Who are the Top 10 Players of 2012?

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah shoutouts to macD for not being thought about ever for these lists lol.

 

[Shroomed]

I suck now.

I'll try to get good again.

EDIT: Fox/Falco are such *****es.

 

[SSBMLahti]

I suck now.

That's 'cause Marth/Sheik suck.

 

[Theftz22]

I'm just saying the community did not jump on the pen1s of Fly, Shroomed, or Taj after they did similar if not better runs at similarly tough tournaments. Nobody said, "Oh my so <so-and-so> is clearly at the level of M2K!" People are actually putting Javi higher than M2K in some of these lists. Like, gimme a break.

One top player + filler. Good filler, mind you, but at least when Armada came over he had the decency to beat 2 (arguably 3) of the 4 top players at the time in one run.

The difference is that we've seen the other players you list compete at many tournaments and not repeat the same results, thus we have evidence that they are not at that level. But with Javi, he's made that run 1/1 times. Obviously the sample size isn't large enough yet to draw definitive conclusions, but that's why I'd say Javi is given more attention.

Also, he hasn't had the benefit of competition within a major smash scene.

 

[Chroma]

That's not true at all. Actually, Shroomed's done similarly well at every national he's been to since his Genesis run, KK's taken top 5 at the last two nationals, Fly's a top player in the strongest region in the world, and Taj has a long history of being excellent even in semi-retirement.

 

[Froggy]

The difference is that we've seen the other players you list compete at many tournaments and not repeat the same results, thus we have evidence that they are not at that level. But with Javi, he's made that run 1/1 times. Obviously the sample size isn't large enough yet to draw definitive conclusions, but that's why I'd say Javi is given more attention.

Also, he hasn't had the benefit of competition within a major smash scene.

The fact that he has dominated his country for the past few years doesn't hurt either.

That's not true at all. Actually, Shroomed's done similarly well at every national he's been to since his Genesis run, KK's taken top 5 at the last two nationals, Fly's a top player in the strongest region in the world, and Taj has a long history of being excellent even in semi-retirement.

Shroomed and KK are getting a comparable amount of attention as Javi. Fly Aminita has a long history of being inconsistent, so much that he shouldn't be considered. I personally believe in Taj a great deal, but the fact that he is seemingly retired and more often than not plays Mewtwo at national tournaments, skews his results and any chance of forming a sensible analysis of his level.

 

[Metakill]

Javi needs to be top 5 at Apex 2013 and then he'll be a viable #6

PP taking a set of Armada make him close to Mango in #2 or even makes him #2?

Mango should play Falco against Armada

 

[Varist]

wanted to vomit when i saw someone mention PP as #2

quit underrating mango you ****s

he could **** armada in a second if he pulled out puff

he's less likely but still likely to **** armada in a second if he pulls out falcon

he just WANTED to do it with fox. he failed, so what, that doesn't mean he's falling off the ****ing map. mango's #1 in my heart and #2 officially until FC when he cuts the crowd-pleasing bs (which I still enjoy) and gets #1 officially like he ****ing deserves. get the **** out with that 1. Armada 2. PP 3. Mango garbage

 

[Jockmaster]

Mango is definitively better than PP, Impulse proved this

 

[Metakill]

Don't take me wrong, I'm Mango's fanboy and in my mind he is the best. I just talk about PP taking a set of Armada.

But damn, I want Mango to stop using Fox against Armada, anycharacter just stop using Fox.
Falco, Falcon, Puff, even Marth or Sheik. His Fox should only be used in friendlys, MMs or on Hbox

He needs to start playing to win again, stop that "to the crowd" playstyle

 

[Varist]

He should play to win only when kids get confused about who the best is. And only matchup-wise imo. Keep the aggro style because it's what's keeping Melee alive. Hungrybox isn't that bad but when he's forced into the same tournament with Armada they just ****ing **** on the scene when they meet. Mango needs to know when to switch between wtf aggro and safe aggro and just put Armada down. stars and stripes baby

 

[Lovage]

EDIT: yea hes aite

 

[Varist]

idk reading side bs and resting and stuff is pretty hype

 

[Strong Badam]

no it's ****ing gay

 

[SSBMLahti]

Mango's Falco would **** Armada.

Spoiler

Unless he LHDL's twice on his last 2 stocks and gets owned for it.

 

[Battlecow]

LOL u guys

Mango's better at falco dittos than PP, We know this

PP might be better vs. floaties than mango. His sets vs. Armada were better than mango's done recently.

The people saying Mango's falco would body armada obviously didn't see that same falco against Hbox, or against Armada in Apex crews (small samples, but still). His puff? I'll believe it when I see it. Quit johning.

Maybe he'll get good enough before they meet again. I hope so.

 

[Froggy]

LOL u guys

Mango's better at falco dittos than PP, We know this

PP might be better vs. floaties than mango. His sets vs. Armada were better than mango's done recently.

The people saying Mango's falco would body armada obviously didn't see that same falco against Hbox, or against Armada in Apex crews (small samples, but still). His puff? I'll believe it when I see it. Quit johning.

Maybe he'll get good enough before they meet again. I hope so.

You made a decent sensible post. I'm impressed.

 

[hungrybox]

wanted to vomit when i saw someone mention PP as #2

quit underrating mango you ****s

he could **** armada in a second if he pulled out puff

he's less likely but still likely to **** armada in a second if he pulls out falcon

he just WANTED to do it with fox. he failed, so what, that doesn't mean he's falling off the ****ing map. mango's #1 in my heart and #2 officially until FC when he cuts the crowd-pleasing bs (which I still enjoy) and gets #1 officially like he ****ing deserves. get the **** out with that 1. Armada 2. PP 3. Mango garbage

 

[JPOBS]

Mango's better at falco dittos than PP, We know this

PP might be better vs. floaties than mango. His sets vs. Armada were better than mango's done recently.

I don't see how mango being "better at the ditto" is relevent? Its almost as if you're implying that if mango played another character he would lose, and therefore be a worst player. But that would be a silly implication, because there's no reason for mango to do that if pp can't beat his falco. So surely that wasn't you're point.

And how has PP's sets with armada been "better" than mangos?
PP went 0-4, 4-3, and 2-4
Mango went 2-3 in a shorter set.

seems like they do about the same to me :stupidleek:

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I dont see how mango winning fc would make him the best. I remeber when armada won Genesis 2 people kept saying you need to win two majors in a row to be considered the best. (Impulse was not a major)

 

[KirbyKaze]

ROM isn't a major either then

 

[twizzlerj]

Was smasher's reunion not a major as well?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ROM isn't a major either then

i 100% agree with this. and no smashers reunion was not a major ether b/c so many top players were missing and not enough of the US or Canada showed up. these r all closer to what i would call national level (but i need a better name then that b/c its misleading since Canada is usually at these).

Things like Apex, genesis, pound are majors. (i wish we had 4 so we could be like tennis, i also wish we had 3 since pound is dead atm)

 

[JPOBS]

ROM, Impulse, Big House should all be "majors" imo. Anything approaching or above 150 entrants is a major, and to say otherwise would be ridiculous imo.

Apex, Genesis, and Pound are in a class of their own for pushing ~300 entrants.

 

[Varist]

hungrybox:

mango actually knows how to fight campers

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ROM, Impulse, Big House should all be "majors" imo. Anything approaching or above 150 entrants is a major, and to say otherwise would be ridiculous imo.

Apex, Genesis, and Pound are in a class of their own for pushing ~300 entrants.

right they r in a class of there own, the major class.

i feel when i call these other tourneys not majors people take it as an insult on the tourneys or like they dont mean anything which isnt true at all. but majors have all the best (or most of the best players) while these other tourneys r always missing a couple key people.

 

[JPOBS]

right they r in a class of there own, the major class.

i feel when i call these other tourneys not majors people take it as an insult on the tourneys or like they dont mean anything which isnt true at all. but majors have all the best (or most of the best players) while these other tourneys r always missing a couple key people.

We're really just arguing semantics.

And honestly, almost everyone relevant was at impulse and the ROMs, when it comes down to the top 8-16, it basically the same class of players who are at apex/genesis anyway. Unless you consider Armada attendance to be necessary for the title of "major".

 

[Van.]

The people saying Mango's falco would body armada obviously didn't see that same falco against Hbox, or against Armada in Apex crews (small samples, but still). His puff? I'll believe it when I see it. Quit johning.

Getting one stocked by armada on FD is a REALLY, REALLY strong showing for a falco. It is better than PP has done in recent memory.

If anything, apex crews bolster the mangos falco argument.

 

[Battlecow]

I don't see how mango being "better at the ditto" is relevent? Its almost as if you're implying that if mango played another character he would lose, and therefore be a worst player. But that would be a silly implication, because there's no reason for mango to do that if pp can't beat his falco. So surely that wasn't you're point.

And how has PP's sets with armada been "better" than mangos?
PP went 0-4, 4-3, and 2-4
Mango went 2-3 in a shorter set.

seems like they do about the same to me :stupidleek:

My point was that mango is better in some MU's and Peepee (maybe) in others. Mango wins the head to head, but that doesn't necessarily make him "better" if Peepee beats people he can't. Now, with current evidence, sure, mango's prolly #2. But I find it hilarious that you count Mango's Gen 2 set and not his Apex set. He got 3-2'd and 3-0'd, brother. and he didn't get another chance at either because he lost to Taj and Hbox. Haven't seen PP losing to Hbox recently.

Also MacD was on my list. Get at me.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

We're really just arguing semantics.

And honestly, almost everyone relevant was at impulse and the ROMs, when it comes down to the top 8-16, it basically the same class of players who are at apex/genesis anyway. Unless you consider Armada attendance to be necessary for the title of "major".

well when the best is missing its an issue, but i mean all of Europe is missing is also a problem.

and i guess you could say its semantics but its kinda important. like its the difference between winning Wimbledon and tennis master series Rome. both big wins but one is clearly a bigger deal then the other.

 

[DerfMidWest]

He got 3-2'd and 3-0'd, brother.

 

[Warhawk]

Getting one stocked by armada on FD is a REALLY, REALLY strong showing for a falco. It is better than PP has done in recent memory.

If anything, apex crews bolster the mangos falco argument.

I was just about to say this too, Mango's Falco did really well in Apex crews in what is probably Falco's worst stage in the matchup and the stage that's probably Mango's personal worst (I'm pretty sure I remember him saying on a tournament stream how he's not as good at FD because he doesn't laser as much).

 

[JPOBS]

My point was that mango is better in some MU's and Peepee (maybe) in others. Mango wins the head to head, but that doesn't necessarily make him "better" if Peepee beats people he can't. Now, with current evidence, sure, mango's prolly #2. But I find it hilarious that you count Mango's Gen 2 set and not his Apex set. He got 3-2'd and 3-0'd, brother. and he didn't get another chance at either because he lost to Taj and Hbox. Haven't seen PP losing to Hbox recently.

I honestly forgot about apex, but iirc, PP also got 3-1'd by armada at that tournament. Or was it 3-2? either way, apex doesnt change my argument at all. They have done pretty much the exact same vs armada recently.

And since you want to play that game, I haven't seen Mango lose to shroomed or fly amanita recently...

edit: or javi.
shoutouts to warhawk

well when the best is missing its an issue, but i mean all of Europe is missing is also a problem.

and i guess you could say its semantics but its kinda important. like its the difference between winning Wimbledon and tennis master series Rome. both big wins but one is clearly a bigger deal then the other.

Personally, I don't see why europe being in attendance matters. They all show up and get 33rd, I don't see how that makes adds to the esteem of the tournament win for the victor. I'm not even trying to be rude or abrasive towards europe. I just think people put too much emphasis on apex/genesis and seem to think winning other tournaments "doesn't count"

 

[Warhawk]

Or Javi lol

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Personally, I don't see why europe being in attendance matters. They all show up and get 33rd, I don't see how that makes adds to the esteem of the tournament win for the victor. I'm not even trying to be rude or abrasive towards europe. I just think people put too much emphasis on apex/genesis and seem to think winning other tournaments "doesn't count"

but as i said before the other tourneys do count, just not quite as much. Majors r a good/cool thing to have, they become these huge events with tons of hype (not saying rom and stuff doesnt have hype but its not as much) also picking certain tourneys as "the big ones" gives a sense of legitimacy and organization imo which is good for the community.

And u cant really argue these other tourneys r as big or should count as much when they are used at qualifiers for a major. That alone shows that they are not as big and serve as a lead up/ hype for the true major.

 

[Warhawk]

Maybe they shouldn't count for as much as like an Apex but they're still pretty significant.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Maybe they shouldn't count for as much as like an Apex but they're still pretty significant.

100% agree

but back to my original point, doesnt mango have to win two majors before we can call him number 1 again? we need to have common standards and this was the criteria people set before armada so it should be the same for everyone else.

Can we all agree on this?

 

[Warhawk]

I mean its like yes and no. Some people had already crowned Armada after Genesis 2 even though most waited until after Apex. I think it should've almost be viewed as though Genesis 2 signaled a potential passing of the torch, but not definite, and so let's not crown Armada yet for sure but he may be the best especially if he wins Apex. And then after Apex it should have been viewed as Armada is the best in the world and probably has been since Genesis 2. I think if Mango wins a big tournament with Armada in it we should probably still view Armada as the best, but look at it as a potential indicator of hey maybe Mango's taken this back but let's reserve that judgement for more evidence.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I mean its like yes and no. Some people had already crowned Armada after Genesis 2 even though most waited until after Apex. I think it should've almost be viewed as though Genesis 2 signaled a potential passing of the torch, but not definite, and so let's not crown Armada yet for sure but he may be the best especially if he wins Apex. And then after Apex, yes Armada is the best in the world and probably has been since Genesis 2. I think if Mango wins a big tournament with Armada in it we should probably still view Armada as the best, but look at it as a potential indicator of hey maybe Mango's taken this back but let's reserve that judgement for more evidence.

i agree with this. so even through winning one major is an indicator of a new possible best it would still take two wins before that person would be considered the best. sounds good to me

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah most people agree on that

if someone beats armada and wins one of them tourneys I'll be like "OK, maybe they're the best now maybe not. More data needed."

basically what I did after Gen 2.