Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[Sensai]

Adi: Good points. Good intelligent discussion, even in the midst of -

Red Darkstar Kirby: Yes, there is something about this thread that draws in 'the scrubs'. Mainly the fact that the title of said thread is 'Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking.' I don't think that either one of us expects them to read from page 1 to page 192, so it's unfair to assume that they'll know that we're completely off topic. I do think they should read the page that they're posting on to make sure that they're on topic with what's actually being discussed, but we can't all be as intelligent as I want. For example, intentionally trying to start a flame war for absolutely no reason...not intelligent, in my eyes.

He shouldn't die for thinking differently from you. He's not acting arrogant or conceited, so there's no reason for him to 'get over himself.' You, on the other hand, are acting like you're elite just because you happen to hold the view that the majority holds. Stop it. Get over yourself. Don't die, though...don't want you to die. I still like you, heh.

-------

Feels good to rant after seeing that our update for today was a ****in' banana peel.

 

[Red Exodus]

Actually Sensai, for anyone on the default 10 posts per page like me, it's 289 pages.

I didn't read the page before this so I'll go back and then edit.

@bout music: I don't like that song and I don't like music updates.

@bout WDing: We might not need it now, other techniques will show up and replace it. Maybe old ones will be altered [see: Z-cancelling] to the point where they cover all of WDing's good points. Of course, the odds of any of that happening is low but I'd rather not see WDing go but I'm curious to see something new at the same time.

@bout ZSS: She should be separate. I'm sure Zelda and Shiek players are angry they don't have a down B to add to their arsenal and replacing a move on Samus would be devastating, no matter which one they use. Trust me, I main Samus and bombs are far more important then they seem, even aside from bomb-jumping.

Using a final smash for a transformation would be the biggest failure, since you can only use it once, there's not guarantee you'll get it at the beginning [so you play as ZSS the whole match] and if final smashes are off ZSS players are screwed, if Samus players accidentally final smash they're screwed, etc etc etc. I was going to say something else but it left my mind. Oh well

 

[Mr.GAW]

If you think about it RE, there really isn't ANYTHING that could replace the wavedash in it's entirety. Sure, there could be a quick dodge or whatever we've seen in the trailers, and maybe we could now roll onto the edge.

But the fact of the matter is, there won't be anything that allows you to space, move, edgehog, and mindgame while being able to attack during it if we don't have the WD. I mean, the wavedash is just too precise, I can't imagine any other "advance technique" doing what wavedashing does without well... being an airdogde into the ground at an angle.

Even if there was a wavedash button, it wouldn't be the same, because everybody would just spam it all over the place. I feel like only those dedicated enough to learn how to wavedash and use it effectivley should be given that advantage.

About ZSS, I agree she should be seperate, but I thought Sakurai made it pretty clear on the old Dojo that she wasn't "a pure character addition".

Oh, and that OoT Remix is the ****, how can you not like it? Did you PLAY OoT?

 

[HideousBeing]

Even if there was a wavedash button, it wouldn't be the same, because everybody would just spam it all over the place. I feel like only those dedicated enough to learn how to wavedash and use it effectivley should be given that advantage.

I feel the same.

Oh, and that OoT Remix is the ****, how can you not like it? Did you PLAY OoT?

Seriously, that is the greatest music released for the game yet. I'm personally kind of curious to hear what the music will be like for the Delfino Plaza stage.


I love today's update though. It seems if you hit the banana peel, you will just suffer some stun on the ground that will make you vulnerable to punishment. Classic idea Sakurai!

 

[~rh]

^ fsmash heaven :D

 

[HideousBeing]

^Perhaps. It really depends on how long the stun lasts- but you're prolly right.

 

[RDK]

Red Darkstar Kirby: Yes, there is something about this thread that draws in 'the scrubs'. Mainly the fact that the title of said thread is 'Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking.' I don't think that either one of us expects them to read from page 1 to page 192, so it's unfair to assume that they'll know that we're completely off topic. I do think they should read the page that they're posting on to make sure that they're on topic with what's actually being discussed, but we can't all be as intelligent as I want. For example, intentionally trying to start a flame war for absolutely no reason...not intelligent, in my eyes.

He shouldn't die for thinking differently from you. He's not acting arrogant or conceited, so there's no reason for him to 'get over himself.' You, on the other hand, are acting like you're elite just because you happen to hold the view that the majority holds. Stop it. Get over yourself. Don't die, though...don't want you to die. I still like you, heh.

Yikes! Sorry, Sensai, about all that--I already got called out by Smooth Criminal earlier, so I'm straight. Just stews me up when I see a one-line post somewhere from some guy who totally disregarded the rest of the thread to make some non-relevant statement.

Feels good to rant after seeing that our update for today was a ****in' banana peel.

Lol, I know. I opened the page, all salivating, and saw the banana, and was like WTF SAKURAI?!?! Where's Captain Falcon/Ganondorf/Falco/etc.

 

[BigRick]

If you think about it RE, there really isn't ANYTHING that could replace the wavedash in it's entirety. Sure, there could be a quick dodge or whatever we've seen in the trailers, and maybe we could now roll onto the edge.

But the fact of the matter is, there won't be anything that allows you to space, move, edgehog, and mindgame while being able to attack during it if we don't have the WD. I mean, the wavedash is just too precise, I can't imagine any other "advance technique" doing what wavedashing does without well... being an airdogde into the ground at an angle.

Even if there was a wavedash button, it wouldn't be the same, because everybody would just spam it all over the place. I feel like only those dedicated enough to learn how to wavedash and use it effectivley should be given that advantage.

About ZSS, I agree she should be seperate, but I thought Sakurai made it pretty clear on the old Dojo that she wasn't "a pure character addition".

Oh, and that OoT Remix is the ****, how can you not like it? Did you PLAY OoT?

One, I really doubt that WDing will be removed...

Two, things that can replace a WD:

spacing: pivoting, dash-cancelled attacks
movement: Walk, run, whatever...
dodging: roll, spotdodge, air dodge
edgehog: short hop with pivoted special (faster than WDing in many when ur back isn't turned to the ledge)

 

[RDK]

Even if there was a wavedash button, it wouldn't be the same, because everybody would just spam it all over the place. I feel like only those dedicated enough to learn how to wavedash and use it effectivley should be given that advantage.

Agree with all the above.

Making a button specifically for the Wavedash technique would just be cheapening it, and screwing everyone over who spent hours of practice perfecting and utilizing it...

They didn't make a special button for the Hadouken or Shoryuuken in any of the SF games--you had to do those idiotic button combos in order to perform them, and remembering/performing them were twice as hard as Wavedashing....

So NO for the WD button. Let the people who don't already know about it have to work for it. I'm not being hard on people who don't know how to do it--it's just that the level of practicing required in order to Wavedash competitively/effectively will make them better players for it.

 

[Red Exodus]

If you think about it RE, there really isn't ANYTHING that could replace the wavedash in it's entirety. Sure, there could be a quick dodge or whatever we've seen in the trailers, and maybe we could now roll onto the edge.

But the fact of the matter is, there won't be anything that allows you to space, move, edgehog, and mindgame while being able to attack during it if we don't have the WD. I mean, the wavedash is just too precise, I can't imagine any other "advance technique" doing what wavedashing does without well... being an airdogde into the ground at an angle.

Even if there was a wavedash button, it wouldn't be the same, because everybody would just spam it all over the place. I feel like only those dedicated enough to learn how to wavedash and use it effectivley should be given that advantage.

I guess you're right, now that I think about it. I just hope Sakurai keeps spacing as an important factor in skill and gives it techniques accordingly [rolling, running, dashing, walking, spot dodging, WDing all included, perhaps some new ones?] so that spacing doesn't just become a matter of walking and standing a certain distance away from the opponent.

I think it'd be foolish for Sakurai to make a WDing button. I don't really care if he puts it in the manual or not, but a button would just defeat the whole purpose of learning the technique.

Oh, and that OoT Remix is the ****, how can you not like it? Did you PLAY OoT?

Nope, the only Zelda games I ever played were for GBC [I don't remember the title, I think it had something to do with a dream] or SNES [LTTP]

 

[AxemRed]

I loved Kirby's expression after slipping on the banana peel.

...and that's actually all I can think of right now. Gotta finish Hector's normal mode so I can unlock his hard mode
-_-

Oh and Exodus, you should play OOT when you get a chance. Then you'll at least understand why we love the song, even if you still don't like it at that point.

 

[Sensai]

Man....go play OoT right now. Seriously. Like, if you need the 10 dollars to download it I will ****in' send you that ****.

It's cool Darkstar. Don't worry about it. <3<3.

GAW, I have to disagree a bit (gasp!). Here's the part that I conflict with:

Even if there was a wavedash button, it wouldn't be the same, because everybody would just spam it all over the place. I feel like only those dedicated enough to learn how to wavedash and use it effectivley should be given that advantage.

If there's a WD button, then that just means it's more accessible. It has no impact on whether or not it will be used correctly or incorrectly. I mean, look at anyone when they first learn to WD. They either spam the hell outta it, incorrectly, or don't use it at all.

So, nothing would be different if there were a button for it save the fact that there'd be a button for it and EVERYONE would encounter it. And just 'cause it's a WD doesn't mean it's not predictable. If it truly did become integrated so that everyone knew it/used it, it'd become much more predictable for people who don't know how to play. Like rolling, if you will.

 

[Krytha]

I have played OoT, and the remix is not that great. I've said it elsewhere, but they've combined many different songs from varying portions of the game with different moods and just crushed them into a fight-o combination. So no, I have no idea why you "love" the song, because it doesn't bring me any nostalgia, so much as awe that they could take so many great songs and force them into a format that removes all emotional impact (and rhythm in certain cases).

 

[Sensai]

^^^^

How are you listening to it? It just sounds so farkin' epic to me...no, it's not the original, preserved form of the song and yes, they arranged them differently. It's still good, though.

-----

Also, I hate to ask this, but does anyone have a Diablo II CD-Key that they're not using? I don't wanna play online, but I can't install it without a key...I implore you to send me a PM. Puh-leaze.

 

[Devastlian]

Ya and playing OoT sets you up nicely for better Zeldas like MM and WW.

 

[Mr.GAW]

One, I really doubt that WDing will be removed...

Two, things that can replace a WD:

spacing: pivoting, dash-cancelled attacks
movement: Walk, run, whatever...
dodging: roll, spotdodge, air dodge
edgehog: short hop with pivoted special (faster than WDing in many when ur back isn't turned to the ledge)

I don't really think the WD is going to be removed either, but that's irrelevant.

Those things that you listed don't accomplish the objective (spacing, movement, dodging, and edghogging) nearly as well as wavedashing. Plus, the WD has more uses than those four you listed, and you can't find a good thing to replace EVERY ONE.

Nope, the only Zelda games I ever played were for GBC [I don't remember the title, I think it had something to do with a dream] or SNES [LTTP]

Dude, play it. NAO!

GAW, I have to disagree a bit (gasp!). Here's the part that I conflict with:If there's a WD button, then that just means it's more accessible. It has no impact on whether or not it will be used correctly or incorrectly. I mean, look at anyone when they first learn to WD. They either spam the hell outta it, incorrectly, or don't use it at all.

So, nothing would be different if there were a button for it save the fact that there'd be a button for it and EVERYONE would encounter it. And just 'cause it's a WD doesn't mean it's not predictable. If it truly did become integrated so that everyone knew it/used it, it'd become much more predictable for people who don't know how to play. Like rolling, if you will.

Actually I was thinking that exact thing right after I posted it, but I'm like "eh, nobody's gonna catch it- don't worry GAW"; but anyways, you're right.

I mean it really isn't knowing the motion that gives you the advantage, but understanding why it works and putting it to good use.

Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[SuperLinkBrothers]

Mwaa ha ha ha ha!!!!
Lolololololololol!!!

Super...Ha Ha...Smash Brothers Br-Br-Br-, Bwaa Ha Ha...Brawl Sucking, Lololololol!!!

Okay, I'm done, but seriosley, Brawl sucking???

 

[Alphalink]

wavedash was never a "feature" in melee, it was a glitch. so chances are high it'll be debugged

 

[ToyzSoldier]

Woah, since when did this topic... actually go on-topic. I have no doubt brawl will not suck, whether for competitive play or for nubs screwing around. What is scaring me though is that, from the looks of it, most of the veteran characters we've seen so far have barely changed their moves. I have this ominous feeling that Mario will still be KO ******** and Kirby and Pikachu still stuck in low teir. It doesn't look like any of the old chracters have changed much aside from weight maybe. But I hope looks are decieving, or i'll be pretty mad that Bowser is still unplayable. The future is looking bleak for those veteran low tiers.. Although Link looks like he'll go up a few with more range and weight. Hope the team actually made some significant changes to some of the more sucky characters.

 

[Adi]

wavedash was never a "feature" in melee, it was a glitch. so chances are high it'll be debugged

Just like they did for all the N64 Advanced Techniques right? ;D

Those things that you listed don't accomplish the objective (spacing, movement, dodging, and edghogging) nearly as well as wavedashing. Plus, the WD has more uses than those four you listed, and you can't find a good thing to replace EVERY ONE.

That's looking at it from a melee player's perspective. With brawl, slight mechanical changes regarding the most basic functions of the game can have a large impact on their utility. For example take rolling. In the quote you mentioned how Wavedashing is a far more useful tool than rolling for dodging. However, the trailers show, although unconfirmed to be a roll, some type of dodge which is extremely fast and allowed the player to retaliate almost immediately. Subtle changes like this to core aspects of the game can really change the utility and necessity of wavedashing in gameplay. With that in mind let's revisit some of the uses of wavedashing and I'll provide some sample ideas with which WD can be replaced.

Dodging: Rolling (already mentioned above, a faster roll with little lag time provides almost equal oppurtunities for retaliation as wavedashing to dodge might)

Edgehog: Rolling back into the ledge results in you grabbing it (combined with a faster roll this gives it the same usefullness of wavedashing for edgehogging)

Waveshine: If shine's mechanics was reverted to that of the N64 engine there wouldn't be a need to waveshine

Movement/Spacing: This one is a tricky one and there's no real answer to it. However spacing and movement can easily be acheived by changing the mechanics of dashing a little. In fact many of the spacing techniques necessary for high level play can be acheived by people with fast dashes (like Marth), with smart placements of dash canceling and pivoting. However, this requires such insane timing and speed that wavedashing is the more natural choice. If dash techniques were made slightly more accessible and perhaps the initial moments of dash go faster than the latter end of it (think of foxtrotting I guess), then spacing needs could easily be fulfilled by it.

What is scaring me though is that, from the looks of it, most of the veteran characters we've seen so far have barely changed their moves.

Keep in mind that the actual video clips of the characters are around a year old. By now the mechanics of the moves could have drastically changed but we are unaware of it.

 

[Sensai]

It isn't on topic, heh.

Alphalink, according to that logic, it would've been removed in the PAL version. Well, maybe. It depends on how much more coding they would've had to have done.

GAW, no worries. You put the original idea out there, I just refined a certain part of it.

---

No one here is willing to help out a guy to play D2? /tear

 

[Alphalink]

It isn't on topic, heh.

Alphalink, according to that logic, it would've been removed in the PAL version. Well, maybe. It depends on how much more coding they would've had to have done.

GAW, no worries. You put the original idea out there, I just refined a certain part of it.

---

No one here is willing to help out a guy to play D2? /tear

yeah, but wavedashing was discovered like 2 years after melee was released

WD lovers might get lucky if Brawl turns out to be using a modified engine of Melee, with no modifications in physics handling and other factors creating the wavedash.

but like I said, maybe there even an intended wavedashing tech in the game

 

[Krytha]

How are you listening to it?

With my ears.

 

[AxemRed]

With my ears.

Out of curiousity...what did you think of the Melee version of Saria's Song?

And please, the last topic I want to discuss here is wavedashing. It's a moot point. Either it's in or it's out. Let's just wait until we actually know something. Chances are anything you want to say about wavedashing has already been discussed here. So...resist the temptation .

Two of the four "revealed" stages are moving stages. I wonder if this is a new trend...Seems like Sakurai wants less and less "static" stages...which is fine with me. Except for the fact that I'll be distracted by everything for the first few weeks .

 

[Krytha]

Out of curiousity...what did you think of the Melee version of Saria's Song?

It was fine. The arrangement strayed to a lighter tone with a different selection of instruments, but didn't change the melody or rhythm in any way. As for it affecting the mood of the game, there honestly is none. I spend most of my time trying to drown Tingle when I'm not knocking people into the ridiculous platform on Termina.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Y34HDUD3!!! leveled up to Apprentice! Learns Dark Matter!!

That OoT Medley was good alright. But last update was a little on the disappointing side...
I'm hoping for a Character Bio, and hopefully it will come with half its moveset, like it happened with pit.

2 more hours to go!

 

[WhiteZER0]

Music sounds like it's gonna be awesome this time around Looking forward to it, that's for sure.

I could care less about WaveDashing. Bloody... what is it with you people and WaveDashing. (i'd like to know, is Dylan the only one planning on boycotting Brawl if it doesn't have WaveDashing?) It's one little glitch (and yes, you can very well tell it was a glitch) that will probably be debugged in Brawl. So what? You're depriving yourself of something that has the potential to be even greater than Melee (and ya, Melee wasn't, repeat: WASN'T perfect. To many clones, among other things. Addiciting as it is, it isn't perfect ).

And nobody blood well better not start flaming me for saying that. I'm stating my opinion, that's all. And for those of you have a problems with noobs 'screwing around', I don't see much of a problem with making use of everything that the developers made for the game. It's for fun. You're not gonna be any more of a man (a woman in some cases... neither in rarer ones XD) by beating someone. So take a chill pill and have some bloody fun XD And don't start flaming me for my noobishness either. Hate it when people flame, makes me want to hurt them, y'know *wink* ;P

 

[psicicle]

It is not one little glitch, it is a part of the coding that comprises a large part of a lot of people's game.

Back up why you think that it will probably be debugged in brawl. Experience tells us that it will most likely stay, because of Z-cancelling's reappearance in melee. Reasoning also tells us that it will stay because it added depth. So far, all signs point to its reappearance in brawl.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

*flames random n00b*

Well, I'm not gonna start again with the "glitch or not a glitch" crap, cuz it's getting annoying.
Psicicle, it's your turn to take out the trash.
:O

 

[NES n00b]

Forget updates! I am waiting for E3 which is not that long of wait anymore.

I am also waiting for new videos of me to be uploaded(yes I, meaning 3GOD, recorded). I can't wait to update the video thread wtih these videos for more advice. The advice given has helped me with my Falcon. Yay improvement. ^_^

On a completely different subject, Sensai, what Smash stuff are you going to attend. I want to play you again. We really did not play against each other enough.

 

[Sensai]

^^^

You're right, and you were **** good. I enjoyed our matches. I dunno when I'm attending anything else, though.../sigh

Krytha: Good answer. :-D I can always respect a fellow smart-***.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

NES n00b, I'm on your tail. Only 37 posts to go!!! Maybe.

And the E3 is really close, alright. Trailers FTW.

D@mn, I wish someday I could Smash with y'all.

And no, no forgetting updates!!!

 

[DonkeySmasher]

actually i think that the lylat cruise isn't moving it simply changes background like finald

 

[Zabutur]

yeah--and battlefield.
I really hope when Sak said there'd be a lot of changing stages that he meant changing backgrounds as opposed to changing platforms.
moving backgrounds=cool
moving stages=gay (except Big Blue)

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Not so bad of an update. Unexpected? Yes.

 

[Devastlian]

Custom Captain Falcon layout:

X: Jump
Control stick: Move
C-Stick: Smashes and aerial tilts
A, B, Y, L, R, Z, Control Pad: Taunt

Roffle roffle roffle.

 

[Red Exodus]

When my friends make a name I'll just wait till they leave, change up everything to the most retardedessttest lay-out possible and play them like I don't know what's going ^.^

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

NES n00b,Sensai.Come to OC3.

Where the real *****'s be at.

Kidding,it would be rather expensive considering you would need to get out here via plane.

I really doubt that Brawl is going to suck,especially now that it has custom control options.I predict that there will be a wide plethora of professional players who play with a unique style.(Trust me,you thought the claw was weird,just wait)

 

[AxemRed]

NES n00b,Sensai.Come to OC3.

Where the real *****'s be at.

Kidding,it would be rather expensive considering you would need to get out here via plane.

I really doubt that Brawl is going to suck,especially now that it has custom control options.I predict that there will be a wide plethora of professional players who play with a unique style.(Trust me,you thought the claw was weird,just wait)

Custom control options are amazing, but I wonder how far it extends. Will you, for instance, be able to turn off up-tapping for jumping? I'm definitely excited though.

"The character selection screen is still a secret!"

Curses.

Actually we should be thankful, this week has been the best yet for updates...maybe it's a sign that we'll see more at E3...how long? Two weeks or so?

 

[HideousBeing]

Oh my gosh, Sakurai is a genius. This is going to make modded controllers online a waste of time. I can't imagine how I would change the configuration... I'll have to prepare for that one.

What I really hope is that you can't simplify a combination of buttons by assigning them to a single button. (ie. press X to WD or Y to do your UpB recovery)