VGBootCamp: Regarding Project M

[EpixAura]

P

Haha... Give me a break. You act like it's one or the other. I play every smash game at my local weeklies.Including PM.I just recognize that the PM community is entitled and spoiled For a large part

It's hard not to see it as a "one or the other" kind of thing. On a larger scale, these games can't coexist as long as Nintendo is involved, and the last few months as well as this are strong evidence of this. Personally, the PM community is no more entitled than any other community, and more importantly, that isn't even the issue here. If you can't understand that I don't know what else to say.

 

[Wise Multishine]

The competitive community was healthy and growing before Nintendo started to recognize us. The invitational tournament was an amazing gesture, but this is a very disheartening situation. I'm not sure what PM is to do now. It'll be a miracle if it starts growing again.

This entire article seems very dodgy to me. What happens if Sm4sh goes the way of Brawl? A Nintendo partnership may prevent Sm4sh from dying, but is that really healthy for the community? I love and respect Melee, but are we going to keep playing it for another 14 years?

"We are working on securing partnerships that will allow us to grow the community faster than ever before."

This quote in particular very much scares me.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It's not like a huge portion of his money and success came from the PM community or anything. Unlike the Smash 4 community, who had Nintendo practically pay the game's way into the scene, the PM community had to grow on it's own. I don't want to hear anything about being spoiled from a part of the Smash 4 community.

For someone that doesn't want to be called spoiled, you sure are acting spoiled

 

[Reidlos Toof]

You used the PM community to gain success and now that we are being attacked by everyone around us, you tuck tail and run to save your precious money, connections, and fame. It is entirely expected, but still very unfortunate. I wish you all the misfortune you deserve.

 

[Sen. Sawft]

As someone who played PM a lot, this does make me sad. HOWEVER, PM is still a mod of a game. If removing PM from the broadcast list is necessary for the growth of VGBootCamp, then so be it.

 

[MegaMissingno]

I dont want to hear any #OneUnit **** after this. Hypocrites. If we were #OneUnit we would be supporting EVERY smash community.

#OneUnitExceptForProjectM

 

[IvanTehFennec]

http://puu.sh/fx37v/d2cb3814c0.png

Done with his ass

 

[Gawain]

It's hard not to see it as a "one or the other" kind of thing. On a larger scale, these games can't coexist as long as Nintendo is involved, and the last few months as well as this are strong evidence of this. Personally, the PM community is no more entitled than any other community, and more importantly, that isn't even the issue here. If you can't understand that I don't know what else to say.

You don't know what to say, that is correct. PM is a mod. It shouldnt be a huge main event. The main smash games coexist fine with Nintendo and actually have a professional future. And even disregarding that, this is about VGBCs decision. Which is ridiculous to get angry about. You can't dictate what people do. We don't live in a leftist scumhole just yet. They have the right to cancel it and if people don't like it they can move on and not try to grief them for it.

 

[EpixAura]

For someone that doesn't want to be called spoiled, you sure are acting spoiled

I've been playing PM since day 1, and even if I haven't been a leading figure in the community, I've helped grow the scene in my community. What part of being upset that the game I love is getting the short end of the stick (in favor of Smash 4, a game I and many others can see no future in, and which has done nothing to earn place in the competitive scene) is spoiled?

It's not like I believe complaining is going to to change anything, and I don't believe GimR made the wrong decision. I'm just trying to make the point that a lot of people are very upset, and have a very good reason to be.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I think dealing with Nintendo, a very large and successful company, in any sort of legal confrontation should be outright avoided if it looks ill for the person.

Let's not forget that Universal, a massive juggernaut in the film industry, filed a lawsuit against Nintendo for Donkey Kong. Nintendo was a much smaller company then, and despite this, Nintendo beat Universal. Imagine how powerful a company Nintendo is now. I wouldn't want to tango with that.

But yes, I would think that Nintendo would have the decency to contact VGBootCamp but, regardless, GimR would still be getting the backlash and angry letters if that was the case.

I'm sure angry letters wasn't the reason more so than GimR preempting any potential issues with Nintendo. When we look at the situation, it's probably for the best, even if dropping PM is a hard and bitter horse pill to take down our throats, no?

 

[Code Bread]

I'm not going to say this is would be a non-issue if he had said this earlier

It's not.

They did it to support something they enjoy, and now that money is going to something else entirely.

So don't.

 

[SmashRayner]

I understand where GimR is comin' from with this.
Nintendo should totally do what Valve did with GMod and DOTA and make this official. PM was made for the fans. by the fans and I don't see why the two can't simply just compromise or get along. idk it's probably a little more complicated than that.
PS: Snake and Lucas for DLC pls

 

[EpixAura]

It's not.

So don't.

I don't think I need to address the problems with this comment.

 

[Joshtrip1]

Guys Project M is down one stream but it will still live on strong.

 

[Damp]

you really think gimr, the guy who provides free high quality streams and vods had a plan to exploit the pm community by "taking their money" and then "turning his back"
this is obviously just a legal issue

I'm sure he didn't plan on doing it, but he did do it.

 

[SevereScreamo]

Wow this is actually sad to see how hard it is for some people to comprehend the decision GimR made really makes our community look bad when kids who don't know what they are talking about leave comments calling GimR a sell out when he made the right decision like would you rather no more PM on VGBC until he finds somewhere to archive or no VGBC at all because with PM on GimR's channel that would be a very possible reality for VGBC to just get shut down I'd rather lose PM than lose VGBC entirely use your head before you comment also there is now a market for PM streams and archived Tourneys I know that some one will come along and fill that market and if by chance no one does than you people who are calling him a sell out should do it yourself and quit complaining because it makes you look bad.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm not sure why people are blaming Nintendo.

We don't even have proof they even did anything.

 

[Jackson]

Good call, GimR. Just focus on Melee.

 

[Sheepomg]

So can some company just make a game that is exactly like melee/PM but actually embraces its competitive community?

A little help Blizzard? Anyone?


An extreme disappointment VGBC.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Let's not forget that Universal, a massive juggernaut in the film industry, filed a lawsuit against Nintendo for Donkey Kong. Nintendo was a much smaller company then, and despite this, Nintendo beat Universal. Imagine how powerful a company Nintendo is now. I wouldn't want to tango with that.


I'm sure angry letters wasn't the reason more so than GimR preempting any potential issues with Nintendo. When we look at the situation, it's probably for the best, even if dropping PM is a hard and bitter horse pill to take down our throats, no?

That's what I originally was saying <,<

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

Some of you are taking this too far and putting hate where it doesn't belong. Salty as hell.

This should be expected from this community though I suppose, now that I think about it...

 

[pokemario]

brawl was a slap in the face from sakurai, fyi

Agreed, but Brawl was still possible to play competitively. But this is Sakurai's game, we should respect it. Our right to play however we want is up to us, but completely changing the game is disrespect IMO.

 

[Frost | Odds]

You used the PM community to gain success and now that we are being attacked by everyone around us, you tuck tail and run to save your precious money, connections, and fame. It is entirely expected, but still very unfortunate. I wish you all the misfortune you deserve.

I'm angry as hell about this decision, but personal attacks are totally unwarranted. No need to muddy our legitimate complaints with insults like this.

PM is a mod. It shouldnt be a huge main event.

It's cute that you think the distinction between a "real game" and a "mod" is whether or not the devs happen to work in a single big building with a shiny corporate logo on it, or not.

 

[Claire Diviner]

That's what I originally was saying <,<

I know. I was just building on what you were saying. ;3

 

[[OCK]LLama]

Back in the day, Nintendo sued game genie and the court ruled in favor of genie. So game mods that are nonprofit and even some that are FOR PROFIT like GAME GENIE and ACTION REPLAY are indeed LEGAL

The entire legal complex with PM is dumb. Nintendo is pulling out their E-**** and pretending to support us, but in reality we're being ****ED OVER.

Nintendo cannot and will not take PM to court or call for C&D, and if they do, PM can fight back, because honestly this is just gross, and they've lost their fair share of court cases before.

 

[NinthWonder]

This whole Melee v. P:M v. Smash 4 thing will finally tear up "one unit" I suppose.

Also, people complaining: you are NOT baseless. A bunch of white knights are drifting around claiming you're like whiny brats, but honestly, this vague post brings more questions than answers, and as a proud P:M player this is a very hard update to bear.

Now that Nintendo is in the scene and games are exploding in popularity, money will dominate. Nintendo can cripple P:M through legal threats/actions because it's possible. They KNOW they can't touch Melee and they'll only promote Smash 4.

They'll suffocate P:M and force streamers to abandon it to allow for the main games to take the stage.

Feel free to call me a whiny child, but this is how it will probably go. I'm going to go to P:M tournaments and keep them going and be as vocal as possible for this community, but the future is bleak.

 

[pokemario]

Sakurai shouldn't intentionally make smash competitively non viable then. This is probably the dumbest counter-pm argument I've ever read and it's disheartening to know how much such stupidity perpetuates itself since I've seen this same trash on multiple occasions.

I'm not trying to counter PM, I don't see the implication of that. I just think it's his game, we can play it however we want, but it's his. Making our own is fine, and I believe that modding is fine. Maybe it's just me liking Sakurai a lot for what he's done. I will stop posting here so I don't have to deal with backlash after this.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm gonna be totally honest, all I read in Gimr's post was "Look at all the money we can potentially get from Nintendo if we stop streaming PM!"

Just waiting for the day competitive Smash 4 crashes and burns, and Nintendo turns a blind eye to the competitive scene again. It's fast approaching.

 

[MrTele]

honestly, screw nintendo, they havent done **** for the community in 15 damn years, PM has helped the community get regular viewership that melee didn't sustain, the only reason VGBootcamp got regular views was because PM, melee can't do that because watching mid level players in melee is dull, but in PM it's still exciting. NorCal still supports PM more than anything else, it has more entrants and big tournaments than melee ever gets. I saw this coming a mile away, but all i can say is I hope there will be a stream that will support PM loyally and not **** ride Nintendo after they FINALLY decide to help us out, **** Sakurai, peace.

 

[flat man]

subbed pm is why i watch the stream. i understand why but **** giving 5 $ to something i don't wanna see

 

[Streetwize]

You know... This hurts. PM was the reason I got back into playing Smash, and VGBC helped connect me to all these other people. It also eventually led me to becoming a tester for Rivals of Aether. This whole chain of events has done so much for me. To have my roots burned away from me now is heartbreaking. I'm not angry though; I'm just sad. I'm man enough able to move on peacefully. At least I still have somewhere to go after all thanks to everything that has happened in my relatively short time here. Who knows? Maybe we'll find other places to go that will stay more active regarding Project M.

 

[Hana Na Tahou]

Just a list of things, or my two cents:
1. I understand this completely, and honestly i'd do the same thing.
2. One Unit was always a lie, and those who thought it wasn't i kinda feel bad for.
3. This shouldn't stop your community from playing the game. If it does, you never cared much in the first place
4. Smash 4 isn't killing PM, from this standpoint, it would appear Nintendo's involvement in the "community" is. If they weren't involved with this "community", PM would still be streamed by VGBC, because this looming threat to the game wouldn't be as big, so with that said, it's like some of you think the game is killing another. Once again, if Nintendo wasn't getting involved, PM would be fine and more than likely getting bigger.
5. tbh, a lot of the PM players seem to complain a lot when they don't get what they want. If it were Smash 4, you wouldn't care i don't think (not that all do, some are wonderful people) take a sip of the truth tea, cause this seems like karma a bit, don't laugh at a flat tire, as yours may pop next.
6. Most of you who call GimR a "sellout" more than likely would do the same thing. If this was your way of making a living, and you had to make a decision to keep something you loved alive, you would do it, i guarantee it.
I never played PM before, but i really do hope the community will come together and instead of complaining, use this as motivation to make your community even bigger. Why should one thing completely stop an ENTIRE community of people from playing and supporting a game? That would be stupid to tell you the truth. Get together and find ways to keep it alive. If you love it, screw what other people think, it's your game, embrace it and don't let it die. It'll only die if you let it die.

Good luck PM, live long and prosper <3

 

[Blubolouis]

How I see it:
-VGBC will definitly get bigger, not only because it's a quality stream or because it's the main stream for the growing scene that is smash (all games included, except Brawl because this game is much more abandoned than PM is) but also because now nintendo has gotten an interest in the competitive scene. As VGBC grows, every game will gain exposure.
-Nintendo has been watching PM, as we know, but has never taken action, probably because it just doesn't have enough influence/visibility, so they see no reason to act.

Now VGBC streaming PM would mean it gaining visibility in quantities that would make it dangerous regarding the way nintendo treats it (ignoring it). They would probably take action to take it down, either to protect brawl/their ID, or to ensure smash4 gets this visibility. PM would at the very least be pulled from VGBC, and more probably hunted/cease and desist'd. VGBC would also get hurt in the process.

So really as the game gains visibility, I only see a lose/lose situation. It would require PM along with the rest of the smash community, to stay "under the radar" to not get noticed by nintendo. Except competitive smash has gone beyond under the radar. Realistically, in the long run, things were always going to be complicated for PM; and that's starting.

 

[Harley Pawluk]

[quote="IvanTehFennec,
Done with his ***[/quote]
Good, then stop posting on this thread. All your doing is proving that your an ass.

 

[QWA]

I'm not mad, just a bit disappointed. VGBC blew up like it did in large part because of Project M, so it's sad to see him do this. It's understandable of course, just sad. I'll just use my $5 elsewhere, I suppose.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Some of these comments are ridiculous. GimR doesn't owe anybody, anything. Its his channels, and if he wants to make sure he can continue doing what he does he isn't going to show off what is in Nintendo's eyes, an illegal use of their product. And until further notice by Nintendo or the law, it will stay like that. Its the sad truth but its the truth non the less. And yes its a "what if" thing going on but Smash has a lot of potential, and throwing PM in the mix will not work out. More PM popularity, more pressure on Nintendo to take action. They have ignored it so far, but you can only ignore something for so long. Again, its GimR's channels, his company, and I for one am happy he will take the necessary steps so he can continue to grow the Smash community. PM is fantastic, its fast, fun, and still Smash Bros. But its not going to make or break the community, and to me is only something that can grow popularity of Smash horizontally, not vertically like Melee or 4 can, which is backed by Nintendo theme selves. Smash has finally caught Nintendo's attention, and I for one wouldn't want a mod to get in the way of that, and GimR is obviously thinking in the same light. PM is still here, it will live, and VGBC will continue to grow the community with their high quality streams.

 

[Gawain]

I'm angry as hell about this decision, but personal attacks are totally unwarranted. No need to muddy our legitimate complaints with insults like this.


It's cute that you think the distinction between a "real game" and a "mod" is whether or not the devs happen to work in a single big building with a shiny corporate logo on it, or not.

Never said it wasn't a game. Nice strawman.You also missed the part where i said i play PM. You entitled folk are really defensive

 

[assassin_marth]

GimR,

I know you're gonna get **** for this, but I just wanna say thank you for what you've done for PM coverage thus far, and that I respect your decision to distance yourself from PM on legal grounds. I probably speak for more than just myself when I say thank you for directly addressing this point to our community, and that I wish you the best going forward. It hurts my heart to see PM go, but I will continue to support VGBC as a general smash platform.

P.S. This won't stop the PM tourney at Xanadu, only the streaming and posting of VoDs, right?

I totally agree with you! Although we won't be seeing much P.M. from VGBootCamp anymore, it's amazing to see that GimR did so much for the P.M. community with S@X. P.M. was the reason I'm im this community now, and it might be sad to see this happen, but thanks for the awesome moments you brought us through P.M.!

 

[Galespark]

Why is people acting like GimR is in debt with yall? Lmao the f out of here he is not. Its his stream and he does whatever is more convenient for them. There are dozens of other streams out there for you to watch. PM is not going to die because VGBC doesn't stream it anymore, so stop complaining and looking like assholes and support your game in other streams and going to tournaments.

 

[GangsterPuff]

Does anyone know if clash tournaments still stream PM?