Weekly Match-up Discussion~ #2: Wario

[Darky-Sama]

(IIRC)

This match-up pretty is close to even, but I would actually give the match in Wario's favor for the fact he has just a SMALL edge over Luigi. They both rely heavily on their air games, and even though Wario has his amazing air control and spacing, that doesn't help much considering Luigi's aerials come out so quickly hand have low cool down time. Luigi's FAIR makes approaching with Wario difficult since he can just come in and punish with ease. Unless the Wario knows how to space his aerials AMAZINGLY well, he would probably have extreme difficulty getting through Luigi's air game, even with his own.

On the ground, Luigi might have the edge; his smashes provide high kill potential, his Luigi Cyclone gets through just about everything Wario has on the ground aside from a properly ranged downtilt, ftilt or Fsmash - - and I dare to dread what he might have grab release wise on Wario.

Overall, they're both close to equally matched. He's not impossible for Wario to get around, but it's one of the more difficult match-ups. In all honesty, I would rather fight a Meta Knight than a skilled Luigi in this match-up.


I'd say 55:45, Wario.

- - - - - - - - -

Also, Peach is one of my mains if you discuss her next. I'd be glad to help with that.

 

[CR4SH]

wait wait.

What the hell do we cp this guy to?

 

[DTP]

wait wait.

What the hell do we cp this guy to?

Wow, I honestly have no clue O__o
At this point he sort of seems like Snake. No REAL good CP's and not too many bad stages for Luigi. Except maybe Brinstar......


And thanks for the input Darky-Sama

 

[Darky-Sama]

Counterpicking a stage against Wario... hmm...

Almost any stage can benefit Luigi and Wario equally since they both rely heavily on their air game. There isn't any stage that really limits one or the other in the air except Luigi's Mansion (which ironically isn't too good for either of them). Luigi has much higher kill potential than Wario does though, however. Taking him to a smaller stage would make KOing him much, much easier; but both of the reliable small stages (Battlefield and Brinstar) boost Wario's platform game drastically.

Certainly not worth it.


- - From the Wario perspective; they'll be praying dearly that you take them to a stage where they can put platforms to good use, since that's the easiest way for them to get around Luigi's air game. You'll also need to remember, Wario's up air is one of his best kill moves. Stages with a low ceiling can benefit him just as much as it can Luigi.


Stages without platforms make getting to Wario much easier. That will force Wario to have one real option, space and punish; which Luigi doesn't have much to fear when it comes to that factor. It is Wario, however, so you'll still need to play carefully. There's no stage to really shut down Wario's meta game in the slightest way, shape or form.


Final Destination would probably be your best bet:
-Luigi Cyclone covers most of the ground game.
-Wario's air game is limited to spacing and punishing.
-Wario's kill potential horizontally isn't as deadly as Luigi's.
-Lack of platforms + high ceiling decreases Wario's vertical KOs.

No need to give Wario any unnecessary edges through platformed stages.

 

[CR4SH]

I think I'll end up going with the "dont get gimped" options. Probably norfair or YI, maybe even smashville. Anything to give me an extra out on the ledge.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yoshi's Island and Smashville are okay, but Norfair might not be a good idea.
Norfair is one of the Wario Board's HIGHLY RECOMMENDED counter picks.

 

[PhantomX]

Go to battlefield or battlefield-like stages, lol.

Or do what Boss and I did and go to PS1 then have a taunt party when both are on last stock at lethal percents in the last round, b/c that's legit.

 

[hippiedude92]

Taunt party, last hit, game 3 PS1, that's pretty legit CP imo lol.

warios bite is redicuously lol

 

[CR4SH]

Yoshi's Island and Smashville are okay, but Norfair might not be a good idea.
Norfair is one of the Wario Board's HIGHLY RECOMMENDED counter picks.

But the problem with that logic is, it's one of luigi's HIGHLY RECOMMENDED stages too. And the reason for both of them is the emphasis on airgame and platform pressure. And in this matchup luigi generally does both of these things better. It's the same thing with brinstar.

But on these stages luigi gets the added benefit of the "dont get gimped" qualities of both stages. The lava saves your *** so much more than it hurts you. The multiplatforms on norfair provide extra outs, and the snot on brinstar makes it very hard for wario to bike harass. Not to mention the forced closeness on both stages, and luigi being the one character in the game you DO NOT WANT to be close to.

I keep hearing you and others say don't go to wario's best stages. Even though they're clearly luigi's best stages too, and for more reasons. I'm not saying its definetly a good idea to do it, but I'm not hearing reasons not to outside of "omg wario's good there!"

 

[chic]

Well, I'm sick of talking about stupid marth. And I'm 100% sure most of us don't know a thing about ICs. Umm, didders?

marth is one of luigis worst match ups and a very common tourny char so its good to talk a lot about him

vs ic... DONT GET GRABBED

 

[BSP]

marth is one of luigis worst match ups and a very common tourny char so its good to talk a lot about him

vs ic... DONT GET GRABBED

which is very hard to do in luigi's case...

 

[chic]

not sayin its easy, i'm just saying its what the match boils down to

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I would seriously not say FD.

Pick as small a stage as possible to prevent Wario from air camping...Just ban Brinstar, if 2 bans are allowed, ban Brinstar and FD.

Norfair is fine...but not too good, its fine for both characters for reasons listed before.
I personally like:
Haliberd: low ceiling
Battlefield and platform oriented stages: Combos on platforms, platform stages also seem to be reasonably smaller. Yoshi's is my favorite other neutral vs Wario due to the smaller size.
I also like Frigate. Frigate forces characters to apporach due to the flipping.
Finally: If these aren't banned: Green Green's and Corneria
Green Greens/Corneria have low ceilings.

*Edit*
If you know how to play on Pictochat well, this stage is fine as well, as the different modes of the stage force characters to approach.

 

[I am Seth]

Luigis moves always seem to beat mine in the air, just sayin.

 

[DTP]

Alright, I've decided to do Marth next. Followed by IC's and then Peach.

Thread for marth will be up before Monday. Keep this discussion going though :D
Wario's summary is in progress still. I work this weekend

 

[PhantomX]

Don't go to Green Greens if it's legal... just don't, lol.

 

[Yonder]

Please after ICs let's do MK. That's the only matchup that I feel is unwinnable at top levels.

Luigi's worst matchups in order:

1. MK
2. Game and Watch
3. Marth
4. Infiniting DDD

Everything else isn't that bad of a matchup for Luigi personally

 

[hippiedude92]

do ****ing diddy kong or olimar jesus ****ing christ.

 

[yoshq]

yeah i lost to another 2 olimars recently... xD sleeh and brian H

 

[DTP]

Please after ICs let's do MK. That's the only matchup that I feel is unwinnable at top levels.

Luigi's worst matchups in order:

1. MK
2. Game and Watch
3. Marth
4. Infiniting DDD

Everything else isn't that bad of a matchup for Luigi personally

Yeah I had all of those characters in mind from the start actually. They can be boring to do though, so I'm spreading them out

do ****ing diddy kong or olimar jesus ****ing christ.

Aw, having a bad day?

yeah i lost to another 2 olimars recently... xD sleeh and brian H

I hate Oli lol
I'll make sure to do him soon


Making the Marth thread now btw

 

[I am Seth]

Don't go to Green Greens if it's legal... just don't, lol.

dude i love green greens.

 

[yoshq]

we still need a vid for wario

 

[Yonder]

do ****ing diddy kong or olimar jesus ****ing christ.

Lol they feel like some of the easiest matchups in the game. Especially Olimar

 

[LuigiKing]

Please after ICs let's do MK. That's the only matchup that I feel is unwinnable at top levels.

Luigi's worst matchups in order:

1. MK
2. Game and Watch
3. Marth
4. Infiniting DDD

Everything else isn't that bad of a matchup for Luigi personally

G&W isn't that bad of a matchup. 60:40 GW favor maaaaaaaaybe. Probably 55:45

 

[CR4SH]

G&W is a pretty ****ty matchup. 70:30 GW favor maaaaaaaaybe. Probably 65:35

Fixed

10 fix.

 

[hippiedude92]

Lol they feel like some of the easiest matchups in the game. Especially Olimar

because they are the ****ing easiest matchups in the game and the reason why people like to pick up luigi, counter olimar, diddy, wario, and they're highly rising popular characters in tourney scenes.

in the last matchup threads we did hardest matchups (which is cute but) the only reason you see people picking up luigi as a secondary is the you know what popular characters.

just making a point out there.

but w/e not my matchup thread to control with

 

[LuigiKing]

Un-Fixed

10 notfixesx.

Praxis showed me the light with G&W.

because they are the ****ing easiest matchups in the game and the reason why people like to pick up luigi, counter olimar, diddy, wario, and they're highly rising popular characters in tourney scenes.

in the last matchup threads we did hardest matchups (which is cute but) the only reason you see people picking up luigi as a secondary is the you know what popular characters.

Also this is probably the best thing hippy ever said ever. We need to get our confident matchups out of the way so people know what luigi can do against the top tier. I was thinking peach next, but we should do Diddy and Olimar for sure. Diddy/Olimar/Wario are the reason people are picking up luigi, so we should do what we can to elaborate on those.

 

[TreK]

we still need a vid for wario

We have Scatt77's, which is pretty good if you ask me.

 

[yoshq]

We have Scatt77's, which is pretty good if you ask me.

there was one by biglou too but it's not in first post.

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W isn't that bad of a matchup. 60:40 GW favor maaaaaaaaybe. Probably 55:45

It's really bad if he is extremely patient and then starts being super aggressive when you're offstage. Luigi is also one of his easiest targets to juggle due to Luigi's bad range and low aerial mobility, not to mention G&W is extremely good at edgeguarding Luigi since all he needs to do to stop a missile is throw a F-air at it (or Up-B into it), and D-air ***** low recoveries.

If you're going to say something about SDIing G&W's B-air, he doesn't even need to use it that much in this matchup if all he's trying to do is get Luigi above him or offstage, where Luigi is almost guaranteed to take more hits.

 

[CR4SH]

If you're going to say something about SDIing G&W's B-air, he doesn't even need to use it that much in this matchup if all he's trying to do is get Luigi above him or offstage, where Luigi is almost guaranteed to take more hits.

Fish BOOOOOOWL!

Also, an easy way to gimp luigi. Jump off stage bacon. Jump again fair. You're pretty much dead if the bacon hits. If gw gets a lead and then continues to have a brain, there's pretty much nothing you can do to get past the fish bowl.

 

[hippiedude92]

Praxis showed me the light with G&W.



Also this is probably the best thing hippy ever said ever. We need to get our confident matchups out of the way so people know what luigi can do against the top tier. I was thinking peach next, but we should do Diddy and Olimar for sure. Diddy/Olimar/Wario are the reason people are picking up luigi, so we should do what we can to elaborate on those.

lol ever? only? :[ meanie.

you know l also forgot luigi ***** fox, zss which are like 6/4, and it feels pretty good honestly lol.

 

[Yonder]

lol ever? only? :[ meanie.

you know l also forgot luigi ***** fox, zss which are like 6/4, and it feels pretty good honestly lol.

I never understood how Luigi ***** ZSS (unless in bed) But yeah, Luigi does **** Fox. Get caught in a Luigi utilt with fox and expect 50% on ya lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Fox also has to take a risk to kill you, and he's so lightweight that saving B-throw for kills works very well against him, especially when you factor that his approach is pretty limited.

 

[DTP]

Wario section in the main match up thread is almost complete. I still have to do the stage section .__.

It'll be done later, I have to sleep D;

 

[PhantomX]

I'm gonna money match chic this weekend. We'll try to get it recorded.

 

[DTP]

Alright, the Wario section is finished.

We'll be doing two characters per week after Marth.
IC's and Diddy is the plan for next week so far.

 

[hippiedude92]

l forgot about ICs lols.

maybe if it was done, Boss can prolly **** Meep ??!?? xDDDDDDD

good ****

 

[DMG]

What was the verdict? 55:45 Wario favor? Doesn't sound gay enough.

Also for a CP, you guys should consider Yoshi's Island or Battlefield. Yoshi's Island camping Luigi there is funky for Wario (doable, but funky), and Battlefield camping Luigi is also a bit harder than normal.

I advise against large stages like FD, and I advise against Brinstar too.

 

[luke_atyeo]

and I advise against Brinstar too.

I sure learnt that lesson the hard way