WaveDashing In SSBB

[The_Wii]

They should defenitly keep wavedashing. It has been stated by Nintendo that the pace of the game will be changed. It is likley that it will be slower. If wavedashing is kept it will speed up the game for more serious players.

 

[the problem]

they might take it out but id oubt cause in official tournaments they see how well the people play and how much better and faster the game is

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

It seems to me that the "developers' intentions" can be interpreted in more than one way: the programming, or the method of use.

The physics system in SSBM is not at fault when wavedashing is concerned. This appears to be the general consensus, even among anti-wavedashers.

Wavedashing is used far, FAR more than the developers intended. This appears to be the general consensus, even among pro-wavedashers.

Let's say a guy named Bill was solely responsible for designing and implementing the physics system in SSBM. When the game ships out, he sat in his office and admired his handiwork. "This was exactly my intention" he says with satisfaction.

Then he happens upon some videos of pro players some years later. He is shocked and angered. "What the heck is all that sliding??!?" he asks no one in particular. "This was not my intention!!"

I'm not sure what point I was going for, just trying to show both sides of the "developers' intentions" coin, I guess.

Personally, I'm not worried about wavedashing in SSBB. Consider the transition from Z-cancelling in SSB to L-cancelling in SSBM. Toned down though it may be, it's still one of THE techniques to master. I'm sure wavedashing will find its place in SSBB.

 

[vZakat]

As long as traction and airdodging are both in the game wavedashing will be possible. If a character blocks a strong attack they will slide back. A character with little traction (like luigi) will slide farther than one with alot of tractoin (like peach). unless you want airdodging remove or traction eliminated you'll just have to get used to WDing. They could alter traction a bit to have it more 'balanced'.

 

[allboutpeach]

wave dashing can't be replaced, its what people do and what people have been doing nearly since the game was released. Anyone who really plays at tourneys all wave dash, and it would be hectic to take it out. Its what seperates just average players from the pros. All pros wave dash, its just what needs to be done. They can't make the game equal for everyone, that would just be gay. All the things should stay the same. The game is practically a perfect game, or people still wouldn't be paying today. They shouldn't make that many changes cause that would change its perfectness, and i don't think nintendo would want to jepordize that

 

[outrunrazgriz]

What you saying about me then? lol.

I can't find a good enough reason to WD in the first place and the only places that i can find it useful to do takes a turbo controller to do it.

 

[Brightside6382]

wave dashing can't be replaced, its what people do and what people have been doing nearly since the game was released. Anyone who really plays at tourneys all wave dash, and it would be hectic to take it out. Its what seperates just average players from the pros. All pros wave dash, its just what needs to be done. They can't make the game equal for everyone, that would just be gay. All the things should stay the same. The game is practically a perfect game, or people still wouldn't be paying today. They shouldn't make that many changes cause that would change its perfectness, and i don't think nintendo would want to jepordize that

Comments like these are the kind of comments I hate the most. You are putting WAY to much importance into WD'ing. Yea everyone WD's but if they did take it out everyone isn't gonna start going crazy and commiting mass suicides. Get real for one second please, WD'ing is a simple abusable technique we use and if it was taken out we would just find another new advance technique to start abusing. SSBM is nowhere near a perfect game, if it was perfect every character would be completely balanced but since thats not the case your point there is not valid. A game doesn't have to be perfect for people to like it, look at MvC2 thats arguably one of the most broken fighting games and it still has one of the largest communities out of all the capcom fighters after almost 6 years. Is it perfect? God no, there are around 50'ish payable characters but only about 20 of them are usable at tournament level. Why do we still play it? Cause it fun simple as that and same with SSBM. Yeah lets not change the game but keep it exactly the same but add prettier graphics and a handful of new characters yeah that will greatly improve the next SSB game. If Nintendo doesn't want to jepordize changing SSBM "perfectness" they wouldn't make a new game at all. Stop being so afraid of change and accept the fact that some of the advance techniques are going to be taken out and some are going to stay.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Just because everyone at tourneys does something doesn't mean it has to saty, i mean the fact that lots of peoploe use shiek at tourneys cos she's high tier doesn't mean she's in for certain, it's a different game where you'll have to adapt your style of play sheesh you act like WD is the be all end all of smash bros.

 

[Glide]

To be perfectly honest, I'd really like to see something similar to wavedashing, but made easier to implement. Especially out of shield. My only real suggest would be C-stick with shield = wavedash.

 

[Skylink]

What you saying about me then? lol.

I can't find a good enough reason to WD in the first place and the only places that i can find it useful to do takes a turbo controller to do it.

Watch the how to play video in melee discussion. Wavedashing takes 20 minutes to learn to do, and several days of practice to implement into your instinct (depending on how much you roll)

Comments like these are the kind of comments I hate the most. You are putting WAY to much importance into WD'ing. Yea everyone WD's but if they did take it out everyone isn't gonna start going crazy and committing mass suicides. Get real for one second please, WD'ing is a simple abusable technique we use and if it was taken out we would just find another new advance technique to start abusing. SSBM is nowhere near a perfect game, if it was perfect every character would be completely balanced but since that's not the case your point there is not valid. A game doesn't have to be perfect for people to like it, look at MvC2 that's arguably one of the most broken fighting games and it still has one of the largest communities out of all the capcom fighters after almost 6 years. Is it perfect? God no, there are around 50'ish payable characters but only about 20 of them are usable at tournament level. Why do we still play it? Cause it fun simple as that and same with SSBM. Yeah lets not change the game but keep it exactly the same but add prettier graphics and a handful of new characters yeah that will greatly improve the next SSB game. If Nintendo doesn't want to jeapordize changing SSBM "perfectness" they wouldn't make a new game at all. Stop being so afraid of change and accept the fact that some of the advance techniques are going to be taken out and some are going to stay.

We aren't saying that we are going to mass suicide if wavedashing goes, all that will happen is we will be playing Halo 2 instead. (Those of us that are old enough) The only reason that SSBM is still being played yrs after it's release is because there is WITH WAVEDASHING, infinite room for skill and improvement, all because the game is fast paced. If the game was slow, then it would not be a matter of skill, it would be a matter of choosing the broken character and repeating a technique repeatedly, and that would be all there would be to it. No way to beat this technique, and no way to improve in your game. Melee is different. Because there is unlimited possibilities and simplicity, the game is still being played after all this time. Like allaboutpeach said, i don't think Nintendo would want to jeapordize that.

 

[fugito348]

i doubt theyll take it out. some people buy ssbm after seein a fox waveshine and want to do it themselves. a couple of my friends hear and watch me play and buy a cube and smash so they can play competively too. which in conclusion gives nintendo more money

 

[dizzy]

The only reason that SSBM is still being played yrs after it's release is because there is WITH WAVEDASHING, infinite room for skill and improvement, all because the game is fast paced.

The reason SSBM is still played is because it has depth, not because it has wavedashing. Wavedashing contributes to SSBM's depth, but it's definitely not the only thing that makes the game deep. Even if wavedashing is taken out in SSBB, the game could still have depth in other forms.

 

[Brightside6382]

We aren't saying that we are going to mass suicide if wavedashing goes, all that will happen is we will be playing Halo 2 instead. (Those of us that are old enough) The only reason that SSBM is still being played yrs after it's release is because there is WITH WAVEDASHING, infinite room for skill and improvement, all because the game is fast paced. If the game was slow, then it would not be a matter of skill, it would be a matter of choosing the broken character and repeating a technique repeatedly, and that would be all there would be to it. No way to beat this technique, and no way to improve in your game. Melee is different. Because there is unlimited possibilities and simplicity, the game is still being played after all this time. Like allaboutpeach said, i don't think Nintendo would want to jeapordize that.

You obviously didn't catch my sarcasm but I was trying to point out how it wasn't going to be a big deal if they did take it out. You also know nothing about fighting games in general so all your arguments are missing any kind of reason or just plain common sense. Its obvious that the game is still being played today because it is fun and has depth. No one is arguing against that so I don't understand what you were trying to get at. I was trying get at how SSBB can still have just as much depth or more then SSBM even if they take out WD'ing. WD'ing is simply one of the factors that add's to the games depth and SSBB can add even more factors that we don't know about yet. IN NO WAY DOES THE SPEED OF THE FIGHTING GAME ADD MORE DEPTH OR LESS. Look at slower fighting games like CvS2 and 3S, are you trying to say they have no depth because the are slower then SSBM? So by your logic I guess in those two games all I gotta do is find the broken character and spam his unbeatable technique till I win huh? Try to do some research on the subject before you post a ridiculous argument that has no backing to it what-so-ever.

 

[lordsturm473]

^ I agree totally. Brightside, keep rocking. : D

Anyways, if WDing is removed, the pro gaming community will move on. Halo players moved on after the pistol was nerfed in between Halo and Halo 2, they could easily move on from WDing (I play a lot of Halo, if you didn't insinuate that already).

Also, we don't exactly know how much the game is going to change just yet. For all we know, the game could have an all new physics system going for it (not likely, but whatever). New characters could completely reinvent the tier system, and some characters could get nerfed or upgraded. Not to forget that WiiConnect24 could allow a patch system for the new SSBB, allowing constant change to the gaming environment. Once all of these changes accrue, WDing might not be as advantageous as it once was.

-Lord Sturm

 

[RaRaRachael]

yeah, i def think wavedashing will remain and i will miss it if its gone; however, i will not go completely crazy without it.

 

[outrunrazgriz]

Wave dashing is second nature to some people and I like it as my cousin is trying it and failing miserably!!! I can always get in a few free hits.

Was WD in the first SSB?

 

[RaRaRachael]

i honestly dont think it was for some reason because dont remember ever using it and i know i would have

 

[MewMewKachooTwo]

It wasn't, as there was no air dodge. It's still just as fun and competitive.

 

[RaRaRachael]

indeed it is but i think it make it more challenging for there are more dodge moves which means an extra attack or two for that character

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Watch the how to play video in melee discussion. Wavedashing takes 20 minutes to learn to do, and several days of practice to implement into your instinct (depending on how much you roll)We aren't saying that we are going to mass suicide if wavedashing goes, all that will happen is we will be playing Halo 2 instead. (Those of us that are old enough) The only reason that SSBM is still being played yrs after it's release is because there is WITH WAVEDASHING, infinite room for skill and improvement, all because the game is fast paced. If the game was slow, then it would not be a matter of skill, it would be a matter of choosing the broken character and repeating a technique repeatedly, and that would be all there would be to it. No way to beat this technique, and no way to improve in your game. Melee is different. Because there is unlimited possibilities and simplicity, the game is still being played after all this time. Like allaboutpeach said, i don't think Nintendo would want to jeapordize that.

HAHAHA, oh man, I'm still laughing at that (sorry). That's a horrendous arguement, so what you think that, if they remove WD all of smash bros' "pro" players are going to go off and play a game that's A: on a different console, B: not nearly as competitive as other games I know and C: a completely different genre? Yeah that makes A LOT of sense. I have been playing smash bros with my friends since it was released as my main multiplayer game and I didn't even KNOW about wavedashing till this year, it's in NO WAY the reason people are still playing it, that's because it's a brilliant game. Smash bros fans aren't just going to walk off because one thing was removed.

About the speed editing. So what? any fighting game that's slower AUTOMATICALLY has a broken character? Yeah that makes sense, I can really see that happening. There AREN'T (not "isn't" like you put "is" because it isn't singular learn your grammer please [ sorry if you aren't english]) unlimited possibilities in melee, in fact your countered that point by calling the game simple, despite the fact that you consider WD to add more depth making it more complex, makes sense, no?

Please think before posting a reply, and rock on Brightside!

 

[RaRaRachael]

ieh ieh ieh ... seriously guys, its just wavedashing... no ones gonna die if it gets removed which i highly doubt it will

 

[Skylink]

[/QUOTE]

You obviously didn't catch my sarcasm but I was trying to point out how it wasn't going to be a big deal if they did take it out. You also know nothing about fighting games in general so all your arguments are missing any kind of reason or just plain common sense. Its obvious that the game is still being played today because it is fun and has depth. No one is arguing against that so I don't understand what you were trying to get at. I was trying get at how SSBB can still have just as much depth or more then SSBM even if they take out WD'ing. WD'ing is simply one of the factors that add's to the games depth and SSBB can add even more factors that we don't know about yet. IN NO WAY DOES THE SPEED OF THE FIGHTING GAME ADD MORE DEPTH OR LESS.

The game is not JUST being played today because of how fun it is, and it's depth is very largely based on speed, and now 2/3 of the charachters are tourtoment playable because of the wavedash. You can't say that the game is the same with or without it, because it is what makes it possible to play old favorites like mario or Link at MLG events.

Look at slower fighting games like CvS2 and 3S, are you trying to say they have no depth because the are slower then SSBM? So by your logic I guess in those two games all I gotta do is find the broken character and spam his unbeatable technique till I win huh? Try to do some research on the subject before you post a ridiculous argument that has no backing to it what-so-ever.

I don't need to do any research to say something out of common sense. When the game moves faster, the capticity of skill increases. When the game moves slower, the full potential of a character is reached easier, so it is just a matter of picking the best and using the best tactic. Slower fighting games can be deep, but it is much harder to make a game that can be both slow and deep.

HAHAHA, oh man, I'm still laughing at that (sorry). That's a horrendous arguement, so what you think that, if they remove WD all of smash bros' "pro" players are going to go off and play a game that's A: on a different console, B: not nearly as competitive as other games I know and C: a completely different genre? Yeah that makes A LOT of sense. I have been playing smash bros with my friends since it was released as my main multiplayer game and I didn't even KNOW about wavedashing till this year, it's in NO WAY the reason people are still playing it, that's because it's a brilliant game. Smash bros fans aren't just going to walk off because one thing was removed.

About the speed editing. So what? any fighting game that's slower AUTOMATICALLY has a broken character? Yeah that makes sense, I can really see that happening. There AREN'T (not "isn't" like you put "is" because it isn't singular learn your grammer please [ sorry if you aren't english]) unlimited possibilities in melee, in fact your countered that point by calling the game simple, despite the fact that you consider WD to add more depth making it more complex, makes sense, no?

Wavedashing is second nature to quite a lot of people, and that does incluse me. Like I said, the game still wouldn't be played competitively (or as competitivly) without wavedashing, wich as I said, speeds up the game, increases the diffuculty level for the potential of charachters to be reached, and allows for the game to be played at a higher level. All you guys are saying is how I should reasearch other fighting games, and how my English is bad (I am American) and how horrendous my argument is. Never do you mention how wavedashing actually HURTS the game, just how we should all just get over it just because you don't see it as anything more than a stupid glitch.

 

[PaperBoyDave]

i agree with skylink but i also agree with inferno and brightside.

wding brings out the full potential of a character like......fox. with wding, fox can cancel his shine, infinite drill combo, and other crap i can't think of right now.

on the other hand, the game is still very fun without wd (i use it all the time btw, it is second nature to me.) i didn't know about wding until a year ago. I play ffa with 2 mins with my brothers all the time. It was really fun and i still do play that with them.

 

[Brightside6382]

The game is not JUST being played today because of how fun it is, and it's depth is very largely based on speed, and now 2/3 of the charachters are tourtoment playable because of the wavedash. You can't say that the game is the same with or without it, because it is what makes it possible to play old favorites like mario or Link at MLG events.I don't need to do any research to say something out of common sense. When the game moves faster, the capticity of skill increases. When the game moves slower, the full potential of a character is reached easier, so it is just a matter of picking the best and using the best tactic. Slower fighting games can be deep, but it is much harder to make a game that can be both slow and deep.Wavedashing is second nature to quite a lot of people, and that does incluse me. Like I said, the game still wouldn't be played competitively (or as competitivly) without wavedashing, wich as I said, speeds up the game, increases the diffuculty level for the potential of charachters to be reached, and allows for the game to be played at a higher level. All you guys are saying is how I should reasearch other fighting games, and how my English is bad (I am American) and how horrendous my argument is. Never do you mention how wavedashing actually HURTS the game, just how we should all just get over it just because you don't see it as anything more than a stupid glitch.

Learn how to read please before you start trying to counter my arguments because you obviously didn't catch ANYTHING I WAS TRYING TO SAY. Here's an idea, read over my messages atleast 3 times, dont just read it once and think you got the gist of it all because if you did you wouldn't of said 1/2 the things you said. I already stated the game is still being played because it is fun and it has depth so stop trying to say im arguing against that. Was I trying to say that SSBM would be the same without WD? No I wasn't so try and read and understand my posts before you start putting words in my mouth and arguing about things I never said in the first place. Why are you trying to argue about something you know nothing about? Get off your high horse, if you wanna argue about the depth of slower fighting games actually get off your computer and go to an arcade and play them. Im not gonna argue to a brickwall of ignorance because you don't understand any other fighting games besides SSBM. I am saying your argument is bad because it is bad. You are trying to prove your point by using biased opinions that have no backing and by arguing against idea's that I never said in the first place. Also to clear everything up I do like WD in the original SSBM so don't try to put words in my mouth and say I'm against it and call it a "stupid glitch". Read some of my other posts because I never ONCE did say WD'ing is gonna hurt the game in anyway. What Im trying to argue against is how so many of you think that WD'ing is the greatest thing of all time and if they take it out SSBB won't be as competative. This doesn't make sense because your trying to measure a games depth without ever playing it but just seeing a few short gameplay clips. Now before you start trying to argue against me READ OVER MY POST ATLEAST 2 TIMES. This way you won't start raising a fuss over things I never said or mentioned.

 

[Samuman]

In my opinion, Wave Dashing is an essential part of any Advanced player's routine. It has become a great asset to Smash, and it opens up a whole new array of moves and techniques to Smashers.

I'm hoping 1 of two things happen:

1: The coders will allow Wave Dashing to be implemented in the game, the same way it was in SSBM.

2: The glitch is somehow unnavoidable with SSBB's new coding.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

The game is not JUST being played today because of how fun it is, and it's depth is very largely based on speed, and now 2/3 of the charachters are tourtoment playable because of the wavedash. You can't say that the game is the same with or without it, because it is what makes it possible to play old favorites like mario or Link at MLG events.I don't need to do any research to say something out of common sense. When the game moves faster, the capticity of skill increases. When the game moves slower, the full potential of a character is reached easier, so it is just a matter of picking the best and using the best tactic. Slower fighting games can be deep, but it is much harder to make a game that can be both slow and deep.Wavedashing is second nature to quite a lot of people, and that does incluse me. Like I said, the game still wouldn't be played competitively (or as competitivly) without wavedashing, wich as I said, speeds up the game, increases the diffuculty level for the potential of charachters to be reached, and allows for the game to be played at a higher level. All you guys are saying is how I should reasearch other fighting games, and how my English is bad (I am American) and how horrendous my argument is. Never do you mention how wavedashing actually HURTS the game, just how we should all just get over it just because you don't see it as anything more than a stupid glitch.

Just as a note, I haven't said how it hurts the game. That would be because (as I have already stated) I'm not against WD, I just don't see why it won't be competitive if it goes or that the game will die like many seem to think, you argued against brightside saying the game wasn't just played because it was fun just after I had said I've been playing it since release with my friends and didn't even know about WD till today. The game would still be played competitively due to the fact that it is so **** popular (which isn't due to WD). If you want a way in which it hurts the game then fine, whilst you said it makes some chars tourney level chars, i talso makes it even more difficult for most of the others, anyone with enough skill can play as a char and beat someone who's just playing as someone on a "higher tier" (for the most part I don't agree with tiers) oh sure you say it means some chars like luigi rise a few tiers, but it helps a lot of the higher tiers become even better basically just screwing over the lower tiers. Now I'd be perfectly fine if WD was in Brawl, just so long as they balance it to be fair for all characters

 

[outrunrazgriz]

Why do people WD anyway? A roll is a little obvious but it still works! Inferno does have a point i guess. Let's say everyone could WD. Fox, Sheik and Marth are overpowered compared to a lower tier char who is trying to be equal to them by WD. Higher tier chars should have less WD capability. Or just make it an option! WD is removed but people can download the WD 'code' from the online server. (Like Halo 2 maps) So then you can actually choose whether it is in or out of the game.

The only problem now is the tourneys and the online mode. I think it should be left out as it was obviously unintended and for people that either don't know it or for people that can't do it. I have had SSBM for about 4 years and only learned L-canceling and WDing 5 days ago! I never even knew it existed! WD should NOT be allowed online and optional Offline. Who agrees with me?

 

[Inferno_blaze]

unless they balance it and make it into a game then I'd agree with you, don't know about the "option" thing, that would just cause arguements and confusion at tourneys.

 

[Glide]

Who agrees with me?

Not many people.
The thing is, that ignorance isn't an excuse. Especially in competitive play where winning is everything. Yes, the game isn't meant for only competitive players, but at the same time it's not only for the people who aren't competitive either. Wavedashing, to be honest, I do believe is an unintended feature. However, it's also my belief that wavedashing has made the game better as a whole. The concept of L-cancelling is a good example of this. In the original smash brothers, a player could "Z-Cancel" his aerial attacks. It's believed that this feature was included in the game so that people could shield quickly after attacking. However, people began to use it to create combos, tapping Z just fast enough to cancel the lag but not release a shield. Using it, they were able to create combos of ridiculous proportions and made certain characters very powerful. Z-cancelling however, did manage to return in SSBM in the form of L-cancelling.

Wavedashing is very similar in its evolution. It gave certain characters new ideas. It created combos, and gave some characters new ways to move or dodge. Some characters it really didn't help at all. However, in the end everyone was able to use it, and some people just didn't have a very good use for it at all. Much like the roll, and how Mr. Game and Watch has a very bad one. Part of your fallacy is that you assume that higher tier characters are high tier simply because of wavedashing. This is completely and utterly wrong. Captain Falcon gains very little from wavedashing; same with Peach. They are however a very strong presence in the tourney world. Sheik gains very little from a wavedash, and is considered by many to be the best character in the game. On the other hand, Marth and Fox use their wavedashing quite a bit. However, even they don't necessarily have to rely on it -- it simply makes their games that much better.

In the end, a wavedash isn't going to destroy the game. It gives people new options, and creates opportunity to do more with each and every character. It's not just a ridiculously broken tactic; far from it. It's a tool that is used to strengthen what's already existent in a character. So Zelda has a terrible d-air? Well, wavedashing isn't gonna help that. It's not gonna help the terrible range on Pikachu's n-air either. I can understand simply not liking that everyone else has an advantage because they can wavedash. That's not a hard thing to understand. But there's absolutely nothing stopping your from LEARNING. If you simply don't want to learn, then it's not that wavedashing is bad. It's just you that's a bad player. There are people who are going to be better than you are, and many of them will use wavedashing. Wavedashing isn't going to be what beat you either; it's very rare that someone wins simply because they know how to wavedash. It takes a lot of practice and skill to use it correctly, and if someone wins because they put a lot of practice into the game, and are very skilled with a certain aspect of their character, then shouldn't they deserve to win?

In conclusion,
I disagree with you.

 

[outrunrazgriz]

1. There might not be touneys any more as online and voice messaging is an option
2. My plan disables WDing online.
3. If there are still Tournaments then that is the flaw in my plan.

 

[Myztek]

1. There might not be touneys any more as online and voice messaging is an option
2. My plan disables WDing online.
3. If there are still Tournaments then that is the flaw in my plan.

The thought of no real tournaments saddens me.

Also, if they disable WDing only online, that'd suck. You wouldn't be able to practice it online.

Why must everyone bash on WDing? *head implodes*

I want you to go, go right now! And learn to waveshine with Fox/Falco. You can't tell me it doesn't feel good to waveshine Link across FD or waveshine a shield to the point of almost breaking with Falco!

 

[Black Luigi]

1. There might not be touneys any more as online and voice messaging is an option
2. My plan disables WDing online.
3. If there are still Tournaments then that is the flaw in my plan.

This completely NOT true. What about MLG and Halo 2?? MLG's halo events are bigger than smash. Not to mention there are still tons of Halo 2 tournaments and Xbox Live is the biggest online gaming service in the world, WITH voice messaging.

Why would your plan disable a move online that would be essential to the game? WDing offline, but not on? That would be like saying you can pass offline in Madden, but can't do it online. This is nuts.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

biggest online service, pah, what's this thing we have on computers that lets us play online then? Just because it doesn't count as a service. I don't think WD would destroy the game, but I hardly see how it adds to it, very little depth is added.

Just for note Z-cancel was a glitch in the first smash bros, it wasn't in there on purpose, they just remade it into what we now know as l-canceling in melee. WD isn't like this in it's "evolution" due to the fact that it is still in the level that z-canceling was on 64, it's still unintended and hasn't been edited to make it fair.

Not sure about the other person but I never said WD made higher tier chars higher tier, I just said that it's stupid because it helped higher tier characters more then most of the mid-lower ones, causing further unbalance.

I just don't understand why people seem to think that because people use it at pro level it automatically HAS to stay in, it's like people want the same game. Just because it's used in tourneys now doesn't mean it has to stay, people only use it now at tourneys because it's more difficult to win without using it, if it was removed then this problem wouldn't exist. People would still play on a pro level but you wouldn't all be whining going but it's pro so has to stay.

I'm not saying pro techniques and moves should go, I'm just saying that you seem to think that because people have to use it to compete at a tourney level then without it tourney level would collapse or the game would lose half it's skill. please just never think of things like this as a tool, it's like using a glitch or bug that let's you go outside an area and shoot peopel within and just saying well it strengthens my game or using a hack, a bit of an extreme example I know.

Another point, almost no one is bashind WD most people on this forum consider themselves "pro" level and therefore like it.

 

[Rash]

I'm not a pro, at all. I consider myself a pretty good player who can hold my own, however.

The thing is, I don't use the wavedash. This is mostly because I haven't devoted myself to learning the technique. It's a tough skill to learn, and those who dedicate themselves to mastering it are the ones who enter tournaments and put up a good fight.

I just don't feel the necessity to practice the WD constantly. I like focusing on more conventional strategies, like timing offensive/defensive moves, using L-canceling, and dodging. If anything, I'd rather just work an occasional WD into my strategy, but as a very minor part. Putting more emphasis on basic strategy is just overall more appealing to me.

Would I want it in SSBB? Sure. It's presence will keep the "pros" happy. That's all that really matters. Give them what they want. The rest of us will be happy either way.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

It's not that hard to master, practice for a few days, I've found that with certaint characters (marth, doc mario) I can work it well into my strategies unless I'm playing a fast character like fox.

1 more post for the big 300!

 

[kaito]

i say keep wavedash i love it! using combos and learning new moves with it is awsome. everyone can do even my 10 your old cousin when i teach him it last week lol he learn after i few try =) now he trying to learn combos on his own. why i teach him because i want him as his best when facing me.

 

[Myztek]

Wavedashing, in my opinion, is one of the least important of the "advanced" techniques anyway. Compared to the others, that is. Although, it does add quite a few options. Especially for the space animals.

 

[Doctor X]

Not sure about the other person but I never said WD made higher tier chars higher tier, I just said that it's stupid because it helped higher tier characters more then most of the mid-lower ones, causing further unbalance.

That's also untrue, really. It helped Luigi, Samus, and the Ice Climbers far more than anybody in the top tier. They would all be lower or bottom without it.

please just never think of things like this as a tool, it's like using a glitch or bug that let's you go outside an area and shoot peopel within and just saying well it strengthens my game or using a hack, a bit of an extreme example I know.

This should have needed to be said more than once, let alone as many times as it already has been in this thread: The wavedash is nothing more than inducing a slide for a short distance in a manner completely within the bounds of the physics engine as intended. The programmers made it so that a sufficient amount of momentum causes you to slide while standing. They also made it so that you could airdodge in any direction, including diagonally down and forward. Finally, they prohibited this airdodge from moving through solid objects. All we're doing is making use of a combination of these three aspects of the game. When we airdodge into the floor, we land instead of going through it. The momentum from the airdodge causes you to slide a short distance.

There are no glitches, bugs, or hacks of any kind here. It's no different from chainthrows, ledge techs, upsmashes from shields, boost grabs, or SHFFLs. None of these techniques break the rules. They're combinations of basic abilities the game grants you applied in a useful manner. Your analogy is not only extreme, it's entirely flawed. Calling it a glitch is an excuse created by underachievers.

This thread has gone on long enough for us to understand exactly where most anti-WDers are coming from. It's a combination of three things:
1. They don't like to lose (after all, who does?)
2. They don't want to learn the wavedash (for whatever reason, I'm guessing they just give up too easily)
3. Because they don't understand the wavedash due to their lack of experience with it's application, they think it will be impossible to win without it (very untrue).

Of course, they think that this game should cater to their every whim without consideration of others, so they'll naturally want it taken out-- a conclusion based on misinformation and bad sportsmanship, as noted above.

Is it necessary that the wavedash be in Brawl? Of course not. At the same time, though, it's far from necessary that it be removed.

 

[Skylink]

Learn how to read please before you start trying to counter my arguments because you obviously didn't catch ANYTHING I WAS TRYING TO SAY. Here's an idea, read over my messages atleast 3 times, dont just read it once and think you got the gist of it all because if you did you wouldn't of said 1/2 the things you said. I already stated the game is still being played because it is fun and it has depth so stop trying to say im arguing against that. Was I trying to say that SSBM would be the same without WD? No I wasn't so try and read and understand my posts before you start putting words in my mouth and arguing about things I never said in the first place. Why are you trying to argue about something you know nothing about? Get off your high horse, if you wanna argue about the depth of slower fighting games actually get off your computer and go to an arcade and play them. Im not gonna argue to a brickwall of ignorance because you don't understand any other fighting games besides SSBM. I am saying your argument is bad because it is bad. You are trying to prove your point by using biased opinions that have no backing and by arguing against idea's that I never said in the first place. Also to clear everything up I do like WD in the original SSBM so don't try to put words in my mouth and say I'm against it and call it a "stupid glitch". Read some of my other posts because I never ONCE did say WD'ing is gonna hurt the game in anyway. What Im trying to argue against is how so many of you think that WD'ing is the greatest thing of all time and if they take it out SSBB won't be as competative. This doesn't make sense because your trying to measure a games depth without ever playing it but just seeing a few short gameplay clips. Now before you start trying to argue against me READ OVER MY POST ATLEAST 2 TIMES. This way you won't start raising a fuss over things I never said or mentioned.

Just as a note, I haven't said how it hurts the game. That would be because (as I have already stated) I'm not against WD, I just don't see why it won't be competitive if it goes or that the game will die like many seem to think, you argued against brightside saying the game wasn't just played because it was fun just after I had said I've been playing it since release with my friends and didn't even know about WD till today. The game would still be played competitively due to the fact that it is so **** popular (which isn't due to WD). If you want a way in which it hurts the game then fine, whilst you said it makes some chars tourney level chars, i talso makes it even more difficult for most of the others, anyone with enough skill can play as a char and beat someone who's just playing as someone on a "higher tier" (for the most part I don't agree with tiers) oh sure you say it means some chars like luigi rise a few tiers, but it helps a lot of the higher tiers become even better basically just screwing over the lower tiers. Now I'd be perfectly fine if WD was in Brawl, just so long as they balance it to be fair for all characters

Ok, you two are going to arguing to why WD isn't needed to just major spamming and flaming. You are even Directly saying that WAVEDASHING DOES NOT HURT THE GAME. You are not making any point now other than I do not read well and should do research on every statement I make. Now SHUT UP or TELL ME WHY WAVEDASHING IS BAD.

 

[Aiser]

Not sure about the other person but I never said WD made higher tier chars higher tier, I just said that it's stupid because it helped higher tier characters more then most of the mid-lower ones, causing further unbalance.

No just to name a few. Luigi, Mario, Doc Mario, Mewtwo. just to name a few lower tiered characters that were helped greatly from wavedashing.

I just don't understand why people seem to think that because people use it at pro level it automatically HAS to stay in, it's like people want the same game. Just because it's used in tourneys now doesn't mean it has to stay, people only use it now at tourneys because it's more difficult to win without using it, if it was removed then this problem wouldn't exist. People would still play on a pro level but you wouldn't all be whining going but it's pro so has to stay.

Wavedash isn't needed to win tournys, Ken wins by wavedashing barely, I don't think I've ever seen him wavedash more then once in a set, and thats barely.