Official Viability Ratings v2 | Competitive Impressions

[Emblem Lord]

I feel it's even. But Ryu destroys her at mid level. Utilt lock too stronk.

 

[TurboLink]

Link to watch Trela's Ryu?

 

[Radiant Hero]

As I said Ryu loses to NO ONE at the char select screen. He has the tools to win any match because he can be played in so many ways, has great specials, and the ability to CONSISTENTLY get kill confirms off SAFE POKES is a HUGE factor in a game where only a handful of characters have real confirms.

Right, I never suspected that the advantage would have been anything more than just a slight one, and that's only due to the huge disjoint Ike has over Ryu. Do you still have the same opinion of the MU?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Right, I never suspected that the advantage would have been anything more than just a slight one, and that's only due to the huge disjoint Ike has over Ryu. Do you still have the same opinion of the MU?

Indeed I do.

Ryo getting trashed for playing haphazardly against a char that thrives on foolish aggression, does nothing to sway my opinion.

 

[DanGR]

He probably banned Dreamland because that's basically BF with a lower ceiling, which you don't want against ZSS.

Dreamland's ceiling height is just a short as fd/smashville/lylat/duckhunt from the base of the stage up to the blast zone. It's just that the platforms are taller on dreamland, so the height from the tallest platform up to the blastzone is a shorter distance.

Edit: I totally misread the quoted post.

 

[DunnoBro]

Dreamland's ceiling height is just a short as fd/smashville/lylat/duckhunt from the base of the stage up to the blast zone. It's just that the platforms are taller on dreamland, so the height from the tallest platform up to the blastzone is a shorter distance.

Yes, but dreamland's ceiling is still lower than BFs.

 

[Radiant Hero]

Indeed I do.

Ryo getting trashed for playing haphazardly against a char that thrives on foolish aggression, does nothing to sway my opinion.

Ah I didn't know the set was that bad on Ryo's part... that's a shame. But also good to know for other Ike mains. Thanks for the insight man, I appreciate it.

 

[Luigi player]

Yes, but dreamland's ceiling is still lower than BFs.

Obviously, since BF has some of the furthest away blastzones from all allowed stages by a lot.

 

[AoS~Akito]

You're forgetting a certain, invincible, frame 14 endlag up smash....

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Game And Watch

Yeah ganon's and GNW's both have amazing u-smash due to IASA frames that both of them have.

 

[Charoite]

Nebulous Prime #11 is being streamed,the participants are mike kirby, johnnumbers and i think ninjalink here is the link for the stream:http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Off topic post is offtopic. Ignore

 

[Rizen]

Yeah ganon's and GNW's both have amazing u-smash due to IASA frames that both of them have.

I feel like G&W's Usmash is overrated. 14 frames end lag and partial invulnerability on his head is good don't get me wrong. The issues are unless the opponent drops down on G&W (and they should know better) G&W gets hit out of it because his body's vulnerable. It has poor reach, starts frame 24 and only lasts 2 frames. I don't think the power is good enough to justify the flaws. Ganon's Usmash by comparison has huge range, wicked knockback and starts frame 21 (but has more endlag).

I could be thinking in terms of how Brawl G&W worked too much. My G&W isn't great but he feels slow and lackluster. Correct me if I'm wrong: G&W really feel underwhelming in SSB4.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Just watched Johnumbers against MikeKirby;

Still not convinced Luigi's even against Kirby, wintermelon

 

[RonNewcomb]

Link is even with Marth but has a Big Advantage against Lucina. Wow man, good stuff.

His MU chart has serious issues but that isn't one of them. Marcina slightly outranges Link's jab, and they have the mobility to keep themselves in that range where they can hit him but he can't hit them. Which also just happens to be Marth's tipper range. If it's true that Lucina might have a better MU vs characters too speedy to properly space against, it would stand to reason that the inverse is also true.

I actually believe Yoshi goes even with Link. My reasons can be found here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/YoshiMains/comments/3f27lv/worst_match_up_for_yoshi/ctwdn6e

Agreed, Yoshi I feel is pretty even. Yoshi dislikes disjoints and his usual way of dealing with them -- egg and command tether zoning -- Link can match. Link slightly wins neutral, then dies at embarrassing% from a f-air spike soft read.

...

I dislike the ROB MU cause it feels like everything Link wants to do ROB does slightly better: dthrow uair combos, zoning, recovery, aerial disjoints, grounded framedata, etc. Link does have a slight range advantage on the ground but not the mobility to keep himself in that range. Hard to win a match on Zair alone.

I suspect Link's Wario MU is in Link's favor but... some other day.

Lol, Sheik:Link is definitely not even. Like most characters, Sheik is Link's worst matchup by far, then Fox. The rest are not too terrible though, at least nothing past a 40:60 disadvantage (but I guess that's bad in this game).

Your information is old. A few patches ago Link's tether range was doubled and he gained dthrow combos that murder fastfallers.

Agreed on 4:6. Just shows that one man's 3:7 is another man's 4:6. I mentally halved all of Radical Larry's MU numbers to normalize them, in much the same way I downshift every Pacman main's MU ratio by 0.5.

Isn't ZSS Link's worst matchup? If she is, why is she our worst matchup?

I think so. Take Sheik, and give her a Zair and grab-range to match Link's, a projectile that's trivial to start a long combo off of, KO power than ensures Links never much enjoys the benefits of his Rage, a semi-spike off a ceiling-forming side-B, all the while retaining Bouncing Fish and safe aerials.

Any slight loss to framedata as a result of these changes is, in comparison to Link's horrid framedata, purely academic.

 

[|RK|]

Just watched Johnumbers against MikeKirby;

Still not convinced Luigi's even against Kirby, wintermelon

Oh no, that matchup still sucks.

 

[Nu~]

Nebulous Prime #11 is being streamed,the participants are mike kirby, johnnumbers and i think ninjalink here is the link for the stream:http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink

Sinji (Pacman main) makes noise in nebulous as well. Consistently places in top 8

 

[KirbySquad101]

Oh no, that matchup still sucks.

Eh, I figured as much; it was pretty damn sad watching Luigi not having to respect anything Kirby did at all.

Sinji (Pacman main) makes noise in nebulous as well. Consistently places in top 8

I noticed he's going up against JTails right now, who just won 1 game off of him so far.

 

[Nu~]

Sinji takes it 2-1 from Jtails.

As I thought, the matchup is even or a slight advantage to pacman.

 

[Green L]

Why doesn't anyone crouch cancel in sm4sh? Seems like something useful

 

[Nu~]

Sinji beats ninjalink 2-1. Still looks like a slight disadvantage for us, but it's verrrry close.

 

[TurboLink]

Sinji beats ninjalink 2-1. Still looks like a slight disadvantage for us, but it's verrrry close.

Link to stream?

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Why doesn't anyone crouch cancel in sm4sh? Seems like something useful

I can't tell if you're joking

 

[Nu~]

Link to stream?

Nebulous Prime #11 is being streamed,the participants are mike kirby, johnnumbers and i think ninjalink here is the link for the stream:http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink

 

[Jaguar360]

Sinji beats ninjalink 2-1. Still looks like a slight disadvantage for us, but it's verrrry close.

Was NinjaLink using Megaman or Greninja (or neither)?

 

[Lavani]

Was NinjaLink using Megaman or Greninja (or neither)?

He was using Greninja.

 

[KirbySquad101]

JohnNumbers takes Grand Finals with Luigi (and a bit of Wii Fit) 3-2.

 

[TurboLink]

Why doesn't anyone crouch cancel in sm4sh? Seems like something useful

I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist in Smash 4.

 

[Lavani]

I'm pretty sure that doesn't existence in Smash 4.

It very much does.

 

[Trifroze]

Are there any matchups Ryu so far seems to clearly/noticeably lose presuming optimal play and not rushing into his fists?

 

[Locke 06]

Ryu is about as good as Mario. His design is good, but not stupid.


Edit: actually, I take it back. If falling aerial focus attack becomes meta, the character will be stupid. Lagless FA(DC) is really dumb and should be patched out. Lol.

 

[Djent]

9B has been struggling a lot with , whose optimal playstyle does not involve "rushing in" at all, let alone into fists. Some posters here have theorized that this is no accident, and that MM is actually a bad MU.
Interestingly, 9B also has recent (this month) losses to Ranai's and Hayato's (!), which suggests a general pattern of how to approach the Ryu MU (at least for now).

 

[TurboLink]

It very much does.

Oops, I was thinking of something else. I was thinking of when you crouch and you don't take knockback, only damage. I don't crouch cancel because I'm always preoccupied with avoiding hits. Why concern myself with crouch cancelling hits when I can try my best to avoid them altogether?

Also I just forget about it alot. :3

 

[Mario766]

That IS crouch cancelling, however not even close to as strong as Melee's Crouch Cancel.

 

[Megamang]

It was good in melee because you could be doing anything and hold down to get the effect. Against new players id CC while charging a smash to confuse the **** outta them.


Vectoring has a similar effect, hold down and go less far.

 

[Mario766]

had a similar effect*

 

[TTTTTsd]

9B has been struggling a lot with , whose optimal playstyle does not involve "rushing in" at all, let alone into fists. Some posters here have theorized that this is no accident, and that MM is actually a bad MU.
Interestingly, 9B also has recent (this month) losses to Ranai's and Hayato's (!), which suggests a general pattern of how to approach the Ryu MU (at least for now).

It's the best way to handle him but also the only way. And if he catches on or figures you out....you're dead. It's scary.

Any character that has to go in to close stocks is not gonna give Ryu a stupidly hard time. So...myeah.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you can run from Ryu and thats your general meta you will do fine. Thing is though..Sheik and ZSS eat all the chars Ryu loses too. So in tourney you will see Sheiks and ZSS clean house then Ryu utilt combos them. So in a way Sheik and ZSS kinda clean up Ryus tough matches which allows him to shine.

He is fortunate that his rough matches are against chars that die to his fellow top tiers.

But yeah risk vs reward always favors Ryu in any scenerio in neutral. It is never a good idea to attack him unless he is offstage or you have him in a real combo sequence. If you do attack him you basically signed your death warrant.

 

[Trifroze]

ZSS/Ryu co-main setup seems like a decent plan then. Going to take some weeks to get used to this character though. Since the beginning Ryu has felt like a super strong character to me (I put some focus into him when he was released) but something at the back of my mind has always been saying "nah there's no way he works that well in practice". Then 1.1.1 happens combined with Trela and 9B continuously showing what the character really does (instead of just "can do").

well ****

Wouldn't be surprised if he's top 5 after all, although I still have equally large reservations about it. Remains to be seen once people start trying to lame him out as hard as they can with characters like Sheik, ZSS and Sonic.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Eh? You are silly.

Just play ZSS full stop. Better character, far less technical. Far less work.

Like why would you make more work for yourself? There is no such thing as a successful Ryu secondary. Once you get deep in with him you will see that. He takes your full dedication.

 

[DunnoBro]

Yea Ryu could be top 5 as a solo-main but probably one of the worst secondaries since his playstyle doesn't overlap very well with this game overall.