Weekly Matchup Discussion - Meta Knight

[Greward]

if the mk knows the matchup it becomes imposible imo.
i usually try to stop the tornado with upB, or i try to DI out of it and nair, but its not something reliable. fair/bair can stop it on a certain angle with red and yellow pikmins, not sure about the others. yellow fsmash can hit it on a certain angle and i think thats all.
the worst thing about this matchup is that mk puts us on the air its pretty much a stock less. and we havent got the tools for dealing with him since we lack of priority and he has no lag on his moves and pretty much the same range we have.
we have some ok combos on him (if we grab him though its ****ing difficult) and we can kill him early if hes ******** and lets us to usmash him.

 

[IcyLight]

you can not whistle mk's nair from the side. if you whistle his dair he can immediately nair afterwards and kill you. sorry, but if you are off the stage then you are dead unless the mk is bad/doesn't know the matchup

 

[Tin Man]

Long Range: Olimar has the advantage, when I say Long range though, I mean white pikmin toss range, there isnt really much to write here since the only thing going on is Olimar tossing whiteys, and MK dodging or flicking them off

Medium Range: Where this matchup starts. Olimar can spam and every color can hit at this range. This also takes Olimars grab range into consideration. When Olimar spams, MK can hit everything off with any sword attack and this gives MK a lot of options because I mean he has a lot of attacks that kill the pikmin, or at least stops them in their tracks o_O.

MK's Ftilt is beast, it has this ridiculous broken range that can reach our grab range. Olimar can't attack MK directly because MK has way too many options to handle Olimar, MK wins.

Close range: O gawd please don't go here, if ur this close, ur probably in his tornado struggling to get out bu pulling off a Nair, MK wins for sure

On the ground: Olimar has to stay on the ground, it is his best shot at beating this broken character

In the Air: your air speed and fall speed are very slow, whistling MKs attacks will give u a lot of ridiculous damage, MK's Nair last longer then Olimar whistle, and its a kill move, so Olimar is punished for defending . If your not above the stage, you are getting gimped.

Olimar's advantages: Long range, can't do much here though, but it is where MK can't reach Olimar and Olimar can reach MK. Medium range to a certain extent, MK can't be attacked directly, you have to get inside MK's patterns and attack in between, which is hard because of MK's vast amount of options

MK's advantages: So many options and priority, Close range, the Air, the ground to a certain extent, tornado, shuttle loop, O gawd its overwhelming D:

Interesting stuff: Olimar can regular grab and pivot grab the tornado, Olimar can also upB the tornado, and shoot pikmin in it as if the tornado where a basket ball hoop. Purples tossed in the tornado this way can knock MK out of it (don't rely on it though, upB, and grabbing it is your best bet, Olimar has a small shield so it gets eaten up by the tornado like crazy >.>

Stages

Neutrals: go for FD, then Smashville, then Battlefeild in that order.

avoiding YI and LC because the slants of the stage **** up pikmin toss. FD is the stage that allowes for the most spam, and smashville moving platform gives us a shot a a better recovery, and a chance for mixups, when it is on the outside where Olimar is recovering

CP: CP Halberd, low ceiling = ^.^, also cp FD, spam spam spam (if you can )

Ban: Rainbow cruise (although the 3rd section of the stage has a low ceiling), Jungle japes (the worst stage in this matchup IMO, High ceiling, and Olimar can get shafted by the water), Frigate (Although I think this stage can be worked around).

 

[Llumys]

Lol @ slants messing up Olimar. Learn to deal with 'em; they're not a problem at all.

I'm not too familiar on the popular opinion about vs. Meta on Yoshi's, but I'm fairly certain it's a better idea to fight him there rather than Battlefield. Also, Meta Knight loves Smashville, and will probably strike Final Destination.

Rainbow Cruise is definitely the stage to ban if you're staying Olimar. Personally, I'd rather play on Japes due to the amount of tricksies that are possible. Frigate's not a problem.

Anyway, this match-up has to be played a lot differently than others. I rarely toss, and focus more on surviving and punishing whenever possible, though the opportunity remains somewhat rare.

Edit: Yellows & Purples <33

 

[Noa.]

You can SDI out of the tornado. No matter how good they are, if you do it correctly, it shouldn't be a problem. The first hitbox of the tornado that hits you sucks you into the tornado. You have to SDI the first hit into the tornado, and then up. In and then up. That's how I do it anyway.



What's not guranteed is SDI>nair. Or so I've heard. If MKs tornado correctly, you can't nair them afterward.



I find that most successful tornados against Olimar is because when Mk Tornado'd, Oli was doing something. At close range the tornado is easy to beat since most moves can outprioritize the first few frames of the tornado. At long range it's easy to anticipate and easy to pivot grab or pivot tether. MK's tornado is most effective against Oli just outside of Oli's grab/fsmash range. If Oli whiffs any move while MK is there, he gets a practically free tornado. So it's important that while MK is within that space, to not make any move. If you jump you're vulnerable, if you fsmash you're vulnerable, you're vulnerable if you grab. At that range you have to be patient and wait until after the MK moves from there, or you reposition yourself.



That situation is the most recurring one I've seen in the Oli:Mk vids that I've watched.



Just gotta be careful.

I recover well against MK. For me it's not auto-gimp anyway. I have a problem with stopping MK from getting me offstage though.

 

[RichBrown]

I whistle everything though, even MK's tornado when he has the stopclock thing

Ok not really but I'm good at whistling stuff.

Recovering against MK is difficult but not impossible. You have some options: attack him, whistle bounce away and tether, fastfall a dair/fair, airdodge (not recommended but it is an options sometimes). I tend to forget that when MK is out trying to gimp me, that means he's not on the ledge. I tend to try to make it back to the stage without tethering, but I'm trying to remember that if the ledge is open, take it. With 6 pikmin our tether is really long, and because MKs like to come out at us now, we can just tether. For the most part I'm good at recovering against MK, and in general.

EDIT: Don't go battlefield against MK unless you literally never want to land. PS1 is a much better option.

 

[Noa.]

Yeah, recovering against MK isn't an impossible feat. When you look at all of Oli's options to recover individually, he looks ****ed. But you should take all of them as a whole. You need to be alert, creative, and unpredictable when recovering. You have more options then you think to recover. Aerials, whistle, upB to snap to the ledge, upB to get the boost, pikmin toss when it's purple, whistling, airdodging, footstooling (yes, I do use this to recover against mk), and double jumping. Recovery high and low. Always DI correctly.

 

[Llumys]

Creativity is the key factor, honestly.

 

[Johnny Citrus]

This is a really frustrating matchup lol...The whistle is so important in this one, it saves you from nair, dsmash and shuttleloop kills a lot (just saying this since everyone's talking about the whistle haha). Just be careful if you whistle as you're landing the mk will probably be smart enough to grab you instead of dsmashing.

Besides Rainbow Cruise another stage that I think really hurts Olimar in this matchup is Brinstar because of how MK players can take advantage of being able to approach from beneath the stage.

 

[*_Echo_*]

at recovering against MK, and in general.

EDIT: Don't go battlefield against MK unless you literally never want to land. PS1 is a much better option.

really? i beat badnewsbear at BF, all u have to do is sit under the ledge and grab/piviot grab, of course the nado will be a problem but besides that just camp under the ledge and u should be fine. This could just be my lack of experience vs MK's and bear might not have known the matchup real well, but that stage helped me out alot that set ^^;

 

[Fino]

This MU is pretty boring to watch lol =/
Sudai Affinity Inui Dojo gnes m2k lain sliq dabuz fatal ally hylian dmg bwett meep ultimate razor adhd ksizzle lol you name searchers

~Fino

 

[Llumys]

Most of Meta Knight's match-ups are.

I don't think our main concern is spectating the match-up, though.

 

[Van Jones]

I wouldn't put too much stock into that win, Echo. I made a bad mistake and decide to get blazed right before that set. I've never played high before in my life, and the results showed.

I would gladly take any Oli to BF (as apposed to other neutrals). If you want to see how bad it can get, catch me in tourney or a MM at the next tourney.

 

[Dabuz]

This MU is pretty boring to watch lol =/
Sudai Affinity Inui Dojo gnes m2k lain sliq dabuz fatal ally hylian dmg bwett meep ultimate razor adhd ksizzle lol you name searchers

~Fino

*namesearches, finds thread* don't side-B, spam more grabs, win

*leaves*

 

[Zori]

looooool fino exposed many people

 

[*_Echo_*]

I wouldn't put too much stock into that win, Echo. I made a bad mistake and decide to get blazed right before that set. I've never played high before in my life, and the results showed.

I would gladly take any Oli to BF (as apposed to other neutrals). If you want to see how bad it can get, catch me in tourney or a MM at the next tourney.

yea i thought something was wrong with u that set, it seemed a lil to easy ^^; (no disrespect i know ur a good player)

 

[Denti]

allow me to share how i approach the big MK, I'm pretty decent at this MU

alright, the thing i like to imagine is i like to imagine MK dancing to the beat of the olimar it's fighting, if the MK finds a miss step they will approach. a quote I've been told about smash that i find very insightful is kinda silly but it is "I like to imagine situations in smash like the ACT, the time is pressure but if you get an answer wrong you get punished for it, but if you know the answer, you'll get it right with no punishment".

How i deal with MK is spamming pikmin toss to pressure him to approach. he will Dair camp you until he finds his approach then he is going to Dair or tornado you, so watch your spacing. MKs also notice that all you'll do is pikmin spam so they will mind game dash grabs followed with down throw, you can generally spot their approach if you constantly pay close attention. when you are being juggled off the stage is when MKs shine. they will dash grab down throw you off, U air and Dair you constantly off the stage. my option is try to find a purple in your line and fast and pikmin toss the purple and use that as an approach back on. you can also watch their pattern to get back on stage, sometimes a easy thing to do.

How to deal with tornado.
You can pivot grab tornado, but if they space it right above your grab range your only options are to run or to shield, i prefer shield. if they stop their tornado right on your olimar you can Down smash if they notice they aren't going to get threw your shield they tornado away from you then you chase them then grab.

how to deal with MK on RC.
Now everyone believes that MK destroys olimar on RC, if you don't ban RC almost anyone who can play MK well will take you there as MK. don't be deceived, you can beat them hard! on the Boat if your olimar is on the right side on the higher part of the ship you can space smashes and what not. if you both are on the boat left side it's best to grab the ledge and plank until you reach the next phase of RC. when your on the climbing portion of RC ive always found it best to be under platforms on MK. Uair, up special and pikmin toss. all are great choices when your on the swing part its best not to use the swing imo, stay above and avoid MK at all cost, you lack defense during this section. when the screen is on the swing and the swing is going from the right side moving to the left and you jump all the way to the right and land on the spawning platform. the next section of the stage is long and flat with a low ceiling, so get real aggressive. when the stage is transforming back to the boat you have 2 ways of getting to the boat, following the path or taking the falling blocks. i prefer the falling blocks. if you take the other way they will try and gimp you and it will probably happen and you'll lose a stock. but if you take the falling blocks then as your falling if they try to go underneath and punish you. when that happens just F smash, they never expect a falling platform F smash.. or just air dodge, you wont have them chasing you threw the air too long if you take this rout because the you'll be on the boat quicker.

 

[Tin Man]

This is a really frustrating matchup lol...The whistle is so important in this one, it saves you from nair, dsmash and shuttleloop kills a lot (just saying this since everyone's talking about the whistle haha). Just be careful if you whistle as you're landing the mk will probably be smart enough to grab you instead of dsmashing.

Besides Rainbow Cruise another stage that I think really hurts Olimar in this matchup is Brinstar because of how MK players can take advantage of being able to approach from beneath the stage.

brotown...

Nair goes though whislte, through ALL OF IT!!!!

Brinstar can prove to be quite good, Olimar doesn't get gimped often, and When the lava rises, mk can't approach from under the stage

 

[Fino]

I wouldn't put too much stock into that win, Echo. I made a bad mistake and decide to get blazed right before that set. I've never played high before in my life, and the results showed.

I would gladly take any Oli to BF (as apposed to other neutrals). If you want to see how bad it can get, catch me in tourney or a MM at the next tourney.

No jones bearzy :D
<3

allow me to share how i main blue gloves

I just died a little on the inside.

brotown...

Nair goes though whislte, through ALL OF IT!!!!

Brinstar can prove to be quite good, Olimar doesn't get gimped often, and When the lava rises, mk can't approach from under the stage

You can whistle through nair, and nair him before he can do anything. I do it everytime.
Also, I take it you've never been hard core sharked by a meta knight... don't go to brinstar <.<


~Fino

 

[Llumys]

Brinstar?

... against Meta Knight?

<_<;

I'd rather take him to Rainbow Cruise.

 

[Tin Man]

i guess its personal preference, if u know how to use a stage, anything can b ur cp

 

[Fino]

i guess its personal preference, if u know how to use a stage, anything can b ur cp

I know how to play on japes... so I'm going to start counterpicking falco and peach there.

There's a difference between being good at a stage because you know it, and being good at a stage because your character is good there.

Play a texas metaknight on brinstar. I guarantee you with in the first 10 seconds of the match they will have gotten 2-3 ledge grabs. Not planking you... just sharking uairs and tornados. You can't do much about it either. It's like giving metaknight the opportunity to attack you as if you're in the air for the entire match.
Good idea or Great idea?


~Fino

 

[professor mgw]

I tend to CP long stages against meta knight (i.e FD & smashville) but none with a low platform. I feel comfortable on FD and I have more space 2 work with.

 

[Llumys]

How about we start this again?

Also, for the record, I don't mind Frigate, Japes and Cruise. Also, Smashville isn't really long. <_<;

* Battlefield: 2/5
* Final Destination: 3/5
* Lylat Cruise: 2/5
* Smashville: 3/5
* Yoshi's Island: ???
* Battleship Halberd: 4/5
* Brinstar: 1/5
* Castle Siege: ???
* Delfino Plaza: 2/5
* Frigate Orpheon: 2/5
* Jungle Japes: 2/5
* Pictochat: 3/5
* Pokémon Stadium: 3/5
* Rainbow Cruise: 2/5

Any major disagreements? I can see Halberd being a 3 due to the first transformation's main platform. Smashville being a 2 would be completely understandable as well.

 

[Noa.]

I know how to play on japes... so I'm going to start counterpicking falco and peach there.

There's a difference between being good at a stage because you know it, and being good at a stage because your character is good there.

Play a texas metaknight on brinstar. I guarantee you with in the first 10 seconds of the match they will have gotten 2-3 ledge grabs. Not planking you... just sharking uairs and tornados. You can't do much about it either. It's like giving metaknight the opportunity to attack you as if you're in the air for the entire match.
Good idea or Great idea?


~Fino

Just for the record, Japes is an amazing counterpick against Peach. It's pratically a guranteed win against her.

 

[Denti]

get some MK on RC is just dandy dawg! being honest it's not that bad, you can call it playing gay or whatever but as long as you always get away from situations you know you might not win or wont win is the key to victory there for OLIboy.

TEXAS MKs..... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMm they can suck my prolimar! if they plank i'll just get all purple or something.. I've got a 20$ MM with Dojo and a 10$ MM with bear lol. I know i got the MU down, i ALMOST beat Pingu and his MK is the best one I've played so far, so they are probably just full of themselves.

lets make sure we decide which stages are the best for this MU, i need to be aware all the stages oli sucks at so i can practice more. Generally for me I would take MKs when striking to preferably YI, next FD, next SV. then i'd generally ban Brinstar and expect RC or frigate as their CP, then when i CP depending on how i feel about their playstyle I'll take them to Halberd, FD, or YI. any suggestions? would japes be good for oli in this MU too? the high cieling screws me over sometimes

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

get some MK on RC is just dandy dawg! being honest it's not that bad, you can call it playing gay or whatever but as long as you always get away from situations you know you might not win or wont win is the key to victory there for OLIboy.

TEXAS MKs..... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMm they can suck my prolimar! if they plank i'll just get all purple or something.. I've got a 20$ MM with Dojo and a 10$ MM with bear lol. I know i got the MU down, i ALMOST beat Pingu and his MK is the best one I've played so far, so they are probably just full of themselves.

lets make sure we decide which stages are the best for this MU, i need to be aware all the stages oli sucks at so i can practice more. Generally for me I would take MKs when striking to preferably YI, next FD, next SV. then i'd generally ban Brinstar and expect RC or frigate as their CP, then when i CP depending on how i feel about their playstyle I'll take them to Halberd, FD, or YI. any suggestions? would japes be good for oli in this MU too? the high cieling screws me over sometimes

Are you being serious or just trolling because I really can't tell.

 

[Llumys]

After recent experience, I've realized Halberd has more downsides than I once believed.

The first phase leads to sharking. The second phase is great.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

After recent experience, I've realized Halberd has more downsides than I once believed.

The first phase leads to sharking. The second phase is great.

Yeah the sharking bit is a problem unless of course you're snake.

 

[Llumys]

» Smash World Forums » Super Smash Bros. Brawl » Brawl Character Discussion » Olimar

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

» Smash World Forums » Super Smash Bros. Brawl » Brawl Character Discussion » Olimar

Yeah man I know, speaking of snake lets discuss the snake match up next yes? no?

 

[DanGR]

With planking/circle camping legal Smashville is a pretty terrible stage for Olimar against MK. He doesn't run quickly enough to have a chance if you ever... ever lose a percent lead. It's game at that point.

People may start banning it against me when I use MK, lol.

edit: Oh, wait. The TOs over here will probably just ban it. *shrugs*

 

[Llumys]

I usually strike Battlefield and Smashville.

Could we discuss Toon Link next? I know we're not done this one yet. <_<;

 

[Dabuz]

Yeah man I know, speaking of snake lets discuss the snake match up next yes? no?

ummm...this post has made me realized something interesting...this is how matchup discussions go on oli boards:

ok, lets discuss snake, DISCUSSED, NOTHING CHANGES!

*half of olimars say they have diddy trouble* richbrown writes an essay on diddy,

next one everyone complains about MK, he is next to be discussed, all everyone says is camp and don't get gimped

after that, LETS GO SNAKE!!! *see first snake discussion*

random character is discussed, we actually make progress and never discuss that matchup again

MORE MK DISCUSSION!!!!!

diddy again!

snake for third time

and that is the story of how the oli boards pick matchups to discuss xD[/COLOR]

 

[Llumys]

Snake counters Olimar.

 

[Denti]

I must agree with dabuz, that is how things happen. all i learn is 1 new thing or something.

 

[Zori]

diddy halp plz!!!

*waits for richbrown*

LOL

 

[RichBrown]

To be fair, Dabuz, the MK, Snake, and Diddy matchups are never ending battles. All 3 characters have ever expanding metagames, so our matchup discussions get out of date pretty quickly.

Time for an abridged diddy essay:

Make him afraid to pull out bananas. Your normal tricks will not work on this character. Learn some banana tricksies. A somewhat effective way to edgeguard diddy is to throw the banana straight up in the air at the edge and then grab the ledge as he's charging upB. Everyone always tries to throw the banana right at him but it never works.

If he's got both bananas, put a wall in front of you so the bananas can't get through. Maybe try to control one, or shield and wait for him to run at you (since all diddys do that) something like that. This matchup isn't as easy as it used to be but it's still in our favor. But seriously learn banana control. Maybe go to training mode and set it to 2 bananas and just figure out what you can do. Throw a purple, then a banana. Throw a banana, then a purple. Throw a yellow then a banana. throw the banana instantly. Throw sideB a lot and then the banana. Throw the banana straight up in the air (or down) and grab. SO MANY ****ING OPTIONS.

 

[Denti]

all this diddy help on the MK thread. oh baby

good diddy stuff tho.

seriously tho, you guys need to try pikmin line filtering for fighting MK. yellow and purples really. blues if he is like at 120 or more. yellows to beat an approaching tornado when you lack defense and purples cuz... when do you not want a purple??

edit:stages are way important in this MU.

don't take MK to brinstar, just don't. unless they lack the thought process to go from underneath the stage, but if they lack that you shouldn't have trouble beating a silly MK anyways so don't sweat it. if you ban brinstar they will take you to RC unless they feel more comfortable with frigate (or if they are the kind of people that love neutrals only they will take you to BF). watch out for stages against MK, they will CP you and probably win that round because of it. think like an MK and you should be able to counter appropriately. I really liked what Llumys said and it's so true, creativity is the key to recover in this MU. think outside the box, seriously. what you can do is when they do their Dair camp approach thing is find an opponening and U air and teather. if you do this the MK will start to feel uncertain about their approach, they will have to think then punish them for being scared. i really want this MU never to be a problem for olimar, lets make that happen with this thread. lets give those MKs something new to think about, Uair beats their crap and so does teather. we can always win this MU, even against the hardest of MKs.

 

[Tin Man]

I agree with roch brown, snake, diddy, and MK have ever expanding metagames, so yeah our matchups discussions will get out of date as those charatcers get better and better we gotta step this up

apparently purple U smash goes through tornado?!? o_O