Llumys
Smash Champion
I wouldn't be surprised. I think I may have done that before. I could be mistaking it for something else, though.
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Weekly Matchup Discussion - Meta Knight
- Thread starter DtJ Hilt
- Start date
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
diddy doesn't change...people just don't learn...snake changes every 6 months, and metaknight changes every 6 months, its just every 3 weeks another one becomes current with the olimar matchup strategies and make an olimar's go "0MG MK IS SO STOOPIDLY GOOD AGAINST 0LI, DISCUSS HIM NOA FOR ME PL3AS3!!!!!!!!!!!
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
Unless purples have some sort of hidden property I'm not aware of, no. It doesn't work like that, he eh.
You can do just about anything to him during the initial startup, but past that purple upsmash shouldn't work.
____________________
Anyone for the idea of shortening "color of pikmin + attack name" into one small word?
For example, purple upsmash would be p-upsmash.
p-fsmash
y-fair
w-dsmash
b-bthrow
etc.
In total, I've probably typed out pikmin colors for about a good hour, lol.
Everyone would have to understand what it means, though, for anyone to use it.
edit: And I agree with Dabuz, lulz.
Fino
Smash Master
purple break the nado from the top, just like our nair does.
Negrolimar is obviously the best pick against mk, cuz tossin dem pikmin n the nado b lik shootin hoops.
~Fino
Negrolimar is obviously the best pick against mk, cuz tossin dem pikmin n the nado b lik shootin hoops.
~Fino
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
purple seems to just have an extended hitbox duration that carries over if its hit to after the hitbox on it is gone, at least thats what it seems like to me
Tin Man
Smash Hero
this is what MK's think of the matchup
__________________________________________________
Don't ever dash attack or fair into Olimar. Hell, just don't attack his shield with any move that leaves you on the ground afterwards. That's just asking to take 15%+ from a grab + whatever followup he wants. If he wants to camp you, you could stay in one spot and just continuously nair the Pikmin off (don't worry about it staling, you only need a little tap with it to gimp Olimar anyway). If you manage to get close, attack the high diagonal angles of his shield (i.e. if Olimar is facing left, attack northwest and northeast). Usmash only hits you if it's in between your dairs, otherwise the dair will knock the Pikmin away.
Side Bing straight into Olimar's shield actually isn't a bad idea if it's slightly depleted. Side B pokes shields ridiculously well, and Olimar will have a lot of trouble shieldgrabbing it with his lack of grab armor. Even better if you know the perfect ledge cancel distance. You can push him off with side B and immediately nair. Should be a free stock, if not, chase with dair or another nair. Down B/side B/jump right back to the edge and you're good.
A little trick that good Olimars like to do is uair you from below when you're edgehogging them. The move has deceptively high hitboxes and lasts long, which may outlast your invincibility. Watch out for this when they have 4-6 Pikmin, as it'll allow them to afford the drop from uair and then immediately up B to the edge. By deceptively high, I mean super ****ing high, lol. Uair goes through the sides of Battlefield from under the stage.
If you're above Olimar, you have barely any options. His uair can and will beat your dair. Prepare to take 25% from red Pikmin, 20-22ish from yellow, and close to 20 from blue/purple. Smash DI up to get out of this, the hitbox is pretty wide too. If you can, move to his sides and bair/fair him (this is pretty difficult due to MK's slow air speed though). Being above anyone in this game sucks, Olimar's certainly not an exception.
If you manage to grab him, either fthrow or bthrow him (preferably the one closest to the edge). Bait the dodge, then up B/nair/dair, or if he's at super low percents, uair chains into up B/nair/tornado. Tornado should really only be used when he's landing, otherwise you face the dangers of getting pivot grabbed. Either suck him out of his air dodge with it, or move so his nair won't touch you (it only beats tornado from the top center).
NEVER glide into Olimar! Usmash clashes with glide attack and he'll have frame advantage, uair beats it, and all his other aerials clash with it if spaced right (nair will beat it from a very strange angle, though). He can also shieldgrab it fully spaced with any Pikmin except purple, and if he's fast, fsmash out of shield. Up B also totally demolishes gliding, and if you're not prepared, you might find yourself dying pretty early. I believe the Pikmin CLOSEST to Olimar indicates the type of attack that his up B will do.
If you get hit by nair, SMASH DI UP. This move easily combos into dsmash or usmash, both of which kill MK rather early. His aerials are all really dangerous, but lack range so much that it's almost funny. Fair and bair do something like 13 damage each and will kill you at high percents. Dair's non-spike hitboxes are REALLY strong at the beginning, but not so much afterwards. If he doesn't autocancel his aerials, they all have really nasty landing lag (with the exception of nair, it's not that bad). Punish accordingly, grab/dsmash/ftilt preferred.
Olimar's smashes are straight ridiculous. Dsmash has a nasty angle and will kill MK at around 110 with perfect DI with red and blue Pikmin. Usmash kills around 105 for red/blue and 80, yes, EIGHTY PERCENT, with purple. Luckily you can just swat them away with your dair, but if Olimar sees an opportunity to run in and punish you with usmash, he will certainly take it. This means at high percents, be very sparing with your usage of tornado. It's VERY punishable, and purple Pikmin usmashes will beat it head on. Olimar's fsmash is incredibly safe and long-ranged, and he'll use this as a mix-up as you approach him through his camping (he'll switch between fsmash and grab most of the time, both are very damaging). Purple fsmash is incredibly strong, but luckily has super short range and won't hit you if you're careful with your spacing/approaches. It's not gonna touch you if you're off the ground a little bit. Also, be wary of fsmash when you're on the edge. It has ridiculous active frames that last even when the Pikmin is falling off the stage! He can also grab you from under the ledge with any Pikmin besides purple. Just outguess him on the edge and you should be able to return without problems.
As someone mentioned earlier, never dsmash just to dsmash. The move is ridiculously unsafe on block, especially on a character like Olimar with insane grab range. If you're gonna be using any smash on him, it should be fsmash. It's VERY safe on block vs. Olimar (lol 11 frame grab). Most Olimars with matchup experience will expect the standard fsmash -> dsmash on the shield and continue shielding. I like to follow up fsmashes with dash grabs or ftilts. Dash grabbing is more effective on Olimar most of the time, but it comes down to the opponent's habits and how he reacts when his shield is hit. Choose carefully. Alternatively, you could predict his obvious attempt at trying to shieldgrab fsmash -> dsmash and just spot dodge the grab and punish with dair/dsmash/grab...just try outguessing him. Point is, dsmash is very unsafe, and should only be used to punish (as in, when you're sure it will hit).
Off the stage, be prepared for whistle and air dodge combinations. Nair outlasts the whistle if they're used at the same time, and the weak hit will tap him away. This is enough to either gimp him or set him up for another nair/dair. If he's above the edge, he's got much better chances of making it back. Just wait for him to do something and nair it away (dair if you manage to get on top of him). If you knock him out of his second jump, his stock is yours. Just be wary of the tiny little hop his up B gives him, and its lagless landing on the stage. Shouldn't really be any trouble once you knock him off.
Like I said before, grabbing = lots of damage. Blue throws deal close to 15 damage on their own, plus pummels and followups. Dthrow -> usmash -> uair is over 40 damage with the right Pikmin (blue red red is the proper combination, I believe). White grabs not only have the most range, but deal 3-4% per pummel. They also have the lowest knockback, leading to followups at higher percents than normal. Know what's even worse? Olimar can kill you from his grabs. Blue bthrow will finish you at about 130 with good DI. Purple uthrow kills at about 105...but luckily it's got the least range and Olimar's lack of grab armor makes it difficult for him to grab you that close up (provided your spacing game is on).
Stages to ban:
For the first round, strike FD and Battlefield. Olimar loves both of these stages a lot. My advice is to ban either Halberd or FD. Halberd's low ceilings are very good for Olimar, given that most of his kill power is off the top. FD should be obvious, as he can just freely camp your balls off there, and you have a humongous flat stage to traverse before you can touch him. He's amazing on Luigi's Mansion (if it's legal, it certainly isn't here), but you're good there too. Same goes for Norfair--more ledges for him to grab on, but MK is amazing there as well.
Stages to use:
Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Delfino Plaza, Jungle Japes (where it's allowed).
Rainbow should be obvious for the most part. No ledges for over half the level. However, the ceiling at the top part of the level is insanely low.
Frigate is great on the first transformation, but ends up working really well for him on the second one...it also has a slightly lower ceiling than the neutrals, so watch out.
Delfino is great on almost every transformation. If he lands in water, all of his non-blue Pikmin die. You can camp underneath the stage on the floating platform and Shine Tower parts, which works. The sand mound has a low ceiling, though, and watch for the walkoffs.
Japes is your best choice, but may not be available. The high ceiling hurts him and doesn't affect you at all. He's boned as soon as he's in the water--all his Pikmin will die and the water will rush him off to his death. The varying platform levels help you pressure him, as do thin floors--you can uair him through the platforms on the side if you're feeling ballsy. If this stage is on, take Olimar here! If he bans it or it's illegal, Delfino is probably your next best choice, followed by Rainbow and then Frigate.
Overall matchup ratios:
55:45 MK on neutrals and Halberd, 60:40 on counterpicks."
__________________________________________________
Don't ever dash attack or fair into Olimar. Hell, just don't attack his shield with any move that leaves you on the ground afterwards. That's just asking to take 15%+ from a grab + whatever followup he wants. If he wants to camp you, you could stay in one spot and just continuously nair the Pikmin off (don't worry about it staling, you only need a little tap with it to gimp Olimar anyway). If you manage to get close, attack the high diagonal angles of his shield (i.e. if Olimar is facing left, attack northwest and northeast). Usmash only hits you if it's in between your dairs, otherwise the dair will knock the Pikmin away.
Side Bing straight into Olimar's shield actually isn't a bad idea if it's slightly depleted. Side B pokes shields ridiculously well, and Olimar will have a lot of trouble shieldgrabbing it with his lack of grab armor. Even better if you know the perfect ledge cancel distance. You can push him off with side B and immediately nair. Should be a free stock, if not, chase with dair or another nair. Down B/side B/jump right back to the edge and you're good.
A little trick that good Olimars like to do is uair you from below when you're edgehogging them. The move has deceptively high hitboxes and lasts long, which may outlast your invincibility. Watch out for this when they have 4-6 Pikmin, as it'll allow them to afford the drop from uair and then immediately up B to the edge. By deceptively high, I mean super ****ing high, lol. Uair goes through the sides of Battlefield from under the stage.
If you're above Olimar, you have barely any options. His uair can and will beat your dair. Prepare to take 25% from red Pikmin, 20-22ish from yellow, and close to 20 from blue/purple. Smash DI up to get out of this, the hitbox is pretty wide too. If you can, move to his sides and bair/fair him (this is pretty difficult due to MK's slow air speed though). Being above anyone in this game sucks, Olimar's certainly not an exception.
If you manage to grab him, either fthrow or bthrow him (preferably the one closest to the edge). Bait the dodge, then up B/nair/dair, or if he's at super low percents, uair chains into up B/nair/tornado. Tornado should really only be used when he's landing, otherwise you face the dangers of getting pivot grabbed. Either suck him out of his air dodge with it, or move so his nair won't touch you (it only beats tornado from the top center).
NEVER glide into Olimar! Usmash clashes with glide attack and he'll have frame advantage, uair beats it, and all his other aerials clash with it if spaced right (nair will beat it from a very strange angle, though). He can also shieldgrab it fully spaced with any Pikmin except purple, and if he's fast, fsmash out of shield. Up B also totally demolishes gliding, and if you're not prepared, you might find yourself dying pretty early. I believe the Pikmin CLOSEST to Olimar indicates the type of attack that his up B will do.
If you get hit by nair, SMASH DI UP. This move easily combos into dsmash or usmash, both of which kill MK rather early. His aerials are all really dangerous, but lack range so much that it's almost funny. Fair and bair do something like 13 damage each and will kill you at high percents. Dair's non-spike hitboxes are REALLY strong at the beginning, but not so much afterwards. If he doesn't autocancel his aerials, they all have really nasty landing lag (with the exception of nair, it's not that bad). Punish accordingly, grab/dsmash/ftilt preferred.
Olimar's smashes are straight ridiculous. Dsmash has a nasty angle and will kill MK at around 110 with perfect DI with red and blue Pikmin. Usmash kills around 105 for red/blue and 80, yes, EIGHTY PERCENT, with purple. Luckily you can just swat them away with your dair, but if Olimar sees an opportunity to run in and punish you with usmash, he will certainly take it. This means at high percents, be very sparing with your usage of tornado. It's VERY punishable, and purple Pikmin usmashes will beat it head on. Olimar's fsmash is incredibly safe and long-ranged, and he'll use this as a mix-up as you approach him through his camping (he'll switch between fsmash and grab most of the time, both are very damaging). Purple fsmash is incredibly strong, but luckily has super short range and won't hit you if you're careful with your spacing/approaches. It's not gonna touch you if you're off the ground a little bit. Also, be wary of fsmash when you're on the edge. It has ridiculous active frames that last even when the Pikmin is falling off the stage! He can also grab you from under the ledge with any Pikmin besides purple. Just outguess him on the edge and you should be able to return without problems.
As someone mentioned earlier, never dsmash just to dsmash. The move is ridiculously unsafe on block, especially on a character like Olimar with insane grab range. If you're gonna be using any smash on him, it should be fsmash. It's VERY safe on block vs. Olimar (lol 11 frame grab). Most Olimars with matchup experience will expect the standard fsmash -> dsmash on the shield and continue shielding. I like to follow up fsmashes with dash grabs or ftilts. Dash grabbing is more effective on Olimar most of the time, but it comes down to the opponent's habits and how he reacts when his shield is hit. Choose carefully. Alternatively, you could predict his obvious attempt at trying to shieldgrab fsmash -> dsmash and just spot dodge the grab and punish with dair/dsmash/grab...just try outguessing him. Point is, dsmash is very unsafe, and should only be used to punish (as in, when you're sure it will hit).
Off the stage, be prepared for whistle and air dodge combinations. Nair outlasts the whistle if they're used at the same time, and the weak hit will tap him away. This is enough to either gimp him or set him up for another nair/dair. If he's above the edge, he's got much better chances of making it back. Just wait for him to do something and nair it away (dair if you manage to get on top of him). If you knock him out of his second jump, his stock is yours. Just be wary of the tiny little hop his up B gives him, and its lagless landing on the stage. Shouldn't really be any trouble once you knock him off.
Like I said before, grabbing = lots of damage. Blue throws deal close to 15 damage on their own, plus pummels and followups. Dthrow -> usmash -> uair is over 40 damage with the right Pikmin (blue red red is the proper combination, I believe). White grabs not only have the most range, but deal 3-4% per pummel. They also have the lowest knockback, leading to followups at higher percents than normal. Know what's even worse? Olimar can kill you from his grabs. Blue bthrow will finish you at about 130 with good DI. Purple uthrow kills at about 105...but luckily it's got the least range and Olimar's lack of grab armor makes it difficult for him to grab you that close up (provided your spacing game is on).
Stages to ban:
For the first round, strike FD and Battlefield. Olimar loves both of these stages a lot. My advice is to ban either Halberd or FD. Halberd's low ceilings are very good for Olimar, given that most of his kill power is off the top. FD should be obvious, as he can just freely camp your balls off there, and you have a humongous flat stage to traverse before you can touch him. He's amazing on Luigi's Mansion (if it's legal, it certainly isn't here), but you're good there too. Same goes for Norfair--more ledges for him to grab on, but MK is amazing there as well.
Stages to use:
Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Delfino Plaza, Jungle Japes (where it's allowed).
Rainbow should be obvious for the most part. No ledges for over half the level. However, the ceiling at the top part of the level is insanely low.
Frigate is great on the first transformation, but ends up working really well for him on the second one...it also has a slightly lower ceiling than the neutrals, so watch out.
Delfino is great on almost every transformation. If he lands in water, all of his non-blue Pikmin die. You can camp underneath the stage on the floating platform and Shine Tower parts, which works. The sand mound has a low ceiling, though, and watch for the walkoffs.
Japes is your best choice, but may not be available. The high ceiling hurts him and doesn't affect you at all. He's boned as soon as he's in the water--all his Pikmin will die and the water will rush him off to his death. The varying platform levels help you pressure him, as do thin floors--you can uair him through the platforms on the side if you're feeling ballsy. If this stage is on, take Olimar here! If he bans it or it's illegal, Delfino is probably your next best choice, followed by Rainbow and then Frigate.
Overall matchup ratios:
55:45 MK on neutrals and Halberd, 60:40 on counterpicks."
Llumys
Smash Champion
LOL FINO
Edit:
Meta Knight can fair us, he won't get shieldgrabbed.
Meta Knight has plenty of options when we're under him: he can jump.
Also, why are you typing like it's for a Meta Knight main, and why are you mentioning obvious things like how we capitalize grabs?
I think it's at least 60:40 for Meta Knight.
Battlefield is horrible against Meta Knight. Anyway, I don't see why you didn't mention Brinstar, Tin Man. On top of that, Halberd is definitely not great in this match-up. While it does aid our killing, the aerial transformation of the stage is absolutely horrid due to Meta Knight's ability to shark the hell out of us.
Edit:
Meta Knight can fair us, he won't get shieldgrabbed.
Meta Knight has plenty of options when we're under him: he can jump.
Also, why are you typing like it's for a Meta Knight main, and why are you mentioning obvious things like how we capitalize grabs?
I think it's at least 60:40 for Meta Knight.
Battlefield is horrible against Meta Knight. Anyway, I don't see why you didn't mention Brinstar, Tin Man. On top of that, Halberd is definitely not great in this match-up. While it does aid our killing, the aerial transformation of the stage is absolutely horrid due to Meta Knight's ability to shark the hell out of us.
Fino
Smash Master
I couldn't read it all... I already have to gouge one of my eyes out ;-;
~Fino
~Fino
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
Never approach MK. Keep him trying to kill pikmin then get a grab if u can. Throwng pikmin is good in this MU. Its not for the damage but for the pressure. Plus u know he won't nado with pikmin on him. He'll just nair. Bait the nairs.
Llumys
Smash Champion
Bob's post is greater than Tin Man's.
Tin Man
Smash Hero
chill bro, just bringing outside info to the table, its good to see how the other side looks at the matchup.
Weruop
Smash Ace
yummynbeefy
Smash Champion
tbh
its pretty dam even onstage
once you get offstage if the metaknight reads you once your dead
60/40 meta
its pretty dam even onstage
once you get offstage if the metaknight reads you once your dead
60/40 meta
Llumys
Smash Champion
You're also bringing some false information.
Fino
Smash Master
I've said this since day one. Bravo bob... you beat tin man, lol.
~Fino
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
When the hell did u say that? lol
professor mgw
Smash Champion
Play smart and be on guard. Throw pikmin to add pressure, then grab him when the oppertunity presents itself. D-throw followed by Up-smash is a good choice. Stay away from the edge of the stage as much as possible, and watch out for the d-air gimp. Smashing the bottom of the nado and throwing purples inside it is useful. We are obviously outprioritized here so bait him out, and exploit your opponents patterns so that you can punish (if possible) On stage, this MU is not as bad as people make it appear 2 be. I find purple yellow and blue pikmin to be the most effective here.
60:40 in my opinon.
60:40 in my opinon.
Llumys
Smash Champion
I'd rather d-throw > fair Meta Knight, 'cause it's more reliable and we can't juggle him well.
Fino
Smash Master
I'll dthrow fsmash occasionally... I dunno why. Sometimes I can get a charged fsmash.
~Fino
~Fino
Tin Man
Smash Hero
D throw > fair > grab > D throw > fair, pretty good 0-35% combo
camp him, dont approach, read his approaches, punish grounded nado with grab, any pikmin, any color, punish air nado with upB, purple U smash kills at like 80%, yellow, blue, and red kills at like 105%
When in the Nado, DI up then Nair, recovery is is our major weakness, try and save the 2nd jump as much as possible, only momentum cancel with it if absolutely necessary (like you would any other matchup).
60-40 imo, even on ground, recovery is just that big an issue
camp him, dont approach, read his approaches, punish grounded nado with grab, any pikmin, any color, punish air nado with upB, purple U smash kills at like 80%, yellow, blue, and red kills at like 105%
When in the Nado, DI up then Nair, recovery is is our major weakness, try and save the 2nd jump as much as possible, only momentum cancel with it if absolutely necessary (like you would any other matchup).
60-40 imo, even on ground, recovery is just that big an issue
Fino
Smash Master
Fixed
~Fino
Llumys
Smash Champion
Well, obviously there's an infinite amount of mix-ups, but some are more reliable at lower percents.
Down throw to fair repeated usually doesn't work. Down throw to f-smash or fair at 0% is sure to connect, I believe. It's easier to follow-up the f-smash, though.
A good Meta Knight won't use tornado while grounded against an Olimar.
Off-stage, creativity is our friend. In order to recover, just use all your tools wisely.
<3 whistle bouncing
Down throw to fair repeated usually doesn't work. Down throw to f-smash or fair at 0% is sure to connect, I believe. It's easier to follow-up the f-smash, though.
A good Meta Knight won't use tornado while grounded against an Olimar.
Off-stage, creativity is our friend. In order to recover, just use all your tools wisely.
<3 whistle bouncing
Fino
Smash Master
Either people are still being stupid... or I'm just 9 months ahead... I'd like to think the former, cause I sux at this game.
~Fino
Llumys
Smash Champion
lolwat
ur SO GOOD
ur SO GOOD
professor mgw
Smash Champion
Lol
D-throw>F-air at 0% will defenetly be sure to connect. Even at 16% though Mk will punish you with a d-air if you try to pull that off.
Offstage: Whistle is olimar's greatest tool offstage against mk obviously. Purple pikmin toss can throw him mk off while chasing u offstage, so use it from time to time. Spamming it everytime will make it useless because mk will easily dodge it.
I like 2 D-throw>run>Pivot grab when he lands sometimes (better on mostly other chars since most chars don't have more than 2 jumps)
And yeah Llumys D-throw>F-air is great but mk is 2 fast for that really. I chose D-throw to up-smash because oli's up-smash comes out pretty fast and is a sure hit.I also like 2 Up-smash twice at times even because one smash doesn't knock him up that hi so I can follow up with another fast up-smash.
D-throw>yellow UP-smash>Red,blue,white up-smash
---->Purple Up-smash>nothing
--->White Up-smash>any Up-smash
--->red up-smash>anything
--->blue up-smash> anything but purple
D-throw>F-air at 0% will defenetly be sure to connect. Even at 16% though Mk will punish you with a d-air if you try to pull that off.
Offstage: Whistle is olimar's greatest tool offstage against mk obviously. Purple pikmin toss can throw him mk off while chasing u offstage, so use it from time to time. Spamming it everytime will make it useless because mk will easily dodge it.
I like 2 D-throw>run>Pivot grab when he lands sometimes (better on mostly other chars since most chars don't have more than 2 jumps)
And yeah Llumys D-throw>F-air is great but mk is 2 fast for that really. I chose D-throw to up-smash because oli's up-smash comes out pretty fast and is a sure hit.I also like 2 Up-smash twice at times even because one smash doesn't knock him up that hi so I can follow up with another fast up-smash.
D-throw>yellow UP-smash>Red,blue,white up-smash
---->Purple Up-smash>nothing
--->White Up-smash>any Up-smash
--->red up-smash>anything
--->blue up-smash> anything but purple
Tin Man
Smash Hero
what else about MK needs to be discussed, can we come to a conclusion?
Fino
Smash Master
That's all llumys and I were saying, dthrow fair (or fsmash) is your best option at 0. Not at 16%... I have no clue why you brought that up.
If you whistle mks gimp attempts... you're usually able to nair him before he can do anything (depending on his attack). If mk spends time dodging the purple pikmin... it's still effective. You're still forcing mk to do something that you want, and you should be able to react to the following situation in a way that results in you getting back on stage.
It's funny you mention that mk can dair our dthrow fair at 16%... cause mk can DEFINITELY, and good mks will, dair you out of a dthrow pivot grab. LAWL, seriously?
Mk is not "too fast" for dthrow fair. It's guaranteed at very low%. Dthrow usmash is okay at mid-low % because it forces mk to be above you... and most every char above olimar is at a disadvantage. Just make sure you keep applying pressure.
Dthrow double usmash is just as guaranteed and dthrow fair "at 16%" so I wouldn't get at llumys for saying something situational (hell... he even said specifically at zero... you just put words in his mouth) when you're doing the exact same thing.
[sarcasm="9001"]Hey, you know what I like to do? dthrow fsmash grab dthrow dair footstool dair. I sometimes like do to it, it's a 0-death combo and super cool[/sarcasm]
~Fino
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
At 0% or really low % as long as u don't have a purple next after the first dthrow, wouldn't dthrow, dthrow, fair be better.
I don't think they can DI out of that at like 0-5%.
I don't think they can DI out of that at like 0-5%.
Fino
Smash Master
There's no guaranteed re-grab ._.
mk isn't a space animal, lol
~Fino
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
FAIL, ive always done that against MK and it works. I guess they don't expect it.
At 0%, really no dthrow-dthrow?
At 0%, really no dthrow-dthrow?
Fino
Smash Master
Maybe the metaknights you play are bad... just DI away and then jump and they're free. lol
~Fino
professor mgw
Smash Champion
You say this as if I was trying to prove you wrong >_> I know you were talking about at 0% I just used 16% as an example because my point was that it would only work at 0% (D-throw>f-air) and that mk's % were slightly above that he would be able to evade the f-air.
BOB SAGET!
Smash Lord
****, well i learned something.
Llumys
Smash Champion
I'm pretty sure our only true chaingrab is on Fox.
Fino
Smash Master
I think I get it.... so my point is... at 140%... dthrow usmash wouldn't work, therefore you're stupid and wrong?
I think we're smart enough to understand that "around 0% dthrow fair leaves you with better options" doesn't mean "around 16% dthrow fair works". I just thought it was a really dumb point... and really didn't prove anything. Also, olimar being the power house that he is (he has very high damage output-per-attack compared to most characters)... staling usmash isn't always the best idea. I like those sexy 60-70% KO's on mk.
~Fino
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
If you whistle mk's uair while he's edge guarding you, he's able to throw out a nair and outdo Olimar's nair, sadly. This is the flaw to this. However, lots of mks like to try to shuttle loop us as an edge guard, which isn't smart. If we predict and whistle a shuttle loop it's usually a free up smash for us.
professor mgw
Smash Champion
I was simply stating the usefulness of the move..period.
***
That's defenetly true. So at what % should I get rid of white pikmin?
***
That's defenetly true. So at what % should I get rid of white pikmin?
RichBrown
Smash Master
@MGW: at KO %s. But I usually just throw them right at MK and let him kill them. Although sometimes if he's really far away and I have like 2 or 3 white pikmin I'll kill the little *******s myself.
Also I can't believe you guys didn't mention Dthrow-boost pivot grab Bthrow-purple pikmin toss-nair-footstool-jabreset-dtilt-dtilt-dtilt-dtilt-dtilt-ftilt-usmash-whistle bounce that's like ****ing uber
Also I can't believe you guys didn't mention Dthrow-boost pivot grab Bthrow-purple pikmin toss-nair-footstool-jabreset-dtilt-dtilt-dtilt-dtilt-dtilt-ftilt-usmash-whistle bounce that's like ****ing uber
Tin Man
Smash Hero
interesting combo
what have we got to say about CP stages? preferable neutrals, and bans?
what have we got to say about CP stages? preferable neutrals, and bans?
Fino
Smash Master
Yeah, in that situation... whistle + aerial dodge... it's the best solution / last resort to not getting gimped XD
it gets predictable after awhile... and even then it's hard to punish.
^richbrown combo, where you at? lol.
Note: if that usmash is SGC'd, it's a 0-death.
cause it's a ****ing metaknight counter =D
~Fino