Wario's Match-Ups!

[The Nutz of Norcal Deez]

This MU is even/+1....

for only skill can determine who beats the other person...

I played against Sky often before he moved to socal. He and I go back n forth on stage but as soon as I'm recovering and he has waft it's gg. Tires make or break the game. Have control over those on Luigi and bait our aerials and you should have advantage with your insane air mobility. Don't get jabbed in the air though, free up-b :D

 

[xzx]

@TRW: No, the purpose of this thread is not to get a number. I mean, numbers don't generally mean something (don't mistake this). I think it's better to see what can be done in this MU and how the MU is in general.

But if you guys feel that Luigi is done discussed we can move on. It's you how determine the flow of the thread! ;P (Should we move on to Lucas?)

Also I have to agree with LOE1. I feel this MU is "even", but just with Wario having a slight advantage (again, this MU ratio system sucks).

LOE1: 0
xzx: 0(/+1)
Iota: +1
TheReflexWonder: +1/+2
boss8: 0/+1
BSP: +1
(S!C): -1
Croi: +1
SuperShyGuy: +1

 

[LOE1]

lucas, ive played alot of em online, never played a good one offline. def not a +3, plus 2 probebly, though i could see it being a strong +1. lucas in the air can be an annoyance, dat nair fair and dair...ok all of his aerials lol. not to mention he has the potential to kill us at a somewhat low %. i dont believe pk fire is very useful in this mu, but it can still be randomly used from a safe distance i guess. also, i dont even need to talk about out gr stuff on lucas lol, speaks for itself, prob the reason i say its a +2 and not a +1. the basic edgeguard would be fine with lucas's recovery, free punish basicly.

i'll go with a +2, strong +1 would be ok too

 

[(S!C)]

and how is the wario vs mekos mu?

 

[LOE1]

we dont talk about that, that never happened

 

[Iota]

Wario vs Mekos is +1/0. Against any other Lucas the MU is +1/+2 imo.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Do you guys really think that Ness and Diddy Kong are equally difficult for you?

 

[LOE1]

it really depends on player skill. like there are more good diddy's than good ness's out there

 

[Iota]

I don't have a strong opinion on the MU, however majority of the players voted +1. The vote that probably mattered the most (Siebirk) voted +2.

 

[Croi]

it really depends on player skill. like there are more good diddy's than good ness's out there

Which is a moot point since MUs are supposed to assume the players are of equal skill.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Do you guys really think that Ness and Diddy Kong are equally difficult for you?

I don't think they're that far off from each other.

 

[Lord Chair]

Do you guys really think that Ness and Diddy Kong are equally difficult for you?

It's hard to say MUs are on the same level of difficulty if 3 tiers of difficulty is all you can choose from. DDD and MK aren't strictly on the same level either.

 

[DMG]

Diddy is harder

 

[BPx]

wayyyy harder

 

[Iota]

I wouldn't say the difficulty between them is large. They probably shouldn't be the same ratio number though.

I suggest we continue discussing Lucas.

 

[xzx]

What Iota said. Let's continue discussing Lucas. Am I the only one who think Lucas is underestimated? I don't think he is as bad as the Tier List (or what others) say(s). I am going to say this MU is +1 in Wario's favour since Wario doesn't really have that range to make this MU +2. However, our pesky and ever annoying grab release on him hurts him bad, especially near the edge. Gimping Lucas is still possible with a thrown bike but other than that, it's not that easy (which moves do eliminate his PKT1? Can a tire do that?). On the other hand, we can edgehog him and punish his cool down with waft/clap/f-smash, all which are situational. Both Wario and Lucas can kill, but Wario is still better at doing so due to GR and general punishes, especially off stage/recovery.

Lucas has his absurd range - it can be annoying at times and that range he has helps him in MUs like the Wario one. Other than that, it's nothing special about this MU. Don't underestimate his PK Fires, as well as Lucas himself. Mekos did beat Glutonny (although it seemed like Glutonny could have done better. Also, I'm not saying Glutonny underestimated Mekos). Lucas is also fast in the air and can read us hard with up-smash. Don't forget to (S)DI his dair by holding the analog stick upwards. A slow and painful death may await if you don't... Lucas up-air is good at keeping us at bay, I think. Anyway, +1 in Wario's favour (really, this MU is "+1.5", but the MU ratio system fails... again).


LOE1: +1/+2
Iota: +1/+2
xzx: +1

 

[#HBC | J]

+1 for Wario. It's really straight forward....but not at the same time. It's nothing too serious for Lucas to deal with compared to his other MUs but Wario does win. When I get the time I will try and get the Lucas' boards summary of the MU since it was a recent match.

 

[xzx]

LOE1: +1/+2
Iota: +1/+2
xzx: +1
J: +1

@J: Thank you, that would be appreciated.

 

[Jamwa]

Coming here after xzx posted in the Lucas thread.
Imo Wario v Lucas is +1 to Wario.
I can't really see a super awesome advantage Wario has over Lucas but he has a few small things that add up to the +1. GR isnt that bad, its mainly the waft and fsmash. not +2 from just that

 

[Biz_R_0]

Normally I'd rate it at a +1, but does GR into fart work?

 

[Iota]

No, the only kill move that works is f-smash afaik.

 

[Tesh]

dont see how that would reach consistently...

i know dtilt, jab and fsmash work but no reason not to fsmash for that 20 damage.

 

[#HBC | J]

Fsmash does not kill reliably. It does on Ness but not on Lucas. That is if I have the grab mechanics and FSmash correct but it does do damage.

 

[Tesh]

how would it do damage but not be good at killing him? its one single hit that does both.

 

[xzx]

LOE1: +1/+2
Iota: +1/+2
xzx: +1
J: +1
Jamwa: +1
Biz_R_0: +1

When fresh and near the stage, it can kill reliable. It's too OP. (And F-smash does 19% of damage, not 20% (if it is not refreshment bonused...))

 

[Luco]

I'd say a +1 Wario's favour. He has his GR stuff but Lucas has range and is proficient at not getting grabbed, enough so that the GR --> Fsmash wouldn't make it a +2 alone. Also we have an easier time recovering compared to, say Ness, though iirc your tyres can cancel PKT, we also have Zap-jump and tether recoveries as options to get back on-stage.

Also, our Nair is good against that silly airdodge you guys have.

Anyway, aside from that there's not much else I can say that hasn't been said.

 

[Biz_R_0]

I think we've kinda come to an agreement that it's around +1, and like Luco said, pretty much everything's already been said.

How about we discuss Pit?

 

[Croi]

We already discussed Pit, it's +1 (and he is therefore as difficult as both Diddy and Lucas)

 

[Biz_R_0]

Oh. If you did it didn't turn up in the search. I searched Mario and nothing came up, did you guys already do that?

 

[PMC66]

^ yes it was put at +1 for Wario.

I suggest we discuss the most pointless of all matchups to know, the one where wifi will teach you everything you need to know.

Ganondorf :/

just going to say +3/4 straight off the bat Ganon sucks, he has no positive attributes other than kill power and is a laughably bad character. Nobody should ever give him slack.

in general i feel wario completely and utterly shuts Ganon down, not only that he can chain grab him straight to death. ganon's poor OOS game means wario can get away with alot of things and all Ganon can really do is hard read or hope he lands a U-air. As wario i prefer to stay closer to the ground because U-air can actually beat us from high up like it can with captain falcon.

Only piece of advice is don't bum rush Ganon take your time, he's easy to time out and is easily wrecked by gimps chain throws and better KO moves lol.

 

[Biz_R_0]

Wario wrecks Ganon. CG shenanigans, shield pressure, very vulnerable to bite, but most of all the gimping. Throw off stage -> fart all over his predictable recovery -> ledgegrab next attempt -> he iz ded.

+4

edit: I type all of this with content because I love Ganon so much I'm sorry I promise I'll play you in the next game.

 

[xzx]

Guys guys guys...! Seriously, what the heck? We can't just move on to Ganondorf like that! For the past three main tiers (Top, High and Middle) we have discussed character after character according to the latest american tier list. We aren't "done" with Lucas yet, although it may appear so. I always leave some extra days IF. Next character we will discuss is Mario, but we are not going to do that now. I wish that more Warios could give an opinion about this MU. (Also,I hope you have read the OP...)


LOE1: +1/+2
Iota: +1/+2
xzx: +1
J: +1
Jamwa: +1
Biz_R_0: +1
Luco: +1

 

[DMG]

I assumed character discussions were going down the tier list?

 

[xzx]

Yeah, from top to bottom. How so? Anyway, your opinion about this MU?

 

[Biz_R_0]

I was told that we did Mario already.

 

[Labernash]

^^^It was a lie. Or a misconception.

Lucas is +1 Wario

Just because of Lucas' Nair. And PKT knocking us off our bike recovery. This is an easy MU for Wario, but not an extraordinarily good one. The things you can do to Lucas are few, but easy to do.

 

[xzx]

LOE1: +1/+2
Iota: +1/+2
xzx: +1
J: +1
Jamwa: +1
Biz_R_0: +1
Luco: +1
Labernash: +1


Mario is the next character. We are going to discuss him soon in about 1-2 days. We haven't discussed him yet. Next time check the OP for more info about which characters we have discussed!

 

[LOE1]

lol@people thinking wario vs ganon is +4. you all crazy.

also, we really getting to the point where people cant make ratio's cause they dont have that exp. just sayin

 

[xzx]

Clarify, please.

 

[Labernash]

He means I'm a scrub and have never played a half decent Lucas.

Which is true!!