Weekly Character Discussion: Bowser

[Blistering Speed]

^^Down B

10char

 

[Hyrus]

I've had people air dodge the down b after the rising hit.

 

[Ulevo]

Holding up does NOT guarantee a jump break.

The only thing that guarantees a jump break is not breaking out during a pummel animation or being a character tall enough that your feet are touching the ground during the grab. I've done lots of testing on this; up, down, whatever, it doesn't affect whether you jump out or not.

Actually, although holding up or the jump button is a false and common misconception, this isn't exactly how it works.

What determines how a character breaks depends on two things; the button commands of the grabee if they manage to break, or the height of the character model from the ground while being grabbed if they are voluntarily released.

If a player mashes any button associated with Jump, being it Up, X, Y, or any custom control acting as jump, and they manage to break free of the grabber, they will perform a jump break. Also, if the character model has their feet suspended from the stage and the grabber voluntarily releases them without hitting them just before they're released, they will also jump break.

If a grabber hits the opponent during the moment the timer for the grab runs out, they will always release to the ground, regardless of circumstance. Also, if the character model of the grabee is touching the ground of the stage and they are voluntarily released, they will break to the ground.

This is important to keep in mind, as a player may wish to break free from a grab in a specific way to avoid a follow up. Ex. Ness/Lucas should ALWAYS mash the jump function to jump break vs a Marth, while Meta Knight should always mash buttons not associated with jump in order to break on the ground to avoid a follow up. This can also depend on placement on the stage and current circumstance.

Just some food for thought. I did a little testing myself.

 

[Nils!]

Alright, as a long time Melee-Bowser user, and now a budding Brawl Boozer, I have a couple things to say here, primarily moreso to the lower-skill-leveled and medium-skill players who use our favorite Koopa:

The first and most important thing I have to say is: It's OKAY to get the crap beat out of you in the beginning of a match. So what if you're against a faster character, and they combo you to 50+% before you can hardly move? It's okay. Bowser is a strong, but slow character. Even the best of the best Bowser users occasionally get their percentages racked up in the beginning of matches before managing to land a hit. It's okay. It is in the nature of Bowser to get hit. As long as you keep your eyes open for opportunities to make a decisive strike, you're good. Decisive strikes are Bowser's specialty.

The next thing I have to mention is actually a question for those more familiar with Brawl mechanics than myself: Does flamebreath reduce decay for other moves? (The assumption is yes, but I'm not inclined to test it myself.)


My final thing to add here is yet another question, but I think it may benefit everybody. Would it be possible for someone to make a video-guide to proper usage and aiming of the Uair? I somewhat understand the idea, but it's hard to get it through text, and a guide to it would be infinitely helpful.

Alright, that's all I've got. Go Koopa!

 

[Tenki]

I've had people air dodge the down b after the rising hit.

I've had people airdodge after first hit of Sonic's U-air.

Don't feel bad ;_;

 

[IceMg1k]

KillerFleet's Warrior Knight and DJ Nintendo's Bowsers own.

 

[rathy Aro]

How does the ISJR fit into bowser's gameplay? Does it make up for any of his flaws?

 

[Conway]

Any thoughts on Bowser's D-Tilt? I think it's one of his better moves...

 

[xXSciophobiaXx]

Any thoughts on Bowser's D-Tilt? I think it's one of his better moves...

If it hits, its really hard to land, i see people roll into it, and end up standing right infront of bowser without taking damage. D-tilt seems like a very odd and random move.

 

[Ref]

Grab>hit>ground release > D tilt. Works on quite a bit of characters.

 

[Sliq]

Grab>hit>ground release > D tilt. Works on quite a bit of characters.

Does not work on Snake though, which is ********.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

Random Fact: You can angle Bowser's ftilt up and down

 

[Sliq]

Random Fact: You can angle Bowser's ftilt up and down

You can angle A LOT of attacks up and down. This is quite common knowledge, but thanks for playing the game.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Play nice Sliq. <3

 

[crescentia]

Doubt the ISJR really adds much to Bowser's game. You can't really combo from it, and it's at an awkward height to approach an opponent on the ground. Bowser's a bit too big for it to be used to dodge attacks, too. Really it's just a feint.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

You can angle A LOT of attacks up and down. This is quite common knowledge, but thanks for playing the game.

Srry I just found it the other day and thought I should mention it and not make a thread about it.

and Your welcome!

 

[eyestrain92]

Bowser is another character limited predominantly by the skill difference between player and opponent.

The Bowser player has options among options for everything but reliably approaching. If you can find a hole in your opponent's approach or defense and counter it, he's unstoppable. This is but a fraction of what I mean to convey but it'll do for now.

Down B should be used sparingly and predominantly air to ground. SAB's work if your opponent doesn't know what to expect and rolls. Sweetspotting the edge is also very cool.

 

[-Kagato-]

I'm glad I came to this forum to see this topic. Hello everyone. I'm Kagato. I've mained as Bowser in Melee and in Brawl.

Now on the discussion of Bowser, he is highly underrated because people seem to have the idea stuck in their head that Bowser is slow and an easy target. However, people seem to forget that Bowser may be big, but he's pretty fast in the right hands. Not only that, but some of his good damage-dealing moves come out decently quickly and at a good range too.

First off, his jabs are wonderful. They are so much better than they were in melee because their range is just shy of being as long as his new f-tilt (which is also awesome). His first jab doesn't send the opponent anywhere, so the Bowser can follow up with a second jab, an f-tilt, a Flying Slam, a whirling fortress, or...if they're close enough...a Bowser Bomb. Just by landing the first jab, Bowser can chain in a very high-damaging attack that can ultimately deal around 20% or more damage and also set up the opponent for an easy kill, especially if the jab is followed up by the Bowser Bomb or flying slam.

Next is his flame breath, which is one of his better moves due to it's high damage dealing abilities. Of course, it's better used against a recovering opponent in order to lock them in a lot of fire damage, setting them up for a death caused by any fairly strong attack. Flame tickle death is still around, of course, assuming you try and go for that rather than using the fire to deal damage on a recovering opponent. The fire also works as a good approach, retreat, and attack counter. The fire stops so many approaches. The only problem is the lack of flame canceling from melee, which makes it harder to approach with it, but aiming with it helps in another way.

I also would like to bring up Bowser's grabs. While I'm not a fan of his f-throw and b-throw, his d-throw and u-throw are great. His d-throw does the most damage and can usually chain into an f-tilt or another dash grab depending on how the opponent DIs. His u-throw can also lead into an f-air like in melee, though it is considerably harder this time around.

Bowser is also very fast with some surprising mind games. Claw-hopping (or his infinite jump, as you all call it) is a good way to move around platforms without dealing with landing lag. It's also a good way to bounce around an opponent while aiming to flying slam them at the same time. Though abusing it will lead the opponent to expecting it and punishing you, bringing it out every now and then can help with your advances or retreats.

Really, I can go on and on about how great Bowser is this time (believe me, I can) but the problem with Bowser lies with his matchups. Most characters that can beat him have traits about them that are rediculos, such as Snakes combination of speed, range, and power...or Meta Knight's ability to tornado spam. Diddy's frame advantage and bananas hit Bowser before Bowser sees the attack coming and being such a big target doesn't help. There's also chain grabs that are more easilly done due to Bowser's size and weight and also his recovery that can be stopped with a well-placed spike. So Bowser is not a bad character at all. He's very good. However, it just takes one character with a rediculous move to stop a Bowser that doesn't expect it.

With that in mind, I believe Bowser is perfectly in the middle as far as character ability. He has so many pros to him, but his cons lay in character matchups. If the Bowser doesn't expect something to be abused on him, then the Bowser is going to lose. That is why many Bowser resort to playing defensively because they expect to get attacked in such a way, so Bowser players try and keep themselves from being caught in it.

I still play aggressively as a Bowser because a fast enough bowser can keep an opponent from doing much, but the problem with that is one stupid mistake can turn the whole match around.

So...how good is Bowser? He's amazing if you master him, but piss poor terrible if you expect to win with him without knowing what you're jumping into.

 

[Smashless]

i named my dog bowser. seriously. whenever i tell him to sit i think of bowser's downb in brawl.

 

[Tenki]

Oh, does Bowser's infinite grab release work on everyone, or has that been debunked? I remember there was discussion on the whole "omg bowser broke brawl!" thing but it disappeared `.`;

 

[Ref]

Bowser has a chain grab release that works on everyone, However Bowser's grab hits are too slow to force a ground break. Therefore your opponent can jump break it very often.

So basically bowser grab releases work on ground breaks. With the only exception being Meta Knight. Which can be punished for every kind of break.

It also does minimum damage so you're better off just jabbing or tilting at a ground break instead of re-grabbing and having them jump break it this time.

 

[Tenki]

Well, it sure sets up for an aerial Klaw, doesn't it? XD

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Bowser's not top tier potential to where any tom, ****, & harry can pick him up & win, but he's no where near being low tier. The skill of the player behind the Bowser is where it's at.

There's one person that I can beat when he's Bowser no matter what. Call it what you want. Say I suck, fail, whatever, whatever. He plays him like he was meant to be. A grounded tank. , Shields everything constantly, Always keeps his front toward you, Grabs, Powershields, Bowsercides every chance he can just to get the damage in when he can. Retreat SH - Fire breath, retreating Fair, Annoying Jabs, UpB out of shield, Ftilt, Koopa claw infinite just to approach my way quicker if there's distance without leaving him hemmed up with lag, I could just go on and on. He's obviously the better player out me and him. But dam I'm jealous.

Bowser's like ganondorf in sense of if you do connect with a smash. They gone. It's enjoyable landing them powerful hits. Just need to be patient, don't go in there headfirst attacking blindly, and try not to be left vulnerable.

I've got respect for anybody that plays Bowser in a serious fashion. (Everybody else is taking the easier routes character wise, perfecting them characters to the fullest instead) Keep it up if you play as him.

 

[Crow!]

I really, really wanted to play as Bowser in Brawl. For the first few months, I played him as much as I played any other character.

But unfortunately, Bowser fails. His huge size and lack of any fast and safe options (I'll get to up-B in a bit) means that every character can do whatever it is that they want to do in the ideal scenario - for example, as a Link main, Bowser = Zair >> Zair >> DAC with a very wide window of opporunity.

Melee Bowser survived because Up-B was so good. Up-B is still Bowser's crutch by necessity because it's the only thing that comes out fast enough for tough situations, but it now has a huge, easily punished ending lag. This can be partially circumvented by going off the ledge and regrabbing, but only if the ledge is close enough.. and Bowser has terrible ledge options; he's so big that if they predict (or just watch over 100%) what recovery you choose, they have a huge hurtbox in which to deal the punishment. With the now pitiful range on the now non-cancelable Fair, and the no longer awesome low% ledge attack, a Bowser off the ledge is nothing to be afraid of.

I look forward to being proven wrong, but Bowser has too little in his favor to make up for his general lack of good options to deal with ANY character's basic game plan, be it a spammy projectile game, a careful spacing game, an aggressive point blank range attack, combos, chain grabs, infinite chain grabs, or what have you. With no good approach of any sort (claw hopping isn't really that scary; almost every character has a better response to Bowser's air approach than shielding, which is what claw hopping punishes), Bowser is kept on the defensive with few options with which to do his defense.

An inexperienced player (including a generally good player unfamiliar with Bowser's hitboxes) will die to Bowser because Bowser can punish each mistake very brutally. But once most of the mistakes are gone, Bowser's got nothing.

 

[BurtonEarny]

An inexperienced player (including a generally good player unfamiliar with Bowser's hitboxes) will die to Bowser because Bowser can punish each mistake very brutally. But once most of the mistakes are gone, Bowser's got nothing.

Well, then your dealing with a near perfect player and good luck to any char who wants to play them

 

[theEffinBear]

An inexperienced player (including a generally good player unfamiliar with Bowser's hitboxes) will die to Bowser because Bowser can punish each mistake very brutally. But once most of the mistakes are gone, Bowser's got nothing.

Well, then your dealing with a near perfect player and good luck to any char who wants to play them

I think Crow! is referring to mistakes due to ignorance of Bowser's gameplay, not mistakes due to imperfect gameplay on the part of his opponent. As others have said, once you learn that you have much better options versus a Klaw-hopping Bowser than shielding, you can shut down that avenue of attack; hence shielding against a Klaw-hopping Bowser is a mistake that you can train yourself to avoid fairly easily.

/RtEB

 

[Sliq]

I really, really wanted to play as Bowser in Brawl. For the first few months, I played him as much as I played any other character.

But unfortunately, Bowser fails. His huge size and lack of any fast and safe options (I'll get to up-B in a bit) means that every character can do whatever it is that they want to do in the ideal scenario - for example, as a Link main, Bowser = Zair >> Zair >> DAC with a very wide window of opporunity.

Melee Bowser survived because Up-B was so good. Up-B is still Bowser's crutch by necessity because it's the only thing that comes out fast enough for tough situations, but it now has a huge, easily punished ending lag. This can be partially circumvented by going off the ledge and regrabbing, but only if the ledge is close enough.. and Bowser has terrible ledge options; he's so big that if they predict (or just watch over 100%) what recovery you choose, they have a huge hurtbox in which to deal the punishment. With the now pitiful range on the now non-cancelable Fair, and the no longer awesome low% ledge attack, a Bowser off the ledge is nothing to be afraid of.

I look forward to being proven wrong, but Bowser has too little in his favor to make up for his general lack of good options to deal with ANY character's basic game plan, be it a spammy projectile game, a careful spacing game, an aggressive point blank range attack, combos, chain grabs, infinite chain grabs, or what have you. With no good approach of any sort (claw hopping isn't really that scary; almost every character has a better response to Bowser's air approach than shielding, which is what claw hopping punishes), Bowser is kept on the defensive with few options with which to do his defense.

An inexperienced player (including a generally good player unfamiliar with Bowser's hitboxes) will die to Bowser because Bowser can punish each mistake very brutally. But once most of the mistakes are gone, Bowser's got nothing.

No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjsgjHHAzXE

DSF won that tournament in singles. Compare your skill to mine and then kill yourself.

 

[Flayl]

I want no part of this, but 1:28 is the best SD I've ever seen. It makes the fact that you won even better.

 

[eyestrain92]

Crow!: Blah blah blah I tried but I still lost blah blah blah it's the character's fault not my lack of skill blah blah blah.

Fix'd: I'm never going to post this ignorantly again blah blah blah I'll learn to play this character in Brawl correctly blah blah blah.

 

[TexanBull58]

bowser is the best character in the game he is powerful and his attacks are devastating the one thing you must master with bowser is the DODGE if you can master that you become a counterattacker almost countering everyones move with a powerful attack that cannont be stopped

 

[OmegaXXII]

No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjsgjHHAzXE

DSF won that tournament in singles. Compare your skill to mine and then kill yourself.

that guy just got *****, but anyway Bowser is awesome and overall a good character to play as, even if he has his disadvantages such as MK for instance.

 

[Sliq]

bowser is the best character in the game he is powerful and his attacks are devastating the one thing you must master with bowser is the DODGE if you can master that you become a counterattacker almost countering everyones move with a powerful attack that cannont be stopped

Come back when you hit puberty. Until then, lurk moar please.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol so bowser can get a grab>pummel>groundrelease>downB combo on mother kids

....except it doesnt really work because if they hold away from him the first part of his downB will hit but the second part will miss


but he can get grab>pummel>groundrelease>dtilt on a few ppl, same with ftilt on a lot of ppl, and same with jab combo on like everyone

bowser would go up like 8 or 9 tier places if he just had a SLIGHTLY faster pummel....lol

 

[0RLY]

Bowser is the new Roy. Yes. That's all I have to say.

 

[eyestrain92]

No, Bowser is not the new Roy. Roy was a clone who was vastly deficient compared to the original. Bowser is a classic character with many great improvements Melee->Brawl, who can be played well if practiced. Roy was just terrible.

 

[Nils!]

Just to throw things out to keep this forum alive with non-repeats, Bowser seems to prefer his left hand in combat. Fair, Ftilt, utilt, and slight animation movement with uair are all with his left hand. He still holds items with his right, but he melees with his left on all one-handed attacks. Conclusion: Bowser is ambidextrous!

 

[mimic_king]

bowser isn't necessarily good. he can hardly land any attacks on fast characters. a fast character can land multiple combos on him before he will be able to recover. slow characters are never good, except d3.

however, bowser can possibly beat other slow characters such as ike, d3, and ganondorf. he can beat mid-speed characters if you have excellent timing.

his problem is that his moves are to predictable. anyone would stop trying to attack if they see bowser about to attack. however, noobs wouldn't see that.

to top it off, bowser is a good choice against noobs. but when facing a pro, keep this in mind.

bowser and facing a pro go together like sodium and water. not a happy ending.

and you're hearing this from a 14 year-old smash child.

 

[Sliq]

bowser isn't necessarily good. he can hardly land any attacks on fast characters. a fast character can land multiple combos on him before he will be able to recover. slow characters are never good, except d3.

however, bowser can possibly beat other slow characters such as ike, d3, and ganondorf. he can beat mid-speed characters if you have excellent timing.

his problem is that his moves are to predictable. anyone would stop trying to attack if they see bowser about to attack. however, noobs wouldn't see that.

to top it off, bowser is a good choice against noobs. but when facing a pro, keep this in mind.

bowser and facing a pro go together like sodium and water. not a happy ending.

and you're hearing this from a 14 year-old smash child.

No.

(10 no's)

 

[darkspatan117]

bowser ***** stop saying he suck

 

[mimic_king]

he doesn't suck. but at the same time he does. he doesn't ****. but he isn't feed either. you just have to know how to use him and he'll be decent.

just never use him against pros.