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Weekly Character Discussion: Link

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Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 16, 2008
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oh thanks for clearing that up, anyway

boomerang works for spacing

jabs work for spacing

bombs work(sorta)

ect

Ok ill make boomerang my example since its so easy to use. When you Zair theres always the chance they guy your facing dodges it or shields it leaving you vulnerable, though for a short amount of time, now why bother with this when its not even that strong, boomerang is around the same % level and its alot safer to use and yes you can still grab them or jab them or w/e you feel like (unless your doing it from a distance, though this still offers time to take out a bomb)
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
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Z-air is only so punishable if your spacing is terrible. Z-air is for mid-range. Boomerang is for long-range. Boomerang leaves so much more vulnerable at close or mid range, I have no idea what you're talking about. It is NOT safer unless you are at long range.
 

sasook

Smash Champion
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Location
New York
oh thanks for clearing that up, anyway

boomerang works for spacing

jabs work for spacing

bombs work(sorta)

ect

Ok ill make boomerang my example since its so easy to use. When you Zair theres always the chance they guy your facing dodges it or shields it leaving you vulnerable, though for a short amount of time, now why bother with this when its not even that strong, boomerang is around the same % level and its alot safer to use and yes you can still grab them or jab them or w/e you feel like (unless your doing it from a distance, though this still offers time to take out a bomb)
Well........I can't really critique your first 3 lines because, they are correct. The boomerang, jabs, and to an extent, bombs are good for spacing.

Let's break down that example you gave. I just wanna clear up one thing. When I say use the zair for spacing, I don't mean only use it for spacing. Mixing it up with, as you said, boomerangs, bombs, jabs and such are the basics of how to space with Link. So if you thought that I'm trying to give you the notion of using zair spacing and zair alone, it's not what I meant.

Anyways.......

When you zair, it's relatively easy to hit the guy with it since there's 2 hits that occur. If the second connects, there's like....0.01% chance the guy will be able to punish you. The zair auto-cancels. That means there's little to no landing lag. This is another plus about it, and another reason why you're less likely to get punished for using it.

Now, should they spot dodge, the spot dodge can't last long enough to avoid both hits. If they roll, your landing lag is so minimal that you can punish them if they're behind you, or if they roll away, you can (as you said) throw a boomerang.

Also, Link does not have to keep his momentum in a zair. If you use a zair with your DI towards the opponent (like an aggressive attack), and they shield, you can still "switch" directions in midair and, when you land, you'll back away (due to Link's lack of traction when he lands - i.e. the craq walk). So...you can make an aggressive zair into a defensive zair, to an extent.

Also, not all attacks are used for their strength. I know I said not to use examples that aren't Link, but the best examples I have are for Snake and Ike. Both of their fsmashes are very, VERY powerful. Yet, Snake users and Ike users don't tend to use them very much because they are so risky. Relating to Link, the zair is in fact, a rather safe move to use. It may not do much damage, but heck yes it's effective.

Also, if an opponent is within range to use a zair, sometimes it's not the best idea to pull a boomerang. Link has a slight lag (he pulls his arm back) when throwing the boomerang. You can be punished during this time (it's happened to me before, heck it's even happened to Legan before).

Now, if I was unclear about anything, lemme know. I'll do my best to explain it again.
 

Kami-V

Smash Journeyman
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To me, link is really akward to play in comparison to his Melee counterpart. While even then he wasn't an incredible character, he was still very fluid and far beyond the link in Brawl, and I think thats what is drawing people away from him.
 

NintenJoe

Smash Ace
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I didn't play Link in melee, but I don't see how he's akward. I think it's a matter of movement preferance and habit. For example, if you play melee Fox for a week, then play Link in brawl he moves like a ******. (I've tried it before) :)
 

Kami-V

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I didn't play Link in melee, but I don't see how he's akward. I think it's a matter of movement preferance and habit. For example, if you play melee Fox for a week, then play Link in brawl he moves like a ******. (I've tried it before) :)
I guess I should rephrase myself. Any player can lose an awkward feel for a character if they play them enough. But Link in brawl is just... lacking.
 

Kami-V

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he didn't have many strong attacks. his only useful attack was his long range grab.
He had plenty of strong attacks. In terms of fast damaging attacks, you have Dsmash, u-tilt, every single one of his ariels, and his dash wasn't terrible either. All of these attacks also lead into another attack, and the same goes for his up and down grab (depending on the weight of the character). Dair, Up B were great kill moves, and his Nair was also great for off stage KO's.

The thing I believe that brought his fluidity was that so many of his attacks lead into other attacks, which I really don't see being the case in this game. Sure, thats not the case with many characters in brawl, but it was one of the major things link had going for him in Melee.
 

mimic_king

Smash Lord
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in a way that's true, but Link doesn't have many strategies to keep him alive in a battle. He is good in doubles matches when paired with Marth, but he's screwed against pros.
 

sasook

Smash Champion
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but brawl link > melee link
I'm still iffy on this. Brawl Link has 238503342 AT's. Melee Link had combos (as did the entire melee cast), he could tether on any part of the stage, the spin attack semi-spiked and you could do the bomb jump for recovery. I believe his grab on the ground was longer too. But meh, to each his own.

in a way that's true, but Link doesn't have many strategies to keep him alive in a battle. He is good in doubles matches when paired with Marth, but he's screwed against pros.
I guess you missed the Deva vs. DSF matches, huh?
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 16, 2008
Messages
171
alright fair enough, although i still think you could use the jab instead of Zair considering the fact you need to jump to use it and is therfore pretty much the same speed.

In other news: The thing that sakurai did that pissed me off is this, the spin attack. Not only is it THAT much weaker than in melee but he convinced me it was stronger b4 i played it. The fact it was now chargable lead me to believe it was stronger. So when i go to the brawl midnight release tourney i of course choose Link. Now there were several things that made me lose this was one of them: everyone else got 1 round to practice except me because they were running late. Anyway my first opponet was a fox. It was at shadow moses, of course like a idiot i spam the spin attack like i used to in melee not knowing the sheer crap it turned into, i however won, yet it was this foolishness that was another reason i lost the tourney. After winning the first round you all figure i probably knew the spin attack was nerfed and had to find a new style.....WRONG! No i thought the reason i wasnt doing well was because of my abysmal preformance on the wii control they made us use (it sucks) so on the 2nd round i was facing a MK (oh dear god). So of course like the idiot i was i spammed the spin attack again, but thats not the complete reason i lost, this guy had bought the japanese version first and therfore had SO much more practice than i did. Im amazed in even got him to 60%. In conclusion my good people sakurais an *** for nerfing the spin attack and "seemingly" made it stronger, seriously you didnt have to make it LOOK stronger and try to fool us. The reason i lost the midnight release was because

I had no experiance and everyone else got 1 chance

Links style drasticly changed.

they let those cheating *******s who bought it from japan first to compete.

On a final note id like to tell you how i was disapointed from all the moves

I went to DOJO to check the whole thing out and it looked great

Links spin attack was seemingly stronger

from the picture i thought his boomerang would trap opponets and bring them to you, instead of just pushing them

I thought Link finnaly had a good recover because his tether would home onto the ledge.

NO, NO and NO. Sakurai horribly messed up the spin attack. The boomerang didnt do what the picture suggested it did, and on closer inspection the tether recovery is only as good as his spin attack one

finaly for those who were wondering which picture i was reffering to during the boomerang rant here it is

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/link/link_070820a.jpg
 

Deva

Smash Lord
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mimic king said:
no he wasn't. compared to brawl, yes. but he still wasn't fluid then
Link actually was pretty fluid in melee if you base it off his movement style and the way he could string attacks together. His movements are just too awkward in Brawl, but that's how it is for everyone.


ArkiveZero said:
but brawl link > melee link
Sorry, but for me, melee Link will always be better than brawl Link.

Darkest-Link said:
alright fair enough, although i still think you could use the jab instead of Zair considering the fact you need to jump to use it and is therfore pretty much the same speed.

after all the posts from you I've read, I'm not sure where to begin, but zair is Link's most useful technique in Brawl. It's what makes him even playable in this game. Without zair, Link would be below Falcon on the tier list >_>.

and yeah, were all disapointed with the way Link turned out in Brawl, but stop using the midnight release lol, it wasnt a real tournament.
 

Gimpyfish62

Banned (62 points)
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deva post more vids please.

if you are going to be at gameclucks 2 stock best of 5 money match sheik vs link ftsexvids?

i think this directly relates to the discussion at hand.
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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171
titled tournament, money prize. so what was it then? Turns out i wasnt looking hard enough i started asking my friends who play to look around and help me look up stuff. I now have 9 people helping and we found a list of tournaments in my town. there was the midnight release and 1 other that ended 3 months ago.

anyway about Zair, of course i tried it but something i notice, i never get 2 hits wth is with that.
 

Deva

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depends when you launch it, and how it hits the opponent. It doesnt need to hit twice though. it just needs to knock the opponent away, cuz Link get's ***** at close range combat. It has absolutely no lag, so I dont see why you wouldnt be using it more.

I'm glad you found the smash community in your area, I knew it was there somewhere lol. Let me put it like this though, that tournament was run by an organization that had no clue how to run competitive smash tournaments, it was a huge group of players at game stop with time and items for the rule set >_>. Do you honestly think that proves anything? It wasnt even best 2-3, it was 1 match lol. Doing well or horrible at a tournament like that proves nothing about how good you are.

@Gimpsorz

I dont think I can make it to GC this weekend, school just started, didnt request off work, just too much goin on. Come to EWU the week after, I got time for that one. and it's melee miright? And Link Shiek is just as gay as in melee >_>. Tilt combos to 90% > u-smash xD. Hopefully I get a footstool in there at somepoint lol.

as far as vids, nothin since the DSF thing xD.
 

Darkest-Link

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ya it was a crappy tournament and i dont think it proved anything either (not just because that cheating son of a.....well ya beat me) but its still a tourney, just a sucky one. I also now have a new hatred of the government, because of them i wont be able to drive to tournaments close by, not even in december when im 16 ='(
 

Deva

Smash Lord
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o_0 is there a new law? Even then, get some smash tournaments goin in your area, and when you get to know everyone better, see if you can carpool with someone else to a bigger tournament. Just ask around and see who can drive. Saves a lot on gas too.
 

Deva

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Pretty sure everyone's bad at melee now lol. The fact that DSF couldnt beat my melee Link basically says that xD. And EWU is Brawl, in fact were modding the Wii's so there's no tripping, and making Wario Ware have no stage changes so it's neutral o_0, it'll be epic, you should come.
 

Gimpyfish62

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i'd prefer not having hazardless stages lol i'll try to come but i'm not sure if i can get enough work off to do that - you are a ways away after all XD

i thought there was more time
 

Deva

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Yeah, it's in 2 weeks, the weekend after this one. And it's not hazardless stages, it's making stages that were banned Neutral. Warioware was banned lol. Now it's neutral random. And it's only a couple stages. The other keep their stage hazzards. And come on, I've made so many trips out to western for GC and what not. It's your turn my Bowser loving friend ^_^. If you guys plan it with Shane and what not, you can do it in one day, leave friday night, stay saturday, get back sunday morning.
 

Deva

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NO JOGBAS =P

lol, but yeah, if it doesnt work out it's cool. Even if you can't request off, can't you try switching shifts?
 

Gimpyfish62

Banned (62 points)
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i want somebody to write up something about link's edge game because i love edge games and i think link is a pretty cool cat.

tell me how to edgeguard and how to edge anything without using silly "jump-> dair and hope they run into it" nonsense - i'm talkin about precision here.

i need the house haha i suppose i could try to switch around - we'll see.

tell me about edgelink

i know he's not the greatest at recovering - but he has to have some gimping power XD
 

Deva

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Bomb drop over the edge to dair is hard to avoid, you can ledge hop nair regrab, ledge hop turn around bow shot regrab, jump off throw rang at the stage have it richochet at the recovering opponent and take them away like mario's fludd, he's got some sexy stuffs, and hope you can make it, it'll be good to see you again, it's been like. . .a year xD.
 

Darkest-Link

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would you please care to explain to me how a 15 year old is going to start a official tournament and charge people money.

Sadly the only SSBB money i make is from random noobs i look for in my town
 

Deva

Smash Lord
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Check regional zones for other tournaments in other regions and pm the tournament directors saying you're planning on running a tournament and want some pointers.
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
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pfft, age isn't much of a problem when it comes to smash <_<
my friend just turned 16 and he ran a tournament in his house and we have random smashfests all the time
 

Darkest-Link

Smash Apprentice
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well ya i know i could ask for some pointers but theres a few problems with being 15

will anyone take me seriously?

will people REALLY pay money for this?

My parents may not like it.......eh ill ask
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
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Of course people will take you seriously. You're the host. If they cause any disrespect, tell them to gtfo. lol

Are you holding a tournament or a smashfest? Smashfests happen way more frequently, and it's better if you want to get to know your community. You don't have to pay any money for smashfests, but bring some anyways for friendly money matches, or if you're going to go out and buy food or something.
Tournaments bring the best out of people's playing abilities, but things can be a lot more intense. It's still really fun though.

Are you using your own house as a venue? If you are, you shouldn't really charge anyone anything.. most people don't for smashfests. But you can charge them for pop, beverages, snacks, ect. If you honestly think you should charge them, make it $1 or $2, or something. I don't recommend you for charging them since you might get bad turnout.
If you're hosting a tournament, and renting out a place for it, there's normally a venue fee. Depending on how much you had to pay for it, you can charge them $5-$15 or whatever. Get an estimate of how many people will be attending and try to make something that works out for you.

Make sure you plenty of TVs for everyone to play, and ask people to bring set ups. with like 40 people, you may need like 10-15 TVs. With 20, you can work with 5. With 10, 3 is good.

For the actual tournament, the entrance fee can be like $15 for normal tournaments. Friendly tournaments can be free or $1-$5. Grand scale tournaments can cost over $50. The winner gets 70% or 60% of the entrance fee total. 2nd gets 20% or 30%, 3rd gets 10%. (70/20/10 or 60/40/10). Yes, people will pay money and will play to win it.

Parents have every right to be worried about letting 10 people into your house that you've met over the internet. The best solution i have for that is to go to tournaments in your area first, meet people, and then you can just tell them a few friends are coming over. It's not lying. :p
 
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