Croi
Smash Lord
I like bite more for its intimidation. Suddenly, shield is no longer safe.
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Wario Q&A Thread
- Thread starter ssbbFICTION
- Start date
Lord Chair
Smash Master
shield was never 'safe' in the first place, bite covers options which tend to already be inferior
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Hey guys, I've got a small question :
I guess the answer is no, but I'm asking so I'll be sure.
So, my question is :
Does Wario have the time to pivot grab the opponent after a D-Throw?
I mean, framewise.
Because I did this to a CPU (
and I tried on others too) and the CG lasted longer than it was supposed to, but it was a CPU so I don't think this is guaranteed, that's why I'm asking.
I'm buffering the pivot grab like this :
(Let's say Wario facing the right)
:stick3: + :zbutton: at the same time to buffer a dashgrab, then immediatlystick4:
I guess the answer is no, but I'm asking so I'll be sure.
So, my question is :
Does Wario have the time to pivot grab the opponent after a D-Throw?
I mean, framewise.
Because I did this to a CPU (
and I tried on others too) and the CG lasted longer than it was supposed to, but it was a CPU so I don't think this is guaranteed, that's why I'm asking. I'm buffering the pivot grab like this :
(Let's say Wario facing the right)
:stick3: + :zbutton: at the same time to buffer a dashgrab, then immediatly
stick4:No. He barely has enough time during the regular CG. Pivot grabbing takes extra frames and I'm pretty sure is much harder to buffer if you base it off the Dedede Pivot Grab (however Wario starts off facing the wrong way, dunno if that makes it easier or harder)
You can Dthrow --> Buffer Turn Around Dtilt (5 Frame move) and they cannot shield
Dthrow --> Buffer Turn Around Grab (6 frame move) and they either cannot shield or only have 1 frame and thus cannot roll spotdodge etc
If you are against a wall, you can also Fart out of Dthrow cause that's like 5-6 frames (not the full waft)
You can Dthrow --> Buffer Turn Around Dtilt (5 Frame move) and they cannot shield
Dthrow --> Buffer Turn Around Grab (6 frame move) and they either cannot shield or only have 1 frame and thus cannot roll spotdodge etc
If you are against a wall, you can also Fart out of Dthrow cause that's like 5-6 frames (not the full waft)
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Okay thanks for the answer.
Facing the wrong way actually makes it easier because you need 3 inputs to buffer a reverse dash : :stick4: or :stick6: + :stick2: + :stick4: or :stick6:
You need 1 input to buffer a dash : :stick4: or :stick6:
I knew for the D-Tilt/Fart but thanks.
I don't think they have 1 frame because Bowser should be able to UpB if it was the case (and Wolf to DownB).
I think a buffered pivot grab takes 9 frames : 1 frame of dash and 8 for the pivot grab but I'm not sure.
Facing the wrong way actually makes it easier because you need 3 inputs to buffer a reverse dash : :stick4: or :stick6: + :stick2: + :stick4: or :stick6:
You need 1 input to buffer a dash : :stick4: or :stick6:
I knew for the D-Tilt/Fart but thanks.
I don't think they have 1 frame because Bowser should be able to UpB if it was the case (and Wolf to DownB).
I think a buffered pivot grab takes 9 frames : 1 frame of dash and 8 for the pivot grab but I'm not sure.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
'Everyone is there. Jason, Chuckie, Leatherface and their many friends from the Kingdom of the Mummies, Zombies and Skeletons. With a broad grin, Wario and his diabolical companion Abigor sit next to the table. They´re breeding a devillish plan...'.
Sounds like the average German comic book to me.
Sounds like the average German comic book to me.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Lord Chair
Smash Master
He plans on ditching Abigor in the end, obviously. Who or whatever Abigor may be.
Uh, Wario's over-all CG? =D I mean, the CG on Falco, Wolf, Bowser etc. Plz plz plz I'm begging you. I keep losing to Falcos and really wanna CG them in their faces.
First grab faces and grabs the opponent to the right:
Dthrow --> WAIT --> Last 10 Frames of your throw animation --> :stick4: FLICK, DO NOT HOLD. ADD Z/Grab AFTER FLICK. SHORTLY PRESS Z DO NOT HOLD, HOLDING MAKES YOU SHIELD. After this, Control Stick returns to neutral so that you're inputting turn around.
:stick2: Throw + Wait til the last frames of the throw animation+ FLICK CONTROL STICK IN THE NEW DIRECTION OF THE OPPONENT / ADD GRAB INPUT AFTER THIS FLICK + Make sure you do not hold grab or directional input, otherwise it's going to **** it up.
Dthrow --> WAIT --> Last 10 Frames of your throw animation --> :stick4: FLICK, DO NOT HOLD. ADD Z/Grab AFTER FLICK. SHORTLY PRESS Z DO NOT HOLD, HOLDING MAKES YOU SHIELD. After this, Control Stick returns to neutral so that you're inputting turn around.
:stick2: Throw + Wait til the last frames of the throw animation+ FLICK CONTROL STICK IN THE NEW DIRECTION OF THE OPPONENT / ADD GRAB INPUT AFTER THIS FLICK + Make sure you do not hold grab or directional input, otherwise it's going to **** it up.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Ayce God
RIP Nova 9
but myollnir, your ptrainer is so sexy though
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Lol thanks. I didn't say I was going to play Wario though, he's just one of my secondaries.
DK's CG is easier and works basically at any % (until much higher like 100)Oh okay, I didn't think you were talking about this because it's only 2 inputs (3 with the D-throw).
Edit : Btw, while I'm here, I can CG DK etc..., but I can't regrab Falco... Does anybody know why?
Falco's CG only starts at 57%. If you try to CG him earlier than that, he falls out of range too far. I dunno exactly why, but I have a theory on it that "should" make sense.
Also, are you doing the CG in regular Brawl mode instead of Training mode? Stale moves makes the CG work longer and better, so always practice/test out the CG in a regular brawl match.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Oh I thought it was 53%.
I'm doing it in regular mode.
I'll try again, now I'm better at buffering moves so maybe I wasn't buffering correctly.
I'm doing it in regular mode.
I'll try again, now I'm better at buffering moves so maybe I wasn't buffering correctly.
Yeah I'm nearly positive it's 57%. If you aren't sure, you can definitely start it at 60% if you wanted to. It's not as strict once you pass 57%, but you should aim for the 60's % range to start the CG so that you get the full duration off.
You will know that you buffered correctly because there's no other way to regrab Falco. You cannot "no buffer turnaround grab" Falco because he lands too far away. If you buffer the grab, you catch him as he kinda flips and lands. Starting from 60% with a fresh Dthrow, if you miss the regrab it's def not buffered, and if you land the regrab it's def buffered.
You will know that you buffered correctly because there's no other way to regrab Falco. You cannot "no buffer turnaround grab" Falco because he lands too far away. If you buffer the grab, you catch him as he kinda flips and lands. Starting from 60% with a fresh Dthrow, if you miss the regrab it's def not buffered, and if you land the regrab it's def buffered.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Ok I wasn't buffering correctly lol. Nvm, thanks for your help.
Falco's is 53-72%, according to our AT thread.
Well that sounds incorrect. 57% up to like 120ish is what I remember. I know the CG goes up to over 100%, done it up to that before starting at like 60ish.
53 to 72 sounds like as far as you can go in Training Mode, with stale moves not kicking in. Stale moves allows our CG to go on for longer.
Heck, I can regrab at 0% in training mode, although I knowwww it's not guaranteed. Idk it's weird, all I can say is that I'm 95 percent sure that we can CG Falco past 100%
OH YEAH, random tidbit that some people may find easier for the CG. Instead of pressing Z or whatever you have grab set to, you can CG the "janky way" by using shield + A. I tried it out randomly because I thought "Well technically THIS IS GRABBING, why wouldn't it work" and whala it works. SO, if it helps you any probably not, but you can use Shield + A as the grab input for the CG.
53 to 72 sounds like as far as you can go in Training Mode, with stale moves not kicking in. Stale moves allows our CG to go on for longer.
Heck, I can regrab at 0% in training mode, although I knowwww it's not guaranteed. Idk it's weird, all I can say is that I'm 95 percent sure that we can CG Falco past 100%
OH YEAH, random tidbit that some people may find easier for the CG. Instead of pressing Z or whatever you have grab set to, you can CG the "janky way" by using shield + A. I tried it out randomly because I thought "Well technically THIS IS GRABBING, why wouldn't it work" and whala it works. SO, if it helps you any probably not, but you can use Shield + A as the grab input for the CG.
Ohhhhh
Ok I was wondering if you meant that, or if you meant that was how long the CG in total lasted cause I KNOW the second part is bull**** lol. That sounds about right, I remember near the end of 60's seemed the last place you could start fresh and have it still work to 120.
I should make a video or guide or both on Wario Dthrow stuff. ****, Slants Dtilt Waft Regrab what characters what stages the frame data behind it etc
It's easier to press and release a face button than it is to press and release one of the top buttons, mostly because of finger positioning.
Alternatively, you can just press the right end of the Z button and slide off in the same direction. I hear that works well, though I don't like doing that, myself.
Alternatively, you can just press the right end of the Z button and slide off in the same direction. I hear that works well, though I don't like doing that, myself.
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
Hey, I have a question about something I had happen in a match snake vs wario. Wario swallowed the grenade and had the whole inside explosion animation, but the grenade didn't actually disappear. The nade ended up back in my hand and in the end I ended up taking the damage from the nade I thought should have been gone...
Here's the video: http://youtu.be/SRSFC3fPWpE
It happens around 1:43. Any explanations?
Also, I feel like my friend and I know this matchup pretty well but we are trying to get better. If anyone wanted to critique either of our playing, that would be much appreciated!
DMG!! What's up man? Remember me? We hung out at Genesis back in 09
Here's the video: http://youtu.be/SRSFC3fPWpE
It happens around 1:43. Any explanations?
Also, I feel like my friend and I know this matchup pretty well but we are trying to get better. If anyone wanted to critique either of our playing, that would be much appreciated!
DMG!! What's up man? Remember me? We hung out at Genesis back in 09
Sup! Genesis 1 old school, most hype I've seen at a tournament bar none. The original Mango Armada legendary, in person, impossible to duplicate.
As for the grenade thing, my guess is that it involves how "janky" Wario is when it comes to bite and explosives. For example, Wario can bite an explosive box AFTER it's exploded. Eating the 'invisible' box. I figure something similar happened with the grenade. You either caught an invisible grenade after he exploded (I see no grenade near Snake or in his hands until he reaches the area Wario is in), or Snake shielding briefly as Wario ate it had something to do with it. (Snake rolls, but briefly has shield up before then).
My guess is that it's the first, but testing that extensively might be awkward. That's not the first time bite has been janky towards exploding stuff though, but that is the first time I have seen something exactly like that.
As for the grenade thing, my guess is that it involves how "janky" Wario is when it comes to bite and explosives. For example, Wario can bite an explosive box AFTER it's exploded. Eating the 'invisible' box. I figure something similar happened with the grenade. You either caught an invisible grenade after he exploded (I see no grenade near Snake or in his hands until he reaches the area Wario is in), or Snake shielding briefly as Wario ate it had something to do with it. (Snake rolls, but briefly has shield up before then).
My guess is that it's the first, but testing that extensively might be awkward. That's not the first time bite has been janky towards exploding stuff though, but that is the first time I have seen something exactly like that.
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
Genesis 1 was definitely the best tournament I've ever been to. So much hype.
As for your possible explanations, that was actually the second time I saw it that night. The first one, he was high enough in the air for his momentum to move him off the grenade, and the grenade was there falling/visible. And as for snake shielding, normally snake's shielding only "strips" grenades if he has pulled a second grenade and shield drops it. This is what I assumed it was until this second one (the one I posted) where I didn't even pull a second grenade. It's weird, I had never seen it before. I guess it doesn't really matter too much, I was just wondering if anyone had seen it before or knew what was going on.
Edit: Another thing I just realized is that wario didn't take any damage from eating it. How long does the hitbox from eating explosives linger? (Isn't that like just as strong as his fsmash or something like that?) Cause I rolled into wario right after it, but I don't know if it would have hit me if it had been a normal eaten explosive. I think it might have to do with the timing of the bite and when he actually ate the grenade. That could be useful in a situational sort of way if wario could learn how to control that. Eat a grenade without taking damage, get the strong hitbox, and have a grenade the snake doesn't think should be there to either throw at him or shield to cover any potential punish from the snake.
As for your possible explanations, that was actually the second time I saw it that night. The first one, he was high enough in the air for his momentum to move him off the grenade, and the grenade was there falling/visible. And as for snake shielding, normally snake's shielding only "strips" grenades if he has pulled a second grenade and shield drops it. This is what I assumed it was until this second one (the one I posted) where I didn't even pull a second grenade. It's weird, I had never seen it before. I guess it doesn't really matter too much, I was just wondering if anyone had seen it before or knew what was going on.
Edit: Another thing I just realized is that wario didn't take any damage from eating it. How long does the hitbox from eating explosives linger? (Isn't that like just as strong as his fsmash or something like that?) Cause I rolled into wario right after it, but I don't know if it would have hit me if it had been a normal eaten explosive. I think it might have to do with the timing of the bite and when he actually ate the grenade. That could be useful in a situational sort of way if wario could learn how to control that. Eat a grenade without taking damage, get the strong hitbox, and have a grenade the snake doesn't think should be there to either throw at him or shield to cover any potential punish from the snake.
Chaingrab is -really- helpful, and it's really not that hard to get used to once you know how the inputs function. Everyone needs to get on that.
I would really appreciate if someone did a helpful video about Wario's CG! Despite the tips I have gotten from you I still can't manage to make it work! =(
Speaking of the CG, I have a question too: When Wario is chain-grabbing Bowser, how many frames do Wario have to regrab him since his Up-B (Whirling Fortress) gives him invincibility from frame 1-5?
Speaking of the CG, I have a question too: When Wario is chain-grabbing Bowser, how many frames do Wario have to regrab him since his Up-B (Whirling Fortress) gives him invincibility from frame 1-5?
Lord Chair
Smash Master
two left hands
I could make a video, but, I don't have a webcam, so I can't film my hands. I can just break it down and show some troubleshooting stuff.