Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[Wolfblade]

Not if it's Costco, son.

And Dylan, if you do that I will be sorely disappointed in you for not looking at the bigger picture.

Really, Costco will? Alright cool.

Yeah Dylan, you can't return it at least until we have a match online pal. Get it, fight me and then return it if you want

 

[Gamepro]

If some of you people want the same **** game you've played before with no change, then continue playing Melee after Brawl is out and forget Brawl exists. Nobody is stopping you, but it will prevent you from trying to ruin a brand new game by trying to have everything stay the same. You honestly, I mean really honestly, think more than 50% will return Brawl and go back to Melee if it doesn't have WDing? That's the dumbest comment I've heard in soooo long. Thank you for making me laugh.

SSB to SSBM was a huge change, and I expect SSBM to SSBB to be an equal amount or even more change. I want a new and better game, I want progression, not the same game from 6 years ago. But we always get these extremely vocal people who refuse to accept progression and threaten to boycott the game, return it etc. if anything changes. This happens every single freaking time before a big sequel comes out. And guess what? The new and improved game comes out, change and progression logically happened, certain vocal people are outraged for about a week, then everyone gets used to and accepts the change, and eventually forget what the big deal was. This happened from SSB to SSBM, it will happen for SSBM to SSBB, and will continue to happen until people stop being so close minded and irrational.

Believe me, the same threats were made from SSB to SSBM if anything changed other than new characters and stages and stuff. Then change happened. Did most people return their copies of SSBM and SSB is now the main game played? LOL. I feel like taking a ton of quotes from this topic and bringing them back a few months after Brawl comes out for a huge laugh.

 

[Zephyr]

If some of you people want the same **** game you've played before with no change, then continue playing Melee after Brawl is out and forget Brawl exists. Nobody is stopping you, but it will prevent you from trying to ruin a brand new game by trying to have everything stay the same. You honestly, I mean really honestly, think more than 50% will return Brawl and go back to Melee if it doesn't have WDing? That's the dumbest comment I've heard in soooo long. Thank you for making me laugh.

SSB to SSBM was a huge change, and I expect SSBM to SSBB to be an equal amount or even more change. I want a new and better game, I want progression, not the same game from 6 years ago. But we always get these extremely vocal people who refuse to accept progression and threaten to boycott the game, return it etc. if anything changes. This happens every single freaking time before a big sequel comes out. And guess what? The new and improved game comes out, change and progression logically happened, certain vocal people are outraged for about a week, then everyone gets used to and accepts the change, and eventually forget what the big deal was. This happened from SSB to SSBM, it will happen for SSBM to SSBB, and will continue to happen until people stop being so close minded and irrational.

Believe me, the same threats were made from SSB to SSBM if anything changed other than new characters and stages and stuff. Then change happened. Did most people return their copies of SSBM and SSB is now the main game played? LOL. I feel like taking a ton of quotes from this topic and bringing them back a few months after Brawl comes out for a huge laugh.

This is exactly how I feel. Can't you see the logic of this, Dylan?

 

[Falco&Victory]

Gamepro, I concur.
I used to want Falco to stay with the same moves, because i love him, but what would happen?
Everyone would want the same.
I don't care If Falco leaves anymore, even if he isn't replaced with Wolf, because truthfully, we will all find a new character, we will all stop caring that our character is missing, and we will all go on. Heck, Fox looks so tight I sometimes don't care wether or not anyone else gets in.
I recognize people's need to discuss what they can't control, but don't flame people about new ideas, let Brawl come and be what it will be.

ps: am i comma happy?

 

[Wolfblade]

Gamepro, and Falco&Victory, I can't remember if both of you have bin in this thread yet or not, but I have two things to say:

If you've bin reading and responding to this thread up till now: Good posts.

If these are your first posts so far: Welcome cause they were excellent.

Gamepro in particular, you are saying what many of us are thinking. Change is good. sacrifices will be made (i.e. certain techs/ character moves/ characters), but these sacrifices will assure that Brawl will surpass both SSB and SSBM.

Even for the people who will prefer Melee, Brawl will certainly gain a lot of attention and will, in my humble opinion, surpass Melee in polularity (maby not right away, but in the following months). This will not just be amung "noobs" but also in the competitive scene. The game will succeed in making almost everyone happy... less you are a Pichu fan. Thats right Pichu, Lucario is gonna boot yer arse outa the stadium!... oh sorry... was that last part off topic?

 

[Metà]

Dylan, you are incredibly arrogant. You think that you're better than everyone who disagrees with you, and that they are all scrubs. If I ever meet you, I want a money match; I can prove that someone can disagree with almost everything you say and beat you.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Brawl won't suck unless they dumb it down like hell. The only thing that really matters in the transition from Melee to Brawl is that they keep some of the little things that seperate the skilless from the pros. Thing like L Cancel and Short Hop must live. Keeping the current techs isn't so important, so wavedash can burn, but having techs in the game is. Without skill, the competitive community will suffer. There's no excuse not to have skillful portions of the game, since it in no way impedes the "wider audience" appeal. The reason is the skill isn't necessary. It's not like memorizing combos in Mortal Kombat, it's improving upon the short moveset provided to you by using it in new ways, with techs that make it possible.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dylan, you are incredibly arrogant. You think that you're better than everyone who disagrees with you, and that they are all scrubs. If I ever meet you, I want a money match; I can prove that someone can disagree with almost everything you say and beat you.

Theres no possible way you could disagree with everything I say, and beat me in a money match. That would mean that you wouldnt L cancel, Shffl, use mindgames, would have items on, and wed be playing big-blue. Id still wipe the floor with you.

So I seriously doubt you disagree with everything I say, or even most of it. And if you did, then I don't see how you could pose a threat as my opinions are pretty much shared by the elite players of this game.

Also, I don't think I'm better than people who disagree with me 100% of the time, depends on the argument. If the argument is

me : Wavedashing has many uses in mindgames and spacing

scrub : no it duznt, its a glitch u have no skill

Then the scrub is wrong. I'm better than him so hell yeah I'm gonna talk down to him, because it is a fact that I am better than him.

Anyhow, you could bring it on for all I care, I won the last money match I played best of 3 vs a semi decent doc. If you take me for some kind of newbie who just learned how to wavedash and went to 1 bi-weekly and thinks it gives him reason to act arrogant, you're in for a big suprise, trust me.

What opinions of mine don't you agree with? Because if you are a good enough smash player to beat me (no easy task) than there's no chance of you being a noob, so you would obviously incoprorate wavedashing, Shffling and the like into your mindgames.

I just dont get what you're saying really, or how you seem to think that I base my superiority towards another player solely on his ''opinions'' I actually base it on how he plays the game, either he plays the correct way, or the scrub way. Theres no middle ground.

I love the people who come in here without reading the majority of my posts then thinking they know my opinions, its great.

The best one from the previous page is that I ''dont want the game to change'' I never mentioned that anywhere.

I want the game to be COMPLETLY CHANGED. can you get that through your thick skulls? Good

I want movesets changed, characters messed around with, I dont want a pro falco player picking up brawl, and shling to waveshine dair combos as soon as he starts playing, I hope all the characters are changed, movesets and everything keeping the basics where neccessary (Like in captain falcons case, I dont see much that could be changed about his moveset, well have to see)

Not only that, but I also want the character weights changed around, same with tractions. Maybe this time around Luigi will have a crap wavedash due to traction and link will have an awesome one?

what I DO NOT WANT. Is THE REMOVAL OF TECH SKILLS. If they remove any of the following

Teching
L canceling
Wavelanding
Wavedashing
Fast Falling
Short Hopping
Air dodging

(Among various other complicated ones I wont go into right now)

I will most likely not compete in super smash brothers brawl. And If I am not competing I see no point in playing the game, and I will continue to hone my skills in melee.


@ paranoid android :

VERY well put post. Although I dont much agree on taking wavedashing out (It's pretty darn essential to the game if you ask me) it *could* be replaced by other techs, although I highly doubt it.

I really wanna see more techs, without removing what we already had. Those of you that keep spouting your

WELL DA GAME CHANGED A LOT FROM SSB64 2 MELEE SO BRAWL MUST CHANGE 2

bull****, remember : Melee didn't remove any of the techs that were in SSB. They didnt take out cancelling, short hopping, DI, teching, or any of that. You can get technical and say they took out taunt cancelling but meh, what can you do.

Thats it boys, I want this game to be MORE technical than melee if possible, I want things added, and I want things changed, and I couldnt care less how they do it because i want to be suprised.

But I do not see the need to remove ANY of the tech skills. Not one.

 

[Overswarm]

Theres no possible way you could disagree with everything I say, and beat me in a money match. That would mean that you wouldnt L cancel, Shffl, use mindgames, would have items on, and wed be playing big-blue. Id still wipe the floor with you.

So I seriously doubt you disagree with everything I say, or even most of it. And if you did, then I don't see how you could pose a threat as my opinions are pretty much shared by the elite players of this game.

Anyhow, you could bring it on for all I care, I won the last money match I played best of 3 vs a semi decent doc. If you take me for some kind of newbie who just learned how to wavedash and went to 1 bi-weekly and thinks it gives him reason to act arrogant, you're in for a big suprise, trust me.

I love the people who come in here without reading the majority of my posts then thinking they know my opinions, its great.

The best one from the previous page is that I ''dont want the game to change'' I never mentioned that anywhere.

I want the game to be COMPLETLY CHANGED. can you get that through your thick skulls? Good I want movesets changed, characters messed around with, I dont want a pro falco player picking up brawl, and shling to waveshine dair combos as soon as he starts playing, I hope all the characters are changed, movesets and everything keeping the basics where neccessary (Like in captain falcons case, I dont see much that could be changed about his moveset, well have to see)

Not only that, but I also want the character weights changed around, same with tractions. Maybe this time around Luigi will have a crap wavedash due to traction and link will have an awesome one?

what I DO NOT WANT. Is THE REMOVAL OF TECH SKILLS. If they remove any of the following

Teching
L canceling
Wavelanding
Wavedashing
Fast Falling
Short Hopping
Air dodging

(Among various other complicated ones I wont go into right now)

I will most likely not compete in super smash brothers brawl. And If I am not competing I see no point in playing the game, and I will continue to hone my skills in melee.

you are a troubled soul.

 

[Keige]

Sorry Dylan, I apologize for my last post because I thought you referring to me, not to my friend. And your posts have been get alot better. Less and less people are jumping on you now. Nice job.

 

[Razgriz]

Hahaha people love to hate Dylan Tnga. He's just a competitive spirit like me. As far as Melee to Brawl goes, yes there will be changes. Awsome techniques will be nerfed, as will certain characters. When it comes to video games, everybody is an archeophile, and I too am guilty of this to some extent. If wavedashing is striken from the game I will ***** and moan for a while. I'd get over it, but I hope it stays, because it's just one more thing that serves to widen the gap between the noob and the pro, and anything that does that is a good idea. The degree to which a game allows for the application of new skills which separate the experienced players from the novices shares a direct correlation with the fun factor of the game. L-cancelling, shorthopping, and yes, wavedashing, all provide service to this purpose.

On a related note... Do you guys think that they'll keep edge-teching? I get the impression that it wasn't intentionaly added into the game because it often requires ASDI or SDI... but the timing and forethought it mandates... The oohs and ahhs it provokes from the audience... It would be an unforgivable crime to rob the game of such a beautiful technique... even more so than to take away wavedashing.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

you are a troubled soul.

Why don't you go get mauled by a Bear? Get the hell out of my thread spammer.

Man, what I don't get is how much hate the wavedash gets around the brawl section.. Its like... one of the most important techniques in melee, 99% of amateur AND pro videos have people using wavedashes all the time... I dont get it.

Sorry Dylan, I apologize for my last post because I thought you referring to me, not to my friend. And your posts have been get alot better. Less and less people are jumping on you now. Nice job.

Well, I was being a bit snotty with you, giving you more reason than the past few pages of jerks to try to take me on had, and you didn't freak out at -all-

Respect.

 

[Zephyr]

Why don't I just disprove your point right here and now? Yesterday I went to one of San Diego's Triweeklies. Ken, Chu Dat, Manacloud and Arash were there, and I took 9th out of 80. I hardly wavedashed at all.

Wavedash is NOT NECESSARY, nor is it nearly as impactful as L-canceling or short-hopping. Brawl is going to focus on its AERIAL game, not its ground game. From that, if wavedashing IS in it will become less consequential and SHFFLing will grow in importance. If wavedashing isn't in, nothing happens because the game will focus largely on AERIALS.

You seem to be of the opinion that just because you share the same opinions as the pros do, you are at their level and no one that you haven't heard of can beat you. Think again, Guff.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, unlike you, Meta actually has a reputation on these boards, so I wouldn't be guffing it up around him either.

 

[Red Exodus]

Actually it's necessary depending on which character you play. The faster your characters roll is, the less likely you will need to WD.

With Samus, you HAVE to know how to WD or any above average player will punish you for it.

And in response to change in Brawl:

When you buy a sequel, do you expect to see a bit of the old and a bit of the new? Or do you just expect to see new [stuff] everywhere?

I expect to get a refined version of what I got last time with new features, characters, stages, movesets, techniques etc. What I don't expect is to be completely alienated by a sequel, and any company that alienates it's fanbase is a bad company.

 

[Davewashing]

I'm not completely netral on the subject, Dylan...I'm just saying that there's no such thing as a right or wrong opinion
Tournament style play isn't the "right" way to play the game, but it is not the "wrong" way either. The same goes for casual style play. People simply play the game the way they choose to.
If a player does not participate in tournaments or practice wavedashing or things like that, it does not make them a novice or bad player. They are not ALL automatically "scrubs" or "whiners".

As for Gamepro's post, aside from the...spicier parts of it, I do agree with his general statement. As great as "advanced techniques" sound, I do not think that many people (or any people, for that matter) will be returning their copy of Brawl if they are not in the game.
Smash Bros. does not begin and end with these techniques.
Melee was an excellent game, to be sure, but that does not mean that it cannot be surpassed! Considering the time, energy and care being put into the development of Smash Bros. Brawl, it has the very real potential to be a game as great as Melee, possibly even better!

If you would still refuse to play the game, that would be rather unfortunate. I understand that you are apparently a very experienced player, and you have mastered many of the "advanced techniques". However, you seem to be placing too much importance in these techniques. If they did not exist at all, would you not have faith in your own skills?
The removal of advanced techniques does not mean that the game will not be deep, or that you will not be strong. If you are a good player, you will still be able to compete and improve your skills!

And again, looking at the apparent change that was made to the rolling action, who is to say that there will not be great techniques already available? Just because they are "standard" actions does not mean you can't have an exciting fight using them!
Even if that means advanced techniques becoming standard and available to all players, that is no problem. An experienced player would be able to emerge victorious, no matter what!

Thought it is completely natural to worry about the quality of the game, do not close your mind off to the thought that Smash Bros. Brawl may be as good, or even better than Smash Bros. Melee. As 'crazy' as it might sound, it is very possible.

 

[Zephyr]

Actually it's necessary depending on which character you play. The faster your characters roll is, the less likely you will need to WD.

With Samus, you HAVE to know how to WD or any above average player will punish you for it.

Actually, that wasn't my point. I play as Fox, and wavedashing is very important to his gameplay. Do I utilize it often? No. Do I still kick ***? Yes. I'm sure that Samus can find ways around it as well.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Why don't I just disprove your point right here and now? Yesterday I went to one of San Diego's Triweeklies. Ken, Chu Dat, Manacloud and Arash were there, and I took 9th out of 80. I hardly wavedashed at all.

Wavedash is NOT NECESSARY, nor is it nearly as impactful as L-canceling or short-hopping. Brawl is going to focus on its AERIAL game, not its ground game. From that, if wavedashing IS in it will become less consequential and SHFFLing will grow in importance. If wavedashing isn't in, nothing happens because the game will focus largely on AERIALS.

You seem to be of the opinion that just because you share the same opinions as the pros do, you are at their level and no one that you haven't heard of can beat you. Think again, Guff.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, unlike you, Meta actually has a reputation on these boards, so I wouldn't be guffing it up around him either.

I agree 100% Wavedashing is nowhere near as important as short hopping, fast falling, or L canceling, or shffling. I've said that.. what.. 1 000 000 times now?

I do not, however think that wavedashing is entirely useless or indeed not an intergral part of this game.

About meta, he says he disagrees with most of the things I say, so just by logic I assume that he doesnt shffl, or l cancel, or wavedash, or play tournament rules.

He obviously does, if hes a good player and respected, so I dont see where he gets off saying he doesn't agree with most of what I say yet could still beat me. If he didn't agree with the majority of my views on melee he would lose, since that would imply he doesn't think it should be played tournament settings, involved using advanced techs.

Thing is, I'm nowhere near the tops, but Im nowhere near the bottom either, if there ever was an intermediate player its me. Garunteed Im 3 stock material for you if you placed 9th in those tri-weeklies.

You say you did it without wavedashing? Congrats, just like Aniki, if you are skilled enough at melee you dont need to spam the wavedash.

Oh wait, you didn't say that you said you ''hardly wavedashed at all'' So where's your point then? You used wavedashing, I dont care how often you used it...

Look if you think based on what you read that I spam wavedashing and wavedance around the screen and say ''look at me im so pro'' you're sadly mistaken, sometimes I rarely wavedash in a match, and when I do use it its not to be flashy its to get the spacing, the dodge, the mindgame, any of the dozens of uses the wavedash has.

So you didn't disprove my point, heck I could do a better job disproving myself with the classic argument :

ANIKI!!!! omfg!!!

doesn't wavedash very often, pwns heavily, wins tournaments. I suppose he's proof that if you're good enough at the game , even with samus you don't need to wavedash.

Thing is, most of us are not as good as you (If you really are that close to the best players in the world) or Aniki, and chances are with the wavedash we stand a lot better chances than without it.

edit : You play fox without waveshining O.o

.........

And do well?

Congrats man, you've got to have some MAD skills and luck to pull that off.

Or do you just waveshine/wavedash/pulsewalk/all that fox wavedash related tech skill less often than most fox players but still use it.

In anycase, upload a video of yourself please if you want to prove your point using your own playing. I have difficult believing you're as good as you say you are yet don't wavedash very often, Im betting you still wavedash, but less than most players which works for you, doesnt mean you don't use the wavedash though, or that it isnt important.

 

[Red Exodus]

Actually, that wasn't my point. I play as Fox, and wavedashing is very important to his gameplay. Do I utilize it often? No. Do I still kick ***? Yes. I'm sure that Samus can find ways around it as well.

Probably, but Samus' roll is slow and predictable, most people can launch their attack to hit Samus just has she finishes the roll because it's that slow. The only way I see around that is to stay in the air or make your opponent retreat.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Red : A wavedashless samus doesn't roll. Samus' roll should pretty much never, ever be used, its SOOOOO slow. Maybe here and there but if you roll around with samus wow are you going to get punished..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dcXqDNWj094

-- almost wavedash-free samus, yet some of the best ive ever seen.

 

[Zephyr]

Sorry, when I said "hardly wavedashing", I meant I didn't didn't use it in clashes. I only used it to show off when I'd killed my opponent. Just so they knew I could. XD

Did I say I was close to their skill level?

>_>

<_<

No, I just placed ninth. But I didn't utilize wavedash against my opponent. My speed takes care of that. Controlled chaos FTW. Wall of bair is too good. And I never said wavedashing was useless, but I don't believe in the illusion that it is necessary. It's just another technique. In an aerial-based game like mine, I don't really need it.

 

[Red Exodus]

Dylan: I thought that Samus was going to lose seeing as how his first stock went so fast but I guess his aerial game and edge guarding came through for him.

In general: Yeah, my Fox is more aerial that anything else, I never seem to remember myself throwing people around with Fox, I just juggle them.

 

[dizzy]

Even in the unlikely event that l-canceling, teching, wavedashing, fastfalling, short hopping, and air dodging were ALL removed or changed in some way, Brawl could still easily have the depth required for a competitive scene. Obviously, developers would have to create a bunch of new options for us to work with, and it would definitely feel different than SSBM. But that doesn't mean Brawl would automatically degrade into shallow party game. It's not as though there's only one "perfect engine" for competitive fighting games, and realistically speaking, SSBM's engine is far from perfect anyway. There's plenty of room for improvement; change could be very good thing.

If you WANT Brawl to be SSBM version 2.0 + pretty pretty bang bang + new faces and stages, more power to you. But don't be closed off to the idea of learning the intricacies of a completely new game either.

 

[Superstar]

I play Mario, and as Dylan said earlier, he practically needs the wavedash. Not as much as some other characters, but it helps so much. I like to wavedash a huge amount [not so random anymore, though, I'm getting better at when to use it]

Dylan, The only real disagreement I have with you is when you say playing with items is the scrub way. I think its actually the newbie way. The scrub is the one with mindsets, the newbie is the beginner. When you call someone a scrub, its a worse insult than newbie, and if someone who plays that way reads your post, they will most likely attack, and take it personal. Of course, I assume the main reason is because the people attacking only read the first few posts, when you were on a rampage, and are attacking you about that now.

Also, the tourney way is not the real way, its the professional way, and is the better way to show off skills. Items are to be frantic, and do not denote skill as well as tourney matches.

If wavedash is gone, I will cry the first 5 minutes, then learn the game, with its new techniques. The only real reason I want Brawl is online, my brother has grown bored, so I have to quit Smash for now.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Sorry, when I said "hardly wavedashing", I meant I didn't didn't use it in clashes. I only used it to show off when I'd killed my opponent. Just so they knew I could. XD

Did I say I was close to their skill level?

>_>

<_<

No, I just placed ninth. But I didn't utilize wavedash against my opponent. My speed takes care of that. Controlled chaos FTW. Wall of bair is too good. And I never said wavedashing was useless, but I don't believe in the illusion that it is necessary. It's just another technique. In an aerial-based game like mine, I don't really need it.

Meh, I still think waveshining, if you could incorporate it with your strong aerial game that you're talking about could improve your fox... Fox I dunno waveshine sets up so much stuff, do you use it at all? Congrats on 9/80 Pretty good man, I only placed 30 something out of like 40 players in the last tourney I went to. I was happy with my performance though, lots and lots of very strong players, my friends who I had been training with for the past few months before the tourney didnt even make it out of pools, I did and I was really happy to have done so (was my first REAL tourney with prize money and all that)

Anyway I don't consider myself that great of a smasher Im sure a lot of you could hand my *** to me, the only people I really am arrogant towards are the people that have these opinions on the game that just clearly indicate they dont know how to play

You say you don't wavedash often, but you DO explain WHY, something a lot of the posters in this thread have failed to do, aside from the usual ''Wding is a glitch'' bull**** (and no, it is not a glitch.)

As for Dizzy's post I tend to agree, I would love to see an even MORE complicated smash brothers, melee has quite a few areas that could be improved, but I dont see how removing techs could make that dream come true..

Anyhow sorry to come off as arrogant about the wavedash thing it doesn't make or break a player, but it really does have a bunch of uses, and so, so , so many people that are really good smashers use wavedashing, keyword : USE. Wavedash spam is just ********, if I dont need to wavedash or at that exact moment a better form of movement is better Im not going to wavedash.

Wavedashing is just important to me though, I really really do enjoy its many uses, expecially since Ive recently started to main mario, one of my main reasons for switching to mario was I just had a lot of comfort with his wavedash, its fast, its got great distance, but its very easy to control and space precicely with.. dunno what I would do without it.

Anyway, Ive grown less nervous about brawl after discussing this with all of you, I think Sakurai (or however you spell it) knows what hes doing, his development team of japanese smasher with 1000+ hours of gameplay on their cubes fills me with optomism.

*Fingers crossed*

 

[Zephyr]

The way I play is very much like a grasshopper on speed. A grasshopper with a blue hexagon surrounding it.

I dunno, I just don't like the ground very much. My name IS Zephyr. >_>

Dylan, Davewashing and I win the thread. That response is exactly what I've been looking for from you.

GG, I'm done here.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dylan, Davewashing and I win the thread. That response is exactly what I've been looking for from you.

GG, I'm done here.

Pfft, this is MY incredibly popular thread, I decide who wins and who loses!

lol just kidding, thanks for the input, intresting discussion to say the least.

 

[Razgriz]

Heh. As a Marth player who fights Sheik on a regular basis, I gotta say that Marth's standard dodges are too slow to deal with Sheik. I don't know what I'd do without it wavedashing.

EDIT:
I guess I could manage fairly well with short hops, dash dancing, shield-grabbing and such.... But still.....

 

[Falco&Victory]

Ok, we should stop arguing about whether or not wding is as useful now as it will be later. If we see more aerial fights, wavelanding might be helpful, but if it is air focused fighting, the fastfall, shorthop, l-cancel, teching,wall-jumping, and edge-hog are here to stay.
Flaming each other won't make someone right, but it sure will be a loss to your respect, so use intelligible discussion and logic, not whether it is essential to your game or not.
Personally, I couldn't care less either way, becuase it will be a new game

 

[Sensai]

Did I see Meta post? I haven't seen that name in quite a while. But Meta, Dylan's mellowed out a lot. He's a bit arrogant (we all are when we first get here, some people STILL are), but give him time. He's a good poster, and one way or another, he adds diversity to the boards.

....nothing else to say. Thread moves so **** quickly that I just can't keep up.

BTW...I'm on my new Linux OS. W00t!

 

[AverageScalp]

I will definitely play brawl if it lacks the wavedash, even though I like the wavedash a lot, and love it's multitude of uses... I will still play brawl.

I am definitely in favor of the wavedash being kept though, as it really just seems fit in so perfectly with the general style of hectic gameplay that is Smash. Several, several pages ago in this thread someone said something along the lines that wavedashing will probably be replaced by something that makes more sense/ is more physically probable... I can't remember which.

Anyways, my point from all that is... when you think about it, does double-jumping make sense? No, it does not. The reason we accept it as more probable is because it has been in games for years and years, while wavedashing has not (although there have been sliding attacks, etc. it isn't the same thing really). So think about it, which is more probable? Propelling yourself upwards in mid-air by twisting fancifully or sliding a few feet across the ground?

This probably doesn't contribute much to the current argument; I just more of wanted to point out something about wavedashing physics.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

LOL, I love your signature ^^ Thats just simple, but funny as hell... I am le chuckling..

Ok I'm wondering now, people are saying that SSBB is going to be more ''air attack'' based... How are they going to do that I wonder? Increase jump height? add a third jump to non flying characters? (Oh, god I hope not)

The way I see it, melee is played in the air quite a bit, and even if SSBB is more air-based, the ground game is still going to be there.. how could it not be?

I'm really just confused as to this information that has been drifting through many posts as of late, does anyone know just WHAT is going to make brawl more air-attack based? Melee is an in the air game already.. bah I dunno..

thoughts?

 

[mario-man]

Good point there averagescalp. I totally agree. Sliding on the ground is much more logical than double-jumping.

Dylan, I have absolutely no idea how they could change the air metagame at all. I'm still confused about the whole thing that Sakurai said about it being "updated".

 

[edgeswipe21]

I don't know about the inclusion of all the adv techs but i know for sure that wavedashing will not be removed. The maker umm.. i forget his name said that removing the operations that are essential for wavedashing will cause glitches in the game. I hope to god that they don't remove any adv techs at all, unless they are replaced by new and BETTER techs.

 

[Metà]

Dylan, I play competitively, and I use all of the advanced techs. Hell, I practice them an hour or more a day (Fox is hard work >_<). I don't disagree with you that tech skill is important, but nobody cares about what you think Brawl will be like; you're just making people angry with your elitism. That is all. I didn't even feel like reading much after you responded to me because this whole discussion is barely going anywhere (it's gone on for 20 pages; multiply that by 40 responses per page and you have a lot of wasted time). You people should all just keep playing Melee and stop worrying about Brawl until it comes out.

Good god, why I am even in the Brawl discussion room. This place sucks. >_<

 

[Shai Hulud]

LOL, I love your signature ^^ Thats just simple, but funny as hell... I am le chuckling..

Ok I'm wondering now, people are saying that SSBB is going to be more ''air attack'' based... How are they going to do that I wonder? Increase jump height? add a third jump to non flying characters? (Oh, god I hope not)

The way I see it, melee is played in the air quite a bit, and even if SSBB is more air-based, the ground game is still going to be there.. how could it not be?

I'm really just confused as to this information that has been drifting through many posts as of late, does anyone know just WHAT is going to make brawl more air-attack based? Melee is an in the air game already.. bah I dunno..

thoughts?

When scrubs play Melee they tend to run around on the ground a lot, jumping mostly for movement and not to attack. Some of my friends don't even know how to control which aerial comes out, and these are people who own the game.

I expect making Brawl more aerial-based means making aerials EASIER to combo with. There will probably be more lag (freeze frames) when you hit a character, giving more time to set up for the next hit. I expect more drill moves and for them to lock the character in place much like in SSB64.

If they did add a third jump it probably wouldn't ruin the game. Melee has double jumps but for attacking people usually use short-hops unless they're finishing some kind of combo or otherwise have low expectation of getting hit off the stage, as using a double jump is risky. Using a triple jump would be even riskier, leaving you with virtually no recovery when hit. Anyway, my point is that even if the full jump is higher and there is a triple jump, it shouldn't slow down the pace of competitive play. In Melee all the characters but Jigglypuff move faster on the ground than in the air, so if people were bouncing around triple jumping all the time they would probably be punished for it quite severely.

Anyway, something like a triple jump is of far less concern to me than increasing hit lag or having more drill attacks.

 

[mario-man]

Meta, well, ummmmm, I'm not exactly sure what to say to you, but try actually reading Dylan's posts and understanding them. For one, I care what he thinks Brawl will be like. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD!!!!!! To find out what others think. He is not an "Elitest".

All I can say is (I'm not a guy that gets upset, but I will this time. I'll be fine in 1 minute so don't even mention it.), that if you don't like the Brawl discussion room, then stay out of it. It will make you feel better I promise.

 

[Razgriz]

I don't know about the inclusion of all the adv techs but i know for sure that wavedashing will not be removed. The maker umm.. i forget his name said that removing the operations that are essential for wavedashing will cause glitches in the game. I hope to god that they don't remove any adv techs at all, unless they are replaced by new and BETTER techs.

I really hope you're right, although you kind of worry me with ur "The maker umm.. i forget his name" but I'm still going to optomistically believe you.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Ah dont worry about it mario-man ^^ Meta is apparantly a skilled smasher so I'll take what he/she is saying in stride. Its true though I'm not an elitist, but I am not a noob either, which makes me better than noobs, fact not elitism. Anyhow forget it, saying im better than noobs is like bragging about edgeguarding falco.

When scrubs play Melee they tend to run around on the ground a lot, jumping mostly for movement and not to attack. Some of my friends don't even know how to control which aerial comes out, and these are people who own the game.

I expect making Brawl more aerial-based means making aerials EASIER to combo with. There will probably be more lag (freeze frames) when you hit a character, giving more time to set up for the next hit. I expect more drill moves and for them to lock the character in place much like in SSB64.

If they did add a third jump it probably wouldn't ruin the game. Melee has double jumps but for attacking people usually use short-hops unless they're finishing some kind of combo or otherwise have low expectation of getting hit off the stage, as using a double jump is risky. Using a triple jump would be even riskier, leaving you with virtually no recovery when hit. Anyway, my point is that even if the full jump is higher and there is a triple jump, it shouldn't slow down the pace of competitive play. In Melee all the characters but Jigglypuff move faster on the ground than in the air, so if people were bouncing around triple jumping all the time they would probably be punished for it quite severely.

Anyway, something like a triple jump is of far less concern to me than increasing hit lag or having more drill attacks.

Yeah I know EXACTLY what you are saying about the lag... here's a good example..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oppaug9tz80

Melee was originally supposed to be like that.. but they changed it.

I remember how increased hitlag way overpowered drill attacks in ssb64.. kirby's shffled dair - utlit - dair - tilt to 90% anyone? I hope that even if the hit lag is increased, that the drill attacks will resemble those in melee, I really liked drills in melee, they could be combo'd out of but they weren't invincible like they were in ssb classic.

The maker umm.. i forget his name said that removing the operations that are essential for wavedashing will cause glitches in the game.

LOL!!!!!! If thats true, that irony at its B E S T.

So many people on these forums refer to wavedashing as a glitch that should have been removed, but if what he says is true than removing wavedashing will CAUSE glitches lmfao... too funny.

 

[dizzy]

The maker umm.. i forget his name said that removing the operations that are essential for wavedashing will cause glitches in the game.

except "the maker" never actually said that...

 

[Shai Hulud]

Yeah I know EXACTLY what you are saying about the lag... here's a good example..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oppaug9tz80

Melee was originally supposed to be like that.. but they changed it.

LOL that's terrible. Fox's blaster is so slow...and Captain Falcon gets owned by everyone. The Falcon Punch does come out faster in that video though

That trailer reminded me a great deal of the Brawl trailer. Maybe they have more lag and freeze frames for programming purposes but intend to remove it later. *crosses fingers*