What does it take to be banned?

[Claire Diviner]

please don't talk about melee it's not related at all here

With all due respect, it is in the "Melee Discussion" section.

 

[Kal]

dude that's not true at all. If you're winning, you should be camping if you want to win. If you're losing, you need to bring the lead back. That will always apply regardless if you really want to win. The only difference that this makes is that winning via a time out (or as the smash community likes to say "gaying" people out) becomes much more difficult, it's discouraged, and also less likely to occur.

There's no reason not to do it except for the fact that people are used to 8 minutes and are afraid of change. 8 is too small for this game. It's 8 minutes in Melee, and those matches go by twice as fast.

This is true as a general rule. However, the point I'm making is that the timer is what determines how quickly you must try and bring the lead back. If you consider the scenario with infinite time, then you clearly see that the opponent has no more reason to approach when he's losing than when he's winning. Although a bit extreme, the fact still holds: the longer the timer, the more time the opponent has available to camp while he's not in the lead. Thus, when choosing a time, you want to pick a balance such that players have enough time to play, but not so much time that losing players can simply sit back and force a stand-off.

I'm not saying ten minutes is a bad time. I'm just saying that increasing the timer has negatives along with the positives. If the negatives are outweighed by the positives, then great. Otherwise, you'd go with the shorter timer.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well played, John.

Smooth Criminal

I got credits from Smooth. Shaweettt!!!

JohnCriminalknight1

Also, I mentioned Melee because I don't want a destructive pattern of rule changes happening because people don't like crap in Brawl to transfer over to Melee. I think there is (some) chance of that happening. I don't want both of my favorite competitive games to suffer from poor rules.

This is technically is the Melee Discussion, too. Hopefully that makes this thread Brawl n00b-proof...

 

[Teczer0]

With all due respect, it is in the "Melee Discussion" section.

Seeing as I have powers here, sounds about right.

Also, as a warning.

This is NOT to become a thread about the MK ban. If the original purpose of the thread gets derailed I have no problems closing this.

 

[JPOBS]

For me, the thing that should warrant a ban on any character, is if said character is broken by design, like Guilty Gear's Justice, or Mortal Kombat 3's Shao Khan/Motaro. Meta Knight isn't really broken, as people have found ways to beat him. It's that players, like Mew2King, have found ways to use him that happens to be really effective. At that point, it's up to their opponents to study ways to combat their strategies. It's not like it's impossible either.

Also, what about Fox in Melee? I hear when mastered, he's nigh untouchable. No one complains about Fox users. Is it because he's hard to master? I see that as a double standard, since I'm sure if all Fox mains decide to take the time to master him completely and dedicate the dexterity and reflexes needed into muscle memory, people will start to cry foul then too.

Rambling ends here...

Because, theory craft aside, Foxs don't win tournaments.

thats all that really matters.

 

[Massive]

Seeing as I have powers here, sounds about right.

Also, as a warning.

This is NOT to become a thread about the MK ban. If the original purpose of the thread gets derailed I have no problems closing this.

I'm surprised you haven't closed this already, actually.

The topic of the thread has been discussed, but it's been mostly brawl-related drama with little to no melee content for pages.

 

[JPOBS]

Man, I hate it when threads get closed just because its "off topic"

There is GREAT discussion going on in here, but to close the thread just because we may be dabbling in brawl discussion seems kinda fascist to me.

 

[Pi]

^yea you kinda have to instruct the mods on how to use their better judgement
but do it so they still feel like they have authority and power, otherwise they'll flex and things will suck

 

[Teczer0]

I'm fine as long as doesn't devolve into MK is banned and he should/shouldn't be.

If its about banning in general w/e

 

[Kal]

Man, I hate it when threads get closed just because its "off topic"

There is GREAT discussion going on in here, but to close the thread just because we may be dabbling in brawl discussion seems kinda fascist to me.

Such is the problem when you don't pay your mods to do remedial work. Regardless, I think Teczero is a fair enough moderator and he just means this topic shouldn't change to a discussion about whether MK should be banned.

 

[ph00tbag]

ITT: People acting like tournament attendance isn't what determines a ruleset's viability.

For the record, if I thought Brawl were worth playing even with MK banned, I'd be more likely to play the game with him banned. I guess that means I support the MK ban.

 

[Teczer0]

Jpobs I'm fine if your discussion uses examples or something from the brawl community as well. I'm not saying there can be no mentioning of brawl. That's fine as long as your goal is talking about the op of this thread.

Didn't mean to make it sound like that if did I apologize.

 

[Ripple]

Impractical perhaps, but still technically possible, which is the point. A moot point? Maybe. But a point nonetheless.

no, it's not technically possible.

 

[JPOBS]

Jpobs I'm fine if your discussion uses examples or something from the brawl community as well. I'm not saying there can be no mentioning of brawl. That's fine as long as your goal is talking about the op of this thread.

Didn't mean to make it sound like that if did I apologize.

Its ok, it wasn't my intentions to directly attack you either. I meant moderation in general suffers from these problems. "Fascist" might have been too strong of a word to use. My apologies.

Now lets get back to talk about bans and such.

 

[Mew2King]

With all due respect, it is in the "Melee Discussion" section.

LOOOOOOOOOOL OooPS

 

[ShroudedOne]

TL;DR version of this thread:

Brawl sucks. Our community is old and the decisions we make about our ruleset are done to appease the remaining players left. Too many walls of text that no one is going to read because no one gives a **** what you think.

"Oh, look at all of these posts and walls of texts! I bet no one cares about them." *goes to post in thread*

I'm not sure I see the point. So if no one is going to read it, your point goes unnoticed. If someone IS going to read it, then...you're wrong. Going into a thread and saying, "This thread is pointless, too many walls of texts" doesn't...do...anything.

Banning Pichu would be the ultimate troll the Melee Community could make to Brawl's.

I support this immensely. Pichu is a godawful character that breaks the game with his cuteness and ability to draw women over to your TV. Ban him immediately.

 

[Mew2King]

ban diddy in melee

 

[Kal]

As one of the few players who actually uses Pichu, please don't joke. I use him every chance I get. One tournament I took him all the way to grand finals (no, my opponents were not very good). In grand finals the opponent beat me twice so I switched to Marth. It should be noted that I got one ****ing awesome death combo on the opponent's Falco.

However, save for the above cruelty towards Pichu, I think ShroudedOne is my favorite poster. Those Ohio ****ers should get you a cookie.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

going into a thread and saying that going into a thread and saying, "This thread is pointless, too many walls of texts" doesn't do anything, doesn't do anything either


this is nothing

 

[Smooth Criminal]

WHERE'S MY LOVE, KAL?!

Smooth Criminal

 

[Kal]

Ron, he's not the one going into threads and criticizing players for writings walls of text. His point does do something: it points out that there is no point in simply coming in and criticizing walls of text. If no one reads it, who cares? But if someone does read it, then it's not pointless.

Smooth Criminal, I dropped a name reference earlier. But I just don't like Michael Jackson that much.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

max's point does something too


i'd want to come into this thread with a nice summary of the kind of useless discussion that has occurred over the past 29 pages, so i don't go looking around with expectations that would have yet to be disappointed

 

[Zodiac]

I see a lot "the brawl community is whiny/lazy/stupid etc... and that's why meta knight was banned" And a lot of "We melee players don't ***** about over powered characters" Well the reason we don't is because we don't have anyone in the melee roster that is as outright overpowered as meta knight is. I still consider him border line banable and don't really have an official stand on it but. If we were the brawl community you can bet we would be *****ing about a character that much better than the rest of the cast.

but for what it takes to be banned? Akuma...

 

[Spelt]

lol @ an mk ban discussion going on in melee general.

All of you guys seems to show a lot of interest in brawl for saying you could care less about the game and don't matter what happens.

also lol x2 at people taking m2k seriously.
He's only gonna do whatever it takes to make it easier for him to make money.
If he could get a committee together in favor of banning jigglypuff/mango he would.

He doesn't care about the community or the health of the metagame's for either smash.

 

[Zajice]

I'm so sad that I just found this thread.

Oh boy, this'll be fun~

 

[Mew2King]

Wow that's entirely not true, in fact, I've been helping people since years before I started tournaments. Have you heard about the SSBM Statistics list I made? I spent like 1000-2000 hours making that

 

[Spelt]

Wow that's entirely not true, in fact, I've been helping people since years before I started tournaments. Have you heard about the SSBM Statistics list I made? I spent like 1000-2000 hours making that

Highlighted the important part here.
It was made 8 years ago.

 

[Mew2King]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30064

I've dedicated half of my life to the Smash bros series, and I wouldn't say anything that I don't believe is true. You don't know me and all and you shouldn't make assumptions and false accusations like that

 

[Spelt]

I still don't understand how linking to a thread made 8 years ago that's barely even inline with my point disproves anything.

 

[Mew2King]

I basically am saying that I dedicated half of my life to smash. I care more about smash and the smash series than ANYONE else. I wouldn't do something just to benefit me. There are so many countless times that Chu and PC were in the finals with me and I had a set advantage and I just split with them. I've loaned thousands out to players that I'm trying to help (about 4000 still needs to be paid back to me). I studied melee and brawl in and out, and I'm always going around helping people all the time and I have been (usually through AIM, especially years ago) for almost the entire time I've been playing. You don't know anything about me at all and you shouldn't say ignorant things like that because it isn't true at all

 

[Claire Diviner]

Alright, guys, let's uhhh... try to down the flames here a bit and be a bit more civil, shall we?

 

[JPOBS]

He doesn't care about the the health of the metagame's for either smash.

I honestly don't see why he should.
In fact, I don't see why the "health of the metagame" matters at all. If its a good game worth playing, people wil play it
If its a terrible game which is overcentralized by one dominant character, I don't see why him (or anyone) would care about it.
if the game you play doesn't have a healthy and sustainable enough metagame as it is, maybe you should consider playing other games.
"Health of the metagame" argument is a load of horse ****
edit:Lol at saying the foremost, most ground breaking and innovative player in your game, doesn't care about the metagame.

M2k IS the brawl metagame.

 

[Spelt]

I honestly don't see why he should.

Yeah. Why would a top player care about the game of which he gets money from?

In fact, I don't see why the "health of the metagame" matters at all. If its a good game worth playing, people wil play it.

People do play brawl.

If its a terrible game which is overcentralized by one dominant character, I don't see why him (or anyone) would care about it.

One character's overcentralization doesn't automatically equate to it being a terrible game.
Get that melee bias **** out of here.

insert list of other competitive games which have banned elements here.

If the game you play doesn't have a healthy and sustainable enough metagame as it is, maybe you should consider playing other games.

Yeah, maybe we should all unban items and select stages and play it like it was meant to be. Right?

"Health of the metagame" argument is a load of horse ****

Ironic.

 

[JPOBS]

Check my edit.

also, thats not what ironic means.

 

[Spelt]

Why should i have to put in more effort because you can't keep your thoughts straight?

M2k IS the brawl metagame.

lol this is a huge exaggeration.
You could say he IS the mk metagame but even that's a bit much.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Spelt trolling hard in here. =/

C'mon, man.

Smooth Criminal

 

[JPOBS]

Why should i have to put in more effort because you can't keep your thoughts straight?

I think you're missing the point I'm making.
I asked, why *should* m2k care about the "health" metagame.

The fact that he happens to push the metagame because he wants to be the best is a side effect of being the best.

I don't see any reason why he should care about the "health" of the metagame, but you seem to remark that as a negative character trait.

 

[Spelt]

Yeah except that has nothing to do with what i'm saying.

1st sentence is common sense and I never even argued against it?

He should care about the "health" of the metagame because he plays the game.
deeeerp.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Can't you guys stop arguing over M2K and Meta Knight? The idea of this thread is to discuss what exactly merits banning a character, and all I see is "M2K this", and "Meta Knight that". You guys are just asking for this thread to close. >.>

 

[JPOBS]

So M2k should care about the "health of the metagame" because he plays the game. and therefore, he should support the banning of his main character, so that the metagame can be healthy, even tho he can no longer play the game at his best.

Yup. Makes sense.