VGBootCamp: Regarding Project M

[Road Death Wheel]

Lol nintnedo was not even mentioned in the article yet people are pointing there pitch forks at them. Way to look uneducated and savage. we all know what happens when you assume.

 

[RanserSSF4]

i too, am very disappointed that PM will no longer be streamed or uploaded to VGBC channel

i 100% understand his point and decision (i would do the same thing, if i had no other choice). it's not the end of the PM community, as we have other streamers such as TourneyLocator, and we can still grow the community even more.

Although my main focus is smash 4 atm (don't hate on me), i still like PM a lot and respect its community.

Despite the loss of PM at VGBC, i'll still watch their Smash 4 and melee content as i love both games (i do think smash 4 can be more entertaining to watch than brawl, but melee is just more better and enjoyable to watch).

 

[toro194]

PM as grassroots isn't necessarily a bad thing. The community would have control.

 

[Goop]

For what it's worth, I support you GimR. You have a difficult choice, one that I am sure you did not make lightly, and one in which you are likely to upset very important people to you, one way or another.

As far as I see it, you can either grow your business, and help broaden the Smash community further with more sponsorships, investment, and exposure; or continue to support a game which you have been instrumental in helping to raise up and grow.

I think only a cynical person would say you are doing this for selfish reasons considering how many unpaid, overworked, and grassroot events you have supported time and time again.

You do what you need to do to continue your success, and what you feel is in the best interest of the community at large. At this point I feel you have earned our trust and support, and we know your heart is in the right place.

I will be donating to your channel shortly here. Good luck in 2015, and long live smash!

 

[Hellrazor]

Lol nintnedo was not even mentioned in the article yet people are pointing there pitch forks at them. Way to look uneducated and savage. we all know what happens when you assume.

Who else would take legal action against PM? Microsoft?

 

[Aceroth]

I subscribed to VGBC to "free GIMR" in order to see more quality Project M content. I will now be unsubscribing. Sad to see VGBC make this decision, even though it makes sense from a business perspective. It feels bad that VGBC is turning its back on its roots, but it is what it is. I will put my money towards more deserving streams in the future.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Who else would take legal action against PM? Microsoft?

All the other company they took stages from, All the people they took music from, ect. Hell there is Persona q music in there, Atlus could go at them

 

[chaosmasterro]

Or they could simply not give a ****. I'd rather like it if they did. We made our own toy, and we're having fun with it, but papa Nintendo doesn't have to take it away simply because it's a modified version of what he gave us.

I do agree with that but when a company is trying to make revenue off of an product and their target audience/viewers see something like PM that takes away their revenue from their product, that's a problem for the corporation. As a fan I'm upset just like everyone else but on the business side of things I can REALLY understand that. I do not want these people to carry a lawsuit so big that their grand kids are in debt.

 

[KoNfucius]

Unsubbing.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

This is bull****. I am going to start a "****Nintendo" channel on Twitch that streams exclusively P:M. First Apex and know this. I suggest anyone who disapproves this move by Gimr to look for a channel that streams P:M and subscribe to that one. If you like to see P:m put your money on it, otherwise it will die off. P:M is a fantastic project that deserves all the exposure it can get and it is up to the community if we let it die or not. I hope other streamers do not follow this bull**** move, we have right to watch P:M and Nintendo can go **** themselves with all the profit they make out of Smash 4 already (not to mention Brawl).

E. Sorry about the rant. I hate when people like Gimr get intidated by big corporations abusing their power.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

All the other company they took stages from, All the people they took music from, ect. Hell there is Persona q music in there, Atlus could go at them

...isn't that just with the Custom PM music packs?

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

"I love and respect Melee, but are we going to keep playing it for another 14 years?"

yes

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Be strong, GimR. You do the community a great service.

I love seeing people yell and scream, "Anyone can run a stream." Then go do it. I expect 30 new streams at the next tournament... or I'll just watch VGBC as usual.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

This is bull****. I am going to start a "****Nintendo" channel on Twitch that streams exclusively P:M. First Apex and know this. I suggest anyone who disapproves this move by Gimr to look for a channel that streams P:M and subscribe to that one. If you like to see P:m put your money on it, otherwise it will die off. P:M is a fantastic project that deserves all the exposure it can get and it is up to the community if we let it die or not. I hope other streamers do not follow this bull**** move, we have right to watch P:M and Nintendo can go **** themselves with all the profit they make out of Smash 4 already (not to mention Brawl).

....Well ****.

Dat rant tho.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

...isn't that just with the Custom PM music packs?

yeah but did the ask Atlus to use the music?
I don't know much of legal stuff, feel free to correct me, but don't they need to ask them first?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Who else would take legal action against PM? Microsoft?

soooo then your acknowledging PM is illegal and that nintendo has been letting it live then.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

yeah but did the ask Atlus to use the music?
I don't know much of legal stuff, feel free to correct me, but don't they need to ask them first?

Eh, I dunno.

I suppose the PMDT can't really he held accountable for having Persona q music in PM, because its not like they have it in their download pack already just sitting there.

When you hear it on PM streams, its usually because of other peoples custom music packs.

 

[Squii The Fish]

So now P:M has to be even more grassroots and underground while VG goes off to make mad dollars?

Such is life man.

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

Lol nintnedo was not even mentioned in the article yet people are pointing there pitch forks at them. Way to look uneducated and savage. we all know what happens when you assume.

"The more visible PM becomes, and the closer VGBC is associated with PM, the higher the likelihood we face more direct legal action."

what else does that mean?

 

[HalcyonDays]

I know for a fact set-ups were donated at APEX from Nintendo, not all not some. Might be more to come in the future.

I see, can we expect more support from them in the future? Perhaps support that's beneficial in a way that only Nintendo could provide?

I'd really like to assess the long-term effects of what official Nintendo support might be like in a community that was primarily grassroots, and has been for quite some time, with no real ill effects at that.

I know some companies, like Capcom (although I'm not too fond of them at the moment) have apparently even gone as far as actually putting money into tournament pots. Good amounts, at that. So I hear anyways, I'll need to look into it.

Granted, I think it was some time ago, and the scenes for those games have died down in lieu of newer games in the series.

Melee is especially interesting considering it's survived over a decade without support from the originating company, and yet its scene continues to thrive.

I'll have to admit, I'm somewhat worried Nintendo's recent involvement might actually end up having adverse effects on the competitive community.

The way I see it, Competitive Smash is almost like a naturally evolved ecosystem that has built and expanded itself in a way that continues to breathe life to itself, without the aid of outside influences.

Seeing Nintendo enter that ecosystem gives me visions of scenarios where companies suddenly begin to excavate these natural ecosystems for wealth, having adverse effects on the environment in the process.

Of course, this is all in my head, and probably overdramatic.

But the TL;DR of it is, is Nintendo's support necessarily vital, and if so, is there evidence so far as to how they've benefitted the Competitive Smash community?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

"The more visible PM becomes, and the closer VGBC is associated with PM, the higher the likelihood we face more direct legal action."

what else does that mean?

That any buisness that wants to grow respectfuly need stop doing illegal action's.
People are basically asking him to continue to sell movies when he wants to grow as a legit buisness.
grow up.

Any buisness is suseptable to "legal action" when your doing illegal activities.

 

[Hellrazor]

soooo then your acknowledging PM is illegal and that nintendo has been letting it live then.

...that's not what I said at all. GimR said that the legality of PM was uncertain, and you said Nintendo wasn't even mentioned. Can't really think of who else would actively seek to strike down PM all of a sudden except Nintendo who has suddenly shown uncharacteristic interest in the competitive scene. Just some deductive reasoning m8.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Quite a smart business move to not announce this before Apex.

 

[SevereScreamo]

Well, this is rather pathetic. Logical, yes, but pathetic nonetheless. Now I just eagerly await Sm4sh to die down and Nintendo to keep its grubby mod-hating hands away from competitive Smash or to change its mindset. Guess I'll start watching TL more often in the meantime.

Nintendo has not done anything yet and the people behind PM are using Nintendo's property without permission and PM is not a game it is a mod the team behind PM owns nothing all of it is Nintendo's. And Nintendo can do what ever it wants with what it owns you need to understand how modding does not change ownership so technically the PM team has to keep their "grubby hands" off Nintendo's property (I respect and love all of PM and its team but people blaming Nintendo in any of this are wrong)

 

[LOGIA666]

After much thought, debate, and proofreading of this post, I've come to the conclusion that they are in the right.

I guess you could say that VGBC is sacrificing a very large and dedicated portion of the community in order to make the community even bigger, because let's face it; from a business perspective, it's smarter to focus on Smash 4 and Melee, since those games are more popular overall.

If VGBC did the exact opposite and distanced themselves away from Nintendo, they'd be far less likely to have a lawsuit knocking at their front door. However, that'd cause a problem as well.

In response to the gentleman who said "PM has done so much for the fans, much more than Nintendo could ever do with Smash." I have to say that while you're not completely wrong, you're mostly wrong.

The Smash community (In this case, specifically the Project M community) doesn't have millions of dollars to throw around like Nintendo does. They also don't have the media pull to bring in as many newcomers as Nintendo does.

Remember the Smash 4 Invitational? Remember that HUGE crowd and the CRAPTON of viewers? I'm willing to bet that hundreds of thousands of casual gamers were introduced to competitive smash in that one day alone. WE didn't do that. Nintendo did. We couldn't pull a tenth of that much on our own. Nintendo has the money and the means to do it. We may have a dedicated community, but in the real world, money is what makes things happen.

To use a musical anology, it's liking leaving Candlelight Records, a somewhat big label that mostly contracts underground bands) for Roadrunner Records, one of the biggest labels with the biggest pull, however, your overall vision may be warped to match the interests of them.

It's obviously the smart choice if your overall goal is to make yourself bigger. However, the difference here is that adding all of these casual newcomers to the competitive scene is NOT a problem, because it's the opposite, since they are adapting to us, rather than the other way around.

I really hope that Project M can find a way to coexist with Nintendo, but if the two end up going to war, the multi BILLION dollar industry is going to win, and common sense dictates that you side with the winner.

After not only Apex, but this, Project M may very well be on it's last stock. Many of you interpret this thread as "Trading Project M, the better game for Smash 4" when that's not entirely the case. Siding with Nintendo will increase the community exponentially, and if you're willing to sacrifice this community's future for a mod of a game that could get four stocked by Nintendo at any moment, then you're a selfish person. Even more selfish than me, and I feel bad for you as a result.

In the Smash Brothers, Wife said (In reference to Melee, but this still applies) "The Halo kids were watching, and adults were watching, and girls were watching. That's the direction I wanted it to go. I wanted MORE from Melee. I didn't want it to stay as it was. I wanted it to EXPLODE into something different. I wanted it to be like Poker or Nascar, where it garners this fanbase that's alittle bigger."

The sad fact is, the quickest way in doing so is to side with Nintendo, because expecting it to be like that without their help is going to be nearly impossible.

This is in no way meant to disrespect Project M, the PMBR, or the fans of it, because I'm a Melee/PM > Smash 4/Brawl guy, and have a group based around it. However, I accept the fact that focusing more on Smash 4 is the most viable option. To top it off, MELEE is included in this, so we should be happy with that.

Hate to see Project M go, but it had to be done.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Smash 4 is one of my favorites,but it could really use some more DLC characters to make it even better, now that Nintendo's getting involved, Project M is starting to go away, I was never to big on project M (Wario bike rules, Project M just didn't know how to use it.), but it does suck that a fan mod this big and so popular is starting to get shunned, Smash 4 does have the potential to be a worthy successor,but I still say it needs more DLC characters to solidify its place. Smash 4 marks a new era, where Nintendo is getting more involved with smash bros and the competitive smash, and showing some more love, hence why I want the game to be perfect. Smash 4 is young and all ready its getting big, its the first HD smash bros, and already major players like ZeRo and M2K are competing in it (and ZeRo is winning it) times are changing, Project M may be fading,but at the least the devs should get jobs as official smash bros developers.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

"Hey guys it was cool working with you and using your content I guess, and you were there to help us from the start, but **** you we want money and fame" -VGBC right now.

We ourselves can get a primary channel for Project M up. Hopefully it'll make less people think PM is dead when it can still go strong.

 

[Wise Multishine]

That any buisness that wants to grow respectfuly need stop doing illegal action's.
People are basically asking him to continue to sell movies when he wants to grow as a legit buisness.
grow up.

Any buisness is suseptable to "legal action" when your doing illegal activities.

Good thing Project M isn't an illegal activity.

 

[MINUSTHEFIGHTER]

An unfortunate, yet expected outcome, but best of luck to you Gimr and the same to the PM community.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

...that's not what I said at all. GimR said that the legality of PM was uncertain, and you said Nintendo wasn't even mentioned. Can't really think of who else would actively seek to strike down PM all of a sudden except Nintendo who has suddenly shown uncharacteristic interest in the competitive scene. Just some deductive reasoning m8.

Nintendo has not activly Gave a c&d to pm in my knowledge i don't understand how people are thinking nintendo is trying to kill pm when thats legit the most effortless thing they can do. its basically a button press.
This is all gimr's decicion.

 

[Hellrazor]

Nintendo has not done anything yet and the people behind PM are using Nintendo's property without permission and PM is not a game it is a mod the team behind PM owns nothing all of it is Nintendo's. And Nintendo can do what ever it wants with what it owns you need to understand how modding does not change ownership so technically the PM team has to keep their "grubby hands" off Nintendo's property (I respect and love all of PM and its team but people blaming Nintendo in any of this are wrong)

It's Nintendo who's doing the intervening. The PMDT isn't claiming ownership to jack ****. PM is just a mod, an altered version of Brawl. Nothing in it belongs to them, and they'd be stupid to even act like it did. I don't know why PM of all mods in the world has to be the one targeted so fiercely. For Christ's sake, who is this mod harming? If anything, it gives people a reason to buy Brawl, or even Melee which owns most of the inspiration of mechanics.

 

[Onyxsbayne]

So much hate in here. Come on you guys, you're making our community look bad. I never liked Project M, but I'm not going to act all superior too anyone, it's just a game like any other one. However, the project is legal gray area, and in the end, this is what they had to do. Besides, it's not like they're getting rid of Melee, (which I don't really care for, but it is official). If anything, just go watch it elsewhere, stick with watching Melee, or watch some Smash 4.

 

[GaMeR N1CK]

That any buisness that wants to grow respectfuly need stop doing illegal action's.
People are basically asking him to continue to sell movies when he wants to grow as a legit buisness.
grow up.

Any buisness is suseptable to "legal action" when your doing illegal activities.

what are they doing that is illegal?streaming PM? they've been doing this for quite some time now. It's actually the reason many people know VGBC. and if VGBC wanted to grow their business then theyre doing a pretty bad job doing it. They are ruining their own reputation already making this decision, look at the other comments that are referring to unsubscribing to them.

 

[Hellrazor]

Nintendo has not activly Gave a c&d to pm in my knowledge i don't understand how people are thinking nintendo is trying to kill pm when thats legit the most effortless thing they can do. its basically a button press.
This is all gimr's decicion.

You're right. It's GimR's decision. Nintendo hasn't explicitly done anything yet. But this sounds an awful lot like GimR was given very good reason to fear streaming PM, and I don't think he'd abandon it on a whim.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Good thing Project M isn't an illegal activity.

Wrong. Read the terms and agreements for the wii agrculture why don't ya. Hacking you wii or forcing any form of unintended data into your wii. is illegal that was agreed apon by every single person who booted up there wii and set it up.
Also breaking a warrenty is also illegal as well.

 

[[OCK]LLama]

I love all the sudden legal experts that pop up and somehow ignore the Game Genie vs Nitendo case that Nintendo lost had to compensate millions for, and also do not know what fair use is.

Gotta love nintendrones- they happen to be lawyers (who somehow still do not know the basics of law) right when convenient!

 

[toro194]

bruh lol no ones reads the terms of agreement.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Good thing Project M isn't an illegal activity.

It is when you make a profit off of it, aka streaming uploading to youtube with ads.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I love all the sudden legal experts that pop up and somehow ignore the Game Genie vs Nitendo case that Nintendo lost had to compensate millions for, and also do not know what fair use is.

Gotta love nintendrones- they happen to be lawyers (who somehow still do not know the basics of law) right when convenient!

Ya nintendo lost a copywright case big deal that happens to every single company.

@ toro194 o.o......i do. >.<

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Ya nintendo lost a copywright case big deal that happens to every single company.

CopyWRIGHT?


I see what you did there