Who agrees that Samus is a counter or atleast an equal matchup for SNAKE??

[XSilvenX]

I main Ike and when I play Snake it's almost impossible... so I started to think real hard who to use vs him in tournies. I was thinking Metaknight but I didn't wanna be a sellout and migrate to him because he's beast vs Snake. So I said...who can keep him at bay and outrange most of his annoying tilts. And a lightbulb lit up and said "SAMUS!". So I asked one of my friends to play my Samus on wifi and for once I wasn't afraid of Snake. I found it almost..easy.

I won't get into specifics..because I'm not really sure about this yet..I've only played about 3 Snakes so far with Samus.

But I'll point out a few examples where Samus has the utmost advantage for sure.

1.Somehow...you get Snake in a position where he's under the stage and has to use upb...he's a sitting duck to Samus' DAIR..and if he's near the stage, just ledgehop it. He can't do ANYTHING because if he dodges or attacks it will cancel his Cypher and he will come up short and won't grab the ledge...amazing ^_^

2.Samus completely obliterates Snake in a projectile fight. If you smartly spam a combination of homing missiles and mini-charge shots there is almost nothing Snake can do projectile-wise to fight back. He's forced to run to you...most likely if the Snake is good they will attempt to dash-cancel-upsmash to you..but hey that won't work so well against a barrage of missiles... hehe ^_~

3.Snake's Downsmash is USELESS!!!! ...Samus just needs to lay a bomb over them lawlz
Basically it's one less attack for Snake

4.It's extremely hard for Snake to use his rocket vs Samus. She can interrupt it easily with homing missiles

5.You know that annoying Dash Cancelled Upsmash spam that Snake players like to do back and forth across the stage? Kiss that goodbye. Samus players can counter by press "b" he runs right into it and it zaps him long enough for you to even get a good hit in.

And I don't think I have to mention the infinite amount of things you can **** him with off stage or in the air and still be able to recover... Double Nair off ledge... 5 Bairs... the list goes on and on...

Oh and incase you think I don't know wtf I'm talking about, I mained Samus in Melee so I'm naturally good with her in this game. You can ask Gum or Rohins. They both know I'm not a noob..far from it, so I do hold some credibility when I make such a "bold" statement.

edit - I still main Ike but I am working only on Snake vs Samus matches for that ONE matchup. I don't wanna go to a tourney and lose because I have no counter for Snake's gayness. Also I'm very interested in Samus vs Ike so if anyone wants to play my Ike please PM ME or AIM me. My AIM is the same as my SWF name...if you're ******** you can check my profile for it

 

[Gum]

yeah she is mos def a counter for snake. homing missiles are so good. btw is that akroma as you avatar?

 

[Pi]

With range and Zair and a good edgegame she seems to be a really good character in general. Your points seem valid enough for most of the cast.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

His Nikita can outproritize her missles and still keep going, although it does get redirected.
If you are far away, Snake can Sneak in a sheild dropped grenade to blast you in the middle of your projectile spam.
Snake can Jab or Ftilt to nullify uncharged charge shots, homing missles, and super missles.
Basically, Snake can walk, jab, walk, jab, rinse and repeat to approach. Most Snakes don't know this though.
Kind of even IMO.

If you want a character to counter Snake, try Olimar or R.O.B.

 

[Gum]

Playing smart forces snake to approach, which is what you want. Samus does a lot of damage per hit, so about two combos puts him well into spike range (one will do it most of the time), in which case he has lost a stock. its good times fighting snake.

 

[n00b]

I just beat a really good Snake with Samus. Doing full hop double missile twice will force a campy snake to Nikita through them, which you can airdodge the nikita to zair as punishment. Snake's recovery is also very predictable so dairs, zairs and chargeshots can get him. The main thing to do when playing a Snake, or anyone in general, (as well as my motto as a Samus main):

Eliminate options.

 

[Gum]

good philosophy. thats pretty much the rule I try to focus on as a samus player.

 

[0RLY]

Eliminate options.

QFT

Spoiler

made ya look

 

[dr0go]

There are only 2 characters that can beat a good snake player.their names are animal names and no it isnt fox

 

[King Kuma]

I agree. That's why I mained both characters. One for counters and the other for complete utter destruction.

:-P

 

[GotACoolName]

1.Somehow...you get Snake in a position where he's under the stage and has to use upb...he's a sitting duck to Samus' DAIR..and if he's near the stage, just ledgehop it. He can't do ANYTHING because if he dodges or attacks it will cancel his Cypher and he will come up short and won't grab the ledge...amazing ^_^

A Snake player can press down to let go of the Cypher without dodging or attacking, allowing him to pseudosweetspot the ledge.

 

[Crystanium]

His Nikita can outproritize her missles and still keep going, although it does get redirected.

A fully charged beam will handle the job, and if I am not mistaken, a z-air can stop it as well. Even so, it moves slow enough to be dodged, and redirecting it makes it slower. Once it has been dodged, the only other option is to cancel that attack. Snake is left open.

Snake can Jab or Ftilt to nullify uncharged charge shots, homing missles, and super missles.
Basically, Snake can walk, jab, walk, jab, rinse and repeat to approach. Most Snakes don't know this though.

Samus can do the same thing. The fully charged beam cannot be stopped by this, however.

Kind of even IMO.

Maybe if Snake went up against Zero Suit Samus.

If you want a character to counter Snake, try Olimar or R.O.B.

Or Fox, or Falco, or Wolf, or Pit, or Donkey Kong, &c.

 

[abit_rusty]

Counterpoints:

1. In the rare occasion that a Snake player is forced to recover from below, I agree. However, most good Snakes recover from up high, where usually only an opposing Snake's mortar can pose the greatest danger to them. Your point applies to anyone who has a spike.

2. Eternal Yoshi already said it, the jab stops them. A full charge blast will be stopped by Nikita. If you get hit by a charge blast it's likely because the Samus was smart in the timing/combos into it. Otherwise in a projectile fight that's not going to fly. Spamming missiles can only go so far since Snake can easily toss grenades in between/over the missile spam and force your spam to stop.

3. Just because you can detonate it easily, it doesn't make it useless. You say it's one less attack when it's not something that's used regularly, only in intervals and only at certain strategic times upon the Snake player's discretion. A Snake can win a match without proxy anyway.

4. Rocket nullifies missiles as mentioned, just have to redirect it. My 2nd point covers projectile fights.

5. It's not hard to powershield short burst charges. I get a lot of practice facing spammy wolves. A good Snake won't spam mortar slide much in the first place, only as a follow up or a surprise attack.

- Samus isn't the only one that can **** Snake in the air, that sole reason is why you don't see many Snakes doing aerial fights and mostly using their ground game.

- Zair can be avoided by going prone.

- I feel Zamus has a better chance against Snake due to comboing potential and speed. I guess that's my opinion but it's based on who I've fought.

I know you know exactly what you're talking about, and so do I. Samus is not much of a Snake counter.

 

[Gum]

Good points indeed, but one determining factor here is that nades dont stop FULL HOP double HM's. And the point is to get him into the air. Also, zair goes through rockets and hits snake, pretty much making the rocket useless. Another thing many don't realize yet is that Her utilt outprioritizes snakes jab AND his ftilt, and can be done very quickly after any aerial (including SH and FH HM's). Maybe not a counter, but its a **** good match, and good Samus players are not among Snake's best friends.

 

[dr0go]

^
UTILT

stops any aproach.with this move you want opponents in the air so you can laugh at them for their failed aproach

 

[Tetsuro]

I find that Snake is a very hard matchup for my Samus, though that is most likely because I am not as proficient with her as I am with Fox.

The biggest problem I have is with an aggressive snake who likes to stay in Samus' face making it hard to properly space her moves.

 

[XSilvenX]

LOL it's kind of funny you have to defend your character mr "abit" It's cool you know... lawlz. The only problem I find in the matchup so far is the fact that you have to pretty much gimp or kill with some gay crap to finish off Snake. I don't have much of a problem going toe to toe with him but it seems when it's time to actually KO the guy I'm always at a loss. I usually still do well even with that fact..this is why I think Samus has the advantage...even without amazing KO potential she's still on par with Snake...imagine now, if I were to actually gimp you which Samus can do (I just need more matches lawl) ...Snake wouldn't fair so well.

Not to mention it's hard to counter with snake's utilt since all of Samus' aerials are lagless ^_^

 

[XSilvenX]

Sorry For Double Post!

I find that Snake is a very hard matchup for my Samus, though that is most likely because I am not as proficient with her as I am with Fox.

The biggest problem I have is with an aggressive snake who likes to stay in Samus' face making it hard to properly space her moves.

That's funny...the Snakes I fight like to grenade, first..I don't see many SNAKE players NOT utilizing projectiles. Maybe because they know when it's Samus not to projectile fight her... hmmm that could be it. But once again, I feel that Samus can make her way around snake even at close range. Call me crazy...it could just be the way I play. . I definitely need to play MORE snakes to build this theory of mine.

 

[Crystanium]

Counterpoints

Let's see how they f-air.

1. In the rare occasion that a Snake player is forced to recover from below, I agree. However, most good Snakes recover from up high, where usually only an opposing Snake's mortar can pose the greatest danger to them. Your point applies to anyone who has a spike.

I don't know if this is directed at me. I said nothing of this. So, moving along.

2. Eternal Yoshi already said it, the jab stops them. A full charge blast will be stopped by Nikita.

I agree with both, because I pointed out both.

If you get hit by a charge blast it's likely because the Samus was smart in the timing/combos into it.

I don't know how many times I've gotten unsuspecting Fox/Falco/Wolf/Ness/Lucas players defeated because of this.

Otherwise in a projectile fight that's not going to fly. Spamming missiles can only go so far since Snake can easily toss grenades in between/over the missile spam and force your spam to stop.

Irrelevant, as Samus isn't going to be camping. Spam = Fail.

3. Just because you can detonate it easily, it doesn't make it useless. You say it's one less attack when it's not something that's used regularly, only in intervals and only at certain strategic times upon the Snake player's discretion. A Snake can win a match without proxy anyway.

The point is that it leaves Snake open in the same way Pit's Angel Ring leaves him open. I'm sure Snake can do fine without using the Nikita. That wasn't what I was saying in the first place.

4. Rocket nullifies missiles as mentioned, just have to redirect it. My 2nd point covers projectile fights.

And missiles ricochet rockets. Redirecting it slows it down, which allows any intelligent brawler to easily overcome this. Really, this isn't even a counter-point anymore.

5. It's not hard to powershield short burst charges. I get a lot of practice facing spammy wolves. A good Snake won't spam mortar slide much in the first place, only as a follow up or a surprise attack.

I know it's not hard to powershield, provided the connection is fine. If you're battling offline, that's a different story.

- Samus isn't the only one that can **** Snake in the air, that sole reason is why you don't see many Snakes doing aerial fights and mostly using their ground game.

You don't need to have your opponent in the air in order to perform the z-air. I hit Kirby players this way, and they're grounded. Even so, being in the air isn't necessary anyway. Go to an stage that has platforms, and that's all that is needed. Battlefield comes to mind.

- Zair can be avoided by going prone.

If by prone, you mean lying on the ground, sure. Samus doesn't rely on z-air alone.

Samus is not much of a Snake counter.

That would be another one of your opinions, wouldn't it?

 

[XSilvenX]

I just 3 stocked a Snake with Samus earlier today and consistently beat him....QUIT. Samus FTW!!! She's sooo a Snake counter. God I should have saved the replay, I completely forgot I was so hype I just spammed start and skipped the screen.

 

[abit_rusty]

@ Dryn. My points were in direct response to Silven's. Not to mention they completely went over your head. I'm not going to bother countering something that you misinterpreted.

@ Silven. We should play some time. PM/instant message me.

 

[goodoldganon]

I still think DK is one of Snake's toughest matchups.

 

[abit_rusty]

I still think DK is one of Snake's toughest matchups.

Wrong subforum, good sir.

 

[Crystanium]

@ Dryn. My points were in direct response to Silven's. Not to mention they completely went over your head. I'm not going to bother countering something that you misinterpreted.

@ Silven. We should play some time. PM/instant message me.

Oh well, abit_rusty. This is an open message board, so anyone is free to reply to anything. If you didn't want anyone to reply, you should've sent your esoteric counter-points to Silven himself. I say "esoteric," because your counter-points "completely went over [my] head," and I "misinterpreted" them.

Edit: I defeated my friend who played as Snake today. Living proof here.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

There must be a thread in each forum stating how their character is a Snake character, anyone else find this odd. If there are soo many counters for snake then why is he the most used SoB atm?

/Sarcasm.

 

[abit_rusty]

Oh well, abit_rusty. This is an open message board, so anyone is free to reply to anything. If you didn't want anyone to reply, you should've sent your esoteric counter-points to Silven himself. I say "esoteric," because your counter-points "completely went over [my] head," and I "misinterpreted" them.

I didn't mind the act of you replying. It's not personal so there's no reason for me to send it in a private message...this was a bold question and deserves a public discussion.

I did mind that you took my points to be directed to you when I was expressing it towards the OP. I numbered them to match his points. What arguments you countered with completely missed the points of mine. I'm sorry that you even believed that I was trying to be elitist because I was being as straightforward as I could and yet you misinterpreted me still.

You have to see that they are in response to Silven, and so they work in conjunction. It seems as if you simply read my points alone and based your arguments on them solely. Example:

I said:

Otherwise in a projectile fight that's not going to fly. Spamming missiles can only go so far since Snake can easily toss grenades in between/over the missile spam and force your spam to stop.

You respond:

Irrelevant, as Samus isn't going to be camping. Spam = Fail.

Silven originally said:

Samus completely obliterates Snake in a projectile fight. If you smartly spam a combination of homing missiles and mini-charge shots there is almost nothing Snake can do projectile-wise to fight back.

You based your response totally off my statement without considering that I was entirely replying to Silven's comment on spamming.

One more:

I said:

3. Just because you can detonate it easily, it doesn't make it useless. You say it's one less attack when it's not something that's used regularly, only in intervals and only at certain strategic times upon the Snake player's discretion. A Snake can win a match without proxy anyway.

Your reponse:

The point is that it leaves Snake open in the same way Pit's Angel Ring leaves him open. I'm sure Snake can do fine without using the Nikita. That wasn't what I was saying in the first place.

Silven's original point:

Snake's Downsmash is USELESS!!!! ...Samus just needs to lay a bomb over them lawlz
Basically it's one less attack for Snake

Again, it seems as if you totally ignored that I was responding exactly for Silven's third point. His point was that Samus easily detonates the mine without harm to herself, and so it can be disregarded. You're talking about the mine leaving him open just like Pit's Angel Ring...wha? Nikita =/= proxy mine.

Not sure what else to say, again don't think I'm talking down to you, I just don't feel you took my arguments for what they were worth by ignoring the fact that they are related to the original post.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

based on experience of playing 3 samus players they do well against snake, but by "counterpick" you mean they should be able to beat snake then idk because i havent lost to a samus with my snake. . . . . i wont even tell you how i got around all the samus tricks cause i dont wanna give away my strat :D

this is all in neutral stages right? cause of course samus would kill snake in like luigis mansion lawl

any samus that wants to play my snake pm me


also abit_rustys snake is wayyyyy better than mine, ive never beaten his snake...........with anyone :/

 

[Crystanium]

F-air enough, abit_rusty. Perhaps you should quote who you are addressing next time, or at least mention the name of whom you are addressing. I took your post to be directed at me, since there were a few things that looked as if addressing my points.

 

[AlAxe]

I've got to agree with hot arms and abit rusty. Samus may do okay against snake but she's not really a snake counter. Beating your friend a couple times doesn't really mean anything. Samus has a hell of a time ko-ing snake and snake's edge guard is difficult for samus to go through. If you want a snake counter go with falco, wolf, or rob.

 

[Gum]

Le fux? Wolf is in no way a Snake counter. Now, Im not saying Samus is a COUNTER per say, but dammnit if I dont LOVE fighting against Snake because that match is easy as hell. Maybe its an individual style thing, but Iv'e never had trouble against a snake. Also, recovering high doesn't save Snake because he is pretty open to a full CS at that junction.

 

[Crystanium]

If you want a snake counter go with falco, wolf, or rob.

Or Donkey Kong.

 

[Hive]

I really love samus, but I don't think she is a snake counter at all

if you see these vids you can see why...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yc-Xgw7ElwA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fdg3vy7wf3s

not to mention samus hasn't been the first to claim this:
Falco (how to 0-death snake. )
Fox (Fox, a snake counter? )
Jigglypuff (jiggs a snake counter??? )
Kirby (kirby counters snake )
Olimar (VS Snake ) (Gimping Snake ) (snake to easy )
Wario (**NEW** Delicious Snake Gimp + New Chaingrab )
Wolf (Wolf beats Snake! *Another awesome video of Wolf* )

That's not to say you can't go and kick some snake a** (It definitely IS fun!) just that he has an advantage most of the time.... tournaments seem to say this too (which isn't as reliable as it sounds...but still maybe an indication?)

 

[Hive]

most snakes seem to complain about these people the most...
Pikachu, ROB, Dk, Olimar

 

[Hot_ArmS]

Wario Owns Snake

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166310

This thread explains why Jigglypuff is NOT a Snake counter.

I need to face a good DK before I can say anything about that matchup.

 

[XSilvenX]

I really love samus, but I don't think she is a snake counter at all

if you see these vids you can see why...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yc-Xgw7ElwA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fdg3vy7wf3s

not to mention samus hasn't been the first to claim this:
Falco (how to 0-death snake. )
Fox (Fox, a snake counter? )
Jigglypuff (jiggs a snake counter??? )
Kirby (kirby counters snake )
Olimar (VS Snake ) (Gimping Snake ) (snake to easy )
Wario (**NEW** Delicious Snake Gimp + New Chaingrab )
Wolf (Wolf beats Snake! *Another awesome video of Wolf* )

That's not to say you can't go and kick some snake a** (It definitely IS fun!) just that he has an advantage most of the time.... tournaments seem to say this too (which isn't as reliable as it sounds...but still maybe an indication?)

The fact that other characters think they counter snake doesn't mean anything and btw that Samus was atrocious....nowhere near as fast as any other Samus I saw. It made alot of dumb choices IMO. I will post more later... I have to go now...

 

[Gum]

Yeah for real, that Samus was a lot less than spectacular. Not a good display of how she can really do.

 

[Hive]

yea ok, well I found them on the video thread.... I'm not saying that the videoes are FACT or anything.... they just might be an indication is all...
And I'm not saying that snake necessarily pwns samus either, just that he'll have the advantage in most matches...

 

[Hive]

"and btw that Samus was atrocious....nowhere near as fast as any other Samus I saw. It made alot of dumb choices IMO"

true, the samus wasn't really at her best game... and I guess snake fans would say the same too...
idk.... It just seemed like, and maybe it was just me, that in most cases snake had an advantage in situations where they both were playing decently...

 

[Hive]

"http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166310

This thread explains why Jigglypuff is NOT a Snake counter."

You're right ETERNAL YOSHI, sorry....