What causes Captain Falcon to lose?

[Rage.]

Im not saying Captain Falcon is good against Falco or Fox or anyone else
im just saying that his main disadvatages CAN and ephisize CAN be avoided
the only good match ups im really saying is Falcon Vs Peach
Marth Vs Falcon is decent
and some people think Sheik is decent Vs Falcon

but like G-Reg said
you have to be good and constantly combo your opponent
which is what a good Falcon will do

 

[Pat/Pro]

No one thinks that falcon has a decent matchup vs shiek.

 

[kamikaze falco]

you have to tech chase combo everyone before they can kil you. the quicker you can complete combos without ****ing up, the better a chance you have against everyone. against really smart and good high tier players, you basically have to combo them nearly the entire match to have any shot of winning.

That is what I try doing. I play defensive until I got a shot and than i try to combo them and not let go because if i screw up who knows when i'll get another chance. Sure combo's are VERY important. But to all those who forgot about the number 1 important thing in smash is kill your opponent ASAP! And falcon too has a decent shot against sheik.

 

[deadleather]

I think FOD fawks Captian over, unless you read ur opponent well. Those short platforms **** his knee. I think that fox fuks him over too, with the stupid shine. And yes, many ppl have said it, but his recovery sucks donkey's banana

 

[TheManaLord]

Ill get Manalord to agree with me

What? Why was I mentioned? I don't even know you o_O I was just browsing this topic and I saw my name randomly >_> Who are you and why would you want me to agree with you?




After briefly reading the topic, I'm going to have to disagree with you

Although it's against what all Falcon players like to admit, Falcon's worst matchups are the upper and top tiers, with only a few matchups on certain stages being remotely even.



So yeah, this topic blowz.

 

[Rage.]

Oh I just saw you say one time that you thought that falcon
was decent against Sheik

and Im btk Ace
I just got a new account cause my other was being gay

 

[technomancer]

Falcon is only good against Shiek until Sheik figures out how to deal with whatever BS you came up with to get around whatever gay BS she started with, and if you never mess up ever.

Peach vs. Falcon is fairly even, and Darkrain is pro peach killer #1 so yeahuzz. Bla Bla Bla Peach's priority whatever, if you're having trouble with Peach work on your combos, get faster and get mindgames, stomp her when she's on the ground and whatever you want in the air and apply some pressure and don't get gayed or knocked off the stage.

And if you ever want to see someone get *****, watch a Falcon vs. Marth fight. Dunno who, but someone's gonna get *****.

 

[halfDemon]

And if you ever want to see someone get *****, watch a Falcon vs. Marth fight. Dunno who, but someone's gonna get *****.

Lol. That's so true.

Falcon does not have an "advantage" versus any character above him on the tier list. He may be decent against Marth and Peach, which is very stage specific, but that's it. Top and high tier easily ***** Falcon unless he ***** them first... for the whole match.

 

[TheManaLord]

Yes, it's a who ***** who first match. Comebacks are tough with falcon at high tier level D:

 

[Mars-]

Bad recovery causes him to lose. If he gets hit off, he is dead.

 

[Rage.]

And if you ever want to see someone get *****, watch a Falcon vs. Marth fight. Dunno who, but someone's gonna get *****.

So true
thats also a good quote

 

[choknater]

edit: omg wrong thread. sorry i'll make a better post later. this was supposed to be on the over 9000 thread LOL

alright edit again, the real deal: some of you were talking about combos being totally essentian because falcon is so easily gimped. just a tip: once a player is technically sound, he should know when and when not to use attacks on someone when predicting their move. falcon's pressure game usually forces people to do certain things (like roll or double jump to get out of combos) which gives you easy knees or fsmashes.

these two moves are falcon's FRIEND. if i had to choose between crazy a$$ darkrain **** (nair nair nair knee) or just one knee, i'd pick just one knee. i'm not darkrain. the best way to keep falcon from dying, obviously, is to not get hit. darkrain does it by staying PERFECTLY aggressive. SS does it by having, well, godlike mindgames and setting up everything into fsmash. isai does it by spamming and being random, and using advanced ssb64 mindgames which catch everybody.

don't get hit, set up knee, set up elbow. if falcon's dying by lag, then that's lack of mindgammez, too bad for the falcon.


------
IMO, only really advanced players will EVER do well with falcon. there are few out there which actually place, which is why rivalries are so prevalent.

 

[MikeMoney]

Marth's Fsmash Dilt and Grab

Fox's Shine

Falco's Dair

Sheiks Needles and Fair

 

[Kimosabae]

IMO, a big reason Falcons lose are Falcon players insane proclivities to do stupid things with the character.

Something about the flexibilty the character gives you, causes players to become over-confindent with him at the wrong moments. I've seen every Falcon player fall victim to this tendency, from FL scrubs to Isai (though Isai definitely has the smartest Falcon I've seen).

Winning with Falcon is an exercise in restraint, but it's so d@mn hard cause the character's so fun.

-SynikaL

 

[Nick Nasty]

A few wrong decisions or technical errors can easily cost Falcon the game.

Nafix is about right. When it comes down to it, it's not really CF's strengths/weaknesses that cause him to lose, but the player's mistakes during the crucial parts of the match.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

Kimosabae had the best post in this thread, and it's very true.

 

[Kimosabae]

BTW, scratch what I said about Isai having the smartest Falcon: that title definitely goes to Azen. I almost forgot about him.

While Isai probably has the most complete (or best, or whatever you want to call it) Falcon, Azen's preference of not placing high value on technical skill allows him to practice restraint better than players that main him.


-SynikaL

 

[shadydentist]

Just ask yourself, how many lives (or matches) have you lost because you went for the falcon punch?

For me, far too many.

 

[Ghostype]

Wow wow wow, I must admit that I do stupid **** very consistently with Captain Falcon. At least twice a match now I attempt returning to the stage with a knee, killing any actual chance I had of making my back on; just because it looks cool. I'm also prone to reverse off the stage Falcon Punches and over reaching for off the stage knee edge guards. But it's all so worth it if it works.

Like, last night I started a match with a double knee on a Fox that killed him with only 35%; because he didn't expect something so stupid. So worth it.

 

[flaco]

Yo.

I was just thumbin around here, and thought I'd throw a random question out here. Might be helpful for CapFal players who want to know what NOT to do.

But in general, what causes CapFal to lose?

Like, what causes for an "disadvantaged" fight?

I dont really want details, as im not trying to build an anti CapFal strategy or anything. Just morbid curiosity.

the answer it might be is just like the tier list but again captain falcon has some disadvantages for example fast faller and bad recovery also I say again the tier list does matter thats why is there sheik and marth is a bad match for him I main marth and secondary is captain falcon is really hard to beat a mrth and sheik with captain falcon

 

[that 1 guy]

I was pretty sure I heard the consensus in the marth vs falcon matchup was that it was slightly in falcons favor (due to the whole dash dance then I punish your whiff and now it's crazy combo time).

 

[JFox]

I'm pretty sure that the level Marth has gotten to in late 06, and now 07, by none other than m2k has put Falcon at the disadvantage against Marth. Unfortunately, there really aren't any Falcons at m2k's level now that Isai has somewhat abondoned Falcon/SSBM.(although they have played and m2k wins)

Because Falcon has some limited options, and Marth takes advantage of errors so well, its virtually impossible not to make any. And its so easy for marth to just throw Falcon off the stage and cover every possible escape route. So far, Marths just havent stepped their game up as high as they can, but I think its going to happen soon enough. Falcon has no where to go but straight down on the tier list.

I know no one is gonna believe what I say because they haven't experienced m2k yet, but time will tell. If this game continues as it should after SSBB, there will be no one who can disagree with me.

 

[straight8]

I really think marth is bad for falcon becuase marth has a sword that can mess up falcon's ombos so easily. And if the marth can DI really well and isn't stunned in the air, it isreally hard for a falcon to do any combination of airs or raptor boosts.

 

[TheManaLord]

Not... really... it's called "l-cancelling"

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Marth's backthrow or f-throw to wavedashed f-smash sending you off the stage..chances of recovery are now less than 10% due to marth and his long sword.

Luckily, the brilliant game designers added "wallteching" to the game.

Fox - Definitely in Fox's favor
Falco - Definitely in Falco's favor
Sheik - Definitely in Sheik's favor
Marth - Arguably even, depending on stage
Peach - Definitely in Peach's favor

Where do you disagree?

Falco - Definitely in Falco's favor
Sheik - Arguably even. Most competent Falcons I've seen go even with sheiks. Guaranteed combos are not bad at all, especially against Sheik.
Marth - Marth loses to Falcon. Not by a whole lot, but some things of Falcon just *work* on Marth, in a big way. Lightshield edgeguarding, throw to knees, a better dashdance, chainthow if no DI and nair if DI'd, backair edgeguard, etc.
Peach - chainthrowing alone doesn't win peach the match. I definitely disagree with Peach beating Falcon. She has a good edgeguard on him, true, but who doesn't? It's something Falcon has to deal with nonetheless.

....wtf?
Captain falcon is great against peach
a lot consider hom a peach counter.
Marth is terrible against Falcon
Falcon is one of sheiks only even match ups
All falcos have are SHL which is easily avoidble
Fox's shine is the only thing he has on falcon, being able to wave shine a falcon perfeclty every time is almost impossible.

and 56k
saying Ice Climbers can chaingrab falcon isnt saying anything
they can chain grab everyone

Falco's shl isn't easily avoidable >.> . Falco can shine-dair combo Falcon, did you forget about that? Til around 60%. Not bad. Ledgehopped edgeguards from Falco **** falcon.

Fox has lots of crap on Falcon, including one of the best combos in the game: Nair to ****. This includes but is not limited to nair-jab/nair-grab/nair-shine-jab/nair-shine-grab-****/nair-shine-usmash/nair-shine-drillshine-**** ... etc.

The shine gays Falcon... but not as much as everyone seems to think. Being a fastfaller, Falcon falls prey to lots of Fox's regular combos. Ledgehop bair edgeguard destroys falcon. =)

 

[technomancer]

M2K is ****ing ridiculous don't bring him into this lol, if M2K played Falcon I'm sure you could bump Marth down on the tier list.

I really think marth is bad for falcon becuase marth has a sword that can mess up falcon's ombos so easily. And if the marth can DI really well and isn't stunned in the air, it isreally hard for a falcon to do any combination of airs or raptor boosts.

Agreed w/ ManaLord. CF can combo Marth to 50% or so with grabs and mixups and mindgames pretty easily irregardless of DI and from there has several gaurenteed ways to knee, the major deciding factor is whether or not the Falcon is good enough to pull it all off.

Falcon also has EXCELLENT approaches vs. Marth, moreso than any other non-projectile character in my opinion (also more than Samus Lol), and can force marth to be aggressive (B-E aggressive), with good out of shield and spacing options (raptor boost, WD grabs, shieldhopped aerials, dashdancing).

 

[straight8]

when you get over 50%, marth can sometimes use is sword in the air before you can land a hit. If you watch falcon vs. marth videos you'll see what I mean.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Yes. But note also that Falcon does the same thing, but his moves punish marth more severely.

 

[thechunkylover]

People that play better than you. Think about it if you know how to avoid other character's specifics and use your pros against their cons you have the win.

 

[Thino]

fox's shine..definitely
space animals are easy to combo , but once they combo you , they can **** falcon pretty badly
peach is also a bad matchup
falcon can handle marth if he doesnt simply rock into mordor jump into the ****

 

[Cups]

Sheik ***** Falcon. . .always. The only thing that a CF can do is spam grabs for the possibility of a combo. Maybe, if you are good with the nair you can combo off of it but every one of Sheik's moves outprioritizes it, every one, so your timing has to be solid. Mainly though, I've noticed that Falcon either gets ***** or *****, depending on the stock. That's why most Falcon matches last like two to three minutes, because they are filled with high percentage combos on both ends. I'd like to say that Falcon is close to even with every one, but some have certain advantages and slight disadvantages. It all depends on style, it seems agressive Falcons get owned by Sheiks, but more calculating ones do just fine. So yes, it comes down to style, but I think the ones above him on the list have a slight edge.

Just reminding every one again: the tier list is based on usage and placing in tournaments, not by the actual programming of the game.

 

[straight8]

All of sheiks moves have priority over falcons, and sheik can chainthrow a falcon at higher percentages. If you're asuming that the skill of he players is equal, sheik should win. Fox definitley has an advantage over falcon cause of his speed (even though you could say falcon has a faster dash) and his upsmash and such. Falco is good against falcon because of shine combos and shl.

And I think falco kills peach. She does have air priority, but falcon is faster and can grab + knee her.

 

[BoomStick]

Space animals arent that big of a problem if you know what you are doing
Falcos SHL Is a little hard to get past but if you keep comboing the falco its easy
Foxs Shine is also tough to get past but if you dont do reckless things then it should be
easy to avoid

Seriously...lol...


I'm not even done...Falco's lasers are nowhere near as bad as fox's shine..Near perfect space animals are absolutely ****..the ONLY saving grace for falcon is not his combos against them, it's tech chasing.

 

[Taalcon]

My opinion for the one of the BIGGEST reasons that Falcon loses is because of his high reliance on mindgames and combos. Although his air priority is okay, top tiers have higher air priority. Although all the other top tiers have mindgames, their mindgames are not as essential as they are for Falcon. Technical mistakes lead to crappy recovery which leads to -1 stock, but I feel that the largest reason of Falcon loses is because of his reliance on mindgames, which I'm sorry to say, the average Falcon player does not have a great grasp of.

 

[DOOM KINGHT--Rain kaze--]

recovery time
attack time is slow (falcon punch)
can be attack easliy (like when doing the dragon uppercut)
quickly flyes of stage
moves to fast at certain stages

 

[Taalcon]

recovery time
attack time is slow (falcon punch)
can be attack easliy (like when doing the dragon uppercut)
quickly flyes of stage
moves to fast at certain stages

If you think his attack time is slow, then you use all of his ground attacks too much.
Well, if you think it's easy to attack him when he's doing his >B, then it must be a sinch to catch Fox/Falco out of their >B =p
God, what gave you the idea that Falcon is lightweight?
and moves too fast at certain stages?...wtf?

not that I have anything against you or something, but these are all horrible reasons. You can find within these reasons, I guarantee you that I can use any one of these reasons against ANY character in SSBM (mostly the "can be attack easily" one XD)

 

[RedYoshi92]

what causes falcon to lose is

1.Recovery is kinda bad.
2.can be vulnerable to long range from a distance if off the stage
3.edgegaurded easily.

thats what I can think of right now.

 

[cyberdemon]

what causes falcon to lose is

1.Recovery is kinda bad.
2.no projectiles.
3.edgegaurded easily.

thats what I can think of right now.

Projectiles aren't that important.
Most characters don't have them, and that doesn't mean they're bad because of that.

 

[Vall3y]

what i wish falcon had was like a sex kick move that he can jump out of shield with or beat people around him quick. uair doesnt cover the front, nair doesnt have the knockback\priority and fair doesnt work in these situations. something like sheik's nair, you know?

i dont know what a move it could replace though. maybe down b lol.

 

[Reese]

I know exactly what you mean vall3y. Everytime someone is in my face with falcon I always end up shielding and just short hopping away lol. He has no 'get-off me' move.

edit : omg falcon should get falco's shine to replace his down b lol.