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who hates the new diemond and pearl series pokemon?

Steck

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Though I really like the originals (Yellow and Red FTW!) I also really like Diamond. I did not enjoy Gold and Silver so I didn't get any of the later games up until Diamond ( my cousin told me to get it and I really liked it)

I think I played fire red...I recall not liking it very much
 

Chagen46

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Hey Spire, If your ideas get in the next games--Which I REALLY hope they do-- They should include a gaag warning on the back that says: "Warning: this game is much more tactical than the previous ones, and should only be played by people who want an awesome game experience.".
 

Chris Lionheart

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I like the legendaries... they are some of the best so far.
I like the new common bird type (Starly ftw)
I LOVE Piplup and its evolutions (PENGUINS!!!)

But I HATE everything else.

Especially that flaming-*** monkey. It gets even gaier as it evolves!
And Electivire!? WTF!? I for one actually liked Electabuzz.
 

---

鉄腕
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I like everything in Diamond and Pearl, if you don't then to bad your missing out. Also they have just ABOUT confirmed Pokemon Platinum Version, so more to look forward to!
 

Firus

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I like everything in Diamond and Pearl, if you don't then to bad your missing out. Also they have just ABOUT confirmed Pokemon Platinum Version, so more to look forward to!
Why are we missing out because we have a different opinion? That doesn't make any sense.

We can only be missing out if we're not playing the game, which we are. That's how we can critique it.

Also, I just realized (after recalling how I had to change my box organization system because of Water types...) how many water types there are...heck, most of them aren't even original. Most of them are just fish. They really ought to go through and see which types are truly lacking, and give them a boost. Obviously not Dragon, since they should be rare, but Fire is a big one. (I know this has already been mentioned, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways.)

The first and second generations were the best. My guess? Because they weren't forcing them out. They didn't have to. There were still many options. Now they have to force it because they're running out. If they kept the number of Pokemon per generation to a minimum (instead of advertising that they have 100 new Pokemon) and make them good, really good, then this could make Pokemon seem so kid-oriented. Honestly, Nintendo is no longer focusing on anyone but new audiences, and it's really starting to irk me. Brawl caters to new Smashers. Pokemon games have more legendaries and more Pokemon for the little kids fascinated (and possibly amused) by things like a Nose Pokemon. Sonic is geared towards new audiences (certainly not retro Sonic fans...). Mario is geared towards little kids (Galaxy was way too easy). Then they have a million and one Brain Age type games, and a million and two games for the Wii with "Wii" in the name, indicating something geared towards everyone.

/rant

But seriously...what do they intend to do when every Pokemaniac is gone and it's just little kids who have the attention span of 5 minutes and would only buy one game because they get bored of it too quickly? I will laugh at them when that day arrives, because I'm sick of them saying in the most blunt way possible, "We don't need actual gamers anymore."

/rant (for real this time :laugh:)
 

Narukari

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But seriously...what do they intend to do when every Pokemaniac is gone and it's just little kids who have the attention span of 5 minutes and would only buy one game because they get bored of it too quickly? I will laugh at them when that day arrives, because I'm sick of them saying in the most blunt way possible, "We don't need actual gamers anymore."
Sadly, Nintendo will make the most money this way, 5-10 year old kids are the ones that fork out the most money on pokemon/smash games. I just wonder why Nintendo thinks that kids are all of a sudden unable to play games that require any sort of technical knowledge. Their games used to be some of the hardest you could find. Pokemon red/blue might not have been the greatest competitively, but once we hit gold/silver, with breeding and Sp. atk, it became a huge strategical game.

Now they keep adding in all these new legendary pokemon, and all the lil kiddies whine when they're told that they can't use them in most legal matches.

And what are these new "evil" groups (if you can call them that). They're at most very radical environmentalists. I'd like to see Team Rocket make a comeback in a future game. They knew how to use pokemon for evil.
 

Crazy Cloud

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While I like the whole concept of temperatures, I don't see how it would benefit anything besides fire/ice/grass types. How is a electric type's game going to change in any aspect between attacking a cold water type and a hot water type?

I could see something like a "rough skin" ability for hot/cold (something like scold/frostbite) that inflicts damage upon physically attacked.

Although that's picking apart a specific mechanic, you came up with the normal/holy/evil attribute from temperature of the ghost. I'm sure you could come up with more and bind them together and I'm looking forward to reading more about it. I'd definitely pay $50 for a new pokemon with these new gameplay/battle additions. How kickass would a ice-type Charizard look.
 

Firus

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While I like the whole concept of temperatures, I don't see how it would benefit anything besides fire/ice/grass types. How is a electric type's game going to change in any aspect between attacking a cold water type and a hot water type?

I could see something like a "rough skin" ability for hot/cold (something like scold/frostbite) that inflicts damage upon physically attacked.

Although that's picking apart a specific mechanic, you came up with the normal/holy/evil attribute from temperature of the ghost. I'm sure you could come up with more and bind them together and I'm looking forward to reading more about it. I'd definitely pay $50 for a new pokemon with these new gameplay/battle additions. How kickass would a ice-type Charizard look.
Speaking on behalf of Spire, if I may...

It would affect every type, because every Pokemon would have a different temperature. The temperature determines whether it shares traits similar to those of an ice type or those of a fire type. And I don't remember if Spire said this or not, but assuming this is how it would work, (I'm pretty sure this is my speculation) maybe a warm Electric type would be more effective against a cold water type, and normal effectiveness against a normal one?

But yeah, ice Charizard would look pretty awesome.

I did an estimation of it myself;


Not perfect, but...it's just for fun.
 

Spire

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Speaking on behalf of Spire, if I may...

It would affect every type, because every Pokemon would have a different temperature. The temperature determines whether it shares traits similar to those of an ice type or those of a fire type. And I don't remember if Spire said this or not, but assuming this is how it would work, (I'm pretty sure this is my speculation) maybe a warm Electric type would be more effective against a cold water type, and normal effectiveness against a normal one?

But yeah, ice Charizard would look pretty awesome.

I did an estimation of it myself;


Not perfect, but...it's just for fun.
You've brought up an incredibly good point regarding my temperature system. A warm electric type would scientifically mean that its electrons are moving very quickly (most electric Pokemon would be warm regardless - Rotom being one of the only cold ones since it is ghost). However, an ice Pokemon - being a cold type - would be electronically opposite - revealing that its "electrons" would be slowed down (this is directly related to temperature - as it is regulated by the speed that electrons and particles are moving throughout an object). Generally this would mean that solid forms are more aligned with "cold", while gaseous forms are aligned with "warm", and furthermore, liquid being the median between the two at "normal" temperature (or according to my temperature system: high, neutral, and low). So, if a highly-electronic Pokemon (usually Fire, Electric, Psychic, or Poison) were to attack a lowly-electronic Pokemon (Ice, Ghost, Dark, Steel) and in your case, Electronic vs. Ice, then the electric Pokemon would actually be normally effective to the ice, because the electrons are slowed down immensely in contrast with a neutral-temperature ice Pokemon (essentially a water Pokemon). The two types - Ice and Water are probably related more so than any other two types (Ground and Rock coming in a close second). You see, when Ice melts and becomes Water, the electrons move around so much more freely, and therefore, the fast moving electricity has more room to roam. But when pitted against ice, the electrons are so closely packed and move so little, that electricity is not free to move through the electronic structure of the ice. Therefore, Electricity and Ice are not strong against, or weak against one other - as seen in the games.

I realize how closely related to real-world science my system has become. It does add for realism in the games and would change the way Pokemon function - both between each other and between them and the world itself.

You cannot imagine how glad I am to see you explain my system to another. It is still in beta form and continues to grow, so I cannot say that you were wrong in your explanation as the more I contemplate it and the more we discuss it, the more it expands and contracts. I strongly advocate your usage of it, as it not only applies to Pokemon but does in our world. I draw inspiration for it both from the games and from our science.

As for Ice Charizard. The only logical explanation as to how it may exist would be as follows. A Charizard would have to lose its Flying type in exchange for a Water type, which would essentially make it a "Steam Dragon" Pokemon. In order to lose its Flying type, it would have to evolve from a Charmeleon and during the evolution its wings do not fully develop, or instead develop into fin-like appendages. Also, this would make the Charizard a Fire-only type, so in order to acquire Water as the second type, it would have to live in a warm, aquatic environment - building up a high enough resistance to water that it actually adopts the type altogether (the warm environment being so that the Charizard is still comfortable). From there, its Fire-type would have to slowly decrease - becoming isoelectronic with its Water type (this is similar to the "Pure" Pokemon theory, where the secondary type becomes isoelectronic with the primary type, but instead, this is reversed), while simultaneously, its Water type would have to slowly decrease, becoming Ice over time. In order for this to happen, the Charizard may have to live in a very cold environment for its main Fire type to actually change. The Fire - in conjunction with Charizard being a "Dragon" Pokemon, would actually transform into the Dragon type, as Dragon is of the neutral-temperature. By this point, the Water Type would have "frozen", becoming Ice. So, the once Fire/Flying Charizard is now a Dragon/Ice Charizard. So instead of Charizard being a High/Neutral Pokemon, it has now become a Neutral/Low Pokemon (the inverse temperature).

NOTE: I'm going to add this to the 5th Generation thread, along with a visual representation. Check for the update real soon.
 

Firus

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You've brought up an incredibly good point regarding my temperature system. A warm electric type would scientifically mean that its electrons are moving very quickly (most electric Pokemon would be warm regardless - Rotom being one of the only cold ones since it is ghost). However, an ice Pokemon - being a cold type - would be electronically opposite - revealing that its "electrons" would be slowed down (this is directly related to temperature - as it is regulated by the speed that electrons and particles are moving throughout an object). Generally this would mean that solid forms are more aligned with "cold", while gaseous forms are aligned with "warm", and furthermore, liquid being the median between the two at "normal" temperature (or according to my temperature system: high, neutral, and low). So, if a highly-electronic Pokemon (usually Fire, Electric, Psychic, or Poison) were to attack a lowly-electronic Pokemon (Ice, Ghost, Dark, Steel) and in your case, Electronic vs. Ice, then the electric Pokemon would actually be normally effective to the ice, because the electrons are slowed down immensely in contrast with a neutral-temperature ice Pokemon (essentially a water Pokemon). The two types - Ice and Water are probably related more so than any other two types (Ground and Rock coming in a close second). You see, when Ice melts and becomes Water, the electrons move around so much more freely, and therefore, the fast moving electricity has more room to roam. But when pitted against ice, the electrons are so closely packed and move so little, that electricity is not free to move through the electronic structure of the ice. Therefore, Electricity and Ice are not strong against, or weak against one other - as seen in the games.

I realize how closely related to real-world science my system has become. It does add for realism in the games and would change the way Pokemon function - both between each other and between them and the world itself.

You cannot imagine how glad I am to see you explain my system to another. It is still in beta form and continues to grow, so I cannot say that you were wrong in your explanation as the more I contemplate it and the more we discuss it, the more it expands and contracts. I strongly advocate your usage of it, as it not only applies to Pokemon but does in our world. I draw inspiration for it both from the games and from our science.
Thanks for explaining it to me. I like how scientific-oriented your system is--you can back up just about everything in your system with something from science.
So does this mean that the temperature system would only affect those few types?

Eh...well, I tried to explain it.:laugh: I was kind of remembering wrong exactly what you had said about the system, so I was pretty much explaining something I invented myself. I will try to spread the word about the actual part of it that I know well.

As for Ice Charizard. The only logical explanation as to how it may exist would be as follows. A Charizard would have to lose its Flying type in exchange for a Water type, which would essentially make it a "Steam Dragon" Pokemon. In order to lose its Flying type, it would have to evolve from a Charmeleon and during the evolution its wings do not fully develop, or instead develop into fin-like appendages. Also, this would make the Charizard a Fire-only type, so in order to acquire Water as the second type, it would have to live in a warm, aquatic environment - building up a high enough resistance to water that it actually adopts the type altogether (the warm environment being so that the Charizard is still comfortable). From there, its Fire-type would have to slowly decrease - becoming isoelectronic with its Water type (this is similar to the "Pure" Pokemon theory, where the secondary type becomes isoelectronic with the primary type, but instead, this is reversed), while simultaneously, its Water type would have to slowly decrease, becoming Ice over time. In order for this to happen, the Charizard may have to live in a very cold environment for its main Fire type to actually change. The Fire - in conjunction with Charizard being a "Dragon" Pokemon, would actually transform into the Dragon type, as Dragon is of the neutral-temperature. By this point, the Water Type would have "frozen", becoming Ice. So, the once Fire/Flying Charizard is now a Dragon/Ice Charizard. So instead of Charizard being a High/Neutral Pokemon, it has now become a Neutral/Low Pokemon (the inverse temperature).

NOTE: I'm going to add this to the 5th Generation thread, along with a visual representation. Check for the update real soon.
Wow, you really know your science, don't you? I feel inferior. :laugh:
Actually, you just gave me an idea for a very roughly planned-out idea. What if there were a way to force a change in the Pokemon's type or, using your "tint" system, where the Pokemon can be slightly resistant to a certain type, a way to make that happen? Basically putting a Pokemon in a special box on the PC that is an environment, which can change the Pokemon over time, leaving them in a cave or field or a real environment to change for a while, or maybe there could be different sections of the Daycare in which you could keep your Pokemon. (That last one would probably work the best, since you wouldn't have to change the game all that much, and there would be a penalty to do so) Just a quick idea.

I'll check right now for the update--I look forward to seeing the visual representation as well. :)
 

Spire

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Actually, you just gave me an idea for a very roughly planned-out idea. What if there were a way to force a change in the Pokemon's type or, using your "tint" system, where the Pokemon can be slightly resistant to a certain type, a way to make that happen? Basically putting a Pokemon in a special box on the PC that is an environment, which can change the Pokemon over time, leaving them in a cave or field or a real environment to change for a while, or maybe there could be different sections of the Daycare in which you could keep your Pokemon. (That last one would probably work the best, since you wouldn't have to change the game all that much, and there would be a penalty to do so) Just a quick idea.
BRAVO! That is a perfect idea! I'll incorporate it into my thread under the same section with credits to you. That would be a surefire way to acquire new types with Pokemon that you already own. The Daycare would certainly be the best - but perhaps there should be a whole new place(s) for this, spread out over the different locations of the Pokemon world. They would essentially be daycares, but are much larger and you can actually go in there and interact with your loose Pokemon. All in all, this idea is yours, and I'm loving ever inch of it.
 

Firus

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BRAVO! That is a perfect idea! I'll incorporate it into my thread under the same section with credits to you. That would be a surefire way to acquire new types with Pokemon that you already own. The Daycare would certainly be the best - but perhaps there should be a whole new place(s) for this, spread out over the different locations of the Pokemon world. They would essentially be daycares, but are much larger and you can actually go in there and interact with your loose Pokemon. All in all, this idea is yours, and I'm loving ever inch of it.
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.

And yeah, I like that instead; there could be an "Altering Daycare" (bad name, but...best I can think of), maybe on its own island. The island could be massive, having a large area with each climate, and a receptionist at each one allowing you to deposit two Pokemon at a time.

Maybe by these "Altering Daycares" you could only alter resistances, tinting the Pokemon. But you can also breed in these environments, and a Pokemon bred in an environment would be different depending on the environment born in--if in a snowy, polar climate, it would be born as an Ice Type.
Also, to allow a complete change in type or a creation of a Dual-Type, there could be possibly unlockable sections that would cause those changes. Obviously, there would be quite a few...so I have no clue how it would be able to occur, but that's just a concept. Again, same concept, except I'm not sure about the resistances. Perhaps there could be dual-resistances as well?

In these environments, you could, as you said, interact with your Pokemon--perhaps you could press A (or whichever button is the "talk" button) to view the Pokemon and see a gauge or something, indicating how affected the Pokemon has been. There's an idea--perhaps it can only receive a certain level of resistance, and only two different types--but you could even it out how you wish, adding more of a resistance to a certain type which would be more advantageous to be resistant to. Obviously, the longer you leave a Pokemon in the environment, the more resistant they become. In a dual-type environment, the levels would remain completely equal to each other.

Well, it's sort of mine, but I wouldn't have anything without your initial ideas. Again, though, I'm glad you like it. :)
 

Spire

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Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.

And yeah, I like that instead; there could be an "Altering Daycare" (bad name, but...best I can think of), maybe on its own island. The island could be massive, having a large area with each climate, and a receptionist at each one allowing you to deposit two Pokemon at a time.

Maybe by these "Altering Daycares" you could only alter resistances, tinting the Pokemon. But you can also breed in these environments, and a Pokemon bred in an environment would be different depending on the environment born in--if in a snowy, polar climate, it would be born as an Ice Type.
Also, to allow a complete change in type or a creation of a Dual-Type, there could be possibly unlockable sections that would cause those changes. Obviously, there would be quite a few...so I have no clue how it would be able to occur, but that's just a concept. Again, same concept, except I'm not sure about the resistances. Perhaps there could be dual-resistances as well?

In these environments, you could, as you said, interact with your Pokemon--perhaps you could press A (or whichever button is the "talk" button) to view the Pokemon and see a gauge or something, indicating how affected the Pokemon has been. There's an idea--perhaps it can only receive a certain level of resistance, and only two different types--but you could even it out how you wish, adding more of a resistance to a certain type which would be more advantageous to be resistant to. Obviously, the longer you leave a Pokemon in the environment, the more resistant they become. In a dual-type environment, the levels would remain completely equal to each other.

Well, it's sort of mine, but I wouldn't have anything without your initial ideas. Again, though, I'm glad you like it. :)
As for the actual types of the Pokemon changing, that would probably take a very long time to happen - whereas the temperature would have to change before hand (the types changing being milestones on the temperature change).

There's going to be a fee for leaving your Pokemon there - one larger than the daycare fee. Also, to make sure that you actually interact and take care of your Pokemon while it is in this place, you have to visit if every so often so that it retains the feelings that it has for you. As it slowly changes over time, its emotions may even change (different emotions trigger different temperature-related states - both hot and cold) so you better make sure that it consistently knows you. The consequence of not visiting the Pokemon would be that when you return, it may strongly dislike you, and while it may return to its Pokeball, it may slack off in battle and not take orders from you until you raise its happiness level back up. If worst comes to worst, it may even battle you on the spot, where you would have to recapture your Pokemon. Defeating it in battle would not 'erase' it from the game, but instead would allow you to recapture it any way, but its emotion gauges would be much lower, and it will have feinted. At this point, you would pretty much have to re-bond with your Pokemon.
 

Firus

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As for the actual types of the Pokemon changing, that would probably take a very long time to happen - whereas the temperature would have to change before hand (the types changing being milestones on the temperature change).

There's going to be a fee for leaving your Pokemon there - one larger than the daycare fee. Also, to make sure that you actually interact and take care of your Pokemon while it is in this place, you have to visit if every so often so that it retains the feelings that it has for you. As it slowly changes over time, its emotions may even change (different emotions trigger different temperature-related states - both hot and cold) so you better make sure that it consistently knows you. The consequence of not visiting the Pokemon would be that when you return, it may strongly dislike you, and while it may return to its Pokeball, it may slack off in battle and not take orders from you until you raise its happiness level back up. If worst comes to worst, it may even battle you on the spot, where you would have to recapture your Pokemon. Defeating it in battle would not 'erase' it from the game, but instead would allow you to recapture it any way, but its emotion gauges would be much lower, and it will have feinted. At this point, you would pretty much have to re-bond with your Pokemon.
Yeah, that's a good idea. We'd want something so powerful to be very restricting in the sense that you can't toss a Pokemon in there every day and magically have them turn. The cost should go up (by at least 5x), with the same system as the old daycare; the more the Pokemon changes from the environment, the more it costs. Also, the requirement to play and interact with it is good. That way, it requires responsibility, so, once again, you can't throw a Pokemon in there and have a miracle happen.

Also, I think that the Pokemon's happiness meter should determine how well it is affected by the environment. For example, if you put in a Pokemon that hates you, the maximum amount it can change would be cut by half. Not interacting with your Pokemon can make it go down, and putting in a Pokemon that already dislikes you would start out lower.

Just a thought.
 

Bowser King

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Yeah, that's a good idea. We'd want something so powerful to be very restricting in the sense that you can't toss a Pokemon in there every day and magically have them turn. The cost should go up (by at least 5x), with the same system as the old daycare; the more the Pokemon changes from the environment, the more it costs. Also, the requirement to play and interact with it is good. That way, it requires responsibility, so, once again, you can't throw a Pokemon in there and have a miracle happen.

Also, I think that the Pokemon's happiness meter should determine how well it is affected by the environment. For example, if you put in a Pokemon that hates you, the maximum amount it can change would be cut by half. Not interacting with your Pokemon can make it go down, and putting in a Pokemon that already dislikes you would start out lower.

Just a thought.

Thats a good idea. Friendship should affect more then just evolution for certain pokemon. Mabye for surf pokemon they would surf faster and more stuff.
 

Firus

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Thats a good idea. Friendship should affect more then just evolution for certain pokemon. Mabye for surf pokemon they would surf faster and more stuff.
Yeah, right after Spire brought up the happiness portion of it, I realized...Happiness really doesn't affect gameplay that much. If you could abuse your Pokemon, you could do that and it still wouldn't matter...in every aspect of the game, there should be either a negative or positive for your Pokemon not liking you or liking you, respectively.
 

Spire

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I've begun to add your concept to my 5th Generation thread, Firus, with credits to you.
 

PhillipthaGoober

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The 4th gen I think is just bad. I found the starter pokemon stupid. There are too many not needed legendaries. The magneton, lickitung, electabuzz, magmar, and tangela were the stupidest pokemon ever.
 

MajinNecro69

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Ironically, I find Tangela, Dusclops and Piloswine had fugly evos, but their stats were AMAZING :D

Tangrowth and Piloswine are amazing physical sweepers and Dusknoir is a great tank that resists Rapid Spin...

But yeah, 4th was pretty bad Pokemon wise. Bidoof = UGLY. I think the problem was that there weren't enough "regular" catching Pokemon, and we ended up getting nothing but Geodudes, Zubats, Ponytas, Bidoofs and Buizels. Most of the new Pokemon are evos or legends, and in 5th gen, GameFREAK should make a slew of new catchable Pokemon. At least 75% of the 5th Region dex should be catchable Pokemon for more variety.

But, there were WAYYYY too many legendaries. They already played the creator of Pokemon...so what's left legendary wise???
 

Hanai

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I quite like some of the sinnod mon, Starraptor,Rhyperior

Frolass looks cool and is good at spiking and stopping rapid spin if she holds a focus sash tp keep her around for a turn.
 

zrky

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... Too many legendaries.

Many of the new Pokemon are really sucky ideas. Like, Bidoof? WTH?
i agree woth the too many legendaries, but there has to be a ****** pokemon like bidoof (zigzagoon sucked also) my fovorites were the starters, those looked pretty cool
 

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Of course there is always a ****** Pokemon, but Bidoof was only an example. Many of the new Pokemon (many, I did not say all; Garchomp FTW) look like they were regurgitated by a stray cat.
 

Ban3

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i love spires idea, but i think that pokemon should be a wifi game. in the begining, its like WoW, u create ur custom char, u choose a side, team rocket, or goody two shoes pokemon trainer. then u spawn in ur base. the mods of the pkmn world are pkmn rangers O.o. lol and each team has there own starting pokemon and missions. when u walk around, u see every other pperson, maybe ghostish because then u can walk through them, so it wont be that crowded. and the legendaries cannot be captured and they are infact unigue not this crap that ur rayquaza fights another one -_-, that would balence that out. the pokemon league now requires stratgies, because when u fight them, u are fighting either (A.) mods or (b) other people. that would be a kickass game and yeah it would be runescapeish or WoWish
 

Bowser King

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Ban3 your idea wouldnt work to well as not everyone has wifi. Nintendo wouldnt want to lose potential buyers as there USB is terrible.
 

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they are losing originality it seems. the first gen is the best. my favorite games are silver/gold/crystal . the originals are good too but silver/gold/crystal improved upon it so much. ruby/sapphire/emerald are pretty good too. I am hoping they will remake silver/gold in the future.
 
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