VGBootCamp: Regarding Project M

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

"BEST" is highly subjective. Just saying.

I am the BEST Smashboards Moderator


I'm interested who may rise up to take VGBC's place as the PM streamer? Maybe this is the catalyst for a new streamer legacy to start that's soley dedicated to PM?

 

[Problem2]

Well, time to watch PM every Thursday at http://twitch.tv/tourneylocator

 

[MeteorD]

Some of these comments are ridiculous. GimR doesn't owe anybody, anything.

My sides. People paying for subscription and spreading awareness about his stream now apparently counts for nothing.

It's amazing how far Nintendrones will go to defend anything that's involved directly with them, them supporting the competitive scene has had more negative sideffects than anything. I'm going to laugh whenever someone tries to bring up #oneunit after this.

 

[Stryker]

Drop the attitude. It's entirely unnecessary and makes you look like a jerk, to use a nicer term.

Nicer Terms: We were told by figure heads of the community that we should band together as one and support all smash players.
Then gimr says "I will support only the smash players I want to." (Not even the ones who are paying my bills)
Gee, I wonder where the hateful sentiment comes in....

 

[[OCK]LLama]

Drop the attitude. It's entirely unnecessary and makes you look like a jerk, to use a nicer term.

We're in one of the most serious and salty conversations on the boards rn, I think we need to all need to take a joke and just laugh it out. Because we certainly aren't listening to each other's serious arguments.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

We're in one of the most serious and salty conversations on the boards rn, I think we need to all need to take a joke and just laugh it out. Because we certainly aren't listening to each other's serious arguments.

Too bad jokes here just makes people look like brats in this situation. I just hope this all gets straighted out for all of you PM players.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Drop the attitude. It's entirely unnecessary and makes you look like a jerk, to use a nicer term.

What attitude? I was simply referring to the slow and totally-not skyrocketing alienation of Project M and Melee players who are not conforming to Nintendo's wishes and sponsorships...to put that in nicer terms.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

We've NEVER needed nintendo until now. And we've done fine, literally we've gotten here because everyone EXCEPT nintendo has helped us.

I welcome nintendo to this community with open arms, but I also know that just letting our selves die out to money(Not talking about GimR, talking about the future) is not the answer to this new relationship.

also just posting this for the last time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_America,_Inc.

lolimplyingnnintendocantrytothreatenPM

And we should ignore Nintendo's support why?

For PM's sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

 

[Opossum]

We're in one of the most serious and salty conversations on the boards rn, I think we need to all need to take a joke and just laugh it out. Because we certainly aren't listening to each other's serious arguments.

I understand and support the need for lighthearted humor. I get it, I really do, especially in a time of strife.

It's just that when the humor used to try to quench the saltiness is vitriolic to other people or groups in the process, it stops being humor, and goes into being...jerkiness.

I hope that cleared it up a bit.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

#oneunit64
#twounitsWavedash
#threeunitsFailed
#threeunitsImproved
#fourunits4WiiU
#fiveunitsifcounting3DS
#sixpotentialunitsfeatRidley

 

[666blaziken]

For those of you who are upset about VGBC not steaming project M anymore (there are other streams too), keep in mind that melee has been in the grassroots scene for a long time, and it did just fine with the support it got. So combine that with the fact that project M isn't even finished yet, I think it's ok that melee and smash 4 can take the spotlight, because once project M is completed and (guessing) that nintendo won't be around for that long, Project M doesn't need the spotlight right now. Smash 64 doesn't have a big scene, and neither do the other fanmade smash games; we really shouldn't feel entitled.

 

[Numjoy]

Sad to see it go but losing all of VGBC from copyright would be far worse. You made the right decision.

 

[SoulPech]

Welp,

Time to unsuscribe

 

[Wise Multishine]

And we should ignore Nintendo's support why?

For PM's sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

For the community's sake. A partnership with Nintendo could be very toxic. We were fine before Nintendo recognized us. The community seemed very content with supporting themselves. We got through the worst of it and we came out stronger than before.

I'll reinforce that I'm not angry at Nintendo. (although they have been making a lot of mistakes lately) The invitational was a beautiful thing, but I don't think we need them.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

And we should ignore Nintendo's support why?

For PM's sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

For the reason that they do not support Smash Bros players. They support Sm4sh players due to that being a corporately-beneficial decision. People have feeling, companies do not extend those feelings without the need for financial gain. They do not plan to grow the scene of a product of no value to them, they plan on cutting out the parts of the community they find "unwanted" by pushing all games not fitting into company mentality out of the spotlight, and out of the sight of esports watchers.

 

[Phyvo]

You're acting like Nintendo has taken any legal action in the past against PM.

You're also implying Nintendo has taken legal action before against mods and won in court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_America,_Inc.

Read up, If PM is ever threatened by Nintendo, this is how it will go down.

But I also think anybody thinking Nintendo will C&D PM is just ignorant. Not stupid, ignorant

While I'm optimistic about PM's future, PM is a mod made by fans rather than a company. I doubt the PM dev team has the money to defend themselves in court.

 

[Hellrazor]

Well, this is rather pathetic. Logical, yes, but pathetic nonetheless. Now I just eagerly await Sm4sh to die down and Nintendo to keep its grubby mod-hating hands away from competitive Smash or to change its mindset. Guess I'll start watching TL more often in the meantime.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

If you didn't see this coming a mile away, you must not game on PC much. Mods can cause trouble, mods that make money for people even more so, so mods can and do get shut down. Its a fact of life, at the very least its just a streamer instead of Nintendo themselves shutting down the entire project.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Well, this is rather pathetic. Logical, yes, but pathetic nonetheless. Now I just eagerly await Sm4sh to die down and Nintendo to keep its grubby mod-hating hands away from competitive Smash or to change its mindset. Guess I'll start watching TL more often in the meantime.

I would really like it if Nintendo was more welcoming of non-profit mods. That's the reason why I love Berhseada's glitch ridden games. For thier amazing mods.

 

[SevereScreamo]

Wow this is actually sad to see how hard it is for some people to comprehend the decision GimR made really makes our community look bad when kids who don't know what they are talking about leave comments calling GimR a sell out when he made the right decision like would you rather no more PM on VGBC until he finds somewhere to archive or no VGBC at all because with PM on GimR's channel that would be a very possible reality for VGBC to just get shut down I'd rather lose PM than lose VGBC entirely use your head before you comment also there is now a market for PM streams and archived Tourneys I know that some one will come along and fill that market and if by chance no one does than you people who are calling him a sell out should.

 

[The Slayer]

For those of you who are upset about VGBC not steaming project M anymore (there are other streams too), keep in mind that melee has been in the grassroots scene for a long time, and it did just fine with the support it got. So combine that with the fact that project M isn't even finished yet, I think it's ok that melee and smash 4 can take the spotlight, because once project M is completed and (guessing) that nintendo won't be around for that long, Project M doesn't need the spotlight right now. Smash 64 doesn't have a big scene, and neither do the other fanmade smash games; we really shouldn't feel entitled.

Nintendo is fine business wise. They have been doing some quirk things as of late, but still doing a lot better than a couple of competitors in the gaming market. Stop the doom-saying. Even then, everyone will be dead by that time for it to matter.

 

[[OCK]LLama]

And we should ignore Nintendo's support why?

For PM's sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

Alright so, lets just kill years of hard work of the dev team and the community just so Nintendo-Senpai can respect up for 4 months then drop us for splatoon.

Also, for a more serious answer: Nintendo, of all sponsors, has done the least and is asking the most. It's simple business, they cannot threaten any of us, and if they do, it's the persons decision (like GimR's decision) to take down their own content.

For the smash community as a whole, Nintendo, not going to lie, has been the most cancerous relationship we've had. Because of how we choose to handle it.

Nintendo did not ask anything of Apex or of GimR, it was the content creators/TO's own choice, which I can respect. Supporting PM and supporting Nintendo are not mutually exclusive. Nintendo only dislikes PM on their own content like MiiVerse, acting out of worry first is not going to get us places. Neither is ragging on nintendo, but it's a lot less risk if we rag on nintendo. Jeopardizing the entire PM community(***not talking about gimr) for something so unlikely as a full-long time sponsorship by Nintendo, and jeopardizing it because of a knee-jerk reaction to what Nintendo has done to the past with PM on their own social media (miiverse) is not fair to the PM community.

We shouldn't Jeopardize our chances with Nintendo either, but we shouldn't have to kill off one of our most passionate and self-providing communities to do it, either. If GimR feels this way, fine, it is his stream, his responsibility, we can move to another stream. But when nintendrones and reasonable community members start wanting to kill PM or discontinue support of it as a whole, that's when we've gone too far.

 

[ZainreFang]

That's years of work being squandered. I feel sad for the PM Team.. Sorry guys. I hope that somehow your brilliant skills can be used to create another successful product(That isn't so prone to copyright infringement).

 

[Hellrazor]

And we should ignore Nintendo's support why?

For PM's sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

This line of thought sounds an awful lot like favoring severing an unharmed limb for a new toaster over keeping all limbs intact and healthy and living on with a perfectly fine, average toaster.

 

[[OCK]LLama]

While I'm optimistic about PM's future, PM is a mod made by fans rather than a company. I doubt the PM dev team has the money to defend themselves in court.

Most of the PM Dev team have day jobs/full time jobs.

The lack of ad revenue from the site is a big concern, but yeah. This is what worries me, Unless StrongBad pulls out the fat stacks for a lawyer (20XX paycheck), this also would be a risky defense. I'm talking in general about the law, not about the case itself though, as nintendo is in the wrong in the law, and they know it.

 

[chaosmasterro]

Before Smash 4 came out and PM 3.5 I enjoyed PM for what it is. I still appreciate the work that was put into it. However, the single fact that PM was a mod was its upcoming and its downfall. It was inevitable, unless by some miracle Nintendo decides to pick PM up and license it this was going to happen one way or another.

 

[D.Chilly]

Meh

Hey guys,

As you might have noticed, we've been toning down our Project M coverage in recent months. With the release of Smash 4 and the continued revitalization of the Melee scene, there are more content opportunities now than ever. These recent opportunities have vaulted VGBC into the spotlight, but in some ways this has come at a cost.

As it stands now, Project M exists in a legal gray area. Project M's uncertain legality has the potential to put the other goals of VGBC for the wider Smash community in jeopardy. We are working on securing partnerships that will allow us to grow the community faster than ever before with new shows, tournaments, and other content. 2015 will be another crazy year for Smash, and as a small business with limited resources, it's too risky to invest a significant portion of our time and money into a game that could damage our business with a copyright strike at any time.

VGBC will no longer be streaming Project M​

The more visible PM becomes, and the closer VGBC is associated with PM, the higher the likelihood we face more direct legal action. Given this, we will no longer be streaming PM content for the foreseeable future.We will also be taking down our PM content from YouTube. Don't worry - these videos will not be destroyed. We are working on an arrangement that will see them relocated to a new home.


In regards to the #FreeGimR movement, we do understand that a large portion of our initial #FreeGimR subs were not only fans of VGBC, but fans of Project M. If you are a sub, please check your private messages. We will be sending you a personal message soon.

We would like to thank the PMDT for an amazing relationship and for working so closely with us over the past two years. It's rare and exciting to work with people who are as passionate about Smash as we are. Making a living creating content around a game we've loved for well over a decade has been an incredible and humbling experience. This is the first time we've had to make such a hard decision, but in order to continue doing what we love we have to protect ourselves legally.

- Calvin “GimR” Lofton

PS: We were not presented with any Project M termination contract from Team Apex. That rumor is unfounded and has no part in our decision to discontinue Project M streaming and content.

Meh. Tourney locator has better PM players anyways

 

[Hellrazor]

Before Smash 4 came out and PM 3.5 I enjoyed PM for what it is. I still appreciate the work that was put into it. However, the single fact that PM was a mod was its upcoming and its downfall. It was inevitable, unless by some miracle Nintendo decides to pick PM up and license it this was going to happen one way or another.

Or they could simply not give a ****. I'd rather like it if they did. We made our own toy, and we're having fun with it, but papa Nintendo doesn't have to take it away simply because it's a modified version of what he gave us.

 

[Teh-Shlurpie]

I find this entire reveal to be extreme miss timed, if only this was said and disclosed upon earlier with i dunno, an actual response? opposed to what came across to me as fairly empty words and a casual brush to the side.

I understand the decision and respect it (as most of us probably do) I just feel this was dealt with extremely poorly

 

[MegaMissingno]

And we should ignore Nintendo's support why?

For PM's sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

We should drop PM and its community why?

For Nintendo's Sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

 

[Harley Pawluk]

I would really like it if Nintendo was more welcoming of non-profit mods. That's the reason why I love Berhseada's glitch ridden games. For thier amazing mods.

YES, THIS IS WHAT NINTENDO NEEDS TO MOVE TOWARDS. Bethesda has always supported mods for their games. It's why they releasing the tools to do so. Oblivion is 10 years old and it's still being modded, MORROWIND IS STILL MAKING MONEY AND BEING MODDED. And that game has aged as well as a bad pickle.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Sad to see it go but losing all of VGBC from copyright would be far worse. You made the right decision.

Meanwhile VGBC is making copyright claims against people using publicly available videos they "own." Careful making gfycats of hype moments or combo videos, friends.

MORROWIND IS STILL MAKING MONEY AND BEING MODDED. And that game has aged as well as a bad pickle.

Why whatever could you mean?

 

[Chedder456]

You picked them over us. Good to know where your priorities lie, you ****ing sellout. TLOC is going to thrive when all of your PM subs move to them.

 

[HalcyonDays]

And we should ignore Nintendo's support why?

For PM's sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

This is mainly out of curiosity's sake, and I honestly don't mean any malicious undertones in this, but what exactly has Nintendo contributed to the competitive community recently that we haven't already been able to do in the past before their recent involvement?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

We should drop PM and its community why?

For Nintendo's Sake? I'm not going to want to do it for that.

Cute.

I don't think screwing over Melee or Smash 4 is worth it for PM. Support is better in the long run if PM has to stay grassroots and not in the spotlight.

It's what happens when your game using someone else's work as a baseline.

 

[ToonKake]

as much as i really love nintendo and i really hate to say this, but they should really just stay away from the competitive scene. they just prevented a community from growing. its only a matter of time that they will pull melee from tourneys cause they see smash 4 isnt getting as much attention from the comp. scene.(A.K.A. Zer0 winning APEX 2015 Smash4)

I have a Feeling somthing like that may happen with Smash 4 & Melee both at Evo with Nintendo supporting so they can push Smash 4 Then prob its just gonna be SMash 4 to Evo 2016 With Melee out .......i dont wanna think like this but its my gut tellin me it MAY Happen.

 

[Aninymouse]

It's kind of sad how the very first comment on this news story pretty much alluded to the kicking and screaming that was soon to follow. But is it really inevitable? Do we really want the Smash community to be known for its ****-flinging? Stay classy, P:M supporters.

I don't play P:M, but I do enjoy a lot of the ideas and work that went into it. Even so, it's a fan project that borrows a ton of official copyrighted content owned by a private business. P:M does not own half its assets, so how does it make sense to get upset when your grip on P:M begins to slip? You never had P:M. It was never yours to own... even if you didn't need the Brawl disc at all, all those characters and franchises aren't yours, either.

It sucks that there won't be anymore VGBC videos of Xanadu P:M. I really enjoyed watching those. But you know... it only makes sense for this to happen. I really appreciate VGBC and I will continue to support them.

 

[cocoapups]

So it's just out of paranoia for what might happen? Seems pretty absurd to me.

Well what "might happen" could potentially lead to the downfall of vgbc. Gimr made and unfortunate yet reasonable decision in the best interest of his company. You can't fault him for that.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Urrgh. I ****ing despise Smash 4 for this. I despise it on principle. Nintendo/Sakurai have a perfect, pristine fighting game legacy IN THE PALM OF THEIR HANDS and they choose to spit on it in favour of casuals. Hell - Technical depth didn't stop people playing Melee. Hell - Just take Smash 4. Re-release it in a while with an "Advanced Edition" option that lets you fix the dumb ledge mechanics, put wave-motion back in and generally un**** the game. I'd concede the loss of L-Cancelling as frankly it's false depth. But the movement and recovery stuff is absolutely key and their point blank refusal is naught but betrayal of the only portion of their fan base that cares.

Have you made a game before? - Sakurai 2014

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This is mainly out of curiosity's sake, and I honestly don't mean any malicious undertones in this, but what exactly has Nintendo contributed to the competitive community recently that we haven't already been able to do in the past before their recent inclusion?

I know for a fact set-ups were donated at APEX from Nintendo, not all not some. Might be more to come in the future.