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What You Didn't Know About Meta Knight's Match-Ups.

NeoCrono

NeoCrono

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
573
Location
Charlotte, NC (where the bobcats play)
I'm neutral when it comes to the fate of MK. If he is banned, that one less match up I have to worry about(but I would feel bad for all the MK who invested countless hours on developing there games) But that just from a match up stand point. Well, I guess I can I'm against it. Cause even though he is clearly broken, people are finding ways to beat him (and plus his tournament wining % thingy is going down. It was 45% and now I believe that it 37%) So someone is doing something right. :)
 
napZzz

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
Mew2King said:
you see this is where people decide to be dumb. Sheik is the best in melee despite tourney evidence, you cannot just base off what people play. Jigglypuff doesn't suddenly get way better when mango uses her, she was always that good, it's just no one good (or not enough good people, especially not enough to find the right player) played her seriously or DEVELOPED HER CHARACTER. This is the problem with the brawl community, all you guys do is whine and john instead of using other characters and playing with them. Almost every character has been undeveloped a ton. When you have an extreme amount of MKs all playing and copying off each other and tons of people using him, he is going to take a lot of top places. That's why your argument, that argument, is not a good one.
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The problem is that people are GONNA overuse meta if he takes the top spot and people see how many people **** with him (like you)

He's the perfect noob character, or the "I wanna win" person.

Not many people want to take the time to play another character and get good when they can go MK if all they wanna do is win.
 
HolyKnight

HolyKnight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
251
Mew2King said:
you see this is where people decide to be dumb. Sheik is the best in melee despite tourney evidence, you cannot just base off what people play. Jigglypuff doesn't suddenly get way better when mango uses her, she was always that good, it's just no one good (or not enough good people, especially not enough to find the right player) played her seriously or DEVELOPED HER CHARACTER. This is the problem with the brawl community, all you guys do is whine and john instead of using other characters and playing with them. Almost every character has been undeveloped a ton. When you have an extreme amount of MKs all playing and copying off each other and tons of people using him, he is going to take a lot of top places. That's why your argument, that argument, is not a good one.
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I honestly think that no one will listen to this, coming from you, they just might, or at least i hope so. It's interesting to go to the tourneys around here, and see plenty of falcos, marths, and snakes. But i have yet to see a decent Metaknight. AZ seems to be focused on melee top tiers and bringing them back, not to mention a handful of wario's all trying to be reflex. Overall the only characters that have really been developed enough are snake and MK, and that's the problem with the game, people hear "oh this character has amazing projectile spam" or "this guy has ******** range and one of, if not the best special attack in the game." and they flock to the ones mentioned more and play them. While i love metaknight more than the rest of the characters, i'm working on improving my Marth and my Charizard just to possibly help develop the metagame around here. Though i will not be dropping Mk. Hopefully people aside from the random trolls, people that play mk, and the people who cry about him will read this here or elsewhere and grow up.
 
Nic64

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
MK is the most developed because he has the most flexible tool set of the entire cast. yeah, you can play other characters better than most people do, but that isn't going to offset their inherent disadvantage when you encounter a meta knight that knows what they're doing, so people interested in winning as much as possible aren't going to take that route. it's not as if other characters have no one playing them, even the lowest of the low tier have a lot of people maining them or playing them a lot(ganondorf is my most played character for instance, I'm still going to MK/Snake/Lucario in must win situations). "meta knight is only so great because his game is more developed" is dangerously close to just outright denying that the characters have advantages on each other at all.
 
brinboy789

brinboy789

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
2,684
Location
Suffolk, Long Island, NY
the brawl community, instead of actually finding ways to beat certain characters, and INSTEAD OF TURNING ON THEIR WII AND DOING SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE TO BEAT A CERTAIN CHARACTER, they just whine about it on SWF where instead they could be developing strategies against MK.
 
Nic64

Nic64

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Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
brinboy789 said:
the brawl community, instead of actually finding ways to beat certain characters, and INSTEAD OF TURNING ON THEIR WII AND DOING SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE TO BEAT A CERTAIN CHARACTER, they just whine about it on SWF where instead they could be developing strategies against MK.
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right, everyone who doesn't main MK is just lazy -_-
 
BanjoKazooiePro

BanjoKazooiePro

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
2,144
Location
Wisconsin
This doesn't make sense to me. Meta knight has ridiculous advantages over those characters, especially bowser. Bowser stands so little chance against meta knight it's scary. If you get grabbed by a bowser, that's fine, but I highly doubt that it's going to escalate into some massive death combo. Meta knight destroys bowser anywhere.
 
Vex Kasrani

Vex Kasrani

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
4,824
Location
Philadelphia, PA
BanjoKazooiePro said:
This doesn't make sense to me. Meta knight has ridiculous advantages over those characters, especially bowser. Bowser stands so little chance against meta knight it's scary. If you get grabbed by a bowser, that's fine, but I highly doubt that it's going to escalate into some massive death combo. Meta knight destroys bowser anywhere.
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.....ok worst possible match with MK vs Bowser is MK advantage 60:40

I'm not going to post in here anymore, especially since most people in here are being dumb(not completely directed at you banjokazooiepro).
 
LieutenantSerg

LieutenantSerg

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Joined
Aug 16, 2006
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1,229
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Hesperia CA
BanjoKazooiePro said:
This doesn't make sense to me. Meta knight has ridiculous advantages over those characters, especially bowser. Bowser stands so little chance against meta knight it's scary. If you get grabbed by a bowser, that's fine, but I highly doubt that it's going to escalate into some massive death combo. Meta knight destroys bowser anywhere.
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Yeah grabs dont lead to combos lol
 
Nintendevil

Nintendevil

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
910
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I'm still trying to figure that out...
It seems to me almost like People here are making MK matchups even on purpose. 60-40 bowser? Hell no. Miracles happen, like that classic Aniki beating Ken as Link match in Melee, but really. Bowser is at a much larger disadvantage than that. I know this is a real stretch but the more I talk to MK mains the more it seems like they're trying to dumb him down so he wont get banned.
 
Deoxys

Deoxys

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Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
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near Boston, MA
Nintendevil said:
It seems to me almost like People here are making MK matchups even on purpose. 60-40 bowser? Hell no. Miracles happen, like that classic Aniki beating Ken as Link match in Melee, but really. Bowser is at a much larger disadvantage than that. I know this is a real stretch but the more I talk to MK mains the more it seems like they're trying to dumb him down so he wont get banned.
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Did you know Bowser has a grab release CG against MK?
 
Deoxys

Deoxys

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near Boston, MA
Darxmarth23 said:
wow.

you really just ignored everything meta can do.

sad
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I hope you're not talking about me. In which case, it would have been a stupid waste of time to review what everyone knows already.

vyse said:
I've started a thread in the Diddy forums with the aim of proving or disproving whether or not Diddy can be a counter to Metaknight on more than Final Destination.

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=139

Call me n00b for thinking any character can even claim to have an advantage. But it needs t be discussed.
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Snake has an advantage against MK.
 
Nic64

Nic64

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Joined
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Messages
1,725
Deoxys said:
Snake has an advantage against MK.
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if he does it's very slight, I'd put it anywhere from 45:55 in either characters favor depending on the day really, snake has a huge advantage in how hard to kill he is and how well he kills MK, but is otherwise totally on the bad end of an *** reaming, the more I think about it the more difficulty I have putting it in either characters favor
 
Deoxys

Deoxys

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near Boston, MA
Nic64 said:
if he does it's very slight, I'd put it anywhere from 45:55 in either characters favor depending on the day really, snake has a huge advantage in how hard to kill he is and how well he kills MK, but is otherwise totally on the bad end of an *** reaming, the more I think about it the more difficulty I have putting it in either characters favor
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Inui's Snake goes even with M2K's MK, so that should tell you something about the matchup... Snake has great CPs against MK, too.

Slush said:
wow, thanks! I'm definitely using ZSS and Bowser from now on.
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If you're just doing it to beat MK, Snake is a great choice since he's the second best character anyway, and beats MK. Bowser is easier to master than Snake or ZSS, though, who are among the hardest characters to master I think....

Also, don't discount DK and Olimar. On their CP they do well against MK also.
 
8AngeL8

8AngeL8

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Dallas, TX
Higher on the tier list =/= easier to learn. Bowser moves and techs aren't super complicated, it just requires a crap load of practice to actually be able to win with him. Snake pretty much has an unlimited ceiling as far as what you can do, what with the mindgames of his explosives and all. It's easy to win with him, but hard to master him.
 
Vex Kasrani

Vex Kasrani

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8AngeL8 said:
Higher on the tier list =/= easier to learn. Bowser moves and techs aren't super complicated, it just requires a crap load of practice to actually be able to win with him. Snake pretty much has an unlimited ceiling as far as what you can do, what with the mindgames of his explosives and all. It's easy to win with him, but hard to master him.
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I honestly don't think so.
 
8AngeL8

8AngeL8

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Well, I guess it's a matter of opinion. All respect to you for getting good with Bowser. If you can win with him, you're instantly more B.A. than anyone who wins with MK. I guess it depends on how you define "hard to learn.:
 
N

neon..?

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
455
lol snake is easy to use. and most people pick chars that are higher on the tier list and they're metagame evolved more then low tier chars. lol i only heard of like 1 good bowser and one good zss. but i've heard of 1000000000 good snakes.
 
OverLade

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
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Tampa, FL
I can heavily support the ZSS matchup. It's fkn hard for Meta to get inside a camping ZSS. And Side B will kill meta at 100% even with DI. It's an annoying and frustrating matchup. Sadly no one plays ZSS.
 
Deoxys

Deoxys

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near Boston, MA
Vex Kasrani said:
Lol? Snake is much easier to learn then Bowser or ZSS
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Easier to learn =/= easier to master.

brinboy789 said:
isnt Snakeeee a really good ZSS?
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You mean "Snakeee" lol.

neon..? said:
lol snake is easy to use. and most people pick chars that are higher on the tier list and they're metagame evolved more then low tier chars. lol i only heard of like 1 good bowser and one good zss. but i've heard of 1000000000 good snakes.
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Again, use =/= master. Being "good" with Snake is about as easy as being "good" with MK. But mastering Snake is exponentially harder.

Vex Kasrani said:
I honestly don't think so.
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You don't think his ceiling is infinite, or you don't think he is extraordinarily difficult to master?
 
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