Who's the worst character in Smash (in your opinion)

[Arrei]

Food for thought, though: WAS Link truly representative of the series as a whole? Not once has Adult Link ever carried equipment that was unique to the top-down Zeldas. No magic canes, no Roc's Cape, nothin'. Seems to me more like Link was "3D Link", a role that has since been split into "N64 Link", "Toon Link", and "Newest Link".

 

[Arthur97]

Food for thought, though: WAS Link truly representative of the series as a whole? Not once has Adult Link ever carried equipment that was unique to the top-down Zeldas. No magic canes, no Roc's Cape, nothin'. Seems to me more like Link was "3D Link", a role that has since been split into "N64 Link", "Toon Link", and "Newest Link".

He carried the most iconic equipment which, yes appeared in 2D games too. Bombs, boomerangs, and bows date back to the original and the hookshot dates back to A Link to the Past (Clawshot is a development of the same concept and took its place). The equipment was very Zelda, not just 3D Zelda. Besides, your examples are pretty obscure.

 

[Arrei]

Yet the Links have carried features unique to or primarily featured in the 3D games, such as the Gale Boomerang, Lon Lon Milk, and Remote Rune, but there has been no such representation of the top-down games. Obscure or not (and the magic rods are hardly obscure, dating all the way back to the first Zelda and still being featured in Link Between Worlds) the classic Zeldas have gotten no specific representation until Zelda's Link to the Past/Between Worlds redesign.

 

[Arthur97]

Yet the Links have carried features unique to or primarily featured in the 3D games, such as the Gale Boomerang, Lon Lon Milk, and Remote Rune, but there has been no such representation of the top-down games. Obscure or not (and the magic rods are hardly obscure, dating all the way back to the first Zelda and still being featured in Link Between Worlds) the classic Zeldas have gotten no specific representation until Zelda's Link to the Past/Between Worlds redesign.

Because its easier to get the designs for a game with 3D models from 3D games. And the rods are nowhere near as iconic as bombs, arrows, and boomerangs. Those are Link's arsenal. Wands are probably pretty far down when they think of Link's weapons. Especially since he's not seen as much of a magic user. If it makes you feel better, the up and down stabs are from Zelda II.

 

[Arrei]

The justifications and specifics are all besides the point (and I specified the top-down Zeldas initially so Zelda II doesn't count there). I'm not arguing whether Link should or should not carry more items from the top-down games, I'm proposing the idea that Link never was a representative of all Links across the series and thus faulting him for being so game-specific is meaningless, because he has repeatedly been given features unique to the 3D games but has never had any unique features for the other half of the series. If, instead, he was simply "console Link", then they've merely divided that role between the three Links we now have.

 

[Arthur97]

The justifications and specifics are all besides the point (and I specified the top-down Zeldas initially so Zelda II doesn't count there). I'm not arguing whether Link should or should not carry more items from the top-down games, I'm proposing the idea that Link never was a representative of all Links across the series and thus faulting him for being so game-specific is meaningless, because he has repeatedly been given features unique to the 3D games but has never had any unique features for the other half of the series. If, instead, he was simply "console Link", then they've merely divided that role between the three Links we now have.

He was representative because his elements were mostly universal. Also, that is a nitpick on the Zelda II thing. What about bombs are unique to 3D games? Boomerangs? Bows? Spin attack (featured in several top down Zeldas)? Can you tell me that any of those are not prevalent in 2D games? Or how they are more so in 3D games?

 

[Arrei]

Link was given the Gale Boomerang for Brawl and 4. They've now updated his appearance three times to reflect newer 3D Zelda games. He calls the power of the Triforce of Courage from his hand, a reoccurring visual feature of the 3D games. And now he carries equipment specific to Breath of the Wild, with his remote rune, double bow and Ancient Bow. Meanwhile, he's never received anything to represent the top-downs, be they small visual nods or reoccurring series mainstays like the Rods, Pegasus Boots, or Hammer.

Instead, they seem to be directing that towards Zelda, giving her the Phantom in 4 and now overhauling her whole look to represent LttP Zelda. If we take OG Link to be 3D Link, now split between New Link, N64 Link, Toon Link, then we have a perfect division of representation for most of the series.

 

[Arthur97]

Link was given the Gale Boomerang for Brawl and 4. They've now updated his appearance three times to reflect newer 3D Zelda games. He calls the power of the Triforce of Courage from his hand, a reoccurring visual feature of the 3D games. And now he carries equipment specific to Breath of the Wild, with his remote rune, double bow and Ancient Bow. Meanwhile, he's never received anything to represent the top-downs, be they small visual nods or reoccurring series mainstays like the Rods, Pegasus Boots, or Hammer.

Hammer was 3D too, buddy (OoT and WW). Rods also just don't fit in as well, and again, the others are key weapons in both which you don't seem to grasp. And rods just aren't that iconic for most anyway. The Triforce is also not new, so it was a fitting FS for him. By the way, the same imagery about the Triforce is in Link Between Worlds too.

 

[Arrei]

Fair point on the hammer. I get that he has gear that is featured in both halves of the series, the Triforce imagery being reused in a top-down game which only occurred after he already received the update for Brawl doesn't make it cease to be a feature introduced and chiefly used by the 3D games, and the viability of introducing specific items into his moveset is irrelevant. Those do not change the main point: that across the history of Smash they exclusively updated him to more strongly represent the 3D games and never did anything of the sort for the other half. It is thus not outlandish to think that he has been portraying the 3D games much more than he has the 2D games, and thus rallying behind his history in Smash as representing the general series is just one's personal take on the character.

Another take is that he still is representing the general series, and he just has the equipment he does because they themselves are merely the latest incarnation of those series mainstays. Because his set is so generically representative of the whole series that the only real difference is his lack of hook/clawshot, which was an example of removing an item that represented the series and replacing it with nothing.

 

[Arthur97]

Fair point on the hammer. I get that he has gear that is featured in both halves of the series, the Triforce imagery being reused in a top-down game which only occurred after he already received the update for Brawl doesn't make it cease to be a feature introduced and chiefly used by the 3D games, and the viability of introducing specific items into his moveset is irrelevant. Those do not change the main point: that across the history of Smash they exclusively updated him to more strongly represent the 3D games and never did anything of the sort for the other half. It is thus not outlandish to think that he has been portraying the 3D games much more than he has the 2D games, and thus rallying behind his history in Smash as representing the general series is just one's personal take on the character.

It's not like they gave him the Dominion Rod (which, oh look, is a rod in a 3D game) or even an Ocarina taunt (let's not forget the "flute" in ALttP, or the ocarina in Minish Cap, or the flute thing in Spirit Tracks which was also top down). Lon Lon Milk by the way was also in Minish Cap, yes it originated in a 3D game, but guess what? A lot of stuff in 3D games came from 2D games because it's the same series.

 

[Arrei]

And the items as they exist in Wild Link's set are also the latest versions of those series items, but that doesn't stop you from thinking he's insufficiently representing the rest of the series. Is your reasoning for that not that he lacks imagery or mechanics reminiscent enough of the general series? If that's the case, then it is not so odd that, as the Zelda series went on, one could think the top-down games developed their own flair and identity that his Smash depictions never quite represented well, is it?

 

[AquaSol]

I have a lot of opinions on Smash characters, like the Zelda representatives. However, out of the newcomers in this game, it's definitely Incineroar.

In my opinion, his inclusion isn't justified at all. Worldwide, he is possibly the least popular of the three Alolan starter evolutions (I know that statistically Primarina is most popular in Japan and Decidueye in NA). If they really wanted to bring a representative for Alola to Smash, it should have been Mimikyu, who is easily the face of the generation. Something like an Ultra Beast would have been acceptable as well, since they are big parts of the story and many would bring particularly interesting playstyles (especially Necrozma). Furthermore, they bring an entirely new type of Pokemon representation to Smash. Incineroar is just another starter, another fire type (Charizard), and another dark type (Greninja). He doesn't bring heavy popularity or a unique playstyle with him - that's my problem. The mega Pokemon fan inside me knows that there were better choices.

 

[Arrei]

I have a lot of opinions on Smash characters, like the Zelda representatives. However, out of the newcomers in this game, it's definitely Incineroar.

In my opinion, his inclusion isn't justified at all. Worldwide, he is possibly the least popular of the three Alolan starter evolutions (I know that statistically Primarina is most popular in Japan and Decidueye in NA). If they really wanted to bring a representative for Alola to Smash, it should have been Mimikyu, who is easily the face of the generation. Something like an Ultra Beast would have been acceptable as well, since they are big parts of the story and many would bring particularly interesting playstyles (especially Necrozma). Furthermore, they bring an entirely new type of Pokemon representation to Smash. Incineroar is just another starter, another fire type (Charizard), and another dark type (Greninja). He doesn't bring heavy popularity or a unique playstyle with him - that's my problem. The mega Pokemon fan inside me knows that there were better choices.

In Incineroar's case, isn't it likely to just be a repeat of Greninja's situation? Where the roster was decided while the newest Pokemon game was still in development, and they went with whoever looked like they'd make the most interesting character? I can easily see how they'd settle on a character themed after pro wrestling over a seal, the game's third archer (counting the Links and Pits as one each), and a Pikachu ghost in a game with Pikachu and Pichu. Choosing a starter is probably also the safe choice, since all three will probably be popular enough, if not the most popular.

Sticking with the being bipedal and a heavyweight though, I must say it would have been interesting to see Buzzwole in here... though he's not really "bi"pedal, is he, heh.

 

[Arthur97]

And the items as they exist in Wild Link's set are also the latest versions of those series items, but that doesn't stop you from thinking he's insufficiently representing the rest of the series. Is your reasoning for that not that he lacks imagery or mechanics reminiscent enough of the general series? If that's the case, then it is not so odd that, as the Zelda series went on, one could think the top-down games developed their own flair and identity that his Smash depictions never quite represented well, is it?

Because the nature of BotW is so vastly different from the other games, those references begin to put him in line with those like Toon Link who, while, yes, does represent the series, is much more tied to a subset of the series which is fine cause that's what he's there to do. Link received more changes this time than he ever had with any other game mostly to appeal to BotW. Being right handed, double arrows, going from using the power of the Triforce to a simple ancient arrow, bomb runes that completely change how the move works, that Champion's Tunic which doesn't even look that special. That's a bit more than a Gale Boomerang.

 

[Luigifan18]

In Incineroar's case, isn't it likely to just be a repeat of Greninja's situation? Where the roster was decided while the newest Pokemon game was still in development, and they went with whoever looked like they'd make the most interesting character? I can easily see how they'd settle on a character themed after pro wrestling over a seal, the game's third archer (counting the Links and Pits as one each), and a Pikachu ghost in a game with Pikachu and Pichu. Choosing a starter is probably also the safe choice, since all three will probably be popular enough, if not the most popular.

Sticking with the being bipedal and a heavyweight though, I must say it would have been interesting to see Buzzwole in here... though he's not really "bi"pedal, is he, heh.

You've forgotten the stone wolf. Delzethin would be sad.

 

[Crystanium]

No, the past normal Links did a good enough job of just being Link with a particular design. This new Link is more like Toon Link in that he represents one game, not the franchise (yes, Toon Link can represent several, but he's only really taking from Wind Waker). The new Link is far too specialized because they incorporated too much of a game which does not represent the whole series.

It seems to me you don't like change.

 

[Kuragari]

From purely a character standpoint: Miis. I've never seen the point of them and never used them and don't intend to start now with Ultimate.

From a gameplay perspective: Bayonetta. Love the character and was super happy when she won the ballot, but she was broken, plain and simple.

 

[VexTheHex]

Every character has their fans, but if I was honest I'd say the worse offenders on the roster are...

- I felt they were hideous avatars from the get go and now they're part of the Smash roster... though not quite as hideous this time at least. But still, I feel they are boring and take up the development time of 3 character slots that could be spent on someone else. I voted for them.

- All three of these look too close to their counterpart. And having 3 Links (and 2 Zeldas) is a bit disappointing in the grand scheme.

- This guy beefs up the Pokemon and Gen 1 roster wrapped into one character. Just throw some trainer in the background for all Pokemon characters and cut this package out. (Pikachu has Red, Mewtwo has Giovanni, Etc.) Seriously though, all these "Pokemon is bloated and has too many reps" is mostly cause of this 3 in one package deal. I love the Trio, but they really cause issues.

- These two stand out as poor additions to me. Sheik out of all the Zelda one offs is pretty boring to be the one to make it. Meanwhile Samus stripping down to tights and heels is pretty weak as a character addition. Her being in her power suit and fighting super strong creatures like Ridley, Dark Samus, and Sylux is way more interesting than stripping her powers from her mostly for the sake of fan service. Both have good move sets, but the characters themselves shouldn't of gotten in over others from their respected series.

- Biggest flop of a character? I pretty much never see him in matches or even online in terms of fan artwork. I feel he bombed hard.

- Two annoying and terribly designed characters. I have 0 experience with Bayonetta but hear about it plenty to include her. Metaknight in Brawl was just awful... and the noises he makes are horrible to. Metaknight can keep his slot though, but he surely could use some changes.

- Somewhere along the way, it would of been nice if the Fire Emblem team decided to spice up their protagonist to include more of the weapon types and abilities in the game. This lead Smash to 4 Marths, sexy Ike, and two magical white haired sword wielders with a twist. I don't really know which of these is the weakest link, but I do think it'd be nice to see lances, axes, or bows. And yes I support both the main guys revealed over Edlegard since she runs the risk of being another sword user with a twist while both guys having no sword in sight with bows and lances offering more difference to a sword. Edlegard is fine though as long as she leaves the sword behind her, but I do worry she'll bring it with her. Hopefully we don't get the blue haired avatar guy running around with a sword (maybe with a magical twist!) as we'd be combining the issues there. I'm fine with Fire Emblem having lots of reps, but I'd like the cast to be more diverse.

 

[R O F L]

Worst addition: I know he probably didn't take very long to develop, but he has basically no differences. At least Dr. Mario has some significant differences.

Worst to play as: Imo I hate playing as sonic, I don't know why but I hate playing as sonic.

Worst design: Aura is dumb, it rewards you for getting hit.

As fighters,

I know this is your opinion, but come on. He has like one of the best personalities of any Nintendo character ever.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Moving on from my stigma against Corrin........
I dislike the inclusion of , , and . Sorry, they're just boring Marth clones again. Personally, I think we reached enough FE fighters with three. We didn't need three Marth clones and an advertisement on top of that.
I'm also not a fan of , , and . I don't think I need to explain these ones.
,, and just don't suit me. They don't even exist. Only the Duck Hunt dog and duck have a tangible appearance.
, not a fan. 'Nuff said.
: Never played a Pikmin game, and his fighting style is wack. Not a fan.
and come from games that have zero forms of fighting, combat, or defeating any sort of an enemy. They're not fighting characters. And "Villager" really doesn't slide that well with me as a name. If we were going to get an AC rep, thye should have at least had a real name.
may have come from a successful game, but same reason as Villager. "Wii Fit Trainer" just doesn't slide.
And finally, all of the third party fighters (). You can crucify me for it, but I really wish this was just a Nintendo thing.