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What are your unpopular gaming opinions?

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SimonBarSinister

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Kim, I respect you, and imma let you finish, but the GCN had some of the best graphics of it's time.

No, seriously. Anyone who seriously complains about the GCNs graphics never saw RE4 running side by side with the PS2 version. ****, I still think RE4 is one of the best looking games I've ever played ten years later.
This is something I can wholeheartedly agree with. The GCN had some fantastic graphics for its games, and they were only running on those small 1.5GB discs, which is pretty impressive.


To be fair, you could also totally strip Naked Snake down and play through the entire game as the sexiest man ever rendered by a computer shirtless.


Shulk says hello.:troll:

Unpopular opinion - I'm glad they removed the swimsuit option for Lyn (Lin?) in XCX. A bikini option for a thirteen year old girl.... while thirteen year old girls most certainly wear bikinis, I have a feeling the developers' intentions were less innocent.
Possibly, but I thought she was fine as she was(not that I'd care too much either way). But then again, I'm a dude that likes chicks so that might sway my opinion a little. Maybe. Anyway, I'll still be getting the game regardless of what little nitpicks I have, which are essentially nonexistent.
 

Kurri ★

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Unpopular opinion - I'm glad they removed the swimsuit option for Lyn (Lin?) in XCX. A bikini option for a thirteen year old girl.... while thirteen year old girls most certainly wear bikinis, I have a feeling the developers' intentions were less innocent.
That was an option?
 

Iceweasel

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That was an option?
...You never played XBC, did you? Your armor choices show up on your character. That's where the swimsuit Shulk comes from. Nintendo has recently decided that all that progress they were making to be taken seriously by the gaming public (for example, not releasing censored translations, or translations including memes that are years old by the time the game launches) should go straight down the toilet. After the Triforce Heroes BS, the Fatal Frame BS, and a probably BS Western release of XBX, I don't think I've ever wished more strongly that I could obtain, play, and understand the Japanese version.

I can't wait for Nintendo to finally go under, because then they might sell their IPs to people who know what to do with them. I'm sure somebody can do something useful with Metroid or F-Zero, and I know that some studio can make another decent Zelda game. I'm sure Monolith Soft can make another good Xenogame. I'm sure they already have, but Nintendo really screwed them over with the translation team on this one.
 

Substitution

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I don't know, I can't say them removing a thirteen year old's bikini (which was already water hot under by fans in the first place) completely kills the game. Same thing with the Fatal Frame incident.
Whoop-dee-freaking doo, some pointless elements that mean nothing were altered. Truly this is the death of a beloved company.

I don't get it with some people. It's almost like if everything isn't perfect it's all wrong somehow. Like, the Fatal Frame scene is a visual change at best, TFH is one screen of dialogue, and you may not even notice the one with Xenoblade. And yet somehow they completely eclipse all the good the games have done (or in Xenoblade's case will do).

But if they keep them in, the other side would be in an uproar for allowing this. Making effectively a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario (in Triforce Heroes case no one would probably care). And it just becomes a muddled mess that shouldn't be there in the first place.


Edit: Edit because I made an ass of myself again.
 
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SimonBarSinister

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...You never played XBC, did you? Your armor choices show up on your character. That's where the swimsuit Shulk comes from. Nintendo has recently decided that all that progress they were making to be taken seriously by the gaming public (for example, not releasing censored translations, or translations including memes that are years old by the time the game launches) should go straight down the toilet. After the Triforce Heroes BS, the Fatal Frame BS, and a probably BS Western release of XBX, I don't think I've ever wished more strongly that I could obtain, play, and understand the Japanese version.

I can't wait for Nintendo to finally go under, because then they might sell their IPs to people who know what to do with them. I'm sure somebody can do something useful with Metroid or F-Zero, and I know that some studio can make another decent Zelda game. I'm sure Monolith Soft can make another good Xenogame. I'm sure they already have, but Nintendo really screwed them over with the translation team on this one.
That's a pretty harsh thing to say. I can agree that censorship of any kind shouldn't exist across all regions, but I can't say that I'd wish that a developer would go under because of it. I don't believe that kind of decision is so severe that it requires the public to go up in arms about it. At most it's a minor aesthetics censoring that ultimately won't change how the game works. That said, I'd rather they keep their character designs as they originally intended too, but what are you gonna do?
 

Kurri ★

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...You never played XBC, did you? Your armor choices show up on your character. That's where the swimsuit Shulk comes from. Nintendo has recently decided that all that progress they were making to be taken seriously by the gaming public (for example, not releasing censored translations, or translations including memes that are years old by the time the game launches) should go straight down the toilet. After the Triforce Heroes BS, the Fatal Frame BS, and a probably BS Western release of XBX, I don't think I've ever wished more strongly that I could obtain, play, and understand the Japanese version.

I can't wait for Nintendo to finally go under, because then they might sell their IPs to people who know what to do with them. I'm sure somebody can do something useful with Metroid or F-Zero, and I know that some studio can make another decent Zelda game. I'm sure Monolith Soft can make another good Xenogame. I'm sure they already have, but Nintendo really screwed them over with the translation team on this one.
Well I haven't, but I did know armor choices were reflected on the actual character. But a Bikini isn't exactly the same thing as underwear, and I completely understand why they removed it. She's 13, no need to sexualize her like that.

Considering the gaming public is generally a joke, I'm glad they're not trying to be taken seriously

What happened with Triforce Heroes?
 
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finalark

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the Fatal Frame BS
I like the Nintendo costumes more than the stupid fan servicey costumes.

Honestly, though, people act like removing the completely optional, secret, unlockable costumes somehow ruins the game. This is bull**** when you consider that Nintendo left the rest of the game untouched. Might I mention that suicide is a major theme of Fatal Frame V, there are many, many on-screen depictions of the subject, one of the characters is a product of brother-sister incest which the English version doesn't even try to hide, lesbian overtones everywhere, cats and dogs living together. Nintendo left everything that actually matters to the game in and the thing that you're upset about is swapping hentai bikini's for the zero suit?



Shulk says hello.:troll:
Shulk has that youthful energy and positive attitude, not to mention them toned abs but my main man Naked Snake is pure testosterone but with an incredibly lovable dorky side. I just can't not love him.

On the note of attractive male characters, am I the only one who thought that MGS5's Ocelot had a silver fox thing going on with his friendly demeanor, calming voice and sly appearance?
 

Bluekirby2

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...You never played XBC, did you? Your armor choices show up on your character. That's where the swimsuit Shulk comes from. Nintendo has recently decided that all that progress they were making to be taken seriously by the gaming public (for example, not releasing censored translations, or translations including memes that are years old by the time the game launches) should go straight down the toilet. After the Triforce Heroes BS, the Fatal Frame BS, and a probably BS Western release of XBX, I don't think I've ever wished more strongly that I could obtain, play, and understand the Japanese version.

I can't wait for Nintendo to finally go under, because then they might sell their IPs to people who know what to do with them. I'm sure somebody can do something useful with Metroid or F-Zero, and I know that some studio can make another decent Zelda game. I'm sure Monolith Soft can make another good Xenogame. I'm sure they already have, but Nintendo really screwed them over with the translation team on this one.
This post was so edgy that I was considering posting nothing but a link to Live and Learn.

But yeah, I think you overreacted a bit there. If you think Nintendo should go under because you can't see an underage girl in a bikini, I think maybe you should question your morals.
 

SimonBarSinister

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This post was so edgy that I was considering posting nothing but a link to Live and Learn.

But yeah, I think you overreacted a bit there. If you think Nintendo should go under because you can't see an underage girl in a bikini, I think maybe you should question your morals.
This made me laugh.

EDIT: finalark finalark
I can't imagine any character related to Snake having a dorky side to them, but I've never played the game, so what do I know?
 
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finalark

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EDIT: finalark finalark
I can't imagine any character related to Snake having a dorky side to them, but I've never played the game, so what do I know?
Metal Gear is one of the stupidest series I've ever played and Big Boss, his family tree and all their friends are some of the biggest dorks in video games.

And that's why I can't stop playing this glorious, glorious series. Shine on you crazy ******* Hideo Kojima.
 
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Twewy

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EDIT: finalark finalark
I can't imagine any character related to Snake having a dorky side to them, but I've never played the game, so what do I know?
Let me put it this way: Big Boss believes in Santa Claus, his CO is a big 007 nerd, his medical advisor is a movie buff who ends up giving him nightmares because of his phobia of vampires (She wouldn't shut up about Dracula) and he believes the cardboard box is the best thing ever.

Honestly, though, people act like removing the completely optional, secret, unlockable costumes somehow ruins the game. This is bull**** when you consider that Nintendo left the rest of the game untouched. Might I mention that suicide is a major theme of Fatal Frame V, there are many, many on-screen depictions of the subject, one of the characters is a product of brother-sister incest which the English version doesn't even try to hide, lesbian overtones everywhere, cats and dogs living together. Nintendo left everything that actually matters to the game in and the thing that you're upset about is swapping hentai bikini's for the zero suit?
If I'm remembering right, people are upset at the way NoA handled Fatal Frame in general. Apparently the voice acting is RE1 tier and they decided they needed to use "Super Spoopy!" to advertise the game on Youtube, which pissed off a lot of people. It didn't help that the person who uploaded the video onto Ninty's channel bragged about it on Twitter, or something.

TL;DR: People mad because NoA aren't handling Fatal Frame well.
 
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Iceweasel

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Well I haven't, but I did know armor choices were reflected on the actual character. But a Bikini isn't exactly the same thing as underwear, and I completely understand why they removed it. She's 13, no need to sexualize her like that.
Shulk, visually speaking, doesn't that much older than your typical anime shota. If you took away the abs, he'd look about 14-ish (and still kinda does with them). So tell me: Why is it okay for Shulk to be in a swimsuit that you described as "underwear", but not okay for a female character who looks to be about the same age to be wearing a bikini? Why would you care what a collection of triangles is wearing in the first place?

Considering the gaming public is generally a joke, I'm glad they're not trying to be taken seriously
If the gaming community is such a joke, why are you still a part of it? Nobody is making you go to Smashboards.

I like the Nintendo costumes more than the stupid fan servicey costumes.
Why not both?

Honestly, though, people act like removing the completely optional, secret, unlockable costumes somehow ruins the game. This is bull**** when you consider that Nintendo left the rest of the game untouched. Might I mention that suicide is a major theme of Fatal Frame V, there are many, many on-screen depictions of the subject, one of the characters is a product of brother-sister incest which the English version doesn't even try to hide, lesbian overtones everywhere, cats and dogs living together. Nintendo left everything that actually matters to the game in and the thing that you're upset about is swapping hentai bikini's for the zero suit?
You've just outlined one of my biggest problems with censorship: The headscratching double standards. So the Moral Guardians have determined that X is so damaging to Y, nobody can see it. But all of these other things that could be seen as just as bad, if not more, are left alone because of reasons.


Well ****, I guess I can see why Nintendo should go under /s
Yeah, **** immersion!

But yeah, I think you overreacted a bit there. If you think Nintendo should go under because you can't see an underage girl in a bikini, I think maybe you should question your morals.
Good thing that's not what I said. I called attention to Nintendo not knowing what to do with Zelda, Metroid, or F-Zero. There's also the matter of other changes made to XBX, like changing the name of the mecha from the ironic Dolls to the tryhard Skells. And this is what I've picked up by trying to avoid anything that sounds like it might be potentially spoilery. There's an old thread about what Nintendo has done to annoy its customers. I've made several posts in that. I advise that you either address a specific argument from somebody instead of taking it and attempting to extrapolate their entire position from it, or that you actually learn their entire position on something before attacking it.

I will also advise that you question your morals, sicne you seem to think that a collection of triangles shaped into a crude facsimile of a human should be given the considerations a human would get. It's a fictional story, and it's not even told with real actors. Whatever the characters wear (or what the players put on them) is part of their characterization, and as such should be left alone. No form of censorship is ever okay.

http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:45398 Here's an example of the crap this same translation studio pulled with Awakening, as well as a few more changes to XBX. If you've ever so much as heard of Xenogears, Xenosaga, or even to an extent Xenoblade, you know what a moronic decision censoring the religious references is.
 
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Substitution

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Yes, the three, really minuscule things truly bring down those games eh? Truly this is the worst thing about Nintendo and why they should die. Not because of the gameplay, nor the story, nor really anything the general public would give a **** about. But the small often overlooked details are the final nails in the coffin. Because that's how the world works.

If that's not an overreaction for something so petty I don't know what is.
 
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finalark

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You've just outlined one of my biggest problems with censorship: The headscratching double standards. So the Moral Guardians have determined that X is so damaging to Y, nobody can see it. But all of these other things that could be seen as just as bad, if not more, are left alone because of reasons.
Well, yeah it is kinda odd that they'd decide to remove skimpy costumes from an already M-rated game. But what's even more ridiculous is when people act like Nintendo did to Fatal Frame what Carl Macek did to Macross.

The same goes for any game where minor changes are made with localization. I recall a similar debacle going on when Bravely Default came out. Lots of people were salty over the characters getting slightly aged up and some of the costumes getting censored.

Yeah, **** immersion!
It's a game about a fashion witch forcing a princess to wear a catsuit where the primary mechanic is multiplayer goofiness with each Link being dressed in his own ridiculous costume.

I don't think immersion is what Nintendo was going for.

http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:45398 Here's an example of the crap this same translation studio pulled with Awakening, as well as a few more changes to XBX. If you've ever so much as heard of Xenogears, Xenosaga, or even to an extent Xenoblade, you know what a moronic decision censoring the religious references is.
Hooboy. Calling FE Awaken's translation bad is temple-rubbing levels of fanboyism. The translation for the scene in question is actually pretty good. It changes a lot of the wording to sound more natural in English, all of the characters are the same, and the end result is unchanged. If you think that's a bad translation, then obviously Final Fantasy VI should be burned at the stake.

There's a lot of people who translate but know very little about the finer points of translation. Go online and read a fan-translated manga and then read a professionally translated one to see this in action.

If I'm remembering right, people are upset at the way NoA handled Fatal Frame in general. Apparently the voice acting is RE1 tier and they decided they needed to use "Super Spoopy!" to advertise the game on Youtube, which pissed off a lot of people. It didn't help that the person who uploaded the video onto Ninty's channel bragged about it on Twitter, or something.

TL;DR: People mad because NoA aren't handling Fatal Frame well.
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. The voice acting really sucked in that game. Nintendo obviously had zero faith in the game, but the alternative is that it remains Japan exclusive. It's kinda a ****ty situation, but it could be worse.
 
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Kurri ★

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Shulk, visually speaking, doesn't that much older than your typical anime shota. If you took away the abs, he'd look about 14-ish (and still kinda does with them). So tell me: Why is it okay for Shulk to be in a swimsuit that you described as "underwear", but not okay for a female character who looks to be about the same age to be wearing a bikini? Why would you care what a collection of triangles is wearing in the first place?
When you say that, I'm inclined to just ignore it. Just go back to r/KotakuInAction

If the gaming community is such a joke, why are you still a part of it? Nobody is making you go to Smashboards.
Because I enjoy video games, I just think, rather, know stuff like GamerGate is a joke and ultimately a disgrace.

Yeah, **** immersion!
Immersion is great, but one meme isn't going to ruin it.

Lemme guess, Lab Zero removing a few frames of panty-shots is a form of censorship?
 

Iceweasel

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Well, yeah it is kinda odd that they'd decide to remove skimpy costumes from an already M-rated game. But what's even more ridiculous is when people act like Nintendo did to Fatal Frame what Carl Macek did to Macross.

The same goes for any game where minor changes are made with localization. I recall a similar debacle going on when Bravely Default came out. Lots of people were salty over the characters getting slightly aged up and some of the costumes getting censored.
Censorship was a big part of why I didn't buy Bravely Default. I loathe supporting censorship in any form, so much so that I'm strongly reconsidering my purchase of XBX, a game I can't remember being this hyped for ever. Or at least, that's how hyped I was before I realized what all is likely to be done to it.

It's a game about a fashion witch forcing a princess to wear a catsuit where the primary mechanic is multiplayer goofiness with each Link being dressed in his own ridiculous costume.

I don't think immersion is what Nintendo was going for.
That doesn't change all of the other issues with that line, like how dated it was when it came out, or that the joke it was referencing was never funny when it was new. Can't wait to see how somebody (probably not you, you seem relatively sane compared to most people on this website) are going to defend this practice once it starts showing up in other games. Oh wait, it has. Tharja's critical line, "You're already dead", does not bear any semblance to any of her critical lines in the Japanese version. We were lucky enough that it was still in-character for her, but we probably won't get that lucky again.

Hooboy. Calling FE Awaken's translation bad is temple-rubbing levels of fanboyism. The translation for the scene in question is actually pretty good. It changes a lot of the wording to sound more natural in English, all of the characters are the same, and the end result is unchanged. If you think that's a bad translation, then obviously Final Fantasy VI should be burned at the stake.

There's a lot of people who translate but know very little about the finer points of translation. Go online and read a fan-translated manga and then read a professionally translated one to see this in action.
What did you read? That wasn't just a cleaned up translation, there were blatant changes in tone and characterization. That's not okay.

As a followup to my previous post, I discovered that Fatal Frame had other censorship that WAS important to the story. Source: http://nichegamer.com/2015/10/nintendo-censored-story-content-in-fatal-frame-maiden-of-black-water/

Still think it's okay?

When you say that, I'm inclined to just ignore it. Just go back to r/KotakuInAction
In other words, you don't have an actual answer, you just don't want to have to advocate or reevaluate your position.

Because I enjoy video games, I just think, rather, know stuff like GamerGate is a joke and ultimately a disgrace.
I'm sorry that you think it's disgraceful that some people are tired of being talked down to by their own press, or how a certain group of ideologues constantly try (and often succeed) to get things that don't agree with their narrow worldview censored. Of course, you could avoid the problem entirely by enjoying the act of playing games, but not interacting with the gaming community. I'm sure we could make do without your wonderful company.


Immersion is great, but one meme isn't going to ruin it.
https://youtu.be/ls0Nn_-hv-8?t=8m4s This was pretty distracting. I found out while looking for the right line that Nowi had a TTGL meme, which would have been distracting too if I had used her. Still okay?

Lemme guess, Lab Zero removing a few frames of panty-shots is a form of censorship?
How is it not? It's a textbook example of how censorship is done in America.
 

finalark

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Censorship was a big part of why I didn't buy Bravely Default. I loathe supporting censorship in any form, so much so that I'm strongly reconsidering my purchase of XBX, a game I can't remember being this hyped for ever. Or at least, that's how hyped I was before I realized what all is likely to be done to it.
Aren't you the one earlier who said:

Why would you care what a collection of triangles is wearing in the first place?
Who cares if the game is slightly changed? The costumes are more tasteful and less revealing and the characters a bit older to make things more believably and to avoid unfortunate implications. Other than that it's the same incredibly awesome game.

That doesn't change all of the other issues with that line, like how dated it was when it came out, or that the joke it was referencing was never funny when it was new. Can't wait to see how somebody (probably not you, you seem relatively sane compared to most people on this website) are going to defend this practice once it starts showing up in other games. Oh wait, it has. Tharja's critical line, "You're already dead", does not bear any semblance to any of her critical lines in the Japanese version. We were lucky enough that it was still in-character for her, but we probably won't get that lucky again.
It wouldn't have been done had it not been in-character, because FE:Awakening has a good translation. On that note the fact that we've gotten to the point where a reference to one of the greatest manga ever penned is considered a meme makes my old-school otaku heart sink.

That aside, I don't think including a small nod to a meme is going to destroy a game. A friend and I played through a game called Gucamelee recently which was incredibly awesome but included a reference to the "Me Gusta" meme. It was eye rolling, but it's not like we quit and uninstalled the game on the spot.

References to outdated jokes are annoying, but are minor nitpicks unless the entire game is nothing but outdated jokes.

What did you read? That wasn't just a cleaned up translation, there were blatant changes in tone and characterization. That's not okay.

As a followup to my previous post, I discovered that Fatal Frame had other censorship that WAS important to the story. Source: http://nichegamer.com/2015/10/nintendo-censored-story-content-in-fatal-frame-maiden-of-black-water/

Still think it's okay?
The point of the original scene gets across just fine. I played the entire game with minimal knowledge of what was changed and the point resounded as strongly in the NA version as it did in the Japanese. I actually like the NA version a bit more as it feels like a well-aimed jab to the modeling industry's fixation of beauty with little regard for the actual person being photographed.

The Japanese version comes off as an excuse to put her in skimpy clothes.

So yes, I actually would say I walked away with a stronger impression from the censored version than I did the original.

Besides, translations do not have to be 1-to-1 with the original. It's okay to change things, to shift dialog into a way that makes sense to the new audience while getting the original point across. Besides, I've seen very, very good translations that enhance the original and make it much more enjoyable because of the changes made. Yes, it is entirely okay.
 
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Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but this is getting honest to God stupid. I'd say we drop it and move on before it gets any worse. With that said...

I'm beginning to get a distaste for "retro inspired" games. You know, the kinds that are generic 8-bit malarkey where where you can easily find it's inspirations out in open by looking at the bigger games on the NES (and it's always the NES). All for an attempt to get some hipster cred. Even though hundreds of games have done the same thing.

Oh, and it's always a 2D Platformer. Because we can't have enough of those am I right guys?
 

Kurri ★

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Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but this is getting honest to God stupid. I'd say we drop it and move on before it gets any worse. With that said...
Agreed

I'm beginning to get a distaste for "retro inspired" games. You know, the kinds that are generic 8-bit malarkey where where you can easily find it's inspirations out in open by looking at the bigger games on the NES (and it's always the NES). All for an attempt to get some hipster cred. Even though hundreds of games have done the same thing.

Oh, and it's always a 2D Platformer. Because we can't have enough of those am I right guys?
It's usually done because the devs aren't artists, so a simple, "8-Bit" artstyle is the best they can do. Once they get artists, you'll then see things like Indivisible, or A Hat in Time (which I really want to come out)
 

finalark

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I'm beginning to get a distaste for "retro inspired" games. You know, the kinds that are generic 8-bit malarkey where where you can easily find it's inspirations out in open by looking at the bigger games on the NES (and it's always the NES). All for an attempt to get some hipster cred. Even though hundreds of games have done the same thing.

Oh, and it's always a 2D Platformer. Because we can't have enough of those am I right guys?
If you're going to do a retro-style game the least you could do is try other eras of gaming. Has anyone tried to make a game that intentionally looks it belongs on the PS1?

Alternatively, do something other than 2D platformers. Why not a shooter designed with the same limitations the early Doom games were made under? Or how about a dungeon crawler like Dungeon Master or Eye of the Beholder? The only reason why 2D platformers are the go-to option is because they account for a majority of the NES' library giving indie devs a ton of games to pilfer with the excuse of nostalgia.
 

Iceweasel

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Aren't you the one earlier who said:



Who cares if the game is slightly changed? The costumes are more tasteful and less revealing and the characters a bit older to make things more believably and to avoid unfortunate implications. Other than that it's the same incredibly awesome game.
Changing the characters' attire and ages changes their characterization. My point was that it doesn't matter if the original version had them butt-naked, that's just what they did and it shouldn't be changed because a small group is overly concerned about the welfare of fictional people not portrayed by real actors.


FE:Awakening has a good translation.
Even though I have presented evidence to the contrary, you're going to continue asserting that FEA has a perfect translation.
On that note the fact that we've gotten to the point where a reference to one of the greatest manga ever penned is considered a meme makes my old-school otaku heart sink.
Yes, that is a meme. Quite a lot of memes are references to other things.

That aside, I don't think including a small nod to a meme is going to destroy a game.
No, but it can go a long way if it's not handled very, very carefully. I'd be more than a little annoyed if Dunban's Blossom Dance haiku came back, or if "It's Reyn time" was thrown in.

The point of the original scene gets across just fine. I played the entire game with minimal knowledge of what was changed and the point resounded as strongly in the NA version as it did in the Japanese. I actually like the NA version a bit more as it feels like a well-aimed jab to the modeling industry's fixation of beauty with little regard for the actual person being photographed.

The Japanese version comes off as an excuse to put her in skimpy clothes.

So yes, I actually would say I walked away with a stronger impression from the censored version than I did the original.

Besides, translations do not have to be 1-to-1 with the original. It's okay to change things, to shift dialog into a way that makes sense to the new audience while getting the original point across. Besides, I've seen very, very good translations that enhance the original and make it much more enjoyable because of the changes made. Yes, it is entirely okay.
Changing things in translation almost never works out well. Most things that get brought over are brought over because the original worked out so well. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Translations should be about as 1:1 as it's possible to get. This isn't always possible, but it's the best way to do it. Most people would rather enjoy art as close as possible to the original vision, not through the clouded lens of what a bunch of bored jack-off chucke****s **** out for the rest of the world.

But hey, I hear 4kids is hiring. Maybe you should apply.
 

finalark

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Changing the characters' attire and ages changes their characterization. My point was that it doesn't matter if the original version had them butt-naked, that's just what they did and it shouldn't be changed because a small group is overly concerned about the welfare of fictional people not portrayed by real actors.
Does having a slightly higher age and more modest clothing change the way the characters interact with each other? No.

Does having a slightly higher age and more modest clothing change the characters' motivations? No.

Does having a slightly higher age and more modest clothing change how they react to the events of the story? No.

Then do you care to tell me how this changes characterization?

Even though I have presented evidence to the contrary, you're going to continue asserting that FEA has a perfect translation.
Way to put words into my mouth. I said it had a good translation, not a perfect one. If you honestly think that FEA has a bad translation then you've never seen an actually bad one at work.

Changing things in translation almost never works out well. Most things that get brought over are brought over because the original worked out so well. In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Translations should be about as 1:1 as it's possible to get. This isn't always possible, but it's the best way to do it. Most people would rather enjoy art as close as possible to the original vision, not through the clouded lens of what a bunch of bored jack-off chucke****s **** out for the rest of the world.

But hey, I hear 4kids is hiring. Maybe you should apply.
You ever see Castle in the Sky? The sky pirates in that movie had zero personality in the original, the English version made them into a lovable band of quirky idiots.

You ever play Final Fantasy VI? It's Japan it's considered one of the weakest games in the series due to the boring characters and for Kefka being a ****ing idiot who becomes a god for no reason. The English version fleshed out the cast, gave Kefka his insane personality and is one of the most loved games in the series in the west. There was a GBA port with a more faithful translation. Guess how that went over?

You ever play Pokemon? Many of the Japanese names don't make any sense to English speaker, thus they're changed to be reflective of the original intent but to English ears.

You ever play Chrono Cross? According to the game's translator, the original Japanese version was filled with plotholes that were fixed in the English version.

Don't go around trashing on translations when you don't get the art.
 

Substitution

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But here's the thing that I think we've all been forgetting in all of this: Translations are almost never exactly like the original. You'll be hard-pressed to find a translation that directly mirrors the original version (especially in video games or television). We have altered, changed, and yes, even censored since translations have been a thing. And you know what? That's okay.

When you localize something, it's far more than just changing a few words and calling it a day. You have to bring something from a completely different culture to one that may or may not mesh with it all to make sure the message is read loud and clear.

A great example of this is Professor Layton. Where entire puzzles have to be revamped or even introduced all to make sure everyone can get in on the action (like a puzzle about meters being changed to one about inches). Now, that doesn't mean Americans are stupid for not knowing Kanji, nor are Europeans morons for not understanding Fahrenheit, it's just our culture. And that's completely okay.

And let's be real here, if we burned every company who hadn't made at least one change or altered a bit of text, we would have no one left. It's not just Nintendo that does this, every corporation as we know it does it. It's not that they hate the original text, nor because they're out to get the fans. It's because they understand that not all cultures are the same, and thus have to accommodate for that.




This is as far as I'm going with this. Like I said, this isn't going anywhere. And looking at the "4Kids" line some are already throwing unneeded punches. So once again, I ask that we move on.
 

Bluekirby2

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I will also advise that you question your morals, sicne you seem to think that a collection of triangles shaped into a crude facsimile of a human should be given the considerations a human would get.
>Implying the concept of being sexually attracted to a fictional character is strange.

Wow, you must be new to the internet.

Oh yeah, and also

>sicne
>not since
 

Iceweasel

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Does having a slightly higher age and more modest clothing change the way the characters interact with each other? No.

Does having a slightly higher age and more modest clothing change the characters' motivations? No.

Does having a slightly higher age and more modest clothing change how they react to the events of the story? No.

Then do you care to tell me how this changes characterization?
Thanks to my newly-acquired (as of about 3 hrs ago) "skills" in GIMP, I can show you.

This is Ika Musume.
Shinryaku_ika_musume_2_by_madwulf-d30kryv.png
She's very brash and has too much confidence for her own good. She's also very clueless about a lot of things, but underneath her invader persona she's incredibly sweet and innocent. Her age is not given, if such a thing can be determined about the sea's messenger. However, she looks about 8-12 and her personality reflects this.

Let's age up our little squid girl, give her less clothing, and see what giving her the same personality does.
ikasenpai.png
This is still Ika Musume. She thinks the same as her younger counterpart and acts the same as her younger counterpart. However, she seems a lot less innocent now, one of her defining characteristics. In addition, the older Ika seems slightly less mentally well than her younger self, since she still acts like the 8-12yo she was even though she looks closer to 14 or 15 now. Even if our squid girl still thinks and acts the same, her companions would probably behave slightly differently in her presence. It's just weird for a 14yo to act like a 10yo.

Remember the old Wizard of Oz movie from the 1930s? Dorothy is supposed to be a very young character, which is why her speech patterns and behavior (and to an extent, her friends') seems so uncanny when she's played by a 20-something Judy Garland. It's just weird, and attempting to make it less weird involves subtly changing how other characters act towards her and what they think of her.


Way to put words into my mouth. I said it had a good translation, not a perfect one. If you honestly think that FEA has a bad translation then you've never seen an actually bad one at work.
I've played games where the translation messed up clues that were critical to progression in the main story. I replay Xenogears annually. Just because a translation isn't Zero Wing levels of bad doesn't make it good.

I forgot to mention this earlier: The incompetence of the Awakening translation team caused one of the main characters' names to get mispronounced, now and probably forever since the screwup is part of Smash. Lucina's name should be pronounced with a hard C, but thanks to nobody doing their job, it's now "Luseena"

You ever play Pokemon? Many of the Japanese names don't make any sense to English speaker, thus they're changed to be reflective of the original intent but to English ears.
Only ever played Pokemon, so I'm responding to that one.

Pokemon was a perfect example of Morton's Fork in translation. :001:'s name could be "Odd seed" or "Weird, huh?". The pun doesn't translate. Both translations (or the third option of just leaving it alone) would be a bad choice for a name. Leaving the name alone would just cause it to get butchered by nine-year-olds, so the translation team came up with what they could under the limits they had to work with. This is one of those rare cases when it made sense to change things. Another example of a good change was in Wind Waker. The "Triumph Forks" is what the game calls the Triforce, to indicate that all that exists of Hyrule is a bunch of half-forgotten legends. This was changed from the Bucket and Hose, which shares a similar pronunciation in the Japanese version and exists for the same purpose. A few lines had to be changed to cutlery gags, but they were likely similar in the original version (which I haven't played). This was a good change, because the purpose behind the old lines were kept and translating the old lines literally would only cause confusion to an aspect that was easily understandable in its original incarnation.

Unlike, say, removing the implication that Henry was about to kill the injured dog he found. In the translation Americans were given, the implication is that Olivia jumped to conclusions.

Don't go around trashing on translations when you don't get the art.
It's not as much of an art as you seem to think it is.

But here's the thing that I think we've all been forgetting in all of this: Translations are almost never exactly like the original.
You don't say.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a translation that directly mirrors the original version (especially in video games or television). We have altered, changed, and yes, even censored since translations have been a thing. And you know what? That's okay.
According to you.


When you localize something, it's far more than just changing a few words and calling it a day. You have to bring something from a completely different culture to one that may or may not mesh with it all to make sure the message is read loud and clear.
What I take issue with is that so many things are changed unnecessarily. For every instance where changing something would improve things (like that Secret of Mana puzzle that involved walking around the season-changing woods, where one of the seasons was represented by flowering sakura), there are about five instances of "THESE DOUGHNUTS ARE GREAT! JELLY-FILLED ARE MY FAVORITE! NOTHING BEATS A JELLY-FILLED DOUGHNUT!" - That is, a completely unnecessary change that takes away from the flavor of the original and more often than not makes you scratch your head.

And let's be real here, if we burned every company who hadn't made at least one change or altered a bit of text, we would have no one left. It's not just Nintendo that does this, every corporation as we know it does it. It's not that they hate the original text, nor because they're out to get the fans. It's because they understand that not all cultures are the same, and thus have to accommodate for that.
I think you're severely underestimating peoples' intelligence here. Not many people I know are cavemen that get angry when they see rice balls and go on a rampage. To reiterate: I don't object to necessary changes that are made so that the new audience can understand what's going on. I do object to all other changes made during the localization process.
 

SimonBarSinister

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Wow, all this talk about translation mishaps.....

To me, gameplay comes first. I've seen some crappy translations at times(most notably in various Mega Man games), but as long as they don't impede my enjoyment of the game I can't really complain about it. If there is a gameplay problem, then I might get worked up. But over translation issues(intentional or otherwise)? I just don't care enough to get upset over it.
 

Champ Gold

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I really hate when people tend to forget that Japan censored a crap ton of western games for years due to excessive violence (although certain games made it through like Mortal Kombat).

Most games getting translated here must be approved by the developers as well (Sakurai did that for KI Uprising due to the jokes and references the west wouldn't get.) and that game did characters much better than the original Japan script.

The only reason people get upset over translation problems is because they're scared that NOA will add memes which lets be honest shouldn't ever effect you no matter how unnecessary. Especially considering Japan has memes on their own in here games.

If those translations get you so salty just play the worst ones; their's are truly frightening
 

finalark

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Thanks to my newly-acquired (as of about 3 hrs ago) "skills" in GIMP, I can show you.

This is Ika Musume.
View attachment 81594
She's very brash and has too much confidence for her own good. She's also very clueless about a lot of things, but underneath her invader persona she's incredibly sweet and innocent. Her age is not given, if such a thing can be determined about the sea's messenger. However, she looks about 8-12 and her personality reflects this.

Let's age up our little squid girl, give her less clothing, and see what giving her the same personality does.
View attachment 81595
This is still Ika Musume. She thinks the same as her younger counterpart and acts the same as her younger counterpart. However, she seems a lot less innocent now, one of her defining characteristics. In addition, the older Ika seems slightly less mentally well than her younger self, since she still acts like the 8-12yo she was even though she looks closer to 14 or 15 now. Even if our squid girl still thinks and acts the same, her companions would probably behave slightly differently in her presence. It's just weird for a 14yo to act like a 10yo.
To quote you:

According to you.
I've played games where the translation messed up clues that were critical to progression in the main story. I replay Xenogears annually. Just because a translation isn't Zero Wing levels of bad doesn't make it good.
That makes it a bad translation.

I forgot to mention this earlier: The incompetence of the Awakening translation team caused one of the main characters' names to get mispronounced, now and probably forever since the screwup is part of Smash. Lucina's name should be pronounced with a hard C, but thanks to nobody doing their job, it's now "Luseena"
Technically, her name isn't really Lucina. It's Rukina. If it was Lucina it would be spelled ルシーナ rather than ルキナ. I imagined it was changed because Rukina sounds harsh to western ears while Lucina sounds soft and feminine. Not to mention Lucina is a real name that uses a soft C.

Only ever played Pokemon, so I'm responding to that one.

Pokemon was a perfect example of Morton's Fork in translation. :001:'s name could be "Odd seed" or "Weird, huh?". The pun doesn't translate. Both translations (or the third option of just leaving it alone) would be a bad choice for a name. Leaving the name alone would just cause it to get butchered by nine-year-olds, so the translation team came up with what they could under the limits they had to work with. This is one of those rare cases when it made sense to change things.
Those cases are way more common than you think.

It's not as much of an art as you seem to think it is.
LOL OKAY. How many languages are you at least tourist level in? You even went into exquisite detail about how and why things would have to be changed only to brush it off like it's easy? As a language enthusiast, this is just painful. It's not just words you have to get over, there's cultural barriers and differences you have to work around too. Translating an entire game from one language to another isn't as easy as making it playable in English, you also have to present it in a way the new audience can identify with.
 

Kurri ★

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This is probably only unpopular here, but Black Ops 3 is pretty fun. I personally believe Treyarch makes the better Call of Duty games
 

Twewy

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This is probably only unpopular here, but Black Ops 3 is pretty fun. I personally believe Treyarch makes the better Call of Duty games
I would agree, but CoD1+UO and 4 are still things.

WaW is damn good though.
 

Iceweasel

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finalark finalark Are you trying to tell me I'm wrong because of the L/R issue? You're really reaching, dude.

All hail our localization overlords, 4kids "Entertainment". Name changes, rice ball edits, and general censorship will come to you, but only if you post "NOTHING BEATS A JELLY-FILLED DOUGHNUT" in this thread
 

Twewy

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After CoD 4 then. I just find their games to be fresher and more interesting.
You're very right too. Treyarch introduced Zombies and Dead Ops to the series, and made single player more interesting with the branching paths. WaW's Russian campaign was really well done too. Then again it's kind of a law that if a CoD has a Russian campaign it's going to be the best part of single player.
 

finalark

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finalark finalark Are you trying to tell me I'm wrong because of the L/R issue? You're really reaching, dude.
Technically, her name isn't really Lucina. It's Rukina. If it was Lucina it would be spelled ルシーナ rather than ルキナ. I imagined it was changed because Rukina sounds harsh to western ears while Lucina sounds soft and feminine. Not to mention Lucina is a real name that uses a soft C.
Do you even katakana, bro? I didn't even mention the L/R issue once, since it's not really an issue at all.
 

Twewy

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I don't think Wario Land Shake It!/The Shake Dimension was all that bad. A bit similar to 4 but I liked how the game encouraged you to go back through the levels with the challenges and the level design messing you up. I remember accidentally rendering an (optional) puzzle unsolvable because I messed things up, so next time I went through the level I knew not to do that.

Plus it makes sense for a game to screw Wario over. In a series where you need to abuse Wario to proceed it's kind of funny to have a Wario game deny him treasure because he didn't take the time to think things through.
 
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