What are your unpopular gaming opinions?

[swampthingcs]

Which company are people more likely to point fingers at in terms of poor quality control? I mean, it seems like the company you're giving a hard time is Nintendo. Is that what you intended?

Well
They both deserve a hard time
and 5 minutes of eShop/Steam browsing can prove it

 

[Reila]

Fire Emblem Awakening is absolute garbage, with the soundtrack being its only positive aspect. I don't know how the same company that developed games like Advance Wars, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn and the Paper Mario titles could also develop such a tasteless game.

 

[Iceweasel]

Fire Emblem Awakening is absolute garbage, with the soundtrack being its only positive aspect. I don't know how the same company that developed games like Advance Wars, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn and the Paper Mario titles could also develop such a tasteless game.

Please elaborate a little more. What did you, or didn't you, like about Awakening? What, exactly, do you mean by "tasteless"?

 

[finalark]

I'm sure I've said this in other threads, but I'll say it again here: There are way more people who want to laugh at Sonic's failures than there are people who want to see him return to glory.

Facing the facts, we're a point where "LAL SANIC" is so deeply ingrained into internet culture that saying you like anything but the Genesis games is bound to get you lots of ridicule. Even if you're a twentysomething year old who grew up on the Adventure series we've reached the point where enjoying your childhood games isn't considered acceptable simply because they're about the blue blur.

Case a point: Sonic in the early 10s. Between 2010 and 2014 we got three Sonic games that are generally considered good or at least a cut above average by the Sonic community. Sonic Colors, Generations and Lost World. During this time, the internet seemed fine with leaving Sonic alone for the time being. But in fact, they were waiting like a lion for Boom to peak its head out of the bushes so they could give cries of "LAL SANIC" and "SANIK '14" while pretending the good stuff doesn't exist.

I honestly don't know how much of a future Sonic has with the internet generation growing up with the idea of Sonic being this massive joke to mock relentlessly instead of a very solid and influential series of platformers. We've already seen once major and important series die due to shooting themselves in the foot. And while some of them were able to recover (Tomb Raider and Mortal Kombat are good examples of this) Sonic doesn't stand much of a chance since the internet community at large doesn't seem all that interested in seeing him recover.

 

[Iceweasel]

Sonic was always doomed to fail. In fact, it's kind of surprising that it managed to become so popular. The first few Sonic games were solid platformers, but they have this strange mixture of qualities that worked in the 90s and thankfully never again. Sonic had this horrible 90s mix of The Rebel and family-friendliness. Such a mix is known to TVTropes users as the "badbutt" archetype. The badbutt look the part of the badass, and halfway acts the part of the badass, but they can't do anything worse than mouth off (without using any curse words, naturally) because the corporate overlords are trying to go for the young child/preteen demographic. Bonus points if it's trying to appeal to Youths Who Do Youth Things, but since it's made by a bunch of middle-age guys they don't know much of anything about these Youth Things and any time these elements come up they're either painfully shoehorned in or flat-out wrong. Sonic, and many other platformers trying to copy it, were absolutely dripping with this fake "attitude". It's someone trying to sell you something that can't actually be bought in the most obvious and transparent way possible, and somehow it worked in the 90s.

I like the first few on the Genesis, but I can't stand to look at the title screens for any of them.

EDIT: For further reading, TVTropes has an article specifically for the brand of badbutt employed by Sonic and his knockoffs.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MascotWithAttitude

 

[Deleted member]

Ooo, what a fun idea. Let's see...

I also never found Navi annoying, but you can't admit that in front of anyone
Kirby's Dreamland 3 is one of my favorite games. It's more charming than Kirby Superstar
I loved Metroid Prime 2 and I never whined that it was too hard. It was the first Prime game I played
I started to play Golden Sun and during the first hour or so was very bored and haven't picked it up again yet
Double Dash!! is awesome, I know some love it but others don't
I also love Mario Sunshine, I think it's a brilliant continuation of the Super Mario 64 formula without being a carbon copy
LOVED Twilight Princess. Everything about it. Loved it. Gamecube version, obviously, because Link is f-ing left-handed
I think Cia is a cool character, and I hate Lana. Wasn't it supposed to be the other way around?
Raichu > Pikachu

 

[Iceweasel]

Ditto on the first two. Navi is a paragon of helpfulness, as long as you know how to find the Kokiri Sword and beat Dark Link. She shows you the location of hidden treasure chests and Scarecrow spawn points, and offers lots of delicious flavor text. She's kind of annoying in the 3DS version, but that's because some of her behavior was changed in the 3DS edition.

Superstar is a collection of minigames, DL3 has way more content at better quality. I wouldn't call it one of my favorite games, but it's my second-favorite Kirby next to City Trial in Air Ride.

 

[oZzIIgk]

Double Dash!! is awesome, I know some love it but others don't

I hated the whole part about it being Double Dash, but aside from that, it has some of the best tracks out of the whole series.

 

[finalark]

I think Cia is a cool character, and I hate Lana. Wasn't it supposed to be the other way around?

I'm almost a 100% that Lana is the result of some exec walking in on the dev team and saying "Reports on are in. Jpop idols are big among males ages 15-25. That's our demographic, find a way to fit one in."

Raichu > Pikachu

This is correct.

EDIT: How in god's name was your username not taken?

Sonic was always doomed to fail. In fact, it's kind of surprising that it managed to become so popular. The first few Sonic games were solid platformers, but they have this strange mixture of qualities that worked in the 90s and thankfully never again. Sonic had this horrible 90s mix of The Rebel and family-friendliness.

90s Sonic is a more interesting beast than that, I think. Obviously he was intended to be a bit "edgier" than your average platformer protagonist. But the thing is, aside from posing on the title screen and having impatient idle animations you can pretty much slap whatever personality you want on him.

For example, the NA Sonic the Hegehog (specifically the ones from the 90s) comic books characterized him as a snarky troll (or The Gadfly if we're going to be dropping TV tropes lingo) who's like to mess with the antagonists and purposely do things to fluster them.

Meanwhile, across the pond in EU comics, namely Sonic the Comic, Sonic is characterized as an abrasive punk who bullies Tails and isn't a very nice guy, but goddamnit he's the only one who can stop Robotnick.

That being said, I do agree with you that Sonic is very much so a creation of the 90s. The 10s games try to update him by replacing the cheesy rock with cheesy electronica and it has him throwing around already outdated slang and generally acting a bit more in line with the decade. Despite that, he's still a caricature of the 90s the same way Shadow is a caricature of the 2000s.

So yeah, Sonic the character might struggle, but Sonic the game shouldn't.

 

[Kurri ★]

I'm almost a 100% that Lana is the result of some exec walking in on the dev team and saying "Reports on are in. Jpop idols are big among males ages 15-25. That's our demographic, find a way to fit one in."



This is correct.

EDIT: How in god's name was your username not taken?



90s Sonic is a more interesting beast than that, I think. Obviously he was intended to be a bit "edgier" than your average platformer protagonist. But the thing is, aside from posing on the title screen and having impatient idle animations you can pretty much slap whatever personality you want on him.

For example, the NA Sonic the Hegehog (specifically the ones from the 90s) comic books characterized him as a snarky troll (or The Gadfly if we're going to be dropping TV tropes lingo) who's like to mess with the antagonists and purposely do things to fluster them.

Meanwhile, across the pond in EU comics, namely Sonic the Comic, Sonic is characterized as an abrasive punk who bullies Tails and isn't a very nice guy, but goddamnit he's the only one who can stop Robotnick.

That being said, I do agree with you that Sonic is very much so a creation of the 90s. The 10s games try to update him by replacing the cheesy rock with cheesy electronica and it has him throwing around already outdated slang and generally acting a bit more in line with the decade. Despite that, he's still a caricature of the 90s the same way Shadow is a caricature of the 2000s.

So yeah, Sonic the character might struggle, but Sonic the game shouldn't.

I think this nearly 2 hour long video sums up nicely what you're trying to say

Granted it goes over a hell of a lot more, but one of it's focus was the character of Sonic himself and the many ways he's perceived (a lot and counting).

TL;DW Sonic's biggest issue, as a character (and narrative) is that there is no set character.

Sonic for me is that blue hedgehog from Earth, who, with the help of his friends, stops Dr. Eggman's nefarious plans.

Sonic for someone else could be a blue hedgehog from planet Mobius, who, with the help of the Freedom Fighters, stops Dr. Robotnik from ruling the world, or whatever they do in the comics.

For someone else, it could be Sonic Boom, or Sonic X, etc.

Sonic as a character has a huge identity crisis.

 

[finalark]

Sonic as a character has a huge identity crisis.

This is a good way to sum it up. I feel like this is part of the reason why Sonic fans infamously can't agree on anything. They're so many versions of him that differ from continuity to continuity that it doesn't make if both you and another person grew up on Sonic, you still could have had very different experiences.

On an interesting note, this is actually SOJ's "fault." Sonic was always intended to be the coolest thing on the planet no matter where he was. So they took advantage of the Genesis series' limited story and told each region to make Sonic whatever kids in that region considered cool. This is why NA Sonic comics and EU Sonic comics are so different.

 

[Carrill]

I like inverted camera controls. Other people hate them but I grew up with mostly Japanese games, which usually have inverted cameras as the default. I could never get used to non-inverted cameras.

 

[Saucen]

Red Dead Redemption is a mediocre game at best.

 

[Champ Gold]

Red Dead Redemption is a mediocre game at best.

Despite my major enjoyment of the game, I can see the reasoning behind this opinion.

Gameplay is generic, boring missions when it isn't related to plot and Dead Eye being Max Payne's Bullet Time

But damn the story was one of my favorite in gaming. Plus that ending

 

[Saucen]

Despite my major enjoyment of the game, I can see the reasoning behind this opinion.

Gameplay is generic, boring missions when it isn't related to plot and Dead Eye being Max Payne's Bullet Time

But damn the story was one of my favorite in gaming. Plus that ending

That's the thing... I couldn't enjoy the game long enough to get into the story. Everyone raves about this game but after ~10 hours in I was already looking to trade it in.

 

[Carrill]

Red Dead Redemption is a mediocre game at best.

I can definitely agree with that. The gameplay structure is super-repetitive. It's always watch cutscene of characters you probably don't care about, ride horses to location, and shoot guys. The story also isn't reflective of your playstyle if you play like an outlaw. John Marston's behavior in the cutscenes only ever reflects the "good" playstyle.

I had the most fun with it just exploring the wilderness and getting lost in it. Or just doing my own thing in general. Even if it was just screwing around.

 

[BlueZard]

- I actually love Omochao from Sonic Adventure 2. So many people find him to be incredibly annoying, but I found him to be cute and entertaining. He never bothered me as a young child playing the game, and he still doesn't bother me today.

- I liked Mario Sunshine. I'm not sure if this is technically an unpopular opinion or not (I've seen plenty of others who like it, but also people who don't), but I'm throwing this out there anyway. I thought F.L.U.D.D. was pretty cool, and I really just enjoyed the game as a whole. Sometimes, I might even go into a level for the sake of goofing around (sometimes I would try to spread the goop around as much as I can, rather than cleaning it), and I just had a fun time. And plus, Yoshi was in it! (I really loved Yoshi when I was little, and I still have a soft spot for him.) Part of my love for this game might be due to the fact that this was my first 3D Mario game, meaning that I was pretty young back then, and didn't have super specific expectations. I was able to enjoy the game for what it was, and not get upset about it for being different. Because, when I first played it, it actually seemed normal to me, due to it being my first 3D Mario game. I had nothing to compare it to. And even now, I still think it's fun to play.

- I love Twilight Princess, and the Wolf Link sections were actually my favorite parts. I've seen some people hate on the Wolf Link sections of the game, but I loved them. As a matter of fact, once you got the ability to freely switch between normal Link and Wolf Link, I'd usually prefer to play as Wolf Link unless normal Link was required for something. And no, Twilight Princess was not my first Zelda game, it was my second. The Wind Waker was my first (and I also love that game). But regardless, I still enjoy this game very much (I even own both the Wii version and the GameCube version), and I'm very close to beating it. I actually remember playing Brawl and being disappointed that Link's Final Smash didn't cause him to change into Wolf Link, especially because of Samus/ZSS.

- Oh boy, here we go... This one's gonna be about Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, and I'm pretty sure that almost no one is going to agree with me on this. At all.

Red/Blue Rescue Team > Gates to Infinity > Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky

There. I said it. I actually used to love Explorers, but then I tried replaying it. And then I really didn't like it anymore. The cutscenes were so long and boring to me, especially when I already remembered the story really well, and just wanted to get on with the gameplay. Some of the NPCs were kinda annoying, and Team Skull just irritated me. Some of the dialogue didn't really appeal to me either.

For Gates to Infinity, I know that game gets a lot of hate, but I liked it. Even though it had an extreme lack of Pokemon, and the story might have been cheesy to some, I found the game enjoyable regardless. The characters were much more likable in my opinion, and there were some changes that I actually liked in terms of the gameplay.

Rescue Team? My absolute favorite! I found the cutscenes to be entertaining, especially given some of the dialogue choices for your own character. I've replayed the game multiple times, and I always had fun. Sure, it still isn't perfect or anything, but I definitely prefer it the most. I do hope Super Mystery Dungeon ends up topping this game as my favorite, though, or at least ties with it, because I am really bothered by the fact that my favorite game in the series is the very first one. I want to like a series more as it progresses! I want it to get better! Now, it's pretty apparent that Super Mystery Dungeon is going to have some big improvements. But I don't want it to have annoying characters or anything else that I felt was bad about Explorers...

Anyway, there we go. My unpopular opinions. I might have some more, but I can't remember them right now. So, yeah.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually remember playing Brawl and being disappointed that Link's Final Smash didn't cause him to change into Wolf Link, especially because of Samus/ZSS.

Gee, not a bad idea, even as a temporary transformation. And Toon Link could have ridden on a wave in the King of Red Lions, shooting bombs....but no....

 

[KimKarsmashian]

I honestly don't know how much of a future Sonic has with the internet generation growing up with the idea of Sonic being this massive joke to mock relentlessly instead of a very solid and influential series of platformers. We've already seen once major and important series die due to shooting themselves in the foot. And while some of them were able to recover (Tomb Raider and Mortal Kombat are good examples of this) Sonic doesn't stand much of a chance since the internet community at large doesn't seem all that interested in seeing him recover.

Sonic has become the Nickelback of gaming. People hate on him because you're supposed to hate him. The actual reason for hating him is as vague and slippery as the reasons for hating on Nickelback. I've heard one Nickelback song, which I didn't like, and yet I was part of the Nickelback hatewagon... that made no sense. It was fun because when you wanted to make fun of bland music, you could point to Nickelback. If you pointed to some other band, people would argue, feelings would get hurt. By agreeing that we mock Nickelback, we avoid all that unpleasantness and can get to making jokes. Similarly, when you want to make fun of a messy series, just point to Sonic and everyone knows actually what you mean. Sonic fans have also become some kind of Nickelback fandom that we love to hate, so their cries are ignored.

I'm sad that "the Adventure games were fun to play" has become an unpopular opinion. The camera was garbage and the games were basically the virtual embodiment of "messy," but somewhere in the mess was a kernel of fun.

Also, Sonic Heroes wasn't that bad.

 

[Nona]

• I've heard lots of people say negative things about FFX-2 because "lol girl power" but damn, I've had the most fun with that battle system than I did any other FF (doesn't mean much considering I haven't even played any before VIII), and I also believe the "bad ending" for FFX-2 is the best one.
• I don't hate FFXIII, at most I'm just dissatisfied the entire PS3 era was spent on it for the most part. Lightning Returns had fun battles, though. The lore is interesting if you take the time to read it all.
• It's a blessing we have 2 Mother characters in Smash and I feel selfish wanting more when larger, more popular franchises have lacked new reps. I'm all in for a new Mother rep, but not before everyone else gets some more spotlight.
• This might not be unpopular, but I'm personally sick of seeing Persona 4 everywhere.
• Majora's Mask > OoT (maybe this was unpopular before the 3DS MM)
• I like to time travel in Animal Crossing and you can't stop me
• This is a really shallow viewpoint and hypocritical: I don't mind games with a lot of cleavage or raunchiness, but when it becomes the main selling point of a game (see Dead or Alive / Senran Kagura) I get a little uncomfortable with the idea. Even if the games are a blast to play. I don't want to turn into the next Anita Sarkeesian, so I just ignore it. Games are games.
• In line with that comment, I feel bad for characters with massive breasts (Ivy/Taki from SC) because damn girl, those things must be a nuisance when you're trying to fight like a BAMF

@ KimKarsmashian , I agree on Sonic Heroes. It brought back my homies from Team Chaotix. I feel the same about Adventures being fun. I still play it now and then (mostly for Chao Garden, why can't we have a Chao Garden on 3DS or something?)

 

[FunAtParties]

Probably the most unpopular opinion I could ever think of that I personally hold dear is that, I don't think Link should EVER be a girl.

Now to clarify, I like the idea of Zelda being the protagonist, or maybe even Linkelle (Link's proposed sister concept), but not a female or avatar Link (I say this because people like to jump on the sexist wagon real quick). I just think it makes his character disingenuine, making him anything other than what he's already been just makes him another generic avatar. Might as well be Fable.

To me, Link will always be a young Hyrulian boy, with blondish hair, and even with different art styles and such, I'd like it to stay that way.

 

[Kurri ★]

Probably the most unpopular opinion I could ever think of that I personally hold dear is that, I don't think Link should EVER be a girl.

Now to clarify, I like the idea of Zelda being the protagonist, or maybe even Linkelle (Link's proposed sister concept), but not a female or avatar Link (I say this because people like to jump on the sexist wagon real quick). I just think it makes his character disingenuine, making him anything other than what he's already been just makes him another generic avatar. Might as well be Fable.

To me, Link will always be a young Hyrulian boy, with blondish hair, and even with different art styles and such, I'd like it to stay that way.

I think the best argument to this is that you rarely play the same Link in each game. Skyword Sword Link is not Twilight Princess Link, Windwaker Link is not Spirit Tracks. There are cases where you are playing the same Link, OOT to MM, but for the most part it's generally been a different Link.

And tbh I think it's more unpopular to WANT a female Link. I personally don't see why not. It's not like the Zelda series actually requires Link to be a 'He" And if it does, let's shake it up a bit. Really I just think having more diversity in games would be beneficial.

 

[FunAtParties]

I think the best argument to this is that you rarely play the same Link in each game. Skyword Sword Link is not Twilight Princess Link, Windwaker Link is not Spirit Tracks. There are cases where you are playing the same Link, OOT to MM, but for the most part it's generally been a different Link.

And tbh I think it's more unpopular to WANT a female Link. I personally don't see why not. It's not like the Zelda series actually requires Link to be a 'He" And if it does, let's shake it up a bit. Really I just think having more diversity in games would be beneficial.

I guess it's not "unpopular", but it's pretty divisive.

I get that he's not the same in every version, but I don't see why that makes it a good idea to change the way they've always made the character. He's always had certain characteristics, why do we NEED to change it? To me it's just unnecessary.

Like I said before, I'm fine with diversity or switching it up. I'd be down with a Zelda lead LoZ game, it could take place in a timeline where Ganondorf captures Link or some ish, but not a female Link. He's become more than the avatar they originally set him out to be. He's become Link, the Hero of Time; we all know the face, the grunts, the wardrobe; it's part of our popular lexicon, it's part of our historia. I'd rather not change that.

 

[Saucen]

I think Link needs to stay a male because Link is always a male and that's just how it goes.

Just make a game centered around Zelda/Sheik from OoT. I'd play the heck outta that. Make it so you could switch easily and have to master both playstyles to get through dungeons.

 

[Iceweasel]

@ FunAtParties @Kurri Whether Link should be female or not is a major point of contention in the Zelda fandom, or at least it was when I could stomach being around them. While, no, there's nothing that says Link HAS to be female, it's something that has been consistent throughout the series and trying to change it would not only make no sense, but would also erode Link/the Links as a character/s. It's like if Link was suddenly right handed - No, there's nothing that says he HAS to be left handed, it's just part of Links' identity. There's no reason his default costume HAS to be green, nor why it includes a floppy conical hat, it's just part of Link's identity.

Another major point of contention is whether Zelda should have her own game to be the hero. Which side of the debate you fall on is strongly correlated to how much you know about the series lore and how many of the games you've played, so unless you're looking for a long, elaborate essay on why Zelda can't be the Hero of Hyrule I'll just say that's a bad idea.

 

[Nona]

It might be interesting if Link was a girl in one game. They could go the Heavenly Sword route and dismiss femLink as the Hero until she proves herself to be the true incarnation. But overall I don't think it would change much of the story/gameplay.

 

[FunAtParties]

@ FunAtParties @Kurri
Another major point of contention is whether Zelda should have her own game to be the hero. Which side of the debate you fall on is strongly correlated to how much you know about the series lore and how many of the games you've played, so unless you're looking for a long, elaborate essay on why Zelda can't be the Hero of Hyrule I'll just say that's a bad idea.

I honestly wouldn't mind knowing. I tried looking it up on Google, and got the big "why no fem Link" in all the results. So if you wouldn't mind...

It might be interesting if Link was a girl in one game. They could go the Heavenly Sword route and dismiss femLink as the Hero until she proves herself to be the true incarnation. But overall I don't think it would change much of the story/gameplay.

It's an interesting idea when put like that, but I'd like there be more it then it just be a female Link. Maybe Link is the protagonist's brother and sets out to take out whatever evil is out there(the Mother 3 route), because he's supposedly the Hero of Hyrule, and never returns. It's then that the sister, maybe a revamped Aryll, sets out to save him/Hyrule from the evil forces about, and prove she's the true hero(ine).

I think I could live with, but I'd still find it unnecessary.

 

[Kurri ★]

@ FunAtParties @Kurri Whether Link should be female or not is a major point of contention in the Zelda fandom, or at least it was when I could stomach being around them. While, no, there's nothing that says Link HAS to be female, it's something that has been consistent throughout the series and trying to change it would not only make no sense, but would also erode Link/the Links as a character/s. It's like if Link was suddenly right handed - No, there's nothing that says he HAS to be left handed, it's just part of Links' identity. There's no reason his default costume HAS to be green, nor why it includes a floppy conical hat, it's just part of Link's identity.

Another major point of contention is whether Zelda should have her own game to be the hero. Which side of the debate you fall on is strongly correlated to how much you know about the series lore and how many of the games you've played, so unless you're looking for a long, elaborate essay on why Zelda can't be the Hero of Hyrule I'll just say that's a bad idea.

If Zelda can't be, why not just make a female Link? Sure it's part of his identity, but this is fantasy, you're allowed to change it up. I don't see why a character in general has to stay a certain for all eternity. If it's part of their identity, start a new continuity, change up their identity, explore new things. Why can't Peter Parker be black? Why can't it be Batman be referred to as she? So long as the bare fundamentals of that character is done I don't see the harm in changing things up.

I see the arguments saying, just make a game where you play as Zelda, but that's not the same, because Zelda isn't Link.

 

[FunAtParties]

If Zelda can't be, why not just make a female Link? Sure it's part of his identity, but this is fantasy, you're allowed to change it up. I don't see why a character in general has to stay a certain for all eternity. If it's part of their identity, start a new continuity, change up their identity, explore new things. Why can't Peter Parker be black? Why can't it be Batman be referred to as she? So long as the bare fundamentals of that character is done I don't see the harm in changing things up.

I see the arguments saying, just make a game where you play as Zelda, but that's not the same, because Zelda isn't Link.

Maybe because it's an unnecessary change that could possibly turn fans on the franchise.

For everyone that says "why not" there are ten people saying "but why". No need to fix something that's not broken.

 

[Champ Gold]

The problem is that Link stop being an Avatar a long time ago. He could be easily considered one since LOZ1 but post-ALTTP, Link went from a speechless protagonist to a character with his own unique traits and characteristics. Since then he has been having a unique personality for a while and then there his relationship with other characters especially Zelda in games like WW, ST and SS.

 

[Kurri ★]

Maybe because it's an unnecessary change that could possibly turn fans on the franchise.

For everyone that says "why not" there are ten people saying "but why". No need to fix something that's not broken.

But it's not unnecessary. It's a great way to not only include, but also represent other groups of people. If you're not a white christian male, there really isn't much out there for you. So when a long running series does represent you, it feels pretty great. Many will say, why not make your own, but I'll ask keep asking, why not change it up? Peter Parker is now Patricia Parker, a 16 y/o muslim girl who gets bit by a radioactive spider. There's so many different things you can explore just by doing this. But the most imporant thing is that It could make more people invested in the series, people who would've never picked it up had they never took the chance to change.

 

[Carrill]

I'm on Kurri's side. I disgree that there's no reason to fix what's already not broken. From Final Fantasies I-V, the series was medieval and then, it moved to a steampunk setting. Then, it moved to an even more futuristic setting and reached it's peak of popularity. They fixed something that wasn't broken and found a whole new audience.

Marvel does a lot of similar stuff and it works for them. They reintroduced Ms. Marvel as a Kamala Khan, a young Muslim woman and she's had a pretty successful following from what I understand. They're doing the same thing with Thor too.

Making Link female could potentially work for them and I'd like to see them try it.

 

[FunAtParties]

But it's not unnecessary. It's a great way to not only include, but also represent other groups of people. If you're not a white christian male, there really isn't much out there for you. So when a long running series does represent you, it feels pretty great. Many will say, why not make your own, but I'll ask keep asking, why not change it up? Peter Parker is now Patricia Parker, a 16 y/o muslim girl who gets bit by a radioactive spider. There's so many different things you can explore just by doing this. But the most imporant thing is that It could make more people invested in the series, people who would've never picked it up had they never took the chance to change.

*sigh*

We're clearly at a difference of opinion, and I'm just going to stop it here. I know you think I'm probably making the dumbest "points", just as I think you are. This won't go anywhere, I already know it.

I'll never understand the feeling of, "I can't like this enough, because the character isn't my gender" maybe it's because I'm a white male, or maybe it's because when playing Metroid or Tomb Raider it just never got in my way. I'll always think changing characters gender, race, species, etc... is stupid whether Nintendo does it, Marvel does it, or anyone else. It will always seem to me like a completely forced, unoriginal, and unnecessary decision, made only to satisfy a small subsection of the fandom, and I'll never stand for it.

So I'm done. If you want you could say you win, I don't care. I'm more annoyed by this then I probably should be, and feel like this debate won't end well if I continue so I'm calling it.

 

[Iceweasel]

If Zelda can't be, why not just make a female Link? Sure it's part of his identity, but this is fantasy, you're allowed to change it up. I don't see why a character in general has to stay a certain for all eternity. If it's part of their identity, start a new continuity, change up their identity, explore new things. Why can't Peter Parker be black? Why can't it be Batman be referred to as she? So long as the bare fundamentals of that character is done I don't see the harm in changing things up.

Just because it's fantasy doesn't give you an easy out to ignore continuity to improve "representation". As though not playing as a character that looks exactly like you means that you can't relate to them in any way. Link is a legacy character. For further reading, TV Tropes. To be recognized as the character, certain aspects must stay the same. All of the Links have been very similar. They're all left-handed, male Hylian youths that are tougher than they look, and have strange taste in clothing. Minor aspects change - Sometimes Link is a smith's apprentice, sometimes he was raised by the Lost Boys the Kokiri, and sometimes he's just the nephew of a guy who owns a sword. Yet aside from minor background differences, and the occasional hair dye, Link has always been more or less the same bishie he is today.

PS - I don't think female representation is as big a problem as some might have you believe. My main game shelf is sitting to the left of me, and almost every game on it that features human characters has a female that is either A) Playable, B) Important to the plot, or C) Does really cool stuff.

PPS - I do feel that Zelda needs a reboot, but that's mainly because Nintendo has done some really stupid things with the lore recently. It started with Four Swords on GBA and the worst example yet is SS. Declare Ocarina as the only canon game and set some unbreakable ground rules for the rest of the series.

PPPS - Stop replying while I'm typing, everybody! @ Carrill Didn't Marvel just do a reboot in the last couple of years? That's not the same Ms. Marvel as the old universe, it's a completely different character in a completely different universe. Forgive my ignorance on comic books, but has that fundamentally changed the character? If so, was it for the better? Or was it just a marketing move so Marvel can say, "Hey, look at us! We're progressive and stuff!"

I honestly wouldn't mind knowing. I tried looking it up on Google, and got the big "why no fem Link" in all the results. So if you wouldn't mind...

This theory is long and detailed, and you may not agree with all of it. That said, many of the arguments against Hero Zelda use a variation on this, or at least touch on several of the same points. Actually, this theory was invented to explain something completely different, so it'll sound off-topic, but it works in this context too. Just give it a minute to get to the relevant part. It's also been partially Jossed by Skyward Sword, but I generally try to pretend that Skyward Sword was a bad dream, and that the real Zelda Wii game was cancelled due to unspecified development issues. Just take what bits you find relevant and try to rework them into another theory, if you want.

All wielders of the Triforce have been chosen by the Golden Goddesses to possess their particular piece. When Ganondorf laid hands on the Triforce, it split itself into three pieces, that of Power, Wisdom, and Courage. Because the one who attempted to claim the Triforce had his heart out of balance, he couldn't claim the whole, and the remaining pieces went to those who embodied these virtues the most. The spirit of Zelda, the wise ruler, has dominion over the Triforce of Wisdom. The spirit of Link, the courageous hero, has dominion over the Triforce of Courage. How does Ganondorf fit into all this? He seems the odd man out, at first glance. A closer look reveals he's not. The spirit of Ganon, the powerful destroyer, was also chosen. How many others, since the beginnings of the Hylian race, have searched for the power of the gods and found nothing? There is no mention of them in Ocarina, but there had to have been quite a lot of them. Only Ganon had the drive to obtain that power at all costs. The Triforce has been used by the Goddesses to keep Hyrule's legacy alive. When its temples have become forgotten, its treasures locked away in chests and caves, and its history has become nothing but half-fantasy children's tales and rumors, the powerful spirit of destruction ravages the land, which causes the courageous spirit of the hero to awaken. The hero finds the treasure, rediscovers the history, and makes the places of worship fit for ordinary citizens. Though Hyrule has been saved from the evil, it's still in a poor state. Pillaging monsters tend to wreck the place a little. To and lead the reconstruction, the wise ruler could use a little extra help from the gods to make sure everything goes swiftly and smoothly. Once that's done, Hyrule needs to return to peace and order quickly, to enjoy its next Golden Age as long as possible, before the cycle repeats itself again. The ruler is tasked with strengthening and prolonging this golden age, once the fighting has been done.

TL;DR: Zelda has been assigned to a non-combat role by her goddesses. Just as Ganondorf can't ever team up with Link, and Link can't ever murder a village for funsies, Zelda can't be the hero of Hyrule. If one monster is a challenge for most ordinary people (i.e. - Peasants that do hard labor), or even Hylian soldiers, how could a soft aristocrat hope to stand a chance? Link can do it because he gets divine help.

 

[FunAtParties]

Just because it's fantasy doesn't give you an easy out to ignore continuity to improve "representation". As though not playing as a character that looks exactly like you means that you can't relate to them in any way. Link is a legacy character. For further reading, TV Tropes. To be recognized as the character, certain aspects must stay the same. All of the Links have been very similar. They're all left-handed, male Hylian youths that are tougher than they look, and have strange taste in clothing. Minor aspects change - Sometimes Link is a smith's apprentice, sometimes he was raised by the Lost Boys the Kokiri, and sometimes he's just the nephew of a guy who owns a sword. Yet aside from minor background differences, and the occasional hair dye, Link has always been more or less the same bishie he is today.

PS - I don't think female representation is as big a problem as some might have you believe. My main game shelf is sitting to the left of me, and almost every game on it that features human characters has a female that is either A) Playable, B) Important to the plot, or C) Does really cool stuff.

PPS - I do feel that Zelda needs a reboot, but that's mainly because Nintendo has done some really stupid things with the lore recently. It started with Four Swords on GBA and the worst example yet is SS. Declare Ocarina as the only canon game and set some unbreakable ground rules for the rest of the series.

PPPS - Stop replying while I'm typing, everybody! @ Carrill Didn't Marvel just do a reboot in the last couple of years? That's not the same Ms. Marvel as the old universe, it's a completely different character in a completely different universe. Forgive my ignorance on comic books, but has that fundamentally changed the character? If so, was it for the better? Or was it just a marketing move so Marvel can say, "Hey, look at us! We're progressive and stuff!"


This theory is long and detailed, and you may not agree with all of it. That said, many of the arguments against Hero Zelda use a variation on this, or at least touch on several of the same points. Actually, this theory was invented to explain something completely different, so it'll sound off-topic, but it works in this context too. Just give it a minute to get to the relevant part. It's also been partially Jossed by Skyward Sword, but I generally try to pretend that Skyward Sword was a bad dream, and that the real Zelda Wii game was cancelled due to unspecified development issues. Just take what bits you find relevant and try to rework them into another theory, if you want.

All wielders of the Triforce have been chosen by the Golden Goddesses to possess their particular piece. When Ganondorf laid hands on the Triforce, it split itself into three pieces, that of Power, Wisdom, and Courage. Because the one who attempted to claim the Triforce had his heart out of balance, he couldn't claim the whole, and the remaining pieces went to those who embodied these virtues the most. The spirit of Zelda, the wise ruler, has dominion over the Triforce of Wisdom. The spirit of Link, the courageous hero, has dominion over the Triforce of Courage. How does Ganondorf fit into all this? He seems the odd man out, at first glance. A closer look reveals he's not. The spirit of Ganon, the powerful destroyer, was also chosen. How many others, since the beginnings of the Hylian race, have searched for the power of the gods and found nothing? There is no mention of them in Ocarina, but there had to have been quite a lot of them. Only Ganon had the drive to obtain that power at all costs. The Triforce has been used by the Goddesses to keep Hyrule's legacy alive. When its temples have become forgotten, its treasures locked away in chests and caves, and its history has become nothing but half-fantasy children's tales and rumors, the powerful spirit of destruction ravages the land, which causes the courageous spirit of the hero to awaken. The hero finds the treasure, rediscovers the history, and makes the places of worship fit for ordinary citizens. Though Hyrule has been saved from the evil, it's still in a poor state. Pillaging monsters tend to wreck the place a little. To and lead the reconstruction, the wise ruler could use a little extra help from the gods to make sure everything goes swiftly and smoothly. Once that's done, Hyrule needs to return to peace and order quickly, to enjoy its next Golden Age as long as possible, before the cycle repeats itself again. The ruler is tasked with strengthening and prolonging this golden age, once the fighting has been done.

TL;DR: Zelda has been assigned to a non-combat role by her goddesses. Just as Ganondorf can't ever team up with Link, and Link can't ever murder a village for funsies, Zelda can't be the hero of Hyrule. If one monster is a challenge for most ordinary people (i.e. - Peasants that do hard labor), or even Hylian soldiers, how could a soft aristocrat hope to stand a chance? Link can do it because he gets divine help.

Thanks. That's all really good to know. Also thanks for summing up most of my thoughts better than I could. I tend to get repetitive, and my arguments stall out because of it. Good to know others feel the same way at the very least. Whenever I have this debate in other places, I feel like I'm the only one.

 

[vexoskeleton]

I think link as a female wouldnt work because thats not how nintendo works. They aren't marvel where they reinvent characters, their characters just about literally never change and thats what most people like about them.

 

[Kurri ★]

I think link as a female wouldnt work because thats not how nintendo works. They aren't marvel where they reinvent characters, their characters just about literally never change and thats what most people like about them.

I'm not angry that they don't change, but I wouldn't but opposed to the idea.

 

[Powerman293]

Xenoblade should be one of Nintendo's A tier franchises that they should push a lot, and give someone else a break.

 

[Iceweasel]

Xenoblade should be one of Nintendo's A tier franchises that they should push a lot, and give someone else a break.

That is pretty unpopular, especially among people who have heard of Xenogears and Xenosaga, two (four, counting Saga 2 and 3) other games done by the people at Monolith Soft. Blade isn't even a franchise, it's its own game that has nothing to do with X. Sort of like how Saga and Gears have nothing to do with each other, they just touch on many of the same themes.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

- Super Mario World is good, but overrated. A lot of it's levels carry on the same theme-- it would have been nice to see more variety in this aspect, the way 3 did with the desert/ice/ocean/giant themed worlds. The biggest issue for me? It's way too easy to cheese everything with a blue yoshi/cape. True, 3 had P-wings, hammer suits, and the like, but those were at least limited in supply. The cape in particular just breaks the game into tiny pieces.

- Earthbound > Mother 3. Both are great, and Mother 3 even improves on Earthbound in some areas. What I liked about Earthbound, however was the way the darker elements of the series "sucker punch" you near the end and catch you off guard. Mother 3 was basically Watchmen from the very beginning.

- Kirby's not really my cup of tea, to be honest. Granted, they look gorgeous, and have great music. I acknowledge that his games are well-made, but they tend to be a tad short and easy for my tastes. I'll take Mario or Sonic any day. Revenge of Meta Knight was pretty sweet though...

- I'm still a fan of the original Mario Kart. It's a bit rough around the edges, but the items took a lot more strategic thinking to use effectively, and it didn't feel like the game was trying SO hard to punish skilled players the way some of the recent installments can. The course designs were brilliant, the game rewarded skill and time investment, and the feather was one of the GOAT items in the history of the series.

I'll probably post more later..