Who Is To Blame For Possible Nintendo Downfall?

[M.K]

Reggie?
Sakurai?
Cammie?
Miyamoto?
Third-Parties?

You decide! It is hard to pinpoint a single reason, but I absolutely can't STAND Reggie. What a ****ing dimwit.

 

[Overload]

the consumer

 

[Mic_128]

1. Reggie is awsome.

2. Nintendo is far from a downfall. They excrete money. Just because we don't like their current decisions, the vast majority of their customers like it and buy it.

 

[Firus]

Possible? It's already happened, and it's real.

But yeah, is "all of the above" an answer? And can I add one more possibility?

If so, "All of the above", including my added answer, "Casuals".
They're all to blame. Cammie really makes me want to destroy something, in particular. Casuals are probably the biggest culprit, though.

Everyone there, in one way, shape, or form has contributed to it.

2. Nintendo is far from a downfall. They excrete money. Just because we don't like their current decisions, the vast majority of their customers like it and buy it.

That's what we're talking about. Not economically, but in their quality of games.

And the vast majority of their customers don't count because they're casuals.

 

[Ilex]

There's more casuals than gamers out there, and Nintendo is exploiting that. It was probably started by either Shiggy or someone else who brought up the idea of appealing to a different crowd. In a way you can also blame Microsoft and SONY because it's those two whom Nintendo is trying to be different from.

 

[samdaballer]

though i strongly dislike nintendo's direction, they're making more money than ever for appealing to non-gamers, unlike microsoft

 

[Mic_128]

And the vast majority of their customers don't count because they're casuals.

You are an idiot. The biggest audience, which Nintendo has been earning billions of dollars from doesn't 'count' because they don't *****, whine, complain, threaten, insult, and attack Ninty because "You included ____! U suk!"

Or do you just say they don't count because you're worried that Nintendo will just give up on the 'core' and make games for the people who buy games?

 

[Ilex]

Or do you just say they don't count because you're worried that Nintendo will just give up on the 'core' and make games for the people who buy games?

Obviously that's why all gamers hate casuals.

 

[DTKPch]

Frankly, I'm pissed at Nintendo right now, as I'm sure a high percentage of true gamers are. I understand and respect there business decision of orienting their games more towards the casual audience, but it still angers me.

As for whose fault it is, I don't think we can blame it on any one person. I definitely don't think it's the casual gamers fault, since they are after all just casual gamers. They want something, core gamers want something else, and blah blah blah. Is it the casual gamers fault for buying what Nintendo makes? It's just what they're supposed to do. If they didn't buy these games, they wouldn't be casual gamers. They'd be non-gamers. I hardly think it's the casual gamers fault for merely existing.

I do believe, however, that the blame can be spread among members of the Nintendo company. It was their active choice to cater to the casual crowd, mostly shunning the desires and requests of core gamers.

Some may view Nintendo as a sell-out company for their actions. As Sony and Microsoft continue to create deep, worthwhile games, they make less money, although it's still a significant amount. Nintendo focuses more on catering to the larger crowd, so that it can make more money, at the cost of leaving behind more intense gamers.

I feel that Nintendo is effectively creating an even lower echelon of gamers. The so called "casual" gamers of 5 or 10 years ago are more towards the middle of the gaming scale, while Nintendo is introducing another crowd of people who would not have even thought of playing video games, had it not been for Nintendo.

Of course, out of these 3 gaming giants, don't you think it is actually good for Nintendo to do this? Sure, it screws over people like me, but it also helps other people a great deal. Nintendo helps more people learn about video games, as more intense gamers like me can shift towards other companies (e.g. Blizzard, which is currently making Starcraft 2 and Diablo III).

Would you call this a downfall for the gaming industry as a whole?
I would call it a Golden Age.

Would you call this a downfall for Nintendo specifically?
From the view of the core gamer, yes, I do see it as a downfall.

 

[Talazala]

By your definition, what games do "hardcore gamers" want?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I blame both Nintendo and the casual gamers.

1. The casual gamers for whining


2. Nintendo for being **** smart enough to realize that many kids have parents with deep pockets.

 

[Crimson King]

You are an idiot. The biggest audience, which Nintendo has been earning billions of dollars from doesn't 'count' because they don't *****, whine, complain, threaten, insult, and attack Ninty because "You included ____! U suk!"

Or do you just say they don't count because you're worried that Nintendo will just give up on the 'core' and make games for the people who buy games?

You have to understand, Mic. Until this generation, most Nintendo loyalist figured Nintendo was different and actually cared about them. I've been playing Playstation since the PS1 and PC since... DOS... and I am pretty much trained to know that if I stop paying, the companies will stop caring. With Nintendo, when their focus was on a more gaming-centric audience, everyone had what they wanted. Now, they are using the Sony/Microsoft marketing plan of target everyone, and core gamers are feeling left out.

Honestly though, if you don't like Nintendo's current trend - stop buying their products. There is no reason for them to make new games because you whine about it on a message board. They are, and always were, a gaming business. Now, they are finally targeting the people who will pay the most - casuals.

Casual gamers will pick up Mario Party 6, 7, 8, and 9 if they are spaced out far enough. This is actually the EA marketing strategy where if you make enough content different from series entry to series entry, gamers will buy it. See The Sims 1 and 2 and Ultima Online as a reference. Nintendo is just doing what they've always done: watch out for their bank accounts, just now it's with a focus to a gamer who doesn't really care about compelling story or difficulty, but just wants to have fun, hence, the mini-games.

 

[Firus]

You are an idiot. The biggest audience, which Nintendo has been earning billions of dollars from doesn't 'count' because they don't *****, whine, complain, threaten, insult, and attack Ninty because "You included ____! U suk!"

Or do you just say they don't count because you're worried that Nintendo will just give up on the 'core' and make games for the people who buy games?

Their biggest audience liking their products doesn't matter to me because I don't like that audience nor do I like 90% of the products they give us. "Count" was the wrong word.

And Nintendo has practically given up on the core. I didn't even realize it until now, but when they gave us Pikmin 3, everyone was like "Yes! They didn't forget the core!" So now it's a surprise if they give us anything? If they hadn't given up on us yet, they'd stop making us settle for what the casuals want and making us beg for any hardcore games. They'd stop telling us we're "geeks and otaku", they'd stop insisting that deleting games "when we're done with them" (which I'm NEVER done with a game unless it's awful) is a good solution for the lack of a hard drive. They HAVE given up on us practically. They can't completely because otherwise we'll realize they're completely and totally screwing us over and we'll stop buying their product, but they're not paying much attention to us anymore.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, it's the casuals who whined and *****ed because the games are too hard and won't buy them, and that's why Nintendo has decided to make Zelda "more accessible" to them.

In any case, no one needs to explain to me that this is a smart decision, economically, for them. I understand this. I just wish they wouldn't do whatever they can to get money and...you know, not screw us over at every turn.

I blame both Nintendo and the casual gamers.

1. The casual gamers for whining

2. Nintendo for being **** smart enough to realize that many kids have parents with deep pockets.

Yeah. Sadly enough, they hit the jackpot with the casuals.

You have to understand, Mic. Until this generation, most Nintendo loyalist figured Nintendo was different and actually cared about them. I've been playing Playstation since the PS1 and PC since... DOS... and I am pretty much trained to know that if I stop paying, the companies will stop caring. With Nintendo, when their focus was on a more gaming-centric audience, everyone had what they wanted. Now, they are using the Sony/Microsoft marketing plan of target everyone, and core gamers are feeling left out.

Honestly though, if you don't like Nintendo's current trend - stop buying their products. There is no reason for them to make new games because you whine about it on a message board. They are, and always were, a gaming business. Now, they are finally targeting the people who will pay the most - casuals.

Casual gamers will pick up Mario Party 6, 7, 8, and 9 if they are spaced out far enough. This is actually the EA marketing strategy where if you make enough content different from series entry to series entry, gamers will buy it. See The Sims 1 and 2 and Ultima Online as a reference. Nintendo is just doing what they've always done: watch out for their bank accounts, just now it's with a focus to a gamer who doesn't really care about compelling story or difficulty, but just wants to have fun, hence, the mini-games.

I didn't necessarily think they cared about me...I just figured they wouldn't drop me as soon as they find a better customer. Clearly, I was stupid to ever think that, as they are, as you've pointed out many times, a business. Does it still irk me? Yes, very much so.

I don't like Nintendo's current trend, and I'd really like to stop supporting them, but I can't really buy one of the other consoles at this point, and I would probably prefer the good games Nintendo has over the other consoles' games. I'm a sucker for their first-party titles. Now, if they really start to screw with those and make them more "accessible" to the casuals, just as they plan to do with Zelda, then I may stop liking their first-party titles and dump them. But for now, as much as I'd love to abandon Nintendo (not that they care) and stay with Microsoft or Sony next gen, I thought about it and I can't imagine going another generation without titles like the Pokemon games, Metroid games, Zelda games, etc. I can't imagine going next gen with a console I'm not entirely fond of if they still have those titles coming out.

The best I can do is buy very few of their products and play retro games. Which is pretty much what I intend to do.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

maybe the fact that their huge titles are wii music and animal crossing this year. the only good thing from E3 is confirmed new zelda and pikmin titles and possibley wii sports resort.

 

[Bowser King]

Those who say that by not buying nintendo games to cause some sort of "effect" on nintendo are wrong. Casuals will still buy the games, what more does nintendo want? If we leave we will barely dent nintendo's sales. Casuals far out number the core gamers.

They feed us games like pikmen 3 and animal crossing which they know they can try and change to get both audiences. They haven't sold a single game that has not changed casually (except FE:RD and curroption).They really don't need us. That would only cause further problems as nintendo might even go as far as to saying "forget FE and f-zero they don't sell, all were doing is losing money". Maybe even make those games casual "HEY look, you can swing the Wiimote around to attack! Plus now FE is easier then ever! Invite your brother sister even grandma and enjoy swing your brains out!
We really have thought of everything."

 

[doom dragon 105]

them not making more fire emblem games

 

[Bowser King]

Really?? Link please!

Or are you saying there not making more for wii?

 

[PKSkyler]

Reggie, of course. What kinda ****-squeeze wont release freakin MOTHER 3 after its in SMASH BROS for christs sake. Also, hes a jerk-off cause he wont even give us earthbound on the Virtual console, but we got all this Turbo-Grafx ****. EARTHBOUND, its already in the USA, just put it on the virtual console. No translating, and all of us MOTHER fanboys will buy it even though we all have the ROMS and youll get lots of $$$...you reading this, NOA?!

Sorry, had to vent a bit there.

 

[motherfan]

Reggie, of course. What kinda ****-squeeze wont release freakin MOTHER 3 after its in SMASH BROS for christs sake. Also, hes a jerk-off cause he wont even give us earthbound on the Virtual console, but we got all this Turbo-Grafx ****. EARTHBOUND, its already in the USA, just put it on the virtual console. No translating, and all of us MOTHER fanboys will buy it even though we all have the ROMS and youll get lots of $$$...you reading this, NOA?!

Sorry, had to vent a bit there.

Ditto

Spoiler

10pissedstarmen

 

[Bowser King]

No more FE......oh my, that is idiotic!!!!

 

[Deleted member]

maybe the fact that their huge titles are wii music and animal crossing this year. the only good thing from E3 is confirmed new zelda and pikmin titles and possibley wii sports resort.

Wait...for real?!?!

No more FE......oh my, that is idiotic!!!!

I wouldn't say that. RD was only released last year.

 

[Bowser King]

I wouldn't say that. RD was only released last year.

No there saying no more FE ever. I don't think it's true but they say reggie says so (and knowing what an idiot he is it's possible).

 

[Deleted member]

No there saying no more FE ever. I don't think it's true but they say reggie says so (and knowing what an idiot he is it's possible).

*Head Explodes*

 

[Firus]

Really?? Link please!

Or are you saying there not making more for wii?

No no no no no, you're not understanding what he said clearly.

He's saying that it's a problem that they're making few Fire Emblem games. In other words, he wants MORE made, because there's one made once every blue moon.

I'd hurt someone if FE stopped getting games. Severely hurt someone.

In case it comforts you, I heard rumors of a remake of the first FE game.

 

[Bowser King]

I forgot about the DS game! It just sounded weird because he said "them not making more fire emblem games" so I thought he meant there not making another FE.

 

[Firus]

I forgot about the DS game! It just sounded weird because he said "them not making more fire emblem games" so I thought he meant there not making another FE.

Yeah, I can see how that could be misinterpreted. I just wanted to make sure you don't think that FE is over.

Although, considering the fact that it would be very hard to turn casual, I wouldn't be surprised if they did do that at some point in the future.

And that would be the last thing they did.

 

[Puddin]

Uhm....we are? I mean, they are racking in money as if the Wii printed it, which it does, so technically they is no 'downfall' finacially. But as for appealing to the core gamers who want their first-party games to come with a challenge and not reek of casual they are in a slow crawl towards their death bed. But maybe we are just too picky...

With Zelda going to the casuals, and us only getting Animal Crossing and Pikmin 3, and of course Mario has yet to choose a side, it's looking pretty bad for us core gamers who want nothing more but for casuals to disappear, they are like the newborn sibling that takes away all the attention of the elder sibling. In our case, the core gamers who Nintendo has lost interest in.

I am a huge Zelda fan, always have been always will be. But I'm not so sure now that we've been promised the worst, and easiest most casual accesible Zelda game to ever hit a Nintendo Console. Unfortunately this game will be a huge hit with casuals, Nintendo will see how much money they made off it and continue to slowly ruin the Zelda franchise.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Casual Gamers, the unsuccesful gamecube, and Cammie Dunaway.

 

[Sad Panda323]

I am a huge Zelda fan, always have been always will be. But I'm not so sure now that we've been promised the worst, and easiest most casual accesible Zelda game to ever hit a Nintendo Console. Unfortunately this game will be a huge hit with casuals, Nintendo will see how much money they made off it and continue to slowly ruin the Zelda franchise.

Agreed. I seriously doubt that I will buy the next Zelda game if Nintendo keeps their current trend going.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

That's right! The CAZOOUHLZ ARE DOOOMING GAAAAMING! We must KEEL THEM OOLLL and TAKE BACK what BELAWNGS to US!

SUBMEET! Open your HAAAT to EEEEVIIILLL!

*RAGE*

 

[Mini Mic]

Wow talk about premature doomsday talk.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Those who say that by not buying nintendo games to cause some sort of "effect" on nintendo are wrong. Casuals will still buy the games, what more does nintendo want? If we leave we will barely dent nintendo's sales. Casuals far out number the core gamers.

They feed us games like pikmen 3 and animal crossing which they know they can try and change to get both audiences. They haven't sold a single game that has not changed casually (except FE:RD and curroption).They really don't need us. That would only cause further problems as nintendo might even go as far as to saying "forget FE and f-zero they don't sell, all were doing is losing money". Maybe even make those games casual "HEY look, you can swing the Wiimote around to attack! Plus now FE is easier then ever! Invite your brother sister even grandma and enjoy swing your brains out!
We really have thought of everything."

Thats a scary thought....
FE GONE!? FE EASIER THAN EVER!?
I really hope that doesn't happen just so Nintendo can milk a generation of idiots who don't want to strategize and can't appreciate good artwork and soundtracks.
Plus imagine grandma controlling Ike.....

 

[chaos_Leader]

I'm not seeing so much a downfall, rather, a massive expansion of the low-end game. Allow me to elaborate:

I still see great core games: Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Smash Bros, soon Pikmin and others possible to come. They're great, so far all have excellent reviews and I've thoroughly enjoyed all that I've played. What I'm seeing is Nintendo drastically expanding their library of games for the so-called 'casual gamer' and more openly advertising it than their good old core series's.

A similar analogy is seen in Herman Hesse's novel Steppenwolf set in the 20s/30s I don't know the exact quote, but it essentially parallels Nintendo's direction.
[In a bar, musicians play cheap Jazz, the main protagonist is disgusted that they should play the new Jazz music rather than Classical. One of the musicians comforts the protagonist] 'they may listen to the Jazz now, but in the decades to come, people will still be listening to Mozart while the Jazz dies away'
To this day, people still listen to Mozart, Wagner, Bach and others while the cheap jazz of the 20s is all but forgotten.

While you may have your Wii sports, and other meager titles, in the end, games like Mario and Zelda are still going to be played as time goes on, a few alterations may be added for better or worse, but the tune is still the same.

Compare the number of Gamecube titles this far after its release, and compare it to the number of Wii titles now, You will notice how many more the wii has, and most of it is casual-ware, but as far as the number of core games at this same point, they are roughly the same. Just because the core games aren't out now doesn't mean they've stopped caring It means they care enough about their core titles to take the time to get them right. Say what you will about current core games,
they are good.

Nintendo hasn't abandoned the core gamers, it simply invited everyone to the party.

 

[Firus]

I'm not seeing so much a downfall, rather, a massive expansion of the low-end game. Allow me to elaborate:

I still see great core games: Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Smash Bros, soon Pikmin and others possible to come. They're great, so far all have excellent reviews and I've thoroughly enjoyed all that I've played. What I'm seeing is Nintendo drastically expanding their library of games for the so-called 'casual gamer' and more openly advertising it than their good old core series's.

A similar analogy is seen in Herman Hesse's novel Steppenwolf set in the 20s/30s I don't know the exact quote, but it essentially parallels Nintendo's direction.
[In a bar, musicians play cheap Jazz, the main protagonist is disgusted that they should play the new Jazz music rather than Classical. One of the musicians comforts the protagonist] 'they may listen to the Jazz now, but in the decades to come, people will still be listening to Mozart while the Jazz dies away'
To this day, people still listen to Mozart, Wagner, Bach and others while the cheap jazz of the 20s is all but forgotten.

While you may have your Wii sports, and other meager titles, in the end, games like Mario and Zelda are still going to be played as time goes on, a few alterations may be added for better or worse, but the tune is still the same.

Compare the number of Gamecube titles this far after its release, and compare it to the number of Wii titles now, You will notice how many more the wii has, and most of it is casual-ware, but as far as the number of core games at this same point, they are roughly the same. Just because the core games aren't out now doesn't mean they've stopped caring It means they care enough about their core titles to take the time to get them right. Say what you will about current core games,
they are good.

Nintendo hasn't abandoned the core gamers, it simply invited everyone to the party.

Ugh. I hate it when people blindly follow Nintendo and act like Nintendo's doing us a favor.

I've got news for you; just because YOU enjoyed all of the titles released thus far, or even because I enjoyed the titles, doesn't mean they haven't been dumbed down. I enjoyed Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, Metroid Prime 3, I enjoy Brawl from time to time...does this mean none of these got dumbed down for casuals? No. Metroid Prime 3 is the only one that wasn't really. Phantom Hourglass isn't even a ZELDA game. Dungeons were 15 minutes, tops. Twilight Princess was slightly less dumbed down. Brawl, whether or not you enjoy it, was dumbed down to make it easier for new players to come in and have a chance to win immediately. They're dumbing titles down for casual gamers, and giving most of their titles to the casual gamers. Nintendo wants to make Zelda more "accessible" to casuals, and will probably do the same with many other titles in the future.

Okay, the classic titles will be played years from now. Great. That doesn't really help me now, does it? I want good, new games. I love retro games, but I'd appreciate some good titles that are fresh as well. I am offended by casuals ignoring anything involving a learning curve, I am offended that casuals do not play real video games. But I'm more disappointed that Nintendo is giving them what they want. That they're forgetting the core gamers, which they ARE.

They are a BUSINESS. This business is doing whatever they can to get money. Casual gamers are giving them the most money. Every core gamer could stop giving them money and they'd still come out on top. When it comes down to it, the 5 year-old kids, the soccer moms, the senior citizens...the casuals, give them enough money. They can act like they still care about hardcore gamers all they want. Clearly they can convince some that they still care about us. But that doesn't mean they really do.

 

[Mic_128]

I don't like Nintendo's current trend, and I'd really like to stop supporting them, but I can't really buy one of the other consoles at this point, and I would probably prefer the good games Nintendo has over the other consoles' games. I'm a sucker for their first-party titles. Now, if they really start to screw with those and make them more "accessible" to the casuals, just as they plan to do with Zelda, then I may stop liking their first-party titles and dump them. But for now, as much as I'd love to abandon Nintendo (not that they care) and stay with Microsoft or Sony next gen, I thought about it and I can't imagine going another generation without titles like the Pokemon games, Metroid games, Zelda games, etc. I can't imagine going next gen with a console I'm not entirely fond of if they still have those titles coming out.

Or you could, you know, get both a Wii and 360/PS3? You don't sign an exclusivity deal when you buy a console, the wii won't divorce you if you play another as well as. the only reason I haven't gotten a 360 is I've only just started a new job, and am saving to eventually move out. If I could afford to, would I? You bet.

Too many people here are like this comic.
http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20080721.jpg

 

[Firus]

Or you could, you know, get both a Wii and 360/PS3? You don't sign an exclusivity deal when you buy a console, the wii won't divorce you if you play another as well as. the only reason I haven't gotten a 360 is I've only just started a new job, and am saving to eventually move out. If I could afford to, would I? You bet.

Too many people here are like this comic.
http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20080721.jpg

First of all, I'm HARDLY like that comic. I used to be, but I'm not anymore.

Secondly, I have very much considered getting another console. But

I can't really buy one of the other consoles at this point

.

In light of current events, however, I'm really going to try as hard as I can to get a comfortable enough amount of money built up to buy another console. Trust me on that. I'm sick of Nintendo.

 

[Mic_128]

Feel like explaining what 'this point' is? If it's to something like lack of funds, that's understandable.

 

[Firus]

Feel like explaining what 'this point' is? If it's to something like lack of funds, that's understandable.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.

 

[Mic_128]

you should be more clear next time, you were coming across as 'I've dedicated myself too much, I can't back out now' rather than just having an empty wallet like me ;_;

 

[SkylerOcon]

http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20080721.jpg

WE LOVE NINTENDO BECAUSE THEY MAKE COOL GAMES TOASTERS WITH MOTION SENSORS!

Yeah. Firus and I are beating that to death, but that's the mindset of the casual gamer. Casual games, aren't bad. Some of them are extremely fun. I have no problem with Nintendo aiming for casuals, as long as they don't ditch their core franchises and spit in the faces of core gamers.

Which, you know, is kinda what they're doing right now.