Whats with the camping?

[aho43]

Why does everyone camp their brains out in brawl? This is what I noticed at the most recent c3. smart players will still beat you.

do you enjoy running away the whole match?

 

[DoH]

It's the hylian strategy; I'll run away because I can't actually fight.

Let's Wifi adam.

 

[aho43]

k i added my brawl FC to my info. ill update my roster w/ you tommorow.

 

[Rebel581]

Actually, I found it fun in Melee too. So yes. I just played Marth, so it was less obvious that I was running away.

Either way, I'm working on getting close range combat down with my Pit. I made too many stupid decisions during that match.

 

[Renegade]

The first strategy in ANY game is to "turtle" or camp as you guys call it. Defensive, reactionary strategy is easier to figure out in any game as opposed to safe rush down.
In MvC2, trap based and runaway teams ruled the game for the first 2 years. Now it's Magneto.
In CvS2, Sagat and Blanka low Fierce all day reigned supreme. Now it's sagat and blanka 'rushing you down'.

Turtling is easier to do and will beat players of equal or even slightly higher than your skill level. If they are much greater than you, you weren't going to win anyway, so that's that.

It does often frustrate people into making a mistake.

 

[Popertop]

I'll play defensively every once in a while to mix it up, but I won't camp because I f****** hate it when people do that to me.
It makes you look like and @$$.
Seriously, one of my mottos now is "Campy players don't have any balls."
I mean c'mon, just fight me.
It is a fighting game, not a camping game.

 

[SmashBro99]

Ban camping just like items! lol.

If I get a chance to camp, I'm gonna do it.

 

[Popertop]

Man, I totally would ban camping if I got the chance.

 

[Evilpenguin]

I hate campers... but I deal with them fine. I have a friend who camps and spams all the time (he plays like 8 characters, too). The only camper that is really obnoxious is pit.

pit's arrows + pit's speed + pit's jumping = one annoying opponent.

 

[Lixivium]

Why does everyone camp their brains out in brawl? This is what I noticed at the most recent c3. smart players will still beat you.

do you enjoy running away the whole match?

Maybe if approaches didn't suq so much people would do it more.

 

[Cohen]

Yeahhhhhhh.....Camping is LAME!!!

 

[Firestorm88]

People haven't learned to approach yet so they're hoping their opponent approaches as it's much easier to camp. Soon we'll probably see a shift towards a faster game.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's pretty much the best strat in a game where aggression yields no direct reward.

 

[meepxzero]

hope the game does develop where rushing down wins games watchin a rolling back fsmashing lucario made me less hopeful for brawl being tourney game now -_-a

 

[g-regulate]

its not the best strat, its a strat that sucky people use to appear better. i dont have a problem beating hardcore campers but its just annoying and isnt fun. you arent smart, you arent clever, you wont beat good people. you just suck

 

[Nasanieru]

OMG Seriously that was just what I was thinking. In Brawl everyone seems to be out camping. Its sick, some of the people that I smash with were good Melee players but in Brawl its like their skill has become sub par as they have resorted to n00b strategies. I can still beat them with like 1 stock loss but characters such as Dedede and Olimar with good mid-range game really start to suck the fun out of the battle. It is extremely hard to punish Olimar for the pikmin throws as he can replenish his ammo with ease and if you try to counterattack with your own projectile, the little pikmin act as a buffer zone. Dedede isn't as bad, but the size and trajectories of his throws make a damaging wall that is troublesome to get past. This coupled with his huge grab range (+chainthrow) is well. . .annoying. Marth seems to do well in getting past these with his SH 2x F-airs, but when your a character like Jiggs, its a bloody nightmare. Well thats my rant. . .

Originally Posted by g-regulate
its not the best strat, its a strat that sucky people use to appear better. i dont have a problem beating hardcore campers but its just annoying and isnt fun. you arent smart, you arent clever, you wont beat good people. you just suck

QFT. Put away the tents guys. . .

 

[Emblem Lord]

No.

There are no real combos. Nothing to be gained from being aggressive.

If I'm working my *** off to get past a spammer and hit them my reward for that hit should be a combo.

But without that combo there is nothing to offset how good camping.

Also G-reg are you on crack?

A tourney isn't about having fun or whatever the ****.

It's about winning. Nothing more.

Azen camped with Lucario and won.

Good **** to him for abusing the best strat and ******.

Camping is the best strat because you control the pace of the match and the stage and it frustrates the opposing player and makes them do dumb things that you can take advantage of.

I mean let's look at Snake. His cmaping is insane and so is his stage control. Now add the fact that he has insane hitboxes on his tilts that equal Marth's attacks in range and how much damage he does (his f-tilt combo does 21%) and you have a character that is extremely hard to beat.

And since you can't combo Snake and he is third heaviest in the game so he won't die easily, you now have a character that can dominate in the Brawl metagame which is a campfest.

Brawl is a defensive projectile spamming campfest.

 

[Nasanieru]

It's pretty much the best strat in a game where aggression yields no direct reward.

How so? With that logic characters with no projectile such as Marth, Ike, Jiggs, Captain Falcon and so on have no place in the game.

EDIT: I can see where you're coming from, I really hope that the metagame develops away from this camp-happy trash.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You are correct.

Marth not so much. He is good enough that when he gets past camping he can do some damage, and he kills early thanks to his tipper.

But you are right about Ike, CF, and Jiggs and many others.

As the metagame develops, they will phased out.

 

[Mew2King]

yeah brawl just isn't fun like melee was, the game limits you to what you can do because of slower speed, higher lag, and slower everything in general, as well as overpowering things such as

1) shield cancel
2) shield grab with ******** range
3) super fast rolls
4) super fast dodges
5) periodic projectile camping ENCOURAGED to undo attack power deterioration (pits arrows, toon link)

among other things just makes brawl a boring game when played to a serious level compared to melee, where if you have enough speed/spacing etc. you can just **** them no matter what they do for the most part. It wasn't designed to be competitive, it wasn't designed to be a tourney game, and don't say that melee wasn't because all that matters is the end result; melee has way more potential of a game. It's just not very fun in general, it's a shame it's new and replacing a far better game.

btw, did you know shield grab is automatic? Block marths fair and shield grab the SAME Time it hits your shield. If you do it, you will grab AUTOMATICALLY as soon as you can after the shield stun is over, but in melee you have to time it for it to work. Everything is dumbed down extremely, and the best strategies won't make the most skilled player the victor the majority of the time as melee did, a very disappointing element of a fighting game.

 

[Emblem Lord]

At this point Marth and Metaknight are the only non-projectile characters capable of winning a tournament.

And that's only because they are really good and fast and have good options.

The rest that don't have a decent camping game, will be left in the dust.

And yeah defense is overpowered.

I mean SH airdodge? WTF is that?

Shield drop is like 1-2 frame(s)?

Are you serious?

 

[Eggm]

They camp because its so powerful in brawl..

 

[g-regulate]

yeah brawl just isn't fun like melee was, the game limits you to what you can do because of slower speed, higher lag, and slower everything in general, as well as overpowering things such as

1) shield cancel
2) shield grab with ******** range
3) super fast rolls
4) super fast dodges
5) periodic projectile camping ENCOURAGED to undo attack power deterioration (pits arrows, toon link)

among other things just makes brawl a boring game when played to a serious level compared to melee, where if you have enough speed/spacing etc. you can just **** them no matter what they do for the most part. It wasn't designed to be competitive, it wasn't designed to be a tourney game, and don't say that melee wasn't because all that matters is the end result; melee has way more potential of a game. It's just not very fun in general, it's a shame it's new and replacing a far better game.

btw, did you know shield grab is automatic? Block marths fair and shield grab the SAME Time it hits your shield. If you do it, you will grab AUTOMATICALLY as soon as you can after the shield stun is over, but in melee you have to time it for it to work. Everything is dumbed down extremely, and the best strategies won't make the most skilled player the victor the majority of the time as melee did, a very disappointing element of a fighting game.

NO JONES M2K, you make all of these strategies seem broken and unbeatable when they clearly arent. you can keep beating up on all of NJ/PA, who despises the game and refuses to get better, and thinking you are amazing, but play azen or other smart people and everything you mentioned becomes useless. let me elaborate.


1) shield cancel
2) shield grab with ******** range
3) super fast rolls
4) super fast dodges
5) periodic projectile camping ENCOURAGED to undo attack power deterioration (pits arrows, toon link)

1-2. SHIELDING IS BROKEN? are you serious? theres this thing in the game that was put in to counter shielding, its called GRABBING. you are quite good at it and you do it often, so you should know that if someone "spams shield" (lol), then grabbing just ***** them. its a rock paper scissors kinda game, very simple, not rocket science.

3. super fast rolls how does this break the game? everyone has a super fast roll, so how does this give an advantage to anyone in particular?

4. same with super fast dodges, everyone has them, how does that break the game when everyone can do it?

5. even with the most hardcore of campers, i.e. a pit just shooting at you, has no one else figured out that you can just run and air dodge through them, landing with seemingly no lag? or perhaps that you can just run right at them and "shield cancel" through any projectile that comes your way? wow, so broken, i can run right through them.

you are all so pretentious in thinking that so many techniques are broken when no one really tries to counter with simple smarts and tricks. i started using lots of air dodge in the air to escape stuff, and im noticing more people are doing this too, its good for getting out of combos. its a really good strat, until you start doing it all the time, and people start placing attacks where your invincibility frames end, leaving you a sitting duck. there are lots of counters m2k, stop being so closed minded and win some tournaments.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Oh, there are plenty of counters.

Just no reason to actually be aggressive vs camp.

It's better to camp in Brawl. Makes winning easier, which is what people wanna do when they go to tournaments.

 

[Adi]

1-2. SHIELDING IS BROKEN? are you serious? theres this thing in the game that was put in to counter shielding, its called GRABBING. you are quite good at it and you do it often, so you should know that if someone "spams shield" (lol), then grabbing just ***** them. its a rock paper scissors kinda game, very simple, not rocket science.

And then what are you going to do? Only a select few have any options to follow up on a grab. The Risk vs. Reward is terribly in favor of the defender. If he gets grabbed, big deal, it hardly does anything, and the defender can drop shield and activate almost any attack very quickly.

3. super fast rolls how does this break the game? everyone has a super fast roll, so how does this give an advantage to anyone in particular?

4. same with super fast dodges, everyone has them, how does that break the game when everyone can do it?

It's not the fact that it gives an advantage to anyone. It's just another weight thrown onto the scale in favor of defense.

5. even with the most hardcore of campers, i.e. a pit just shooting at you, has no one else figured out that you can just run and air dodge through them, landing with seemingly no lag? or perhaps that you can just run right at them and "shield cancel" through any projectile that comes your way? wow, so broken, i can run right through them.

It's certainly not impossible to counter the projectiles, but once again the Risk vs. Reward is incredibly skewed towards the defender.

 

[Eggm]

We should just play melee, its way more fun, maybe brawl tournies on the side for fun, and play online. This game is incredibly boring, and once you hit a high level of play it becomes a game of rock paper sisors, which yes can be competitive if you get a huge group of players who like playing it, but no ones going to be amazingly better than anyone else at it. >.> Thats what I think anyway.

 

[aho43]

I hope that all the camping right now is a result of people not knowing what the the hell they are doing. As people get more comfortable with the game and figure out ways to get around turtling I'd like to see more exciting styles of play out of people. If Brawl degenerates into everyone turtling, I'm just gonna have to beat the crap out of everyone w/o camping.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's not a result of the game being new.

It's a result of the Brawl engine and the fact that being aggressive leads to nothing, so you end taking a beating for nothing.

 

[UltraDavidSRK]

It is a fighting game, not a camping game.

You're thinking about this wrong. Brawl is a competitive strategy game that's all about controlling your opponent's space and options (and if items are on, controlling neutral third objects as well). When I'm playing a projectile character and I'm at the opposite end of the stage from your non-projectile character, I control all the space on the stage in between us on the ground and, depending on the character, in the air. That's a huge strategic advantage. Why would I voluntarily give that up? The only way I'd give that up is if you fought for it and took it from me, and if you do that, fine, you deserve to gain an advantage as well. It may be that Brawl's design doesn't give enough of an advantage to some non-projectile characters for getting in, and it may be that some non-projectile characters won't be good as a result, but every game has characters that succeed in the game's sytem better and worse than others; that kind of problem is nothing new.

You guys play a competitive strategy game seriously enough to be posting on the tournament discussion forum of a website dedicated to the game. Why would any of you insist on not using a particular strategy? Why is running away any better or worse than rushing down?

 

[Emblem Lord]

^^^This man for president.

 

[Atrion]

You're thinking about this wrong. Brawl is a competitive strategy game that's all about controlling your opponent's space and options (and if items are on, controlling neutral third objects as well). When I'm playing a projectile character and I'm at the opposite end of the stage from your non-projectile character, I control all the space on the stage in between us on the ground and, depending on the character, in the air. That's a huge strategic advantage. Why would I voluntarily give that up? The only way I'd give that up is if you fought for it and took it from me, and if you do that, fine, you deserve to gain an advantage as well. It may be that Brawl's design doesn't give enough of an advantage to some non-projectile characters for getting in, and it may be that some non-projectile characters won't be good as a result, but every game has characters that succeed in the game's sytem better and worse than others; that kind of problem is nothing new.

You guys play a competitive strategy game seriously enough to be posting on the tournament discussion forum of a website dedicated to the game. Why would any of you insist on not using a particular strategy? Why is running away any better or worse than rushing down?

I think that the majority of people are just upset in the direction that Brawl seems to be headed. While there have always been projectile spammers in melee the reward for getting to them was also higher. If you stayed on one side of the stage controlling all that is in front of you and I managed to get to you then I could toss you off the stage and have a chance to edgegaurd you. With the little hitstun that moves have and everyones improved floaty recovery and multiple air dodges this probably wont happen. Hell even if you were good and moved around I could at least get a nice combo out of a grab.

And again while playing the running away game is a valid strategy it will be a shame if that’s all that’s left in the game. While it will take skill to play against another projectile spammer and hit them more than they do you, it could just turn into very slow matches staying away from each other and playing the clock. That would lead to a very boring and long game, at least to me.

But brawl is new and there is still hope. Hopefully people do figure out new rush down methods that result in better rewards for the offensive player.

 

[Brookman]

I hope that all the camping right now is a result of people not knowing what the the hell they are doing. As people get more comfortable with the game and figure out ways to get around turtling I'd like to see more exciting styles of play out of people. If Brawl degenerates into everyone turtling, I'm just gonna have to beat the crap out of everyone w/o camping.

Fixed.

Azen won with Lucario? I've only heard people calling him bad and ish.

@ Brawl

 

[KevinM]

You're thinking about this wrong. Brawl is a competitive strategy game that's all about controlling your opponent's space and options (and if items are on, controlling neutral third objects as well). When I'm playing a projectile character and I'm at the opposite end of the stage from your non-projectile character, I control all the space on the stage in between us on the ground and, depending on the character, in the air. That's a huge strategic advantage. Why would I voluntarily give that up? The only way I'd give that up is if you fought for it and took it from me, and if you do that, fine, you deserve to gain an advantage as well. It may be that Brawl's design doesn't give enough of an advantage to some non-projectile characters for getting in, and it may be that some non-projectile characters won't be good as a result, but every game has characters that succeed in the game's sytem better and worse than others; that kind of problem is nothing new.

You guys play a competitive strategy game seriously enough to be posting on the tournament discussion forum of a website dedicated to the game. Why would any of you insist on not using a particular strategy? Why is running away any better or worse than rushing down?

Single best post of the thread.

And you know for smashers who absolutely PREACH no johns,lLets stop making complaints about camping ehh?

 

[ZoSo]

You're thinking about this wrong. Brawl is a competitive strategy game that's all about controlling your opponent's space and options (and if items are on, controlling neutral third objects as well). When I'm playing a projectile character and I'm at the opposite end of the stage from your non-projectile character, I control all the space on the stage in between us on the ground and, depending on the character, in the air. That's a huge strategic advantage. Why would I voluntarily give that up? The only way I'd give that up is if you fought for it and took it from me, and if you do that, fine, you deserve to gain an advantage as well. It may be that Brawl's design doesn't give enough of an advantage to some non-projectile characters for getting in, and it may be that some non-projectile characters won't be good as a result, but every game has characters that succeed in the game's sytem better and worse than others; that kind of problem is nothing new.

You guys play a competitive strategy game seriously enough to be posting on the tournament discussion forum of a website dedicated to the game. Why would any of you insist on not using a particular strategy? Why is running away any better or worse than rushing down?

Are you same guy responsible for the Q guide on the SRK forums?

Also, nice post.

 

[CervPurp63]

eh, brawl will be the laughing stock of all fighting games if it broke down into broke *** shootouts.

 

[CervPurp63]

seriously, i dont care if you're trying to win a tournament, you just look like a *** if you camp. and it literally sucks the fun away from the game. It's called Super SMASH Brothers for a reason. If you wanna just camp, shoot, and be slow play HALO or Rainbow Six. Sure, using projectiles to control the map is smart, but at least MOVE while you do it. Honestly, the game is no fun when one guy is standing there shooting the same thing and only pressing another button if the opponent gets in CQC range. This extreme camping **** better not dominate the EVO tournament this year, or nobody will have any respect for smash brothers. Btw, if you think you're good at brawl cuz you camp or use a character that takes no still to combo with, YOU SUCK! (just my opinion, happy easter)

 

[UltraDavidSRK]

Are you same guy responsible for the Q guide on the SRK forums?

Yep, that's me.

Also, there's nothing broken about shootouts. What's the difference for you between pressing attack from far away and pressing attack up close? Why preference hitting the opponent with a fireball as opposed to a throw? I just don't get what's assy about using one strategy instead of another. Haha by the way, it's hilarious that people here are cool with throws and not keepaway. Street Fighter scrubs back in the day were just the opposite, cool with keepaway and pissed about throws.

Frankly I think more people at Evo will take Brawl more seriously if it can be shown to have a real spacing and keepaway game. We like that kind of strategy.

 

[Jiano]

Watching a brawl tournament match is the most boring **** in the world. 6-8 minutes of people doing the same couple moves/projectiles over and over, fun stuff.

I've been placing well with Snake using almost nothing but grenades and forward tilts out of shield. Sure hope it advances passed this **** quickly or I won't be playing Brawl much longer.

 

[Emblem Lord]

seriously, i dont care if you're trying to win a tournament, you just look like a *** if you camp. and it literally sucks the fun away from the game. It's called Super SMASH Brothers for a reason. If you wanna just camp, shoot, and be slow play HALO or Rainbow Six. Sure, using projectiles to control the map is smart, but at least MOVE while you do it. Honestly, the game is no fun when one guy is standing there shooting the same thing and only pressing another button if the opponent gets in CQC range. This extreme camping **** better not dominate the EVO tournament this year, or nobody will have any respect for smash brothers. Btw, if you think you're good at brawl cuz you camp or use a character that takes no still to combo with, YOU SUCK! (just my opinion, happy easter)

Massive Failure.

 

[Sliq111]

its not the best strat, its a strat that sucky people use to appear better. i dont have a problem beating hardcore campers but its just annoying and isnt fun. you arent smart, you arent clever, you wont beat good people. you just suck

QFT. (10 char)

Brawl is a fighting game. If I wanted to play a slow paced strategy game, I would.

I don't get why campers and spammers play. How can you get a reward for doing something that requires little to no skill? Do you get any sense of accomplishment for choosing Pit and mashing B?

You know why there aren't any sleeping tournaments? Because anyone can do it, it isn't hard to do, and it isn't compelling to participate in or spectate.