Why do people insist MK does better in lag?

[Skyflyer]

Seriously. He does much much worse. Go ahead, and try to prove me wrong. I've recently port forwarded to boost my connection and my game improved A LOT. Go ahead. I dare you do come up with a good reason why he does better in lag.

 

[Sushi-Man]

Every character does worse in lag.

 

[Anciant2]

Every character does worse in lag.

Not Exactly

 

[Skyflyer]

Not Exactly

Yeah. Ike and Wolf excel in it.

MK doesn't.

 

[Affinity]

I've been saying MK is terrible online for the longest time.

I figured it was the general consensus.

 

[Rocann]

Because you have to search for the smallest windows of time in MK to punish. He's the only character who, even on his laggiest moves and in the best connections, you can see do the move and input to move in to punish, and he can literally do another move before your character starts to move. You have to read MK's mind online even moreso than offline.

 

[xoxokev]

Because you have to search for the smallest windows of time in MK to punish. He's the only character who, even on his laggiest moves and in the best connections, you can see do the move and input to move in to punish, and he can literally do another move before your character starts to move. You have to read MK's mind online even moreso than offline.

makes sense

 

[HolyKnight]

Lag makes him worse, i can't stand online play with him.

 

[Tub]

Because you have to search for the smallest windows of time in MK to punish. He's the only character who, even on his laggiest moves and in the best connections, you can see do the move and input to move in to punish, and he can literally do another move before your character starts to move. You have to read MK's mind online even moreso than offline.

true, but that sig is.... weird. funny, but really weird

 

[Timbers]

the amount of setups that can be buffered to bypass latency delay are what makes MK excel so well in lag.

To do well on wifi I'd imagine you'd have to change your game around with MK, but when everything can be buffered out of nado, dair, uair, dtilt, glair, etc....you have yourself a pretty beastly character.

You can take example to a character like Lucario, where the only viable buffering between moves would be fair->nair.

MK as a character has potential to be one of the most dominant characters in lag. Whether or not it's your playstyle that's complimented or not is irrelevant.

 

[Black_Heretic]

Its not so much that MK does better in lag, he just does better than everybody else in lag (for the most part)

 

[Skyflyer]

Because you have to search for the smallest windows of time in MK to punish. He's the only character who, even on his laggiest moves and in the best connections, you can see do the move and input to move in to punish, and he can literally do another move before your character starts to move. You have to read MK's mind online even moreso than offline.

You have a point there. but the lag screws MK in much more ways then it helps him.

Think about techniques like reverse shuttle loop or the M2K combo. When the button lag is bad pulling off these moves is hard as hell because it screws with your timing. I could pull off the M2K combo offline, and online on a good connection. When the lag came in, it fvcked me up. Lag can screw with the spacing of some moves. For example, I could approach with a glide attack and have it well spaced the first time. Lets say I do it later the second time. Even the smallest lag spike I get can screw me. It could hit, but it would be unspaced, which means if they shield, it would be easier to punish.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Every character is nerfed by lag. Just some characters arent hit as hard as others.

 

[Timbers]

You have a point there. but the lag screws MK in much more ways then it helps him.

Think about techniques like reverse shuttle loop or the M2K combo. When the button lag is bad pulling off these moves is hard as hell because it screws with your timing. I could pull off the M2K combo offline, and online on a good connection. When the lag came in, it fvcked me up. Lag can screw with the spacing of some moves. For example, I could approach with a glide attack and have it well spaced the first time. Lets say I do it later the second time. Even the smallest lag spike I get can screw me. It could hit, but it would be unspaced, which means if they shield, it would be easier to punish.

No one's saying that MK becomes better online, he just gets ***** less by lag than nearly everyone else. I can go and tell you all the things that become difficult when trying to play Lucario online, but that wouldn't solve anything, because wifi is terrible and ***** everyone. Just MK to a lesser degree.

 

[Nic64]

I do alright as MK online, I certainly wouldn't say I do better with lag, but it doesn't destroy his dominance either. it does mess you up, but it's going to mess your opponent up too, unfortunately there is kind of a learning curve and it often seems like experience in dealing with lag becomes more important than the game itself which is total BS...thankfully a few of the people I play with a lot lag very very little. it is a nerf though, people think MK is broken because when played acutely he is near impossible to punish at times, take away competent, real time control, and his light weight actually becomes an issue because he'll be taking more hits that he normally wouldn't, or he has to completely alter his playstyle

I've been saying MK is terrible online for the longest time.

I figured it was the general consensus.

from what I've seen MK mains tend to say it nerfs him, other players say it buffs him, everyone likes to play the victim. it's pretty much a fact that it nerfs him, but it also nerfs almost every other character, how it is perceived to balance out seems to vary...personally I think it takes some of his edge off but doesn't ruin him, it's a huge adjustment though, and not one that many people would want to make

EDIT: "everyone likes to play the victim.", I believe that is the answer to the thread what do I win

 

[M@v]

Mk gets pros and cons on wifi. A definite pro: Nado spamming MK on Luigi's mansion on wifi. WoW >_>.

 

[Tenki]

originally posted here, because it's ALMOST the same thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5524577

You're lucky MK has something multiple things to spam that he can still get away with. Other characters don't have that ability.

Anything that requires something under say, 5 frames' precision/near-perfect buffering, is hindered by input lag. Above that, it's adaptable by the player in control. A counter complaint against Sonic online is that even though opponents have problems hitting/timing their moves to hit Sonic, and Sonic has problems doing things like spindash combos online, the Sonic player can just adapt to the lag to get the timing right on moves. The person on the defense is then disadvantaged because the openings (or in Sonic's case, predicting the approach moves) is more difficult to camp. And on the counter-counter-example, a striking majority of Sonic's gameplay is camping for those openings in the opponent's moves, so it's just as bad, if not, worse for him, who doesn't have any high priority spammable moves.

That said,

Think of it from your opponents' perspective - they have only a small window of time to punish you, and even if they can predict your movement, 'buffering'/ doing the inputs ahead of time doesn't guarantee that the punishment moves will be done to fit in that window, or that their moves will come out in time to either hit you/block your attacks.

Aggressive play from players who are accustomed to online is strangely effective on people, and defensive play is much harder to pull off.

And who can generally play aggressive on most characters with little fear of punishment or being outprioritized than Metaknight?

So in a sense, 'online matchups' are a lie, since it's not character vs character that you're rating as much as it is player vs player, since some players can adapt well to online lag (at least, to an extent), and others can't handle it at all. But aggressive players who can read ahead of time... will generally do better online than defensive / campy (move camping, not projectile camping) players.

tl;dr?
With lag, being on the defense is 'nerfed' due to input lag, so approachers have more of an advantage.
MK starts out with a strong and hard-to-punish approach game offline.
In short, aggro MK is hard to fight online.

 

[Hype]

Every character is nerfed by lag. Just some characters arent hit as hard as others.

Yes everyone is nerfed by lag when you compare it to offline, But you can improve relative to the rest of the cast online.

 

[ADHD]

Try playing the ice climbers in lag, and then say metaknight is bad on wifi. Try playing diddy kong in lag and lose to a crappy marth or something and then say metaknight is bad on wifi. He is amazing on wifi since it's so hard to get around the spamming.

 

[OverLade]

Characters like Wolf, Bowser, Ike and Ganon are a lot better online than offline because they're laggy attacks are harder to punish because of delay, and harder to shield for the same reason. Metaknight requires precision and spacing in some matchups that's hard to pull off online.

 

[magikguy]

i hardly use meta and marth in wifi they both fail in wifi , its horrible

 

[Clouderz]

i own online with MK kthx