Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[Serpentine]

Argh, Im suddenly having trouble spiking people. I just cant seem to do it now. When theyre coming back up I D-Air but they just get knocked to the side or flinch a bit. Where abouts am I supposed to him them with my feet? Oh, Im using the PAL version of the game btw.

 

[Falcinho]

U have to hit them at the beginning of the animation because after some time the Dair doesn'tspike anymore (PAL)
If you're standing near the ledge, you're probably not fastfalling properly

 

[kennypoopoo]

Just a Quick note about the uair to shine that I was asking about earlier. I was playing one of my friends who is quite new to the game and he was able to shine out of the first hit of the uair very easily after the hit even when l cancelled.

Hey I also have a quick question. The Doraki Wall jump is there an easier way to get it ?? I dont think im doing it properly. I drop off the edge jump up and wall jump off just under the ledge but that wastes a jump correct ?? where as the DWJ would save my double jump is it just a matter of doing the action faster or where else am i going wrong ?

 

[Umby]

I had a question about LHDL (that's probably been answered multiple times in this thread). When performing it, do you FF AND Jump with the control stick, then quickly press B, or is it preferable to FF and use a slide transition from Y to B? I'm also clueless on the ideal height positions of both lasers.

 

[Handorin]

I use the control stick for both, but it's personal preference. Just food for thought though, I tried using y/x first, but I found it much easier to use the control stick.

The laser should both be low enough to hit. The first one should be coming out as you are rising and coming back on the stage. The second should be about as you are falling.

 

[Falcinho]

@kennypoopoo: You have to smash the controll stick away from the stage while you're hanging on the ledge.
If you drop --> djump--> wjump it's no Doraki WJ

 

[ipitydatfu]

@kennypoopoo: You have to smash the controll stick away from the stage while you're hanging on the ledge.
If you drop --> djump--> wjump it's no Doraki WJ

i thought you could only doraki wall jump with fox. not sure...

 

[Falcinho]

I saw a CF Doraki Wjing, but I think that was on some weird DK stage.
However I don't think Falco can do it.
Silent Wolf anyone? =P

 

[ipitydatfu]

yeah your right, i just looked up the doraki thread. he said that only falco shiek and samus cannot do it. GAY

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Falco can do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyB0bAqQOP8

It's easiest with C. Falcon though, he does it like every time on Hyrule temple. Go figure.

 

[ipitydatfu]

well i guess doraki was wrong then

 

[mlgxhafllife]

hey i have a quick question if my friend loves to grab out of his shield wats the best way to stop this b/c when i play him he always finds a way to grab out of his shield to stop my combo or wat ever help plz

 

[Umby]

Approach him with SHFFLd Nairs/Dairs. If he's shielding,and if you L-Canceled correctly, you can follow up your attack with with a shine. Doing it correctly won't allow him to Shield Grab you. Repeat with Dair to Shine to Dair until he drops his shield or rolls away. Also you can approach him and work your way into a grab if he's shielding a lot.

 

[mlgxhafllife]

thanks i guess i just need to work on my l canceling...is it just me or does any1 else have trouble Lcanceling dairs when i SH Dairs i have trouble i dunno y but i do

 

[Umby]

L Cancelling is a basic skill that needs to be picked up before worrying about most other things. Just practice until you get the timing down.

 

[jwkirby64]

Hey I was just wondering, how do you do that edgeguard thing where youre hanging off the ledge, then charge up Firebird and then instantly grab it? Does it give invincibility while youre charging?
Also, is there a way to jump straight up off a ledge, instead of Falco jumping up and into the stage.

depending on which side of the edge you are on

press back on the control stick and make 90 degrees upwar so it makes a quarter circle. The speed has to be pretty quick and don't forget to press B. you can also press down to shine and JC to firebird (which is easier but u can get hit around the last frames b4 u grab ledge)

 

[ipitydatfu]

dont know where to put this, might as well in the Falco Forums:

I miss the hectic button mashing of melee, and its wavedashing/shffl'ing craziness

 

[hOmeb0i]

help with falco combo on marth:

i start with shffl-dair,shine,jc <-- this part im confused, do i jump once or twice? well for me i have to jump twice just to hit another dair then fast fall, but some videos look like they are doing only 1 jump. Am i doing this combo correctly?

 

[ipitydatfu]

well with marth, you usually cant string more than two of these together. and you jump once, i guess your timing is a bit off, causing you to doublejump. anyways, try not to spam it, marth can still shield grab you.

 

[de_gLory^]

your shine bair is 2 sexy...

i have a little trouble with my shine -> bair, i dont know how you make it come out so fast, do u slide from b to y or x?

and do u have any tips against a very good techchasing marth?
how to play on fod?

nice thread buddy

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Just practice Shine to Bair on characters that float more, like Marth. I use the control stick to JC out of the shine because it also allows me to Shine turn before the JC if I need to. I'd also suggest you learn the time and place for Shine -> Bair, as it usually ends the combo versus many characters (however, at certain percentages with poor DI, you can Shine -> Bair -> Bair).

Tech chase Marth? I usually spam dairs until I can chase in a D-smash, F-smash, Grab (very situational), or Shine -> Bair. Also remember if you spaced poorly, you may have to disengage the tech chase and follow-up with lasers or tilts.

I personally don't like FD anymore unless it's very select match-ups. Fox, Falcon, and Sheik mainly. The important part of this stage, is because it is so plain, is to maintain a play level of unpredictability. You don't want to become stale and easily seen through, so be ready to mix it up when you feel the opponent is catching on. Also, this stage is ridiculously easy to tech on.

My bad, you said "FoD." Laser less. Focus on platform combos. You can stab the platforms into combos very easily, and dair rules this stage. Watch for certain characters, like Marth, and sometimes Sheik. They have fairly large hit boxes that can benefit just as well from the alternating heights. I still enjoy using this against Sheik and Falcon though.

 

[de_gLory^]

dl off stage

i watched da shiz whiz combi video shades of falco and i saw how he ran off the stage, ff and jumps with a DL on stage back, i tried and i think its pretty hard, to do, anyone got tips? i think its pure rapenessif i can put it into my play

and another question: i can do the shine->grab perfectly but i dont when i have to use it ingame. Iguess i got to attack him with dair -> shine->grab but i dont get it, any tips here?

 

[Falcinho]

Try to use the Control stick for those rejump dlasers, works fine for me.

Shine --> grab is good against people who can time theri shieldgrab good or against chars who are difficult to pillar (ics - double shield/ marth - lightshield...)

Shine --> grab works after a shl approach (or just after an empty shffl) , but also after a shffl'd nair/dair.
You just have to land rite in front of them

 

[4 Aces]

For the laser trick mentioned above, how low can both lasers go? I think I can do it, but the laser width is too big. One is too high, while the other is pretty decent.

 

[Falcinho]

waddayamean
both lasers can be low
its just like ehdl-ing with dropping from the stage before

 

[Dark Hart]

I've been having a little trouble wavedashing and waveshining with Falco lately. Whenever I miss a wavedash, I end up jumping; and whenever I miss a waveshine, I end up jump canceling the shine. I didn't used to have this problem, but it's been happening a lot lately. Any tips?

 

[didds]

I've played brawl, but then switched back to melee for the speed. I've been practicing with falco, l- canceling, wavedashing, shines. Can someone tell me how to do the shorthop lazer. I can do it in one spot, but I don't know how to do it while approaching someone.

 

[4 Aces]

waddayamean
both lasers can be low
its just like ehdl-ing with dropping from the stage before

Cool, just making sure. Then I know that I have to make some tweaks here and there. I think either I am jumping before I fastfall, or am not fastfalling far enough. I probably am trying to do it too fast.

I've been having a little trouble wavedashing and waveshining with Falco lately. Whenever I miss a wavedash, I end up jumping; and whenever I miss a waveshine, I end up jump canceling the shine. I didn't used to have this problem, but it's been happening a lot lately. Any tips?

You're doing it too fast. For wavedash, try pressing jump (X,Y, control stick) then waiting a little longer than what you're doing now, then air-dodge. Each character has a different jump delay before they actually go airborne, which dictates how quickly you must input the wavedash command. Ex: Fox's jump is almost instantaneous, so you press the air-dodge buttons earlier, whereas Link's jump is a little "laggy"; that's part of why Link and other slow characters feel heavy and slow. So you'd have to press air-dodge a little later.

Key things:
If you wavedash and instead you jump, then you're doing it too fast.
If you wavedash and instead you airdodge/triangle jump, then you're doing it too slow.

Same concept applies to waveshines. What you hit affects timing aswell, but I'm not sure if it affects it too much. If you hit a person, then there's a hitstun of 3 frames. I know that hitting a shield will have some effect on the timing aswell (more significant than hitting a person, but it's not at the "ZOMG, my timing's screwed" level. To simulate a shield, go to training mode and have a starman touch the training mode cpu. Invincibility simulates a shield. Practice on that if you're having trouble against shields or something. It's all about being familiar with the feel and timing of these things.

Don't know if you already know these things, but I hope this helps.

I've played brawl, but then switched back to melee for the speed. I've been practicing with falco, l- canceling, wavedashing, shines. Can someone tell me how to do the shorthop lazer. I can do it in one spot, but I don't know how to do it while approaching someone.

Dash --> jump --> laser --> fastfall. You can replace dash jumping with forward jumping if you don't need to go as far. I personally like to dash jump because you cover more ground, but jumping forward has its advantages too, like when you're just far enough from your enemy that all you need is a step closer to grab/shine/hit/combo.

BTW, it helps to be able to vary your laser's height. Shooting very low is the best way to go, generally. Hits enemies trying to crouch under your lasers. They might be able to shorthop over this, but I doubt that. Shooting high is nice if your opponent is trying to jump over your lasers. Not full-proof, but it definitely forces your foes to jump higher, maybe even waisting their second jump. They can crouch this, but they'd be essentially pinned down. It also helps against people who can shine/reflect it back toward you (not sure though). The laser is supposed to go over your head (you might need to crough? Again, not sure if this tactic works). Normal-height lasers is just so-so. It doesn't have any cons that the others already have, but it also doesn't have pros that make it more desirable. I know I still need to work on this, at least on being consistent with low-height lasers.

Sorry for the wall of text. XP

 

[Dark Hart]

You're doing it too fast. For wavedash, try pressing jump (X,Y, control stick) then waiting a little longer than what you're doing now, then air-dodge. Each character has a different jump delay before they actually go airborne, which dictates how quickly you must input the wavedash command. Ex: Fox's jump is almost instantaneous, so you press the air-dodge buttons earlier, whereas Link's jump is a little "laggy"; that's part of why Link and other slow characters feel heavy and slow. So you'd have to press air-dodge a little later.

Key things:
If you wavedash and instead you jump, then you're doing it too fast.
If you wavedash and instead you airdodge/triangle jump, then you're doing it too slow.

Same concept applies to waveshines. What you hit affects timing aswell, but I'm not sure if it affects it too much. If you hit a person, then there's a hitstun of 3 frames. I know that hitting a shield will have some effect on the timing aswell (more significant than hitting a person, but it's not at the "ZOMG, my timing's screwed" level. To simulate a shield, go to training mode and have a starman touch the training mode cpu. Invincibility simulates a shield. Practice on that if you're having trouble against shields or something. It's all about being familiar with the feel and timing of these things.

Don't know if you already know these things, but I hope this helps.

I did already know these things, but it's still great to hear. Honestly, the more I think about the more that they seem to be the problem anyway. It makes sense, and it's not that hard to fix.

Thanks 4 Aces.

 

[4 Aces]

You're very welcome.

 

[IrArby]

I have more of a question on methods rather than a how to querey but, I was wondering if any one else uses the c-stick for shffl dairs? Pretty much for any dair but especially for shffl ones causes it allows me to spike and fast fall without jamming the analog stick twice. For all I know this could be the status quo way to do dairs with falco but I don't have much reference so ... just curious.

Also does anyone else sh into opponests, JC, and perform an aerial? Never tried it on a person and even on CPUs its difficult to pull off. I got the idea from switching between fox and falco but, I'm guessing its not super viable though otherwise I'd have seen in combo videos more.

 

[Falcinho]

1.) I myself think shffling Dairs with the c-stick is great, especially to pillar the s*** out of peoples shields

2.) You mean, you wanna sh against their shield -->SHINE--> DJ?
I'd only recommend this if their shield is low and you can shieldstab --> then bair ftkill or dair ftcombo

 

[IrArby]

I mean run, jump, and (when your in range) shine while still in the air. Then you jump cancel hopefully into an aerial. No real advantage but maybe a decent changeup when your approaching with lasers you short hop-shine rather than laser to grab or laser to shffl aerial. Make sense?

 

[lonelytraveler8]

Any tips on what the best throws are against a Fox, in general? I tend to use them mostly for throwing him off the edge and then edgeguarding. But at low percentages, all of my throws usually end in me getting punished.

For example, my favorite throw is the dthrow, but if I use it, he can tech and grab me faster than I can shine or dtilt.

I've tried using the uthrow, but if he DIs in either direction there's really nothing I can do.

And at low percentages, the bthrow and fthrow just don't have enough knockback or stun.

 

[ipitydatfu]

yeah read the stickies, shine combos works well

 

[Miharu]

For example, my favorite throw is the dthrow, but if I use it, he can tech and grab me faster than I can shine or dtilt.

This should only be used as a mixup when they're not expecting it, otherwise the Fox will do exactly as you've stated.

I've tried using the uthrow, but if he DIs in either direction there's really nothing I can do.

Incorrect. Be sure to uthrow as soon as you get the grab to minimize the window for DI, and if you manage that, a shine or aerial will serve nicely as a followup. If they do DI, then any aerial works fine. At higher percentages, uthrow bair sets up nicely for edgeguarding.

And at low percentages, the bthrow and fthrow just don't have enough knockback or stun.

Bthrow is used much like dthrow, as a mixup, and is a pseudo chainthrow given neutral or DI towards you. Both throws at lower percentages can lead to another grab, or potential tech chases when combined with Falco's laser game.

 

[lonelytraveler8]

Alright, thanks for the tips. I've tried doing things out of the uthrow, but he always seems to jump out of it before I can even move after the throw. Practice makes perfect, I suppose. If I can land a shine or knock him off the edge, I'm usually fine from there. He's fast (and small), though, so landing that initial shine is usually quite tricky.

 

[C@sH Mooney]

Bronson, you best get back to the game!

 

[DaShizWiz]

Dang Cash Mooney, you got more posts then me now. Lol.

 

[peterx]

Whats your method of multishining, i'm trying to find an alternate way other than control stick jcing the shine then quickly smashing it down to shine again, any tips?