Whats with the camping?

[BlackPanther]

Yeah you're right. I'll be the guy that *****es but decides to go to Melee because that's where the skill is lolz. I started pretty late to and to think that people want to leave Melee knowing that the max potential of this game still hasn't been reached and go to a game when everythings already set in stone, pretty sad if you ask me. With Brawl what you see is what you get.

 

[Plairnkk]

Okay, i'm going to do something I don't usually do and respond to the thread post without reading most of the thread. I read the first two pages and overall, I'm way too lazy to read everything else.

Camping in Brawl IS the most effective strategy. Just like camping in melee IS the most effective strategy. In the end at high level play the game is going to become an absolute campfest.

With the ability to move swiftly and combo essentially taken out - the main objective of the game is to build up damage as quick as possible while saving your kill move for that certain set % that you can kill at.

Mindlessly camping and never relenting is one thing, and is simply stupid. It was stupid in Melee and it will be stupid in Brawl. But camping to build damage and to create openings will always be good.

Aho, you say "why bother camping, a smart player will always beat you", but what if the camper is a smart player?

I'm sorry if any of these arguments are tired/have been used, but i've not really scaled the entire thread.

See you guys Sunday, ;-)

EDIT:: I read a bit more and if you just mean people who literally roll away and do nothing but shoot arrows, rather than playing smart+defensive I know what you mean. That **** is just annoying and not very effective.

...
...
<_<
>_>

MILDDDD

 

[Fonz]

Overswarm makes valid points. People with his mentality play the game not to have fun, but to win. Because camping at any extreme will always be allowed, the only way to eradicate it is to find a way around it. Of course, Overswarm doesn't care if he's hated by the majority of the Smash Community, or if he isn't invited to hang out at and play friendlies. He doesn't care about merits or stylish points. He doesn't care about how he will be viewed. All he is focused on is winning, and because his style of camping gives him a high rate of success at doing so, he won't change unless that success rate lowers.

You can't really argue with this guy. He plays to win at any cost.

It also won't help trying to persuade campers to stop camping. The most effective thing to do is to find a way around it. The only thing I can think of that can beat campers are:

1.) An aggressive style that doesn't permit or allow time to setup camp.
2.) Counter-gaying. Fight gay with more gay. i.e. Shining forever with Fox against Falco's in melee.

Non-campers couldn't begin to debate or persuade campers. The same applies vice versa. Aho will never be persuaded to become like Overswarm.

I'm not trying to persuade him to change the way he plays. I'm just stating why the Brawl tournament I attended this weekend was not worth my time and I'd rather be playing Melee now. He's also a moron. The worst match I ever played was in pools at FC6 where I played Mendoza on Pokemon Stadium and I beat him with only a few seconds left in the match. I won, but it still sucked ***. Yeah, there are aways around Samus platform missile camping peach on pokemon stadium, but it just isn't the kind of game I want to play.

I'm really surprised at the number of good Smashers who have very scrubby attitudes.

Sorry Shai Hulud, I just don't see how not having fun playing a new game competitively and preferring the older version makes you a scrub. There's nothing wrong with playing to win but I simply don't enjoy playing that style or against it. It's not scrubby to not enjoy a way a game is played at it's current metagame. It just means you prefer a different game. When UNC used to spread the floor and pass the ball around the entire game cause there was no shot clock and win 6-4 it was effective, but god was it boring. Did UNC have fun passing for 40 minutes? I guess they would say they did, but it was so tedious for everyone watching and playing against them that the rules were changed because it would kill basketball's popularity. You can call the teams they played highly recruited scrubs, but the game in it's current form sucked ***, and had to be fixed. There's no easy fix for brawl to make it not suck, so this is the way things are. People will play other games if they don't enjoy it.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Sorry Shai Hulud, I just don't see how not having fun playing a new game competitively and preferring the older version makes you a scrub. There's nothing wrong with playing to win but I simply don't enjoy playing that style or against it. It's not scrubby to not enjoy a way a game is played at it's current metagame. It just means you prefer a different game. When UNC used to spread the floor and pass the ball around the entire game cause there was no shot clock and win 6-4 it was effective, but god was it boring. Did UNC have fun passing for 40 minutes? I guess they would say they did, but it was so tedious for everyone watching and playing against them that the rules were changed because it would kill basketball's popularity. You can call the teams they played highly recruited scrubs, but the game in it's current form sucked ***, and had to be fixed. There's no easy fix for brawl to make it not suck, so this is the way things are. People will play other games if they don't enjoy it.

I think what Shai is saying is that its surprising how many high level smashers get their panties in a bunch because they don't like the current tactics in Brawl. On the plus side, seeing as how Brawl is about as shallow as Paris Hilton standing in a kiddie pool, I don't think you'll have to worry too much about the camping as everyone will eventually move back to Melee.

 

[Steel Kangaroo]

I agree wholeheartedly with the people who are saying that camping is way to prevalent in this game at the moment. I could beat my friends pretty well once we all got used to the game, but once I played some people online I saw I was losing to people who weren't very good. Now granted this doesn't say much about my skill with the game, but I played melee for like 3 years competitively (granted I sucked then too but thats not the point) and I shouldn't lose to a laser spamming falco simply because I picked a character with no projectile. When I play with friends who don't camp, the game is fun as hell (although every game is close so there might not be much skill involved at our level) but playing online is a major chore.

I'm really surprised at the number of good Smashers who have very scrubby attitudes.

Shai Halud, you're missing the point completely. This is a group of people who were the best at melee, not because they were winning a lot of money, but because the game was fun. While it may look like whining to you, you have to realize these guys are simply saying the game isn't as fun as melee when you camp. Yeah it might be the best strategy because the only way to beat it is to do the same, but do you honestly want to play a tournament where every match is a 6 minute spamfest?

 

[shal]

yeah, some people find camping very accurate to their moves =\

 

[hova]

Hova left this page open on my wii, so I'm taking the liberty of addressing a few comments that a few buttplugs made:

Emblem Lord: What are you? Gay? Unless this place somehow got gayer since I stopped coming here, then intelligent discussion should be saved for someplace OTHER than smashboards, with people that are intelligent. You won't be invited.



Really? Then why don't you start the match, put your control down, and just watch the scenery?



I'll just go ahead and do everyone a favor and call you an idiot. You're an idiot.



So you just basically admitting you are a little girl unable to develop your own strategies, so you'll just fight like a homo until other people show you how to fight the game effectively? Grow an onion bag or go buy a Barbie doll set. Unless you actually are a girl, in which case I apologize for being slightly sexist.

I probably won't be reading this page again, so if any ******* got offended by what I said please direct your complaints to Hova, who I assume will be more than happy to work things out with you.

EGYbill is hilarious. I will randomly quote him for the duration of this thread for my own amusement.

this thread is done; Fonz had the last legitimate post

 

[Endless Nightmares]

So people are Q_Qing because camping isn't fun?

This argument is about as shallow as Brawl's metagame. In January.

 

[kirbstir]

To those who think people who complain about camping are scrubs -

Remember FC6? PC's Marth vs Vidjo on Jungle Japes? Even PC said it was gay. And he eventually beat it once he realized what a terrible choice Marth was for that stage =p

Complaining about something != not being able to beat it.

Also, good luck ever comparing to Doll as a camper

 

[Omni]

it's crystal clear why we play so much alike
i made this post in my head i just didn't post it
and you still bit my sheik, b itch a$$ n igga
n iggas always biting my s h i t WTF

I ain't bite your Sheik; it's like you said, we play alike punka$$. MM my Sheik with your Marth.

Crawling is a good way to approach projectile spamming characters.

 

[hova]

I ain't bite your Sheik; it's like you said, we play alike punka$$. MM my Sheik with your Marth.

Crawling is a good way to approach projectile spamming characters.

crawling is a terrible way to approach pit's arrows, mines and grenades, waddle dees, ROB's laser and driedle, pikmin, pk fire, pikachu's thunderbolts, and anything from toon link

it might get past lucario's shadowball, but his fsmash will get you before you can stand up

 

[Omni]

Good point. I was only thinking about standing Falco laser spam.

Crawling is terrible.

 

[aho43]

Crawling is awesome.

 

[Omni]

Crawling is awesome.

Good point.

Crawling is awesome. Crawling to approach campers is terrible.

I think Wario has the best crawl. Then Luigi.

 

[hova]

i think we need a TA crew battle with some amazing post production

 

[aho43]

By post production you mean: aho sits at his computer for a few hours. trying to get back to the topic. campers smell bad.

 

[slikvik]

Also, good luck ever comparing to Doll as a camper

doll taught me how to camp. hes sadistic with it

 

[Brookman]

By post production you mean: aho sits at his computer for a few hours. trying to get back to the topic. campers smell bad.

It's true, their matches take so long they never have any spare time to bathe.

 

[Omni]

"KM: you're all gay"

MD and VA are brothers
but MD is the older brother

lucario, t.link, marth, metaknight, ganondorf, c. falcon, and a few more people can foostool jump to d-air/down+b people in their shields.

 

[thumbswayup]

It's true, their matches take so long they never have any spare time to bathe.

LMFAO

10 char

 

[hova]

By post production you mean: aho sits at his computer for a few hours. trying to get back to the topic. campers smell bad.

i'll sit with you if it eases the pain. i'll even make popcorn

additionally, come smash son. what's up with everyone having school and jobs

online blows major ***


ergo, bill actually ***** me with ROB yesterday. it was quite embarassing

 

[Plairnkk]

It's not very hard to sway your opinions, is it omni? XD

 

[Gill]

I understand in tournaments, whats effective, goes. But for every aggressive close-quarters match I have, I have about five campy keepaway matches, and they're annoying. On wifi especially, as a Ike player, there aren't that many options against a Pit or Olimar who just rolls away the entire match. I'm not saying its impossible, but 2/3rds of your moveset becomes near useless. The input lag makes Ike probably one of the most obvious characters in the game, his actual speed is barely fast enough for you to pull stuff off, the input lag makes him cross that line sometimes, it feels like.

I'm not talking about the keepaway camping stuff in say, that ROB vs Snake match video posted before. That match was beautiful and very interesting, because even though it was keepaway, it was still extremely aggressive, and they were actually rallying for position.

The camping I'm talking about is staying across the stage, spamming a projectile until you come close, and then rolling away. As a Ike player, I still haven't found out wtf you do against an opponent who does this. One would say DURHUR GRAB STUPID, but then what? Grabbing doesn't lead into much of anything, it doesn't do a lot of damage on its own, its not as if grabbing someone assures a combo or something, it doesn't. His down smash doesn't work because it takes a while for the back hit to come out. The only thing I can do is dash attack and then fair and do some edgeguarding. Yeah, I'll win, but it wasn't satisfying in the least. Matches like these anger me because whether I win or lose I feel like I wasn't presented with a challenge, it didn't sharpen my reflexes, teach me anything, or refined my tactics and techniques.

I would be fine if camping was a dominant strategy, if everybody had some sort of a fighting chance, but camping paralyzes charactes who don't have projectiles of their own. Unless their name is Marth or MK.

 

[Plairnkk]

I understand in tournaments, whats effective, goes. But for every aggressive close-quarters match I have, I have about five campy keepaway matches, and they're annoying. On wifi especially, as a Ike player, there aren't that many options against a Pit or Olimar who just rolls away the entire match. I'm not saying its impossible, but 2/3rds of your moveset becomes near useless. The input lag makes Ike probably one of the most obvious characters in the game, his actual speed is barely fast enough for you to pull stuff off, the input lag makes him cross that line sometimes, it feels like.

I'm not talking about the keepaway camping stuff in say, that ROB vs Snake match video posted before. That match was beautiful and very interesting, because even though it was keepaway, it was still extremely aggressive, and they were actually rallying for position.

The camping I'm talking about is staying across the stage, spamming a projectile until you come close, and then rolling away. As a Ike player, I still haven't found out wtf you do against an opponent who does this. One would say DURHUR GRAB STUPID, but then what? Grabbing doesn't lead into much of anything, it doesn't do a lot of damage on its own, its not as if grabbing someone assures a combo or something, it doesn't. His down smash doesn't work because it takes a while for the back hit to come out. The only thing I can do is dash attack and then fair and do some edgeguarding. Yeah, I'll win, but it wasn't satisfying in the least. Matches like these anger me because whether I win or lose I feel like I wasn't presented with a challenge, it didn't sharpen my reflexes, teach me anything, or refined my tactics and techniques.

I would be fine if camping was a dominant strategy, if everybody had some sort of a fighting chance, but camping paralyzes charactes who don't have projectiles of their own. Unless their name is Marth or MK.

And thus why whenever pro-brawl players use the argument "It is more balanced and all characters are useable" I just laugh at them.

In the end IMO there will be an extreme limit to useable characters. Even moreso than melee, possibly.

 

[aho43]

when i use ike vs rolling people i run up to their shield and charge upsmash. if they don't roll across me oh well, but if they do it makes them feel stupid and they may not do it again, then you punish them when they roll the other way with an f-air or a charge overB. rinse repeat til they either stop rolling or lose.

 

[hova]

i thought we were done talking about this

Jon- come play some brawl

edit: adam is smarter than Gill

 

[Plairnkk]

hova i cant today, im going up to phili for a concert but im open tomorrow til like 4 or friday whenever....

or any monday/wednesday really

but also i got a new phone and dont have any of my old #'s, u should call me from urs or PM me it or something so i have it

 

[Fonz]

You guys are all wrong, Ivysaur has the best crawl as it is only detectable by the trained eye.

Crawling Tier List:

Invisible:
Ivysaur

Hillarious:
Wario
Luigi

Sexy?:
Snake
Zero Suit Samus

Goofy:
Diddy Kong
Squirtle
Yoshi

Not very interesting:
Pikachu
Sheik
Lucario

 

[Banks]

A good/smart player who camps relentlessly with a good character, who has good projectiles and rolling, will destroy any smart player who tries to be aggressive. The problem is not that the camper is camping, but that this crappy game prmotes that kind of playstyle with its terrible slowness. Being pissed off after matches with people likethis, or even ****ty campers that you beat may make you want to quit and go play melee. And isn't that a good thing, let's all play melee in tournaments again.

 

[chillindude829]

Luigi's crawl is way funnier than Wario's. In fact, Luigi's crawl alone puts him in the running for funniest character in the game, up there with Wario and DDD, among others.

 

[Fonz]

Luigi's crawl is awesome, but when you combine Wario's backwards crawl with his ability to fart from it, it surpasses Luigi. Nothing is scarier than a flashing Wario slowly crawling towards you *** first.

 

[thumbswayup]

DDD is def the funniest character in the game. his taunt where he spins his mallet and looks angry is just hilarious. whenever i see someone chaingrab flawlessly with him it makes me laugh cause his run is just too funny. oh and the best part is his dash attack. whenever you land that on someone its just hysterical.

 

[hova]

A good/smart player who camps relentlessly with a good character, who has good projectiles and rolling, will destroy any smart player who tries to be aggressive. The problem is not that the camper is camping, but that this crappy game prmotes that kind of playstyle with its terrible slowness. Being pissed off after matches with people likethis, or even ****ty campers that you beat may make you want to quit and go play melee. And isn't that a good thing, let's all play melee in tournaments again.

you are way off topic

Peach was by far the funniest character throughout the SSE movies

i actually play peach mainly because of her amazingness in SSE

 

[aho43]

is this what you do at work hova?

 

[kirbstir]

You guys are all wrong, Ivysaur has the best crawl as it is only detectable by the trained eye.

Crawling Tier List:

Invisible:
Ivysaur

Hillarious:
Wario
Luigi

Sexy?:
Snake
Zero Suit Samus

Goofy:
Diddy Kong
Squirtle
Yoshi

Not very interesting:
Pikachu
Sheik
Lucario

It's very telling that you have Snake's crawl rated as sexier than ZSS's.

 

[hova]

is this what you do at work hova?

among other things

 

[Gill]

i thought we were done talking about this

Jon- come play some brawl

edit: adam is smarter than Gill

Sorry. I wanted to add my two cents regardless. :|

***.

 

[g-regulate]

this thread is awesome. we must resurrect TA forums. campers are bad. TA is good

i once killed a campy pit with a snake-box-into-bair combo.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

John is g@y, Greg is not and Hova is a beast.

<3 TA

 

[Plairnkk]

Nobody likes you, go away again.