Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Jmacz]

Moves created in later generations are fine because they must have already existed before in the older games.
As long as you don't bring in anime or Pokemon he has never been seen to own I'm fine. Don't give him a Snivy just because he has been to Unova. I won't argue over spinoff games this time as I suck at the maximum level when it comes to thinking. Maybe our sempai, science god, Dryn, can help us.

The only real reason I was trying to bring the anime (Origins) or the Manga into play is because it is the only source we have on Red's personality. Red in the actual games is meant to be a reflection of the user, so his personality is really up to what the user thinks.

We are using Red from the games. He has to be seen catching Celebi or he can't use it. Having the characters items, abilities, and Pokemon be all up to the player isn't a problem, we can just use one combination that brings out his maximum potential. After that we just add the scripted parts from stadium and generation 5.

Well that seems a bit unfair, we were ready to give him access to any of the first 151 Pokemon. The only reason others were saying he shouldn't be able to have them is because there was no proof of him owning 2nd generation Pokemon but I have proved that. And considering we aren't supposed to be using the anime or manga as a reference, the only thing we have to go on for Red is what the person controlling him does, and what Pokemon they catch. Seeing as users are able to catch all the Pokemon in a given game, why is it that Red shouldn't be allowed to?

It's either we go with the Red from the game who can catch any Pokemon, and his personality is up to the user. Or we can use the Red from the Anime and Manga, who has an actual list of Pokemon, and an actual personality. And seeing as we are going with only stuff from games for other characters it would be unfair to have Red be the only one based off of his Anime/Manga version because he is weaker in that state due to a lack of powerful Pokemon besides Mewtwo.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I want to say that's a probabilistic fallacy, but I could be wrong. Something that has been proved true multiple times does not entail it will be true at all times. Humans are inclined to believe this, however, or more likely to accept 1 in 1,000,000, ignoring the other 999,999 times something did not occur. For example, say you flip a coin 4 out of 5 times. Of those 4 times you end up with heads. Humans tend to think the next flip will land on heads, though this is not always the case.

For one to get heads 5 out of 5 times, there would need to be more people involved, making the likelihood much higher. Using this site, let's observe a few things. This tipster said Pac-Man and Mii will be in SSB4. It turned out this was correct. Then you have Palutena, who is also in SSB4. It wouldn't be a surprise to see Pokemon from X/Y, since that seems to be Nintendo's MO. What about Chrom, Chorus Men, or Shulk?

Right now you have 4 out of 7 on the roster, but I should say 3 out of 6, since adding the current generation of Pokemon is no surprise. It would be a surprise if the Pokemon of X/Y was specifically named, but so far it's not. It's about as equal as me saying, "The coin will land either on heads or tails" and then saying, "I was right!" when it lands on either one. If Shulk appears, so what? Right now he's not on the roster, so he's irrelevant.

You're forgetting he also got Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Megaman right. It is statistically improbable that he guessed 8 out of 11 correct, especially if you go back and see the amount of guesses we had available pre-E3 and how they compare to those particular new comers.

Regardless, no character should be discussed in this thread until they are officially announced. (Although End Game Shulk > All, but I doubt that would be the version used for this comparison.)

 

[egaddmario]

I want to say that's a probabilistic fallacy, but I could be wrong. Something that has been proved true multiple times does not entail it will be true at all times. Humans are inclined to believe this, however, or more likely to accept 1 in 1,000,000, ignoring the other 999,999 times something did not occur. For example, say you flip a coin 4 out of 5 times. Of those 4 times you end up with heads. Humans tend to think the next flip will land on heads, though this is not always the case.

For one to get heads 5 out of 5 times, there would need to be more people involved, making the likelihood much higher. Using this site, let's observe a few things. This tipster said Pac-Man and Mii will be in SSB4. It turned out this was correct. Then you have Palutena, who is also in SSB4. It wouldn't be a surprise to see Pokemon from X/Y, since that seems to be Nintendo's MO. What about Chrom, Chorus Men, or Shulk?

Right now you have 4 out of 7 on the roster, but I should say 3 out of 6, since adding the current generation of Pokemon is no surprise. It would be a surprise if the Pokemon of X/Y was specifically named, but so far it's not. It's about as equal as me saying, "The coin will land either on heads or tails" and then saying, "I was right!" when it lands on either one. If Shulk appears, so what? Right now he's not on the roster, so he's irrelevant.

You're forgetting the part where on his first leak, he got Villager, Little Mac, Wii Fit Trainer, and Mega Man...

 

[Spazzy_D]

Let's not turn this into a Gemetsu leak thread. I've already seen that thing kill about three other threads.

Whether or not it is true has no bearing on who the strongest smasher might be.

 

[Crystanium]

So I'd say yeah, Palutena holds rank over Pit theoretically, but their power differential isn't particularly different.

I wouldn't say that's theoretical. It's fact. Access to the Sacred Treasures places Pit above Medusa, but that's probably similar to the way Lex Luthor is above Superman if he's using his battle suit with Kryptonite.

If Pit has access to the Three Sacred Treasures, I'd say he stands a legitimate chance to defeat just about anyone on the Smash roster, but since it's not particularly fair to give everyone their most powerful crap, Palutena wins that match up.

I disagree. Pit should have access to the Sacred Treasures. If he's given the Great Sacred Treasure, then he does stand above most, if not all other characters on the roster. He would trump in attack, defense, and speed.

You're forgetting he also got Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Megaman right. It is statistically improbable that he guessed 8 out of 11 correct, especially if you go back and see the amount of guesses we had available pre-E3 and how they compare to those particular new comers.

Regardless, no character should be discussed in this thread until they are officially announced. (Although End Game Shulk > All, but I doubt that would be the version used for this comparison.)

Is that after the fact? Because I could have sworn probability is to predict a future outcome, not one that has already occurred. Either way, I only saw those listed in the link. But the problem is what you continued to say. There were many who were guessing, not just one person. This would increase the likelihood of some prediction to end up true. I actually hope Shulk shows up so he can be discussed and critically critiqued.

You're forgetting the part where on his first leak, he got Villager, Little Mac, Wii Fit Trainer, and Mega Man...

I can't forget that which I was not informed of. That would require previous knowledge.

 

[Rabbattack]

http://www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=367&hilit=Samus
This thread alone has everything you'll ever need for Samus. Yeah, she's OP as **** even without the damn Power Suit. If you see Gravity Suit Samus, just quit.
Seriously, Samus could pimp slap most, if not of Marvel Earth's heavy hitters, including Thor and Hulk. Actually, she probably stomps Hulk.
She should automatically be SS+ tier.

http://www.factpiletopia.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=33253&p=421912&hilit=link#p421912
Good strength calcs for Link. A composite Link is truly terrifying, what with possibly infinite magic, multiple invulnerability magic spells, multiple magic armors, a Master Sword on super steroids, and transformation spells. Anyone who can shut his magic off drastically increases their odds of winning, but even then Link's bombs are impressive and there's always the Volcano-freezing Ice Arrows and the indestructible Hylian Shield.
This isn't even counting the Four Sword or Mirror Shields, which are equally terrifyingly powerful.
Limiting Link to just one incarnation is a big nerf. By far, ALTTP/OOX/LA Link is the most powerful in magic and defenses. TP and WW/PH Link are the best in 1v1 combat. Without overpowered magic, Link is a strong metahuman with plenty of gadgets. He's basically Batman, to be honest. Like Batman, a single Link (not counting ALTTP Link) is tricky to beat, but higher tier characters like Samus should have no problem disposing of him.
Depending on his gear and skillset, Link is either low-mid tier, low high tier, or S+ tier at maximum.

Everyone should know that Rosalina has universe-busting levels of durability. There's no reason to separate her from her legion of Lumas, so... she can basically just rewrite the universe and forget to add you back in. This deserves a tier of SSS+.
Seriously, this **** makes 99% of the Marvel universe look like *****es. DC too, with some exceptions. (Screw Flash.)

http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-analysis-pint-sized-petite-prepubescent-pitty-patty-pretty-palutena’s-platoon
Pit is basically Link + MOAR MAGIC + MOAR WEAPONS - Strategy.
His shield is a great NOPE to projectiles. He can fall hundreds of meters flat into the ground, and get up unfazed. He also survived the vacuum of space. Also hits from the building-buster Hades. Nothing drastically OP.
Pit does have FTL reaction times, though, so getting some real damage on him is gonna be difficult.
His weapons are self-explanatory, but holy hell he has a **** ton of them.
http://kidicarus.wikia.com/wiki/Powers
Then he has a **** ton of powers.
Probably S tier or upper A.

Kirby = http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-analysis-pink-abyss-horrific-might


I'll get back to this later, right now I have other stuff to waste time on.

ROSALINA DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO CONTROL OR CREATE UNIVERSES, SHE IS AS STRONG AS ANY MARIO CHARACTER. The Lumas could only neutralize the black hole, but Rosalina needed to use every single Luma she had befriended. Last time I checked she doesn't carry black holes with her everywhere and she wouldn't sacrifice her friends/children for a pathetic victory.

No massive armies. There has to be a limit on how many allies a character can use. In her trailer and Miiverse pics she was shown to only have one Luma as a part of her character. Olimar is limited to six Pikmin and isn't shown using 100 as a part of his character in smash.


Pokemon Trainer is not Red, I've been stupid this whole time. We shouldn't guess a characters canon. Pokemon Trainer is just himself and nothing more.

We can't set the battle in space. We have to choose a location that will be equal for all characters.

The only real reason I was trying to bring the anime (Origins) or the Manga into play is because it is the only source we have on Red's personality. Red in the actual games is meant to be a reflection of the user, so his personality is really up to what the user thinks.



Well that seems a bit unfair, we were ready to give him access to any of the first 151 Pokemon. The only reason others were saying he shouldn't be able to have them is because there was no proof of him owning 2nd generation Pokemon but I have proved that. And considering we aren't supposed to be using the anime or manga as a reference, the only thing we have to go on for Red is what the person controlling him does, and what Pokemon they catch. Seeing as users are able to catch all the Pokemon in a given game, why is it that Red shouldn't be allowed to?

It's either we go with the Red from the game who can catch any Pokemon, and his personality is up to the user. Or we can use the Red from the Anime and Manga, who has an actual list of Pokemon, and an actual personality. And seeing as we are going with only stuff from games for other characters it would be unfair to have Red be the only one based off of his Anime/Manga version because he is weaker in that state due to a lack of powerful Pokemon besides Mewtwo.

He is not Red anymore. We can't mix canons just to make sure it's not unfair and give him the advantage. We are using game canon here, how many times will it take for you to understand that. You didn't prove that he could use all generation 2 Pokemon, you just showed that he could use a select few, but with the inclusion of Firered and Leafgreen he is able to use Pokemon from generations 1, 2, and 3. Because his pokemon are all up to the player, he should be allowed a combination of them to bring out his maximum potential, along with scripted parts as said before. Having a certain characters abilities be all up to the player is irrelevant, I could use this logic to make Mario never pick up any power ups and then say he can't use it in battle as he has never obtained it. All game characters abilities, and sometimes personality, are decided by the player. THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF VIDEO GAMES.

E=mc^2>3.14

Dryn sempai, god of math and science, please help me in this battle of logic.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Is that after the fact? Because I could have sworn probability is to predict a future outcome, not one that has already occurred.

Oh my, someone is being snarky. The clear implication is that it would be statistically improbable to correctly guess 8/11 new comers. We can then compare this probability with what has actually happened. There was a great post on GAF that broke down the number a while back, though. This is not really the time or place though, so I am out.

 

[Rabbattack]

What about Zero Suit Zero Suit Samus? I bet she's pretty strong, taking out everyone without even touching them. Nosebleeds everywhere.

 

[Crystanium]

Oh my, someone is being snarky. The clear implication is that it would be statistically improbable to correctly guess 8/11 new comers. We can then compare this probability with what has actually happened. There was a great post on GAF that broke down the number a while back, though. This is not really the time or place though, so I am out.

Not snarky, but an honest question. I'm curious as to who the authority is behind saying that's statistically improbable.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I wouldn't say that's theoretical. It's fact. Access to the Sacred Treasures places Pit above Medusa, but that's probably similar to the way Lex Luthor is above Superman if he's using his battle suit with Kryptonite.

Right. And since Medusa and Palutena seem to be on similar levels of power, it stands to reason that Pit with the Sacred Treasures would probably win against Palutena.

I disagree. Pit should have access to the Sacred Treasures. If he's given the Great Sacred Treasure, then he does stand above most, if not all other characters on the roster. He would trump in attack, defense, and speed.

You see, if we're ever going to find a winner in who's strongest canonically, we need to keep it simple. The simpler, the better. Besides, all giving Pit the Sacred Treasures does is likely put him in second place and Palutena in third place.

 

[Crystanium]

You see, if we're ever going to find a winner in who's strongest canonically, we need to keep it simple. The simpler, the better. Besides, all giving Pit the Sacred Treasures does is likely put him in second place and Palutena in third place.

I don't see why being simpler is better. What I do know is that if we're going to establish who the strongest is, we need to consider all the variables. I'm content with Pit having just the Sacred Treasures.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I don't see why being simpler is better. What I do know is that if we're going to establish who the strongest is, we need to consider all the variables. I'm content with Pit having just the Sacred Treasures.

If you want to consider 'all the variables', that's a lot of work and more complicated than you give it credit for.

But hey. Knock yourself out.

 

[Crystanium]

I already posted this at FactPileTopia, so I'm just going to post it here.

In the Forest Temple, Link moves heavy blocks without any assistance from items. (I’ll ignore the problem with Link being incapable of bending iron bars with his bare hands. Or I might put that into consideration.) The block – presumably made of marble based on its appearance – is two Links high, or 340.36 cm. tall. It’s a perfect cube, so finding the volume is simple enough.

V = 340.36 cm. * 340.36 cm. * 340.36 cm.
V = 39,428,980.238656 cm^3

Marble has a density of 2.67 g/cm^3, so taking the volume of this perfect cube and multiplying it by 2.67 g/cm^3 gives us the total of 105,275,377.23721152 g., or 105.28 metric tons. With the Silver and Golden Gauntlets, Link is capable of pushing and lifting much larger objects than before. I will simply apply the same calculations to determine these as well.

The Silver Gauntlets allow Link to push perfect blocks that seem to be three times his height this time. Again, Link is assumed to be 170.18 cm. tall, so multiplying that by 4 gives us 838,752,982.12680976 cm^3. And once again, the object in question appears to be made of marble. This means the block would be 2,314,958,230.6699949376 g., which is equal to a whopping 2,314.96 metric tons!

Finally, I’ll address the obelisk. From what I eyed before, it’s 30 Links tall, so this gives us a total of 5,105.4 cm. high. This calculation is going to be different, however, because we’re dealing with something that appears to be cylindrical. This is ignoring the top and bottom, so I will only cover 29 Links for this portion and handle the two other portions, since they’re about half Link’s height. So I’m handling 4,935.22 cm. instead. The radius of the obelisk will be Link’s height, halved.

V = pi * r^2 * h
V = 3.14 * 85.09 cm^2 * 4,935.22 cm.
V = 352,486,984.4188303357481664 cm^3

352,486,984.4188303357481664cm^3 * 2.67 g/cm^3
= 941,140,248.398276996447604288 g

Now to address the upper and bottom part. Each part looks about half of Link’s height. The shape is also a hexagonal pyramid, so once again we’re handling a different type of calculation to find the volume.

V = sqrt(3)/2 * a^2 * h
V = sqrt(3)/2 * 170.18 cm^2 * 85.09 cm.
V = 2,134,156.1582494196550065 cm.

Since there are two parts to this, I will multiply it by 2, giving us 4,268,312.316498839310013 cm., which, with the density gives us 11,396,393.88505190095773471 g. Then adding it all together, we end up with 952,536,642.283328897405338998 g., or 952.54 metric tons. Thus, Link’s strength to push and dead lift objects has been calculated.

 

[Rabbattack]

I already posted this at FactPileTopia, so I'm just going to post it here.

In the Forest Temple, Link moves heavy blocks without any assistance from items. (I’ll ignore the problem with Link being incapable of bending iron bars with his bare hands. Or I might put that into consideration.) The block – presumably made of marble based on its appearance – is two Links high, or 340.36 cm. tall. It’s a perfect cube, so finding the volume is simple enough.

V = 340.36 cm. * 340.36 cm. * 340.36 cm.
V = 39,428,980.238656 cm^3

Marble has a density of 2.67 g/cm^3, so taking the volume of this perfect cube and multiplying it by 2.67 g/cm^3 gives us the total of 105,275,377.23721152 g., or 105.28 metric tons. With the Silver and Golden Gauntlets, Link is capable of pushing and lifting much larger objects than before. I will simply apply the same calculations to determine these as well.

The Silver Gauntlets allow Link to push perfect blocks that seem to be three times his height this time. Again, Link is assumed to be 170.18 cm. tall, so multiplying that by 4 gives us 838,752,982.12680976 cm^3. And once again, the object in question appears to be made of marble. This means the block would be 2,314,958,230.6699949376 g., which is equal to a whopping 2,314.96 metric tons!

Finally, I’ll address the obelisk. From what I eyed before, it’s 30 Links tall, so this gives us a total of 5,105.4 cm. high. This calculation is going to be different, however, because we’re dealing with something that appears to be cylindrical. This is ignoring the top and bottom, so I will only cover 29 Links for this portion and handle the two other portions, since they’re about half Link’s height. So I’m handling 4,935.22 cm. instead. The radius of the obelisk will be Link’s height, halved.

V = pi * r^2 * h
V = 3.14 * 85.09 cm^2 * 4,935.22 cm.
V = 352,486,984.4188303357481664 cm^3

352,486,984.4188303357481664cm^3 * 2.67 g/cm^3
= 941,140,248.398276996447604288 g

Now to address the upper and bottom part. Each part looks about half of Link’s height. The shape is also a hexagonal pyramid, so once again we’re handling a different type of calculation to find the volume.

V = sqrt(3)/2 * a^2 * h
V = sqrt(3)/2 * 170.18 cm^2 * 85.09 cm.
V = 2,134,156.1582494196550065 cm.

Since there are two parts to this, I will multiply it by 2, giving us 4268312.316498839310013 cm., which, with the density gives us 11,396,393.88505190095773471 g. Then adding it all together, we end up with 952,536,642.283328897405338998 g., or 952.54 metric tons. Thus, Link’s strength to push and dead lift objects has been calculated.

The god of science and math has spoken.

Golden gauntlets = Harder swings

 

[Crystanium]

The god of science and math has spoken.

Golden gauntlets = Harder swings

Faster swings would be more appropriate. I'm just going to call game mechanics for Link's unusual behavior to throw bombs normally while throwing 952.54 mt obelisks many meters away and to the point of having them shatter on impact. I'd also say that taking the thread title literally, Link in OoT is the strongest. I will do the same for the other incarnations, probably tomorrow.

 

[Jmacz]

Pokemon Trainer is not Red, I've been stupid this whole time. We shouldn't guess a characters canon. Pokemon Trainer is just himself and nothing more.


He is not Red anymore. We can't mix canons just to make sure it's not unfair and give him the advantage. We are using game canon here, how many times will it take for you to understand that. You didn't prove that he could use all generation 2 Pokemon, you just showed that he could use a select few, but with the inclusion of Firered and Leafgreen he is able to use Pokemon from generations 1, 2, and 3. Because his pokemon are all up to the player, he should be allowed a combination of them to bring out his maximum potential, along with scripted parts as said before. Having a certain characters abilities be all up to the player is irrelevant, I could use this logic to make Mario never pick up any power ups and then say he can't use it in battle as he has never obtained it. All game characters abilities, and sometimes personality, are decided by the player. THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF VIDEO GAMES.

E=mc^2>3.14

Dryn sempai, god of math and science, please help me in this battle of logic.

All I was really trying to prove was that Red/Pokemon Trainer should be allowed to catch all Pokemon up until Gen 2 because that is what you and others were disagreeing with at first. I wasn't even going to bring up Gen 3 because there are only certain Gen 3 Pokemon that are actually in FRLG and they aren't available until after you beat the game. Considering most normal Pokemon aren't really a big deal, and the only Gen 3 Legendary that this would allow to be used is Deoxys who wouldn't really help out much anyway.

But we have come to an agreement that Pokemon Trainer is able to catch all the Pokemon from Generations 1, 2, and some of 3. The only legendary allowed from Gen 3 being Deoxys. Correct?

 

[Accursed]

Just wondering, is Olimar allowed to use his Nova Blaster?

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I already posted this at FactPileTopia, so I'm just going to post it here.

You should post that in the Link vs. Cloud Death Battle Youtube comments section. You'll probably cause a huge ****storm that'll be hilarious to watch. All I had to do was say Link won fair and square and it started a huge war, so you'll probably bring Ragnarok.

Anyway, is your intention solely to find out who the strongest Link is?

 

[Crystanium]

You should post that in the Link vs. Cloud Death Battle Youtube comments section. You'll probably cause a huge ****storm that'll be hilarious to watch. All I had to do was say Link won fair and square and it started a huge war, so you'll probably bring Ragnarok.

Anyway, is your intention solely to find out who the strongest Link is?

Ah, Death Battle! from Screw Attack? Someone did a composite form of Link vs. Cloud at FactPile and it was agreed that Cloud would win, unfortunately. I tried supporting Link, but Cloud had materia and some abilities that directly affect his opponent, like Doom. I don't agree with everything on Death Battle!. I agreed that Superman would win against Goku, or Samus against Boba Fett (both matches were posted on FP where Superman and Samus was declared winner in their respective matches). I disagreed RoboCop would win against the Terminator.

Anyway, I was originally typing up an article involving Link from OoT, WW, TP, and SS to determine the definitive Link. I only got around to typing Link's strength feats from OoT (I have yet to do this for Young Link) and assumed all adult incarnations are the same height (5'7"), and the child incarnations are also the same height (4'8"). What I was going to do after that was say we could use whichever Link came on top for any other matches.

I don't think it would be fair to have some characters fight against others who are out of their league. I don't plan on having Samus fight Mario, or DK fight Olimar, for example. So I think getting all Link incarnations out of the way would be a good start.

 

[Ridles the Space Pirate]

Isn't it obvious?
The clear strongest contestant is:

Spoiler

Pichu!

Spoiler

 

[Rabbattack]

All I was really trying to prove was that Red/Pokemon Trainer should be allowed to catch all Pokemon up until Gen 2 because that is what you and others were disagreeing with at first. I wasn't even going to bring up Gen 3 because there are only certain Gen 3 Pokemon that are actually in FRLG and they aren't available until after you beat the game. Considering most normal Pokemon aren't really a big deal, and the only Gen 3 Legendary that this would allow to be used is Deoxys who wouldn't really help out much anyway.

But we have come to an agreement that Pokemon Trainer is able to catch all the Pokemon from Generations 1, 2, and some of 3. The only legendary allowed from Gen 3 being Deoxys. Correct?

I kind of changed my mind already. Red is not Pokemon Trainer. Pokemon Trainer should just have his three starters, although the other two can evolve into their final stages.

Isn't it obvious?
The clear strongest contestant is:

Spoiler

Pichu!

Spoiler

My brother always says that. Pichu is the best, Pichu is the strongest. It annoys me a lot. Although I do lose to Pichu most of the time.

 

[Tenchi Boom]

I'd say it's a tie between my baby Ness, Mewtwo and Ganondorf. Maybe Palutena now too.

All magic users pretty much. Physically, I'd say Little Mac or Bowser.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Ah, Death Battle! from Screw Attack? Someone did a composite form of Link vs. Cloud at FactPile and it was agreed that Cloud would win, unfortunately. I tried supporting Link, but Cloud had materia and some abilities that directly affect his opponent, like Doom. I don't agree with everything on Death Battle!. I agreed that Superman would win against Goku, or Samus against Boba Fett (both matches were posted on FP where Superman and Samus was declared winner in their respective matches). I disagreed RoboCop would win against the Terminator.

I'm not going to dig through the FactPile thing for Link vs. Cloud, but did they take into account things like bottled fairies? If they're going to count all of Cloud's materia, only fair they count Link being able to cheat death several times during the battle.

I agree for the most part with most of Death Battle's results for their outcomes. I can't recall an outcome anywhere near as controversial as the Link vs. Cloud one, though. That whole thing seemed pretty silly, and I think they restricted the fight not 'cause they wanted Link to win, but because they didn't want to animate all the crazy crap that would've come with letting Cloud have his best Materia and summons. So I think Link won due to their animator's laziness.

I do question the outcome of the Robocop/Terminator fight, though. They jumped the shark to get Robocop to win, in my opinion.

Anyway, I was originally typing up an article involving Link from OoT, WW, TP, and SS to determine the definitive Link. I only got around to typing Link's strength feats from OoT (I have yet to do this for Young Link) and assumed all adult incarnations are the same height (5'7"), and the child incarnations are also the same height (4'8"). What I was going to do after that was say we could use whichever Link came on top for any other matches.

In my analysis that I typed up, or started working on a while back (I stopped ages ago when I left this topic originally), I simply used the most recently represented incarnation of Link, which was Twilight Princess Link. I think we can mostly agree that Ocarina of Time Link probably wins that all hands down, at least as far as Adult Link's go.

Young/Toon Link incarnations are a different story. Without looking at the stats and just taking an educated guess, I'd say Majora's Mask Young Link would probably win out of all of 'em.

I don't think it would be fair to have some characters fight against others who are out of their league. I don't plan on having Samus fight Mario, or DK fight Olimar, for example. So I think getting all Link incarnations out of the way would be a good start.

If you don't mind making it slightly more complicated, a good thing to do might be to organize them into groups of similar powers and decide who's the best of their groupings. This way we have a reason to consider EVERYONE on the roster and crown several winners, with one ultimate winner.

 

[Kamiko]

I've been questioning lately whether things like Pokemon or Pikmin should be allowed as part of a team at all. They're characters in their own right, after all.

 

[Rabbattack]

I've been questioning lately whether things like Pokemon or Pikmin should be allowed as part of a team at all. They're characters in their own right, after all.

A character is Rosalina and Luma, she cant bring more than two Lumas or have the Luma fight without Rosalina. Popo and Nana are together, you cant have one fight without the other. Olimar at the max, only has six pikmin, so he should only be allowed six to fight with.

 

[Vann Accessible]

Is it worth noting Robin (specifically Female Robin, who can learn Galeforce as a Dark Flyer), is the most powerful and versatile Fire Emblem unit ever, except perhaps Morgan?

Robin's still probably not as strong as Ganondorf, but still. Robin is definitely up there.

 

[Dracometeor]

Mario is the strongest. All he has to do is sabotage the plumbing and then hide out in some weird pipe world while everyone dies of disease and dehydration. Game Set and Match. Wait... does Game and Watch even need water?

 

[Kamiko]

A character is Rosalina and Luma, she cant bring more than two Lumas or have the Luma fight without Rosalina. Popo and Nana are together, you cant have one fight without the other. Olimar at the max, only has six pikmin, so he should only be allowed six to fight with.

This thread isn't about the characters as they appear in Smash, it's about using the canonical versions of those characters. Canonically, those are all separate people. Popo is not Nana, and the Pikmin don't need specifically Olimar to fight. Smash should only be used to determine which characters are involved. If we let characters team up, then Link and Zelda would be together, because canonically, that's what they would probably do. But that's not how this thing works.

 

[PTSD Espurr]

Mewtwo is capable of creating powerful storms with little effort using his psychic powers, and upon mega-evolving (yes I know this doesn't happen in smash) he is literally more powerful than the pokemon that created the universe. He blew up an entire island just after he emerged from the test tube he was created in. Not to mention the fact that he's intelligent enough to create a pokemon cloning lab, where he could raise an army of enhanced clone pokemon.

 

[Turokman5896]

Are items considered here? I mean Mario probably has hundreds of power stars hidden somewhere...

That said ganondorf seems very powerful here, only the master sword can hurt him right?

 

[Deleted member]

Robin is Grima, Grima can only be killed by Robin:

Ganondorf has competition now!

 

[Turokman5896]

Robin is Grima, Grima can only be killed by Robin:

Ganondorf has competition now!

Plot twist, falcon kills both!

Seriously though can't ganondorf just lock him away for another hundred years? After all I don't think ganondorf can be hurt by anything that isn't holy like the master sword

 

[AfricanManBeast]

Pit - Defeated Palutena and she's a f*cking goddess

 

[Turokman5896]

Palutena - she's a f*cking goddess

She was defeated by pit though.

 

[AfricanManBeast]

She was defeated by pit though.

corrected mistake

 

[Deleted member]

Pit - Defeated Palutena and she's a f*cking goddess

Grima is a giant dragon that has God-like powers and can only be sealed by the Exalted Falchion or killed by himself, Palutena was defeated by an angel

 

[Turokman5896]

Grima is a giant dragon that has God-like powers and can only be sealed by the Exalted Falchion or killed by himself, Palutena was defeated by an angel

Can robin become grima at will though? But in The event of grima vs Ganon, I'm at a loss.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

As was said, Ganondorf is invencible to anything that is not holy, so basically only Link, Zelda or possibly Palutena and Pit would be able to beat him.

I don't know how strong the Psychic boys are (Ness and Lucas), but Mewtwo is able to destroy whole buildings with just a mere thought, he is also able to teleport a whole mountain to another location so...

Sonic also runs so incredibly fast that anyone who isn't able to hold him would probably not be able to hit him at all.

We had a thread about things like this years ago and I remember each week we went through match ups lol. I recall Ike being able to damage gannondorf because ragnell is blessed by the goddess ( 2 actually) .

 

[Turokman5896]

We had a thread about things like this years ago and I remember each week we went through match ups lol. I recall Ike being able to damage gannondorf because ragnell is blessed by the goddess ( 2 actually) .

True, but I don't think any fe character could stand up to ganons power even if they are blessed by gods

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

True, but I don't think any fe character could stand up to ganons power even if they are blessed by gods

Actually now that I remember Ike with Yune's blessing can only be hurt by someone with the blessing from the goddess Ashera(in that thread we had decided that any order based power could deal damage to Ike) so there was a ton of "invincible" characters.