Weekly Character Discussion: Yoshi

[Mmac]

When we played online, the most common times I was able to hit you with immunity was when you were recovering; with ROB I was able to get a few KOs in this manner at medium %. Yoshi's recovery is not as good as a Yoshi main would like it to be.

Yeah, you know how hard it is to get past a ROB Nair? God how I hate them >_<. I only recall that once though in that match. The first stock was from a Dsmash I think, and the third stock was from a Normal Nair on the stage

I also recall on your games where you were MetaKnight that you could barley intercept me at all. I actually can't remember any part when we were on Smashville, although you did gimp me on the ledgeless side of Frigate Orpheon. I hate that place ;_ ;

Even when you were playing as ROB, I still got past a number of your Projectile and Intercepts.

Edit: I also wasn't doing my best that night [/john].

I been actually doing pretty bad lately

Bringer's pretty ****ing insane...how do you not know of him?

Because I probably came here after he left? I dunno.

 

[Chaco]

True, that is true but i joined after you. XD

 

[Mmac]

Then I don't know. I wish someone will bring me up to date <_<

 

[KiwiBear]

I didn't get the chance to mention this earlier, since i was at the library, but I wanted to discuss about Yoshi's defensive game. Albeit, his shielding sucks (we'll get to that soon) but I want all these people that down on Yoshi so badly to start looking at the glass half-full.

Yoshi's defense as everyone knows isn't that great when it comes to shielding. His rolling dodge is slow, and doesn't really give as much as a distance between you and your opponent, as it would with other characters, his shield grabbing is an embarrassing failure, and he is the only character that cannot jump out of his shield. This is a major turn off to players that like using "tier" factor characters, or what I like to call people that are lazy *******s and like to use the characters that everyone else is using or whomever maybe getting hype, instead of trying to be original and learn how to master a particular character besides Metaknight (whom isn't even that great, get over him people *sighs*). Yoshi isn't just a character you can pick up and play. He really is for the dedicated advanced player( as he doesn't shot lasers out of his piehole, nor does he have an obviously bogus recovery), and I really don't like it when we have people that just touch the character once and assume he's bad due to his varying playing style, and the stigmatic inclination that he's the same old dinosaur from melee. Although Yoshi cannot do certain things from a shield, he does have a unique shield; his is the only shield that cannot be poked away multi-hit attacks.

Now that we are off his shielding, let me try and enlighten some heads here. Did it ever occur to anyone that Yoshi isn't about defense, but is better played as a REVERSAL type fighter? Yoshi's genius is in the abilty to NOT have to resort to shielding. Instead of trying to dodge all attacks let yourself get hit at low percentages to punish players with trading blows (Yoshi's Nair is best for this), or simply learn to side dodge attacks and counter attack. Just because you don't have the same techniques available to Yoshi that you are so used to with other characters, doesn't mean he's lame. It means you need to change your style of playing and mindset to suit Yoshi's Mid-to-close range combat prowess. if you know you are going to get hit, use Yoshi's super armor in his Double Jump to parry opponents and return attack. Yoshi doesn't have some techniques everyelse has, but he does have techniques that no other character has.

Discuss....LOL

 

[Deleted member]

One of the best melee yoshis, thats bringer. He was also a huge contributor on the melee boards.

I agree with this mostly. Also, dtilt is a good spacer(crawling backwards+dtilt is too funny), and ftilt is nice after a jab cancel to help set up combos.

 

[Kiwikomix]

@ Kiwi:
I would agree that Yoshi is a non-defensive type player. His defense is his pivot grabs (which lead to offense or camping), and as only a few characters can force him to approach, there's not much they can do about it. This does, of course, leave some gaping holes for those few characters that can (Falco, Link), and even larger holes for those that he can't approach horizontally, where his range is better (Falco, Link).

 

[Depster]

You guys are also giving Uair credit in the wrong areas. You've never tried to outprioritize it, have you?

Here is a quick explaination: Marth/Ike counter. seriously, take a character and try to down air against yoshi's Uair. yoshi flashes like marth/ike then just finishes his Uair. The best uair in the game, IMO. Though the links have pretty good ones, though they are very punishable because of how long they last.

And yes, very little attention spent on his two wavedash-like techniques, which will help a lot in the long run once WE actually figure them out better XD

 

[Scala]

Also this is noteworthy that Ankoku's summaries were based off of my game and I don't really pivot grab as much as I want to at all.

Kindof a disappointing weekly discussion IMO. I guess we'll all just go back to getting better and rehashing old info.

 

[jber4life]

Yoshi>Boshi

SRSLY

 

[Shiri]

Mmac, Bringer invented the gold standard tournament Melee Yoshi.

Unfortunately, he played PAL, which means some people tended to give him less credit than he deserved.

He was a huge contributor and an intelligent debater. I really miss him. >_<

 

[MiraiGen]

In the words of the immortal Penny Arcade, maybe Yoshi just sucks really well.

The discussion didn't have much room to wiggle - Yoshi is good for obvious reasons and bad for obvious reasons. There aren't a lot of players who like him. There's just not much to discuss.

 

[Timbers]

The best uair in the game, IMO.

Wario, GaW, Luigi, Mario.

Take your pick.

 

[Opfer]

I agree with almost everything in the summary, except for the recovery being easily gimped. If Yoshi plays it safe and mixes it up enough to not get predictable, it's very hard to gimp him.

I don't say it's impossible, Yoshi has a lot of options when recovering, but if the opponent guesses which one he will actually use and knows exactly what to do, he could gimp Yoshi. The chances are still pretty slim though.

When Yoshi doesn't play it safe, it's an entirely different story, of course.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

The synopsis is only motivation to find more techniiques and strategies to expand Yoshi's game.
BTW, Dragonic Reverse is present in and easier to do in SSB64.
Unfortunately, Yoshi's supershielding properties are non-existent in Brawl.
Yoshi doesn't run that slow. He needs to accelerate a bit. He is the 11th fastest runner in the game.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

Yoshi doesn't get the credit he deserves, not enough ppl back him up.
its easy to underrate him at first glance but he's got some game

i've stuck w/ him since the N64 and don't plan on changing

 

[kupo15]

And yes, very little attention spent on his two wavedash-like techniques, which will help a lot in the long run once WE actually figure them out better XD

Dont feel bad. They did the same to us Pits. Granted its not as good as yours but it still has uses and we still need to figure out how to use it correctly. They also discussed Pit at the superficial level, as if the game just came out instead of looking at what we did with what we got. aka ATs and such. It appear they are doing the same to you.

I dont feel that Yoshi is easily gimped. I was looking at Prides ledge game and I saw the opponents struggling to attempt to gimp him. Even when I thought he was done for, he came back.

Wish we had the DR... thats pretty neat! ^_^

Yoshi doesn't get the credit he deserves, not enough ppl back him up.
its easy to underrate him at first glance but he's got some game

i've stuck w/ him since the N64 and don't plan on changing

I know what you mean....

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

throw eggs, if they come at you, run away into pivot tongue (Grab). CG to the edge vs MK, then up smash (I heard you can also fair???). Do this a lot. Oh ya, and Bair to Nair. That's pride's whole game basically.

Someone that knows all the anti-MK stuff better than I should post it here... consolidated. It's about the only thing people turn their heads about.

Yes, Yoshi now has a Release Grab Combo to Fair Spike against many many characters, including MK and Snake. But that's probably the only thing that 'people would turn their heads about' for the Yoshi vs MK matchup, other than this combo there's just the basic things such as some of Yoshi's aerials have more range or such as examples.

Ground Movement
Yoshi runs kinda slow.

Actually, Yoshi's running movement speed is higher than average, placing the 11th fastest runner in the game.

Also, is anyone else disappointed in how his tilts are? I can't use his d-tilt or f-tilt as pokes in Brawl at all! I guess I got spoiled by ROB's f-tilt, but still.

Lol. Rob's ftilt is just too good. Yoshi's dtilt does really have quite a large range and dtilt and ftilt are quite fast, unpredictable and have decent power.

and also, lol so far most of the ppl here besides SBRers are Yoshi players or Yoshi secondaries etc.

and btw just FYI, Mk dies from Yoshi's fair spike during the CG combo at about 80%, which is pretty low. once he's 40%, yoshi can change grab him across the stage like FD thenhe'd be about 80% then he could die or get edgegaurded.

 

[Chaco]

Ragnorak17...hmm...heard that name before...OH...that's OS's AIM.

 

[Kress]

I feel like there was no real interest for yoshi's discussion. Almost nothing said on his CG strategies, his Grab spike from release, his DR or DT, and maybe they just underrated too much his recovery (it is bad, but seriously, it's far from being the worst).
There isn't as many yoshi's as metaknights or snakes, but that doesn't mean that he's not worth a decent discussion. And besides, we may be few, but we are serious.

You may say that I'm a newbie becouse I don't have as many posts as Chaco or Bigman, but I registered on this forums just to know and discuss about yoshi's SSBB gamestyle, so when the ones who are supposed to be the bests at smash don't give a good discussion about yoshi, well, you may understand how I feel , dissapointed. That's my opinion anyways, I'm not sure about what others think about the weekly discussion

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Ragnorak17...hmm...heard that name before...OH...that's OS's AIM.

really? and also you replied to a couple of my posts (Im Yoshi Kirishima)

 

[Chaco]

really? and also you replied to a couple of my posts (Im Yoshi Kirishima)

Wow, odd, and yep that's his AIM.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Ragnarok17 is the exact?! wow. are you sure may be you added me some reason instead? XD

Unfortunately, Yoshi's supershielding properties are non-existent in Brawl.

Uh... im very sure they ARE in. It's hard to imagine, but they are. It might just be that the shield takes more time to pop so its harder to imagine (or may be its just the animations that make his shield look like it starts up slower)

This is quite a boring thread, very disappointing Debaters where are you? Flamers? lol. Ok let me start something. I think that Yoshi is 5:5 against MK or may be 5.5:4.5 in yoshi's favor, and with snake prett much 5:5.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Yoshi's shield does not posses frames where he is impossible to grab like in Melee. Watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79zqXLBfRxk
None of the stuff in this video is possible in Brawl.

 

[Shiri]

Supershielding tricksies may be out, but I'm quite positive his shield is holding some secrets.

We just need to spend the time as a group to stumble across it, or to force the discovery.

Also, we have a matchup thread for the matchups. It would be nice if we could keep the discussion in there. ^__^

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Oh i thought you meant supershielding as in Power shielding XD ya, me/Yoshi Tribe have never really considered to test out his Shield. Ill tell them we should look for it.

and ok sry Shiri

 

[Chaco]

NO...wait his is Ragnarok1.

 

[mimic_king]

Yoshi is terrible. When I found out that he was update 22, I went ballistics.

What I don't get is how people won't stop playing as him until they prove to everyone that he's good. He is absolute trash. His up b gives a little boost, but it's very little. And you can't do anything else after you do it. His b move is slower, and his side b is just as useless as it was before. his down b isn't very powerful, but can be used as an edgeguard similar to Bowser's. His standard attacks can't do any damage and they are stupid. He has zero potential. That's right. Zero potential.

Yoshi was never any good in the series, and this game doesn't change that.

 

[Chaco]

Yoshi is terrible. When I found out that he was update 22, I went ballistics.

What I don't get is how people won't stop playing as him until they prove to everyone that he's good. He is absolute trash. His up b gives a little boost, but it's very little. And you can't do anything else after you do it. His b move is slower, and his side b is just as useless as it was before. his down b isn't very powerful, but can be used as an edgeguard similar to Bowser's. His standard attacks can't do any damage and they are stupid. He has zero potential. That's right. Zero potential.

Yoshi was never any good in the series, and this game doesn't change that.

Hmm...coming from a tier *****, yeah I soooooo believe you. Get'cher head out of your ***.

 

[ProBrawler]

Yoshi is terrible. When I found out that he was update 22, I went ballistics.

What I don't get is how people won't stop playing as him until they prove to everyone that he's good. He is absolute trash. His up b gives a little boost, but it's very little. And you can't do anything else after you do it. His b move is slower, and his side b is just as useless as it was before. his down b isn't very powerful, but can be used as an edgeguard similar to Bowser's. His standard attacks can't do any damage and they are stupid. He has zero potential. That's right. Zero potential.

Yoshi was never any good in the series, and this game doesn't change that.

Wow, how about you face a top Yoshi player and then say that. Believe me, people find out how to make the most of his strengths. I'm not going to lie, you sound n00bish there.

And I now definitely have more posts in the Yoshi forums than the Zelda or Sheik forums... =O

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi is terrible. When I found out that he was update 22, I went ballistics.

What I don't get is how people won't stop playing as him until they prove to everyone that he's good. He is absolute trash. His up b gives a little boost, but it's very little. And you can't do anything else after you do it. His b move is slower, and his side b is just as useless as it was before. his down b isn't very powerful, but can be used as an edgeguard similar to Bowser's. His standard attacks can't do any damage and they are stupid. He has zero potential. That's right. Zero potential.

Yoshi was never any good in the series, and this game doesn't change that.

Sounds like you played not one Yoshi player.....ever....Go get exp then come back....Better yet, don't come back.

 

[Sharky]

Yoshi is terrible. When I found out that he was update 22, I went ballistics.

What I don't get is how people won't stop playing as him until they prove to everyone that he's good. He is absolute trash. His up b gives a little boost, but it's very little. And you can't do anything else after you do it. His b move is slower, and his side b is just as useless as it was before. his down b isn't very powerful, but can be used as an edgeguard similar to Bowser's. His standard attacks can't do any damage and they are stupid. He has zero potential. That's right. Zero potential.

Yoshi was never any good in the series, and this game doesn't change that.

I lol'd.

It's ok, Big, he can come back. I want to lol some more XD

 

[mimic_king]

I hate it whenever I say something and people accuse me of trolling. Oh well. It's a forum. It's not like I see you guys. That would be a different story.

And by the way, I have played many Yoshis. I think I would know how a Yoshi works.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

The yoshis you played may not have been too good.

and plz dont flame like that other post u did. i could count at least 10 things wrong with it.

you CAN do things after his UP B. Turn tap jump off, you can do ANOTHER DJ, in addition to the DJ before the Up B.

His standard A combo has nice priority range and power and speed.

His attks definitely are not useless and dont suck.

Yoshi was mid tier in SSB 64.

Yoshi was Bot tier in SSBM was still wasn't the worst.

Well no one said that you should use Neutral and Side B in his metagame. You see many chars using all their B moves? In pro matches, do you see Falcos using their Up Bs to attack people? or MK's using their Down Bs? Remember in Melee when all the tournies' chars' metagame consisted of almost no special moves except for reflector for shining?

Yoshi's Up B gives about the same vertical height as Bowser or DK's Up Bs. It gives a little less than horizontal recovery (if you're talking about extremes), but it DOES give at least OK horizontal recovery, its just that after the first 2 you will start losing height. And like Before, your recovery routine can be like this: DJ, Up B, DJ AGAIN, Up B AGAIN.

but thx for at least commenting/arguing, as this thread is a bit boring since there's mainly just Yoshi mainers or Yoshi knowers who are posting here.

 

[Mmac]

Guys, he's just a troll. Just ignore him and he'll go away eventually.

And yes Mimic King, you are a troll. Coming in here with nothing more than negative context is trolling. Therefore, you are a troll.

 

[Kress]

Yoshi is terrible. When I found out that he was update 22, I went ballistics.

What I don't get is how people won't stop playing as him until they prove to everyone that he's good. He is absolute trash.

So, let's suppose that yoshi IS absolutely trash, so how come? his match Up against MetaKnight is even? He can chain grab him? What did you say? you can actually chaingrab to spike him?!?! AND HIS PIVOT GRABS AND HIS UPSMASH BREAKS HIS SPAMMY NEUTRAL B?!
Yeah, he's sooo trash ....

His up b gives a little boost, but it's very little. And you can't do anything else after you do it.

One solution, Tap jump Off. After that, you can DJ double jump. Easy, huh?

His b move is slower, and his side b is just as useless as it was before.

Ok. Does meta knight's dimensional cape has any use, of course leaving out the crappy and banned Infinite cape? I think it equals a free oponent smash, but it may just be me.
So, let's take another example, luigi's side B, aside from recovery, it's VERY situational.
Another exapmle? Do you even use fire fox to attack?
Wait, I have more, King DDD neutral B, Peach's SideB, yup, all of them are not as spammy as your metaknight.

his down b isn't very powerful, but can be used as an edgeguard similar to Bowser's.

And it can catch you if you try to pressure yoshi's shield, killing you or at least putting you abobe yoshi, and that means UpAir.

His standard attacks can't do any damage and they are stupid.

It has been alredy said, his jabs can block many opponent attacks and are great for getting some space if your oponent is just too clore for you to do a Bair. His Dtilt and his Ftilt comes out very quickly and they both have good range, his Uptilt is kinda crappy, though, you can follow it with an UpAir.

He has zero potential. That's right. Zero potential.

Yoshi was never any good in the series, and this game doesn't change that.

He was middle tier at SSB64. I won't say anything about melee, he was not as good as other characters, but he wasn't trash tier either.

Oh, and don't come crying if you feel like if you are being considered a troll. You just didin't give good arguments, and we are supposed to expose ours becouse it seems that you don't really understand yoshi's potential.

[Sarcasm] Thank you, come here more frequently [/Sarcasm]


EDIT: Oh, and sorry MMac, I didin't saw your post. I won't feed the troll anymore

 

[Depster]

Turn tap jump off, you can do ANOTHER DJ, in addition to the DJ before the Up B.
And like Before, your recovery routine can be like this: DJ, Up B, DJ AGAIN, Up B AGAIN.

lolwut? o.0

 

[Deleted member]

I hate it whenever I say something and people accuse me of trolling. Oh well. It's a forum. It's not like I see you guys. That would be a different story.

And by the way, I have played many Yoshis. I think I would know how a Yoshi works.

Well, you obviously arent very good at brawl, not just unknowledgable about yoshi, due to ur comments(just what you said).

Ragnarok, ur crazy man! Lots of that stuff isnt even true lolol

 

[Shiri]

It totally is, though.

You mean you guys haven't done the Shiri Yoshi Super Mega Jump yet?

Wow, guys, step it up!~

 

[kupo15]

mimic_king is a troll. He did the same thing in our Pit forums

 

[Opfer]

Yeah, seriously, you don't even have to respond to that. Most of what he said were claims with no reasoning to back them up, mixed with some stuff that is simply not true and can be proven wrong by trying it out in the game.