Whats with the camping?

[Emblem Lord]

No.

There are no better options in Brawl. Camping is the best strat.

I don't know what gave you the idea that anything is better then camping in Brawl.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ignore this.

 

[pockyD]

what should the counterpick rule be then? one-game sets?

if you're so sure of your victory, you can just go ahead and concede game 2 once you know the matchup/stage... i've seen it happen before -_-

 

[Atrion]

Here are some good matches showcasing some of the things people are talking about. Its DSF Vs. a SF player named Amir.
R1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQOWIObm_0g
R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB1dFc0Wvms
R3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suC5cKxURNM

 

[unknownforce]

It is true that this game provides more defensive options than melee. On the positive side, if you go on the offense and mess up one time, you won't get combo'd to death. In a way, this means that you can be more risky in your offensive moves, assuming you aren't at high enough damage to die by a single attack.

It does seem that this game is more defense than offense so far. However, I find it's pretty easy to learn player patterns in this game. If you don't let camping annoy you too much, you can usually find an opening eventually. The key is to not get angry and careless, or else you've already lost to the spam.

 

[hova]

i hope everyone realizes that there is a difference between defensive play and flat out camping...

at this point, defensive play seems to be the best tactic; although g-reg still seems to do well with his recklessness

 

[Emblem Lord]

Try being reckless vs Snake.

It will get you killed and he will KO you at 80 or 90.

 

[hova]

he actually uses snake, so i'm not too sure of how that would go

why do you keep acting like you know so much more about the game than everyone else? as if your month of experience with brawl is the end all, be all

 

[chillindude829]

why do you keep acting like you know so much more about the game than everyone else? as if your month of experience with brawl is the end all, be all

this. sorry emblem lord but you're not somehow aware of all brawl's ins and outs within a month of its release.

 

[MASAHIROx]

pockyD - exactly. camping is legit. its just gay. but if the only way to get the win, by all means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iof9C2Zoho

^not the best example by far. More just playing smart than camping.

takes mathos. is he good? not really. can he get wins by playing gay and camping? yes
^ this goes for other good players as well.

 

[CervPurp63]

Smash players are gonna get laughed at if all we do is camp in tournaments. Escpecially with EVO 2008 coming up, everyone is gonna see what the best smash players can do. If it only amounts to rolling and shooting, Smash players as a community are gonna get laughed at.

 

[MASAHIROx]

and we care about what other players that done even play our game think of us?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ummm the guys at EVO a.k.a SRKers knew Brawl was about camping before C3.

Also my opinion about brawl isn't the be all end all, but when people say there are better options in Brawl when there isn't or say things like how aggro will develop eventually when it really can't because there is no reward and you gain no real advantage I have to question whether or not those people really understand the engine or if they just don't want to admit that a strategy they hate is the best strategy in the game.

I think it's the latter.

I think all of you TA guys are intelligent smashers you just hate the idea that Brawl has no good options besides camping and that bothers you, so instead you say that aggro will develop in time, when you know it can't because their is noting to develop.

Aggro hits an insurmountable wall oncwe you get that initial 2-3 hits in. After that, there is nothing and the camping resumes. From there you have to predict or guess your opponent's actions and that's why aggro fails in Brawl becuause you don't get anything for it that is worth while.

 

[Atrion]

Smash players are gonna get laughed at if all we do is camp in tournaments. Escpecially with EVO 2008 coming up, everyone is gonna see what the best smash players can do. If it only amounts to rolling and shooting, Smash players as a community are gonna get laughed at.

smash players wont get laughed at because that kind of game is pretty common in some of their fighters. Plenty of people camp/turtle in SF, MVC2(runaway), CVS2. If anything this is actually making brawl seem like more of a "real" fighter in the eyes of their community since they found the offensive pace of melee to be lacking.

 

[hova]

emblem lord- once you have started hitting your opponent, it is easy as hell to keep hitting them. i have chased people around the stage for their entire stock, keeping them off balance and preventing any form of camping. as long as you don't go for a huge kill move and miss and also keep them off of the edge then you're good to go. i'll admit that it is definitely easier at lower percents, but i definitely benefit from cautious aggression. the only person i've played that serious wrecks my **** is inferno omni and he's not a camper


edit: i have yet to be successfully camped by any player; which is why i'm having such a hard time seeing where you're coming from

 

[Habanero Pepper]

and we care about what other players that done even play our game think of us?

Apparently we've regressed to our old Pokemon Card days when we snuck around to avoid the glaring eyes of the prejudicial cliques hanging around the middle school hot spots.

Who cares if camping is the best strategy, I'll just use that to take your money while you off yourself on overly aggressive tactics. It works, so why not use it. If the game does come down to that and only that, our massive community will keep it alive and thriving regardless of repetition. If something gamebreaking comes along that turns camping bad, ok, I'll be just as fat and happy then as I am now shooting pumping full of arrows and blowing them away with cell shaded bombs.

I can garentee you that once you close quarters fighters win a handfull of money from camping the other guys brains out along with whatever you need to do up close to kill, you'll quit whining and contribute to something other than this ignorant mess of a thread debating which method is superior, when there's clearly supossed to be a mix of the two, with camping having an edge on racking up damage safer.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ahh, but was that damage gaurunteed?

Or are you just good at reading your opponent?

Were your opponents any good?

These are things to take into consideration.

Also there are situations an agressor can create that put him at advantage however slight it may be.

Namely when they are in the air aand you force their airdodge, and then hit them where they land. As long as you time their attack well they will eat the hit when they land, since you are vulnerable for about 3 frames when you hit the ground, probably a bit more since the airdodge usually ends a bit before they actually touch the ground.

I certainly know how to create a situation to cover the options of my opponent, but the main point is that it is much harder to do that know thanks to a slower engine and much harder to get any good damage in since nothing is guaranteed.

 

[chillindude829]

EL it sounds like you're basically saying, approaching is bad because you can only get a couple hits in unless you can predict your opponent, and therefore camping is the only good strategy.

So what if you CAN predict your opponent? Because I sure as hell can and I get plenty of reward for attacking.

 

[hova]

EL- by your explaination, there's no guaranteed reward for camping. the projectiles got toned down along with the rest of the game. i could honestly sheild, sidestep, or roll to avoid every projectile. hell, i could go grab the opposite ledge and hang out all day

attacking only yields reward if i'm smart?? camping only yields reward if the opponents chooses to approach...

i really don't see what you're getting at with all these if, ands, or buts


you should just come down to md/va so me and chillin can show you how to play

 

[pockyD]

then you're just beating them because you're already a better player

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yes.

You can predict people, but it doesn't always work out so well. But here is the thing.

Why should you have to predict me after hitting me with something that should combo but it doesn't because of no hitstun?

Are you going to sit there and type out a response to me saying that canmping and approaching are on the same level?

They are not. We all know that. Approaching took a huge nerf and camping got a buff.

Not to mention as you are trying to approach you will eat some hits here and there and then when you finally get to your opponent you may end up getting knocked away and even if you hit them there is only a chance you can keep getting in more damage.

What I'm about to say is fact ok.

In a game where there are no long combos and no way to deal out solid damage camping becomes the best strat simply because it allows a player to control the match, the stage, and put their opponent where they want them to be.

It's about getting any type of advantage and smart camping gives you that.

That's all it is really.

If I'm camping you and you are trying to get past my camping then just by looking at the situation you can see who holds the advantage. I do, since you are trying to stop the control I have and you are trying to get past what I'm doing that allows me to dictate the match.

Camping > approaching in Brawl and in most fighters as well.

This isn't disputable.

The question which is also the title of thread is "What's with all the camping?"

The answer is simple.

Smart camping wins.

 

[Habanero Pepper]

EL it sounds like you're basically saying, approaching is bad because you can only get a couple hits in unless you can predict your opponent, and therefore camping is the only good strategy.

So what if you CAN predict your opponent? Because I sure as hell can and I get plenty of reward for attacking.

You and Azen continue to make me smile

EDIT: Maybe everyone should take a step back and see what wins tours more often than not. Then the answer will be clear and this can end.

 

[sesshomaru]

so skimming through this thread i read about all the thoughts i had when i first got brawl. yes defense is buffed and people flock to it because their first couple of run ins lead to a ******, but with my time spent with brawl and imo camping feels offset by certain moves some characters have. the biggest example i can give is perfect shielding, annoying as hell in a computers hands but offset well by multiple hit moves. computer hitting alot of ps can be approached by foxs fair. fair, fall bak out of grab range, fair again this time clipping there head and hittin the sweetspot.

the only REAL camping i have a problem with is with very aggressive chars. camping MK is a huge pain obviously because once you slip up u can be punished right into a gimp. solution to this? who knows, our characters are still developing as is the game. its irritating now (and god its so bad sometimes -_-) but camping is nothing new, theres still alot of strategies and matchups to find there place. maybe even one where sonics good

 

[Emblem Lord]

hova: The reward for camping is control not damage. Damage is a bonus. Also you could ledge stall.

But trust me. If you ledge stalled me while I was playing Falco I would happily continue lasering the whole time. I'm a pretty patient player.

Also I'm pretty sure a judge would call stalling on you if you did that for a long time, then again I could just stop and get close to pressure you into getting off the ledge then run away and continue lasering.

 

[Brookman]

You know EL, talk is great and everything, but I say stfu and play the game. Or don't, of course, it's up to you.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok.

And where did this come from?

And I'll play the game. At least till Street fighter 4 comes out. >_>

 

[pockyD]

if you beat camping by ledge stalling, then YOU are camping

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well stalling isn't that bad actually. There are ways to stop that too.

But that is something to try vs more impatient players who camp. I'll try that sometime.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

Here are some good matches showcasing some of the things people are talking about. Its DSF Vs. a SF player named Amir.
R1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQOWIObm_0g
R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB1dFc0Wvms
R3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suC5cKxURNM

I watched these videos and saw only one thing: experimenting.

This game hasn't been out long enough to concretely say which characters are the better campers. In melee, a pika would be hard pressed trying to out-camp a Samus with projectiles because he would know that Samus can easily overpower him, but only because those two techniques have been well established.

Is Toon Link the better camper against Pit? How about against Fox? Even if you're the better camper, is it beneficial to camp or to be aggressive? Only time will tell, and matches like the three above are good ways to help iron out these facets of the game. And once that happens, you can bet that people will not continue to try to out-camp their opponent if their opponent can do it better.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Camping is a legitimate strategy like any other. However, it is ****ing boring. Breaking down camping is satisfying, but having to play a ton of people just roll spamming and running away and shooting **** at me gets old. The end result is the same, I win, after chasing them down and dair-utilting them over and over with fox, and waiting for a stupid roll + usmashing them.

Coming from melee and playing an aggro style its just depressing that this is where the game seems to be heading. Can we all agree that its ****ing boring? There can be a happy medium between playing aggro and strictly camping. Usually what people refer to as "playing smart." It seems that people are going heavily towards strictly camping as opposed to even try attacking at all even when there is an opportunity to get a good hit.

NEO, Brawl is devoid of all things sexy, except sheik. You'll be sad.

that's gay, we spawned a ****load of pretty **** in melee in my basement ROFL




**** it there will be more

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

censorship is F U C K I NG GAY



WOW

 

[KevinM]

That was the best double post i've seen in a while

 

[Overswarm]

Why does everyone camp their brains out in brawl? This is what I noticed at the most recent c3. smart players will still beat you.

do you enjoy running away the whole match?

Yes. I do enjoy it.

I enjoyed it in Melee too.

<3 camping

 

[Mew2King]

this game is a lot more camping based than attacking, just cuz you can win with attacking doesn't mean the strategy is better, it just means that you're better and will win anyway, it doesn't make the strategy better. Sheild camping completely avoids trading hits in this game, and that's ****ing boring as hell

 

[Drephen]

Yes. I do enjoy it.

I enjoyed it in Melee too.

<3 camping

no. camping sucks

you sucked in Melee too

**** camping

 

[Emblem Lord]

I never knew how much growth our community had left.

We have a long road ahead of us.

 

[aho43]

EL why are you being so condescending. Camping is boring. No one is saying its not a valid strategy. It's just a lame and boring one. You aren't an authority when it comes to melee or brawl.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm not trying to be honestly...I'm just shocked.

I mean, I never knew our community had such a problem with a tactic that almost everyone one of us uses.

Does it suck that Brawl is shaping up to have one dominant tactic?

Well, yeah I mean it would be awesome if you could combo and stuff, but to flip and say camping is stupid or w/e just seems kind of silly.

And then to say it's the path of the scrub or w/e just isn't right IMO.

If you don't like it that's fine, but to talk down to those that do it or argue for it isn't right.

 

[Overswarm]

no. camping sucks

you sucked in Melee too

**** camping

$5 MM at next tournament we go to?



Camping always has worked. It was what won tournaments in Melee too, it was just a different kind of camping. Now that I have some awesome projectiles and range to boot, I can camp the old fashion way and win on neutrals the same way I won on my counterpicks in Melee.

Really, I like seeing all of the "stupid camping" comments. Just means easier opponents in the future. It won't be long before people stop saying "oh, I haven't played that character before" and start saying "if he does X, do Y", but by then all these players will have left because they can't get around something as simple as a laser

 

[Banks]

camping is the better and more reliable strategy, if you don't suck