Official Veterans Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel like things could go horribly wrong with that idea. I could easily see people abusing that kind of a system and min/maxing to make characters that are far more overpowered than Brawl!Meta Knight or pre-patch!Bayonetta.

Exactly. The way Mii Fighters are done guarantees some remote balance in itself. They had proper work put into them.

I would like a sports class to show off what Miis were most known for, though.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I feel like things could go horribly wrong with that idea. I could easily see people abusing that kind of a system and min/maxing to make characters that are far more overpowered than Brawl!Meta Knight or pre-patch!Bayonetta.

I'm aware of that possibility, and my response is, "So what?" Just don't let them in tournaments or competitive online. The point would be to make a cool character you want to play as. If you design it well, tournaments might allow it.

 

[Megadoomer]

I'm aware of that possibility, and my response is, "So what?" Just don't let them in tournaments or competitive online. The point would be to make a cool character you want to play as. If you design it well, tournaments might allow it.

It would certainly put a damper on friendly local multiplayer matches. Imagine going over to a friend's house to play Smash, only for them to annihilate you with their overpowered OC. At least with Bayonetta, Cloud, or Meta Knight, you can find their weaknesses by searching online or looking up Youtube videos.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Lol, why would you let them play that character if you care about balance?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Lol, why would you let them play that character if you care about balance?

And exactly why they didn't do full customized movesets. It's impossible to balance and isn't actually that fun for many to deal with, casual or competitive-wise.

They only did special moves to keep some remote sense of balance.

It's not even the custom moves keeping them out of tourneys, it's the larger amount of factors when it comes to weight sizes along with custom moves. Custom equipment is naturally already banned. It's impossible to find a balance set and that's a big reason why they're irrelevant to the metagame too. Some Miis might work better with a specific set of special moves while being light or heavyweight. That's literally how complicated their design is.

Why would making it even more complicated than that be a good idea?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Why do people download Goku and Vegeta on their Brawl? Some people like playing as certain characters regardless of balance. Is it really that hard to tell your friend not to play their broken character this round?

 

[Quillion]

Al-kīmiyā' : Your proposal is the farthest thing away from feasible. Sounds cool of course, but not practical by any means.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Al-kīmiyā' : Your proposal is the farthest thing away from feasible. Sounds cool of course, but not practical by any means.

Why?

 

[Luminario]

After finally getting around to finishing off BotW I'd say Zelda's Sealing Power would translate over to Smash wonderfully as a trap based move, either as a new down B or as a secondary effect to down smash like I've seen Bowserlick suggest. It would also compliment her current abilities and playstyle so not much would need to change, as she could safely throw out Din's Fire without the threat of being rushed down immediately and punish opponents who attempt to get around the trap unsafely. It could be implemented by Zelda laying a rotating Triforce on the ground that activates when stepped on, stunning the opponent, and be balanced by doing little damage, disappearing if Zelda is hit, or giving the trap a cooldown.

 

[Uffe]

Ice Climbers could come back. If they do return, then I think what they do with Rosalina & Luma, they should do with Popo & Nana. If Nana dies, she can respawn at a certain duration, that way Popo isn't left to die from simply being thrown off the stage and putting him in a bad position.

 

[ryuu seika]

Because Popo can clearly summon a new Nana as easily as Rosalina can one of the countless baby stars under her care.

 

[RouffWestie]

Better alternate costumes for Pac-Man would be nice to see. I was a bit disappointed that they didn't go for the obvious references and even left out Mrs. Pac-Man entirely. Come to think of it, my biggest concern with veterans in general is that they get more referential palette swaps. Villager's classic hat, Construction Mario, Mr.L, Pikachu's Mystery Dungeon scarf, Boxing Glove DK, and Dry Bowser should be added at least.

 

[PSIguy89]

Popular opinion or not, I would rather see the Miis scrapped as playable, they work perfectly as the polygon team replacement! Also I agree with those that want custom moves gone. I hated trying to hunt them all down to find out there was so little different *most* of the time. Of course I can also admit that it could have been included in a far better way but oh well. Also hiiiiii to all those still around since pre SSBB4 days!!!

 

[MetroLSD]

How would you guys feel about Pikachu, Lucario, Mewtwo and Char received a moveset overhaul making their normals similar to their normals from Pokken?

 

[Crystanium]

Because Popo can clearly summon a new Nana as easily as Rosalina can one of the countless baby stars under her care.

Why not? It's not like Super Smash Bros. is completely true to canon.

Anyway, I know Samus is a character who is currently present in Super Smash Bros. and has been since day one. Still, I think it would be interesting to make changes to character movesets as new games from a series developed. Link is an example of a character whose side special changed from an ordinary boomerang to a gale boomerang. This might have been done to avoid making Link and Toon Link too similar. Samus' d-tilt in the original Super Smash Bros. was a sweep kick, not a flamethrower. Donkey Kong's f-smash used to be a backhand, not two hands trying to crush his opponent. Captain Falcon's f-smash was a roundhouse kick, not an elbow to the face. I have a few ideas for Samus.


In Metroid: Samus Returns (MSR), Samus receives Aeion abilities. These include scan pulse, lightning armor, beam burst, and phase drift. I could see Samus having an Aeion gauge that she could activate. The thing about it is that unlike in MSR where Samus can use all four abilities at once, it'd probably be very limited here for both balance and because of the limited button inputs. Here's how I could see the four Aeion abilities working.

Scan Pulse: In MSR, scan pulse simply worked like a power bomb without the destruction. It would reveal unchecked areas on the map and expose hidden, breakable blocks on ceilings, walls, and floors. These objects would flash temporarily. This could transition in Super Smash Bros. by making the opponent's shield reduce in health, since this would be understood as Samus finding a weak point on the opponent. Alternatively, if that is an issue, the opponent could receive a bit more damage than usual.

Lightning Armor: In MSR, lightning armor protects Samus from many attacks. This doesn't include super-heated rooms or magma, probably to avoid the player from sequence breaking. After all, a flame is 1,000 °C. Magma can be as cool as 600 °C. So, either the magma is much hotter, or the developers didn't want the player to sequence break. I could see lightning armor working like Shulk's Monado Art Shield without the reduction of movement or attack damage.

Beam Burst: Beam burst would take Samus' ability from charging her charge shot, and instead make her neutral special behave much like Mii Gunner's forward smash. Just like in MSR, this Aeion ability would cause more damage and have a higher rate of fire.

Phase Drift: This Aeion ability would work like Bayonetta's witch time. That doesn't sound fun, but Samus isn't like Bayonetta, so she wouldn't be able to carry her opponent off to the ceiling. During this time, Samus could deal significant damage to her opponent. There's really not much else to be said about this ability.

That said, how would all of this work? Only one Aeion ability would be able to be used at a time. Once the Aeion gauge is activated, it remains activated until the gauge is gone. Furthermore, the gauge could only be activated once it's full. (In MSR, the gauge doesn't need to be full. It just needs Aeion energy to be usable. It can also be activated and deactivated whenever the player chooses.) The d-pad would be the method of activating the Aeion gauge. This is because the d-pad has been used in past and has been character-specific. Using the d-pad in Super Smash Bros. Brawl allowed Samus to become Zero Suit Samus, for example.

 

[Uffe]

Because Popo can clearly summon a new Nana as easily as Rosalina can one of the countless baby stars under her care.

I don't know why you have to be rude about it. Fine then. Nana should just fall out of a new halo like any other character under a certain time limit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing is? Ice Climbers are not like Rosalina & Luma. There's tons of Lumas, so summoning a new one is logical. There's one Nana, so it's one per stock as normal. It makes sense as is. If anything, they do need more balancing, so losing Nana doesn't nearly make Popo useless. I mean, he does need a weakness for balance purposes, but having a useless Up B is kind of silly. Now making it so it gets less height than normal, or like half the height possible could easily make it better. With chain grabbing gone, a bit of reworking is a good idea.

 

[NintenRob]

If they return, they'd likely get a new up b regardless. All grapple recoverys were removed in Smash 4.


Maybe they should use the condor since they use for their battle entrance

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If they return, they'd likely get a new up b regardless. All grapple recoverys were removed in Smash 4.


Maybe they should use the condor since they use for their battle entrance

No, it was straight Tether Recovery Up B's. Ice Climbers does not have one of those in the same way as others. It's a Bungee Jump instead(more akin to what King Dedede's is), and while it has Tether properties, it's not all it has unlike Olimar, Ivysaur, and Zero Suit Samus(and thus, their Up B's are beyond useless if they don't hit that ledge. Ice Climbers are not). That said, that idea actually sounds really good for balance reasons anyway.

Fixed, since I forgot it had extra tether properties(but still isn't a pure tether recovery).

 

[NintenRob]

No, it was Tether Recovery Up B's. Ice Climbers does not have one of those. It's a Bungee Jump instead(more akin to what King Dedede's is). That said, that idea actually sounds really good for balance reasons anyway.

I meant Tether woops

And while functionally different to most tether recoveries in that it actually boosted you in the air, I think it technically was a tether was recovery.

Not that matters though

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I meant Tether woops

And while functionally different to most tether recoveries in that it actually boosted you in the air, I think it technically was a tether was recovery.

Not that matters though

See the fixed post. It's both, but still perfectly usable without the tether properties. It's the only Up B that could ignore changes without making it useless. That said, I do like the idea of a Pteradactyl too.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Why assume tether recoveries won't be in Smash Switch?

 

[Luminario]

Why not? It's not like Super Smash Bros. is completely true to canon.

Anyway, I know Samus is a character who is currently present in Super Smash Bros. and has been since day one. Still, I think it would be interesting to make changes to character movesets as new games from a series developed. Link is an example of a character whose side special changed from an ordinary boomerang to a gale boomerang. This might have been done to avoid making Link and Toon Link too similar. Samus' d-tilt in the original Super Smash Bros. was a sweep kick, not a flamethrower. Donkey Kong's f-smash used to be a backhand, not two hands trying to crush his opponent. Captain Falcon's f-smash was a roundhouse kick, not an elbow to the face. I have a few ideas for Samus.


In Metroid: Samus Returns (MSR), Samus receives Aeion abilities. These include scan pulse, lightning armor, beam burst, and phase drift. I could see Samus having an Aeion gauge that she could activate. The thing about it is that unlike in MSR where Samus can use all four abilities at once, it'd probably be very limited here for both balance and because of the limited button inputs. Here's how I could see the four Aeion abilities working.

Scan Pulse: In MSR, scan pulse simply worked like a power bomb without the destruction. It would reveal unchecked areas on the map and expose hidden, breakable blocks on ceilings, walls, and floors. These objects would flash temporarily. This could transition in Super Smash Bros. by making the opponent's shield reduce in health, since this would be understood as Samus finding a weak point on the opponent. Alternatively, if that is an issue, the opponent could receive a bit more damage than usual.

Lightning Armor: In MSR, lightning armor protects Samus from many attacks. This doesn't include super-heated rooms or magma, probably to avoid the player from sequence breaking. After all, a flame is 1,000 °C. Magma can be as cool as 600 °C. So, either the magma is much hotter, or the developers didn't want the player to sequence break. I could see lightning armor working like Shulk's Monado Art Shield without the reduction of movement or attack damage.

Beam Burst: Beam burst would take Samus' ability from charging her charge shot, and instead make her neutral special behave much like Mii Gunner's forward smash. Just like in MSR, this Aeion ability would cause more damage and have a higher rate of fire.

Phase Drift: This Aeion ability would work like Bayonetta's witch time. That doesn't sound fun, but Samus isn't like Bayonetta, so she wouldn't be able to carry her opponent off to the ceiling. During this time, Samus could deal significant damage to her opponent. There's really not much else to be said about this ability.

That said, how would all of this work? Only one Aeion ability would be able to be used at a time. Once the Aeion gauge is activated, it remains activated until the gauge is gone. Furthermore, the gauge could only be activated once it's full. (In MSR, the gauge doesn't need to be full. It just needs Aeion energy to be usable. It can also be activated and deactivated whenever the player chooses.) The d-pad would be the method of activating the Aeion gauge. This is because the d-pad has been used in past and has been character-specific. Using the d-pad in Super Smash Bros. Brawl allowed Samus to become Zero Suit Samus, for example.

They're good ideas, but I feel they'll be somewhat inefficient at improving Samus' playstyle and I don't think they'd take out her taunts for it. Phase Drift especially sounds pretty OP. Scan Pulse sounds like a good Down B custom though, and Beam Burst I can see replacing Zero Laser either doing exactly the same thing it does now or how it acts in MSR. What they need to do first is improve on a very outdated 64 moveset and allow her to truly shine.

 

[Crystanium]

They're good ideas, but I feel they'll be somewhat inefficient at improving Samus' playstyle and I don't think they'd take out her taunts for it. Phase Drift especially sounds pretty OP. Scan Pulse sounds like a good Down B custom though, and Beam Burst I can see replacing Zero Laser either doing exactly the same thing it does now or how it acts in MSR. What they need to do first is improve on a very outdated 64 moveset and allow her to truly shine.

I couldn't think of any other option than d-pad because giving a particular button other than the d-pad would give Samus something character-specific. To put it another way, suppose of the A, B, X, Y buttons, X was used for jumping, A was used for standard attacks, and B was used for specials. Would Samus be the only one to have a Y button that does something else, while everyone's Y button is used also for jumping? Even then, Samus' specials are accurate to canon, so I don't expect those to be overhauled. If these Aeion abilities couldn't be used, then I'd expect tilts and smashes to be altered.

I've already expressed by displeasure with Samus u-tilt. It's a kill move, but any opponent on the ground techs without having to try. Its hitbox is active much later, and it has a FAF of 40 frames. I think it could be replaced with melee counter from MSR and possibly have a reflective property. I proposed the idea elsewhere with the hitbox being active on frame 9, rather than u-tilts original frame 15. I could see u-smash being changed as well. It already doesn't connect very well against short characters, and sometimes characters caught in the attack fall out of it. I could see beam burst replacing this and rotating in a 180 degree angle.

As for the other Aeion abilities, I'm not sure where they'd be used if at all.

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't know why you have to be rude about it. Fine then. Nana should just fall out of a new halo like any other character under a certain time limit.

I'm sorry, it's just that treating Nana as a throwaway character bothered me more than I expected and I reacted in the most to the point way I could.

Now, regarding the talk of a new Up B, I have a suggestion that takes things a step further:

For the duo's Down B, they face back to back to cover more area and for the Side B they get a longer, two person spin.
Why not extend that further? Really commit to the cooperation theme with more of these joint attacks?

For UpB, this would mean changing the solo version of the move from an increadibly small jump to an increadibly small jump with a tether. This works because Popo essentially tethers Nana in the duo version anyway so that would be more or less unchanged.

Yet NeutralB goes the opposite route and acts as is when solo. If they use it in conjunction, however, they hit a single Icy out instead of two blocks.

And then, why not let hatted Kirbys on the same team act as a Nana for this purpose?

 

[AlphaSSB]

Excited to hear that Smash is coming to Switch. Inklings confirmed, so maybe we'll get back a veteran as well. Ice Climbers or Wolf, maybe?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Excited to hear that Smash is coming to Switch. Inklings confirmed, so maybe we'll get back a veteran as well. Ice Climbers or Wolf, maybe?

Both of them and Crash will make a dream come true

 

[DrRiceBoy]

My god that trailer was HYPE. Getting flashbacks to pre-Smash 4. So so excited! Felt like such a long time ago. I was in middle school at the time but now I'm almost done with high school.

Anyways-- I really hope Mewtwo and Lucas return. Marth and Ike are a given so I'm not worried about them (I think there was a Marth silhouette in the trailer too) but I really hope Mewtwo/Lucas make it in. They're really popular DLC characters so they might stay, but they were removed at one point so who knows. Anything can happen. Having Wolf back would be dope too. Also I wonder about the fate (ha!) of the FE characters. Marth, Ike, and Robin seem like givens; but Corrin, Roy, and Lucina seem like mixed bags. Overall I hope all of the veterans return but I'm not counting on that.

Smash speculation gets me so excited. I have this tingly feeling inside of me.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Mario will have Cappy in his moveset 100%. Probably replacing his cape.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Mario will have Cappy in his moveset 100%. Probably replacing his cape.

People said this about the Galaxy Spin.

I'm not convinced.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I think Cappy will be in the game in some capacity. Either a custom move or a new item, perhaps? Otherwise, a trophy or background entity at the very least.

 

[SmashMaster02]

ICE CLIMBERS FTW!!! I'd like my other mains to return as well... :3

64
Melee
Brawl
Wii U

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

It’s been a long time since I’ve been to SmashBoards. The announcement definitely caught me off guard and I’m very excited to hear of a potentially new installment of the Smash franchise.

With talk of a new game, it made me worried about characters that might get cut. This might be me being paranoid but I feel my Wii U main, Mewtwo might be on the block. How high are the chances of him being cut from this new game?

 

[DakotaBonez]

I vastly wanted the Miis. I didn't expect the specific iteration, or for them to be a Smash-specific character, but I'm happy with it.

Man I'm still butthurt that I never got to use my Mii Gunner at a tourney, or For Glory for that matter.
From what I've seen on the majority of Switch accounts, users still like having Miis as their avatar.
Miis can still be integrated into games, which we have seen in Mario Kart on the Switch.
There is no hardware or software limitation preventing their inclusion, so I'm all for it.

This might be me being paranoid but I feel my Wii U main, Mewtwo might be on the block. How high are the chances of him being cut from this new game?

I love the way he plays in Smash4, and I Iove playing villain characters.
I wasn't a fan of Mewtwo's playstyle in Melee but he just felt so damn GOOD to play in Sm4sh.
Maybe incorporate a couple of those Pokken style moves into his moveset for Sma5h.

I feel like Mewtwo has become too iconic of a Smash character at this point,
if anything, I think Lucario might unfortunately get the cut.

 

[Banjodorf]

Ice Climbers feel like they’re in a good place since we don’t have the 3DS dragging us down anymore. I consider them pretty much there, though nothing is set in stone until we know what Sakurai wants to do with the roster obviously. Wolf maybe, but then, we never got a real reason Wolf didn’t make it into Smash 4 either.

As much as I want Snake back, and I *really* want Snake back, I just don’t see it.

 

[Cyn]

Ice Climbers feel like they’re in a good place since we don’t have the 3DS dragging us down anymore. I consider them pretty much there, though nothing is set in stone until we know what Sakurai wants to do with the roster obviously. Wolf maybe, but then, we never got a real reason Wolf didn’t make it into Smash 4 either.

As much as I want Snake back, and I *really* want Snake back, I just don’t see it.

Ice Climbers are a shoo in as far as I am concerned. They got the fan backing and without the 3ds limitations holding back their inclusion, it is a certainty as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hokori]

For starters, I just want to not be a piece of ****, the return of , and make great again.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

I'm not looking for too much here. Basically, I just want four characters; Mewtwo, Roy, Corrin, and Wolf. Those four, and I'm 110% gold.

 

[FunAtParties]

Someone (not me Im so lazy) needs to make a Wario and Ganondorf thread over here.

 

[Deleted member]

I’d love it if Cappy got in as a move or item Super Mario Odyssey is my favourite video game and Cappy became one of my favourite characters in the Super Mario serious cause of his quite but helpful nature. So would enjoy seeing him. Also Not big into Legend of Zelda but after seeing some of Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild

I appreciate the series beyond belief. So can’t wait to try out Link always connected with him as a main so he’ll be great!