs are bull**** ain't anything near it. Not like we're saying we're losing because they suck. We just hate 'em.



I agree.

Oh. my bad then. We should have a dictionary for all these terms but thanks for telling me anyway

 

[zeldspazz]

The only Chaingrab I find really stupid is DDDs, because they gave him bull**** range on his grab. The other I dont find that troubling, just dont get grabbed. Most people say they are stupid because the take no skill and can make you lose a stock, which is true. But, DDDs only infinites on like 6 characters, Falcos doesnt last forever, and you can avoid the spike at the end, Ice climbers actually does take a lot of skill and practice, and Pikachu's only work to a certian percentage, and one of them only on heavies. Not that bad imo.

 

[superyoshi888]

Chaingrabs are gay because Dedede smashes his fat butt into the characters while chaingrabbing. Duh.

But really....it's just about being smart. Find ways to make your character difficult to grab. If you have projectiles, you can keep them away. Use longer ranged attacks. Play Meta Knight.

For the IC's, it's just a matter of staying out of their poor grab range. Dedede's mainly affects heavier characters, so if you main Dk you should have a secondary anyways. What's so hard about this?

 

[Don Kirby]

Hmm... i don´t know!
Maybe some people can´t get around it!
Or maybe they don´t want to lose!

 

[JOE!]

CGs are usually seen as "gay" or "cheap" because it is kinda boring to be in one.

If you're in a combo, usually everyone views it as cool, but a CG is just the same thing over an dover...it gets old, fast.

Another reason may be how alot of people only pick characters to chase the CG.

For example, a Falcon main would certainly be disgruntled if someone they are fighting went to alco just to CG him over and over.

 

[Hive Mind]

Well, a large male penguin sitting on Snake is kind of homosexual...
But that's beside the point.

Combos are less expected than chaingrabs. Which makes them kind of cooler than chaingrabs. Would you rather be chaingrabbed to 300% as DK against D3 then bthrown or combo'ed with tilts and aerials until (s)he puts you in a bad position and KO's you?

Sorry, that was a bit of a bad example, but you know what I'm talking about.

And chaingrabs pressure you to not make a mistake, or you're screwed.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Stop comparing combos to chaingrabs when Brawl has very few "combos" to begin with. Chaingrabs take any remaining competitive value out of Brawl and smash it against a wall. It has nothing to do with competition when you are in control of your opponents. If you are one of many that DDD (for example) can chaingrab, screw DI. You have no hope when you get grabbed. DDD mains can lie all they want and pretend the chaingrab is hard to pull off, but it's not. It took me about five minutes to learn, and I don't play as DDD. Try it yourself. It's not that hard, and I'm sure it's even easier when you do it often. DDD's grab range is enormous, so the "don't get grabbed" argument is crap.

It takes the fun out of the game. What if I decided to enter a tournament with DK as a primary and Wolf as a secondary because I LIKE to play with them? Well, when I face a DDD, he's guaranteed a win because he can press the z button. Doesn't matter how good I am, since DDD can just grab me. I've seen Ganondorfs and Links- you name it- beat good Metaknights, but not every character can beat DDD... all because we allow chaingrabs. Chaingrabs in Melee were mostly DI dependent. Brawl chaingrabs discriminate against the majority of the cast... including a good chunk of the original cast. Why wouldn't people think chaingrabs are stupid?

 

[-LzR-]

ddd chain grab might be a little gay, but others aren't, falcos only work for like 40% and IC's are just cool because they require a hell lot of skill.

 

[Union of Darkness]

Chain-grabbing can be inconvenient to say the least. If someone chain-grabs for an entire match, now that's pretty bad and not fun for either player IMO.

 

[Apollo$]

I willingly fight pikachu's with Wolf or Fox though I know the risk involved.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Looks like some people have never seen language change over time...

Chain grabs are boring. And by comparing it to combos, you just gave me an argument. The physics in Brawl have been made so that combos are few and far between, as opposed to Melee. You would think that, chain grabbing being similar, they would have made the chain grabs few and far between, or a lot less useful, or that they last a lot shorter. But they didn't. So our frustration is more towards Sakurai than the actual CG. Except DDD. Sakurai was just sounding his own horn on something that good.

 

[cutter]

Chaingrabs (as well as infinites) are extremely non-interactive.

Many people don't like it when mechanics like chaingrabs and infinites cause non-interactivity in games.

 

[Moozle]

It takes the fun out of the game. What if I decided to enter a tournament with DK as a primary and Wolf as a secondary because I LIKE to play with them? Well, when I face a DDD, he's guaranteed a win because he can press the z button. Doesn't matter how good I am, since DDD can just grab me. I've seen Ganondorfs and Links- you name it- beat good Metaknights, but not every character can beat DDD... all because we allow chaingrabs. Chaingrabs in Melee were mostly DI dependent. Brawl chaingrabs discriminate against the majority of the cast... including a good chunk of the original cast. Why wouldn't people think chaingrabs are stupid?

Uhhhh yeah it does matter how good you are, because a good player doesn't get grabbed every 3 seconds. They might mess up and get grabbed a few times, but it's not constant chaingrabs. I can't beat DDD with charizard because of his crazy Bair and how good his moves are at spacing, not because im getting chain grabbed to 150%. Just because you dont feel like playing slightly defensively and getting around the chain grab doesn't mean it's impossible.

 

[codfish92]

Infinite chaingrabs/ones that go to 300% = gay/uncool
chaingrabs that only go to 40-60% = a good move.

infinite chaingrabs the gay ones, not ones like falco or pikachu(though i still find those very annoying)

 

[pizzapie7]

I really don't find chaingrabs to be bad. Falco and Pikachu's only to about 60. DDD's isn't really an infinite since there are basically no lasting walls on any legal stages. And the IC's take alot of practice and skill and IC mains that can do them effectively are few and far between.

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

I really don't like being chain-grabbed by the Ice Climbers >_<. It's wrong because I'm using Kirby, and I shouldn't be chain-grabbed like that >_>.

I personally think that chain-grabs are gay because you can do nothing about it until the person slips up and stops...But it's not annoying if it's with characters like Pikachu or Snake...Just with the infinite ones like Dedede and ICs..

 

[uhmuzing]

Just my say, but I really only have a problem with infinite chaingrabs. Namely, D3's on DK or Bowser or whatever.... I'm mostly fine with the ICs.

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

Oh yeah, don't get me started with Marth's infinite grabs on Lucas and Ness xD.

I'm kidding, I don't use those two enough to be annoyed by that .

 

[uhmuzing]

Oh yeah, don't get me started with Marth's infinite grabs on Lucas and Ness xD.

Funnily enough, I'm fine with Marth's.

 

[Tacel]

Why do people call chain grabbing, "gay"? I mean, it deserves to be called a worse word than, "gay".

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

Why do people call chain grabbing, "gay"? I mean, it deserves to be called a worse word than, "gay".

I would totally sig that, if it weren't for my already awesome signature .

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Funnily enough, I'm fine with Marth's.

^^^ You're mean ^^^​

I'm a Lucas main... all you have to do is grab Lucas as Marth, I think it takes less skill than any other infinite. This makes the match so much harder, and as if it wasn't bad enough w/o it

 

[uhmuzing]

^^^ You're mean ^^^​

I'm a Lucas main... all you have to do is grab Lucas as Marth, I think it takes less skill than any other infinite. This makes the match so much harder, and as if it wasn't bad enough w/o it

Just joking man. No, I'm too wimpy honorable to use his infinite on Lucas/Ness. Squirtle, I might. Wario, I will. ^^

 

[REL38]

The people who John about CG's are:

n00bs
main characters that get CG'd
are fighting IC's/D3
can't space
mad that the opponent is getting free damage
main characters that can't CG
angry that Brawl lacks any REAL combos

Deal with it or learn how to get around it (MU's, counter pick, don't get grabbed, other typical suggestions)

 

[Kuro soshi13]

The people who John about CG's are:

n00bs
main characters that get CG'd
are fighting IC's/D3
can't space
mad that the opponent is getting free damage
main characters that can't CG
angry that Brawl lacks any REAL combos

Deal with it or learn how to get around it (MU's, counter pick, don't get grabbed, other typical suggestions)

i absolutely agree, but my big beef with CG's is that its just so boring being in one, when I get CG'd its like "*sigh* here we go again" and wait for the enemy to mess up or finish the CG. During a tourney i have no problems with people CG'ing, thats totally legit, its when your just playing casually with friends when CG'ing gets really ****in' annoying especially when "that guy" decides to CG you into a wall with Dedede.

I guess my point is CG'ing in tournaments = get over it, CG'ing with friends = total douche move

 

[lloDownedu74]

I don't really think CGs are too cheap considering you have to get the grab first, which is the hardest part. Although I can't stand getting CGd by ICs (D3 is no problem cuz I use Peach), if you play smart enough, they won't grab you.

Its possible for Peach to chain throw Fox, Falco, and Wolf (I think) until like 25%, followed by an ftilt which gets them to like 37%. However, it's hard to get the grab, especially when the opponent knows what they're doing. Of course, Peach has a small grab range compared to others, so its kind of hard, especially at low percents when you can't combo into a grab and their % is still low enough to CG

 

[WheelOfFish]

Uhhhh yeah it does matter how good you are, because a good player doesn't get grabbed every 3 seconds. They might mess up and get grabbed a few times, but it's not constant chaingrabs. I can't beat DDD with charizard because of his crazy Bair and how good his moves are at spacing, not because im getting chain grabbed to 150%. Just because you dont feel like playing slightly defensively and getting around the chain grab doesn't mean it's impossible.

Show me ONE video of DK or Bowser beating a decent chaingrabbing DDD and I'll believe the words coming out of your ignorant mouth. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Just because you don't feel like thinking doesn't mean it's not true. DDD's chaingrab is ALMOST as easy to pull off as Falco's or Pikachu's... the difference is his grab range is enormous. You get grabbed, you lose a stock. And with a grab range that ridiculous, it's impossible not to get grabbed.

The people who John about CG's are:

n00bs
main characters that get CG'd
are fighting IC's/D3
can't space
mad that the opponent is getting free damage
main characters that can't CG
angry that Brawl lacks any REAL combos

Deal with it or learn how to get around it (MU's, counter pick, don't get grabbed, other typical suggestions)

Meaning more than half the cast? Wtf are you on? Spacing? Er... overly huge grab range much? Add intelligent people to the list please.

 

[REL38]

Show me ONE video of DK or Bowser beating a decent chaingrabbing DDD and I'll believe the words coming out of your ignorant mouth. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Just because you don't feel like thinking doesn't mean it's not true. DDD's chaingrab is ALMOST as easy to pull off as Falco's or Pikachu's... the difference is his grab range is enormous. You get grabbed, you lose a stock. And with a grab range that ridiculous, it's impossible not to get grabbed.


Meaning more than half the cast? Wtf are you on? Spacing? Er... overly huge grab ran ge much? Add intelligent people to the list please.

1) Bowser s lose to D3's because of the CG. The infinite is what makes it IMPOSSIBLE. Counter pick stages like Brinstar to prevent it or better yet, Switch characters! That's w hat all the hip kids do nowadays :D

2) I see Snake screwing over MORE than half the cast and I see no one complaining about that. Not all of that half stand a ghost of a chance against D3. Look at Snake and ROB. It's still in D3 favor, but they can still beat him.

Ex. I main Fox. I screw over TL's and DK's. But wait, I face a Shiek and get ***** D:
I main Ike. But my recovery sucks D:

I main MK and doesn't afraid of anything.

I main D3. I screw over SOME of the cast with my CG's. But I'm too predictable D:

I main DK. I'm pretty chill here by being mid Tier, but D3 Screws me over >

every character in this game has their drawbacks and advantages. The player is the one who must accept those pros/cons and work with it. Why do you think players that have bad MU's choose to have a second? Because they're smart and aren't gonna throw a match because they overlooked a major flaw which would require them to have a plan B.

That's why Tourney's allow counter picking. To make up for disadvantages and create advantages.

 

[WheelOfFish]

... you are telling me to switch mains because the character I like can be chaingrabbed? No ****ing wonder there are so many MKs. There is a difference between a character weakness and having no control over a match-up because Brawl's "metagame" is so stupid.

Screw it, the solution is obvious from the start. Brawl is not a competitive game and never will be.

 

[Moozle]

The competitiveness of brawl isn't the problem :embarrass MK is not the only person you can switch to. I main peach, and she handles DDD very well, but other characters not so much. I second PT and ZSS because they take care of all of her bad matchups. MK isn't the answer to everything.

Also, the idea of one grab by DDD meaning death is just silly. Sure it will do some damage and he might get in an f tilt or d tilt at the end if you are at low % or suck at DI, but it's not going to kill you. It definitely makes a lot of matchups hard, but only the infinites ruin them like you say. From what I can tell, the only chaingrab that really makes people angry icies ones and grab releases like yoshi's on wario. DDD's is fine in my opinion since it's pretty easy to get around it destroying all three stocks.

 

[cutter]

Wait, what? It's easy to get around DDD's chaingrab?

"Don't get grabbed" is *not* a viable option at all against DDD. I don't care what character you are, you will get grabbed by DDD at some point in the match.

 

[BBQTV]

**** DDD and his gay cheap *** ****ing grab

 

[Sinatra']

don't complain, just spam their *** if you keep getting CG'd