Official Veterans Discussion

[DNeon]

As far as custom moves go, wouldn't it be much more fun to just stick a set of custom moves on a similar sized trophy? Or on an alternate costume of that character, like a previous generation of them or something?

Take Captain Falcon's alternate moves, stick them on a Black Shadow costume, and that way those alternate moves can be part of a set that can be balanced without outside factors.Take Shiek alternates and put them in a Yiga clan member. Links on his older styles.They could pretty much be like Pit and Dark Pit, or Mario and Doc Mario.

Basically I'm saying that custom moves are so much harder to balance when each one needs to be balanced around their potential with the rest, but rather than scrap the idea of alternate playstyles why not embrace it and attach sets of the custom moves to visual alternates as well?

 

[magiciandude]

Just going to quote a post I made earlier regarding third party characters who are veterans:

and are owned by Sega who always seems to have a great relationship with Nintendo since they became third party. Both of the recent Sonic games came out for the Switch while Bayoneta 1 + 2 was released for the NS while Bayonetta 3 is being released for the NS exclusively. Plus Bayonetta won the Smash Ballot.

& : The former has a new game coming out for the Switch along with a compilation of MM games coming for the NS as well. The latter appeared in Ultra SF II which I heard sold really well on the NS and there's an upcoming SF collection coming out for the NS as well. Plus Capcom is still promoting SF 5.

: There's a Pac-Man championship game coming out for the Switch and he is Miyamoto's favorite character and was requested to appear in Brawl by Miyamoto. I don't know if Namco being the developer for Smash 5 or not will affect his chances, but I can't say for sure.

: Many like to claim that he's the Snake of SSB4, but the circumstances couldn't be any more different for the two characters. For one, Cloud got in because Sakurai got a lot of requests to include a FF character and Cloud was the most requested one from the series. He wasn't personally requested by an acquaintance like Snake was. Now one thing I do agree with what could hinder his chances is how stingy Square can be. On the other hand, the FFVII remake is still being developed and they are okay with Noctis being the new Tekken game. Plus we have Octopath Traveler being developed for the Switch by Square Enix. I guess it ultimately depends on if Square was satisfied with how Cloud performed in Smash 4. EDIT: Apparently, all Sakurai had to was discuss Nomura about the possibility of Cloud being in Smash 4 and Nomura gave the green light. Source

: Woo boy, possibly the most controversial 3rd party character. As most may know, there was bad blood between Kojima and Konami during Smash 4's development. Now while Kojima stated he didn't find it likely Snake would be in Smash 4, he also hoped Sakurai would include Snake anyway. With the two being best buddies, it would seem logical to put Snake back especially after how well-received he was in Brawl. Yet for reasons we may never know, it didn't happen. I speculate that Konami was being a total *** to the point they wouldn't even give Kojima the satisfaction of putting Snake back in Smash 4. After all, they didn't let him accept his award at the 2015 Game Awards without being sued. Konami's business model at the time was pure **** and they only seemed to care about pachinko machines more than quality games. Lately though, Konami seems to be slowly turning that bad reputation around. Bomberman R was released for the Switch with somewhat positive reviews and has been getting free DLC content since its release. Hopefully Nintendo and Konami can work things out to bring back Snake and maybe another Konami character. *fingers crossed*

 

[majorasmaskfan]

Custom moves should be handles like the alt play styles in mortal combat x.

 

[Ura]

Assuming all the vets return, I want YLink with a semi revamped moveset to return as well as Snake.

Ideally I would want Ganondork to have a faithful moveset to the LoZ games but IDK if that will ever happen.

 

[Deleted member]

Love to see Ice Climbers and Wolf return wanted back for a while. Now that Inklings are in and maybe just maybe King K. Rool gets added hope they'd be added too.

 

[Drclaw411]

Sonic and Mewtwo...


Baby come back!

 

[Deleted member]

Hopefully Mega Man and Diddy Kong as well. The latter will of course.

 

[DNeon]

Ideally I would want Ganondork to have a faithful moveset to the LoZ games but IDK if that will ever happen.

To tie in with my comment just before, it could be possible to have Ganondorf be more Ganon-y if his current moveset was given to Black Shadow. Classic fans still have their moveset and Ganon gets a big update that he kinda deserves

 

[Ura]

To tie in with my comment just before, it could be possible to have Ganondorf be more Ganon-y if his current moveset was given to Black Shadow. Classic fans still have their moveset and Ganon gets a big update that he kinda deserves

That's the idea everyone pitches but it usually never happens.

I would want a SSB Crusade Ganon that utilizes swordplay and dark magic but also has some physical moves here and there.

 

[PF9]

I think that if the Sonic movie had moved forward under Sony it would have ended his chances of returning, given Nintendo and Sony's rivalry. Because it didn't it's safe to say he will return.

 

[Deleted member]

Sonic should return I'm sure he will.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

To tie in with my comment just before, it could be possible to have Ganondorf be more Ganon-y if his current moveset was given to Black Shadow. Classic fans still have their moveset and Ganon gets a big update that he kinda deserves

I wouldn't count on Black Shadow unless F-Zero suddenly becomes relevant again.
Ganondorf's moveset has grown on me over the years. It's savage and brutal. It suits him, even if it isn't ideal.

 

[DJ3DS]

Keep Falcondorf and give us Pig Ganon.

 

[Megadoomer]

I feel like even something as small as changing Ganondorf's B move to Warlock Blade (or whatever the custom move where he uses his sword is called) would make a big difference for not having him feel like a Falcon clone.

 

[N3ON]

I'm just wondering what his aesthetic will be like should the rest of the cast implement their BotW designs (even Sheik has something to work with). And if the other members of the series do experience some degree of moveset revision, will that extend to Ganondorf? Probably not, cuz he'll never catch a break... but it's nice to hope.

 

[Ura]

What do you guys think of Link/Zelda using their BoTW attires and Sheik/Ganondorf using their HW ones?

 

[Luminario]

What do you guys think of Link/Zelda using their BoTW attires and Sheik/Ganondorf using their HW ones?

ehhhhhh I don't see them splitting up the designs of those 4, especially not with the designs from a spin-off when there's outfits in BotW that can fit everyone easily. If anything Sheik and Ganny would probably just keep the TP designs.

 

[Baskerville]

I'm just wondering what his aesthetic will be like should the rest of the cast implement their BotW designs (even Sheik has something to work with). And if the other members of the series do experience some degree of moveset revision, will that extend to Ganondorf? Probably not, cuz he'll never catch a break... but it's nice to hope.

Design wise they could give him a design that's BOTW inspired, though personally I'd take his Hyrule Warriors look. For moves, aside from the projectile he uses in OoT and TP, I'd love to see him summon limbs from his beast form for smash attacks.

What do you guys think of Link/Zelda using their BoTW attires and Sheik/Ganondorf using their HW ones?

I'll take it only because of Ganondorf. Seriously his Hyrule Warriors design is his best yet.

 

[Quillion]

Ganondorf is goddamn fine the way he is. If Mario doesn't need a hammer, and Ness can only use his bat for one move, Ganondorf is fine just punching.

Keep in mind that I can still see the value in him being altered, but I'm not as insane about it as I once was.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Which characters where teased in the reveal trailer you guys think? There where definitely a few veteran fighters standing in the shadows facing the Inklings in that trailer, I just realised. I can make up at least Bowser, Donkey Kong and either Kirby or Jigglypuff, but am not sure about the rest.

 

[Megadoomer]

Samus's shoulders are pretty prominent, and Yoshi and Pit appear to be on the far left, past DK. (Yoshi has a pretty recognizable silhouette, and you can see the glint of Pit's blade in addition to his wings)

Pikachu looks to be in the center, to the left of Samus (you can see his ears), but beyond that, it's really tough to be sure. (some of the shorter characters could be Ness, Jigglypuff, or Kirby, and the taller humanoids could be anyone from Marth to Captain Falcon to Sheik)

 

[GoldTrainRider]

I want Ice climbers 100% They were possible in Smash Wii U, but cut because of the 3DS technical limitations. They are possible and they need to be added. I also would like snake back.

 

[Deleted member]

New attires from them yeah that I’m behind!

 

[N3ON]

Design wise they could give him a design that's BOTW inspired, though personally I'd take his Hyrule Warriors look. For moves, aside from the projectile he uses in OoT and TP, I'd love to see him summon limbs from his beast form for smash attacks.

I'll take it only because of Ganondorf. Seriously his Hyrule Warriors design is his best yet.

I'd be elated yet very surprised if they took anything from a spin-off, even though I really dig the depiction of a lot of the characters in HW.

And even that gif goes to show how Ganondorf could be, imo, so much more interesting in Smash than he seems destined to stay.

 

[Uffe]

With the flaming Smash logo, I don't know if Zelda was present. I'm pretty sure they'll keep Zelda and Ganondorf for sure. Hopefully Zelda will be in her BotW outfit. And if they don't keep the TP Ganondorf, I imagine them going back to the OoT Ganondorf seeing how Phantom Ganon is an attire in BotW.

 

[Baskerville]

I'd be elated yet very surprised if they took anything from a spin-off, even though I really dig the depiction of a lot of the characters in HW.

And even that gif goes to show how Ganondorf could be, imo, so much more interesting in Smash than he seems destined to stay.

Koei really did a lot of justice to Ganondorf and just cranked it up to 10 with his moveset, if Smash Ganondorf had even a third of what his HW version is packing then I wouldn't ask for any other Zelda character.

Its disappointing to me seeing a veteran like Ganondorf, that has a lot of potential with all the cool stuff he does in his games still being what he is today.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

As long as Falcon comes back I don't think I'll be too upset with anything else. Hoping his aerial mobility goes up a bit and his knee gets a 3-4 frame sweet-spot.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd be elated yet very surprised if they took anything from a spin-off, even though I really dig the depiction of a lot of the characters in HW.

And even that gif goes to show how Ganondorf could be, imo, so much more interesting in Smash than he seems destined to stay.

Well, I still don't think Hyrule Warriors should be overlooked. Much like Fire Emblem Warriors. Yeah it's already established Link is in his BOTW attire, but I still think it's the very best game to draw new moveset potential from for Ganondorf. As well as Sheik, and Impa as a newcomer. They can also look to FEW for inspiration for say, Lyn who also was one of the most popular Fire Emblem characters ever in her own regard.

There's no BOTW Ganondorf, so they'd have to use the next best thing. Which would be Hyrule Warriors. I really hope this can happen, cause there's so many 3rd party characters already in, plus Namco-Bandai is probably working on this again, so I don't see how this couldn't be a possibility.

 

[The Original Robot boy]

Just going to quote a post I made earlier regarding third party characters who are veterans:

Aslong as the super fighting robot comes back to smash 5 i couldn't care less for the rest for the returning roster.

 

[GoldTrainRider]

People would go wild if they had all the characters, but they may have to un-clone some of them.

 

[Splotim]

I hope that some of smash 4's custom moves come back, but as replacements for the current specials instead of unlockables. Melee and 64 characters probably wouldn't get changed, but it could really shake up the brawl and sm4sh characters. At the very least they could use them to differentiate clones.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

as for veterns from smash 4 to return to this i have a prediction already but its a oppion ofcoarse dlc is a safety net for each if not non dlc

SAFE:
these twelve are forbidden to leave smash series period
no need to worry about these guys either (make mewtwo non dlc this time)
for brawl these guys are not leaving either
now for currents i think are safe
- yea bowesr jr was a needed inclusion and so popular i don't think we have to worry about him nor the other koopalings
- duck hunt is up there on most popular nes games and was the first ever trio in smash they aren't going anyway
- do i even need to explain?
-well hes not completely safe but i wouldn't be too shocked if capcom let them put him in again basicly it really all depends if capcom helps out again EDIT: he's definitely safe i just found out a mega man 11 is being made for the switch so he will promote for that
- if namco helps again hes 100% safe but even if they weren't still a decent chance because the director of pac-man wanted him in and they attempted back on brawl and heres the biggest reason megaman is involved of this to and its smash 4 was the worlds first game with in one game the 4 most popular video characters in the world
- clearly shes going to make it back since sakurai is once again the director and he did kid icarus as a matter of fact i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if viridi ended up as a newcomer in smash switch
-no way shes leaving believe me
- not to sure to be honest but im sure he will be fine since this was a high request
- he should be fine sakurai tried before in brawl
-im skeptical but she won the ballot and a heard she is getting a game on the switch so she will probably make it again
resurrections
- i'm pretty sure wolf will resurrect just like mewtwo and roy did in smash 4
- if there no portable version this time (3ds) they are back by default)
- i'm a little skeptical but however he was attempted in brawl so melee and higher he was in so should make it
- mewtwo fine no questions most popular legendary pokemon and was actually suppose to be part of the original 12 which means he was mean't for smash 64
(roy amd mewtwo got special mentions since they failed to make it into brawl but i think they are fine in this plus dlc is now a safety net for both of them)

NOT COMPLETELY SAFE
the iffy level
- im actually sure he will be in but the other part is there hasn't been a punch out game in a while and no so popular in japan
- im 50/50 on her and thats because wii fit is not as relevant as it uset be then again she fits the category as wtf characters and those characters end up never leaving
-hes definately not as safe as megaman and pac-man but however cloud was on most wanted characters catergory its just 50/50 for me
- part of me saids he got lucky since sakurai sticks with one 3rd party character from a company but chance he could survive
/ i think robin will be fine but hard to debate due to there was way too many fire emblem characters in smash 4

PROPABLY GOING TO GET THE BOOT
- your doomed you 3 were only fillers in smash 4 from articles
- very simple not as popular as greninja uset to be and might be replaced by a pokemon from gen VII probably a ultra beast/Necrozma or a starter or maybe even zygrade
- way to many fire emblems last time this was one of youngest characters in the history of smash there was more negative than hype for his reveal EDIT: as a matter of fact he might just be replaced by another brand new fire emblem character

 

[The Original Robot boy]

as for veterns from smash 4 to return to this i have a prediction already but its a oppion ofcoarse dlc is a safety net for each if not non dlc

SAFE:
these twelve are forbidden to leave smash series period
no need to worry about these guys either (make mewtwo non dlc this time)
for brawl these guys are not leaving either
now for currents i think are safe
- yea bowesr jr was a needed inclusion and so popular i don't think we have to worry about him nor the other koopalings
- duck hunt is up there on most popular nes games and was the first ever trio in smash they aren't going anyway
- do i even need to explain?
-well hes not completely safe but i wouldn't be too shocked if capcom let them put him in again basicly it really all depends if capcom helps out again
- if namco helps again hes 100% safe but even if they weren't still a decent chance because the direct of pac-man wanted him in and they attempted back on brawl and heres the biggest reason megaman is involved of this to and its smash 4 was the worlds first game with in one game the 4 most popular video characters in the world
- clearly shes going to make it back since sakurai is once again the director and he did kid icarus as a matter of fact i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if viridi ended up as a newcomer in smash switch
-no way shes leaving believe me
- not to sure to be honest but im sure he will be fine since this was a high request
- he should be fine sakurai tried before in brawl
-im skeptical but she won the ballot and a heard she is getting a game on the switch so she will probably make it again
resurrections
- i'm pretty sure wolf will resurrect just like mewtwo and roy did in smash 4
- if there no portable version this time (3ds) they are back by default)
- i'm a little skeptical but however he was attempted in brawl so melee and higher he was in so should make it
- mewtwo fine no questions most popular legendary pokemon and was actually suppose to be part of the original 12 which means he was mean't for smash 64
(roy amd mewtwo got special mentions since they failed to make it into brawl but i think they are fine in this plus dlc is now a safety net for both of them)

NOT COMPLETELY SAFE
the iffy level
- im actually sure he will be in but the other part is there hasn't been a punch out game in a while and no so popular in japan
- im 50/50 on her and thats because wii fit is not as relevant as it uset be then again she fits the category as wtf characters and those characters end up never leaving
-hes definately not as safe as megaman and pac-man but however cloud was on most wanted characters catergory its just 50/50 for me
- part of me saids he got lucky since sakurai sticks with one 3rd party character from a company but chance he could survive
/ i think robin will be fine but hard to debate due to there was way too many fire emblem characters in smash 4

PROPABLY GOING TO GET THE BOOT
- your doomed you 3 were only fillers in smash 4 from articles
- very simple not as popular as greninja uset to be and might be replaced by a pokemon from gen VII probably a ultra beast/Necrozma or a starter or maybe even zygrade
- way to many fire emblems last time this was one of youngest characters in the history of smash there was more negative than hype for his reveal

Now I do see potential to bring back Megaman and I hope they do since he was the reason I bought smash 4 in the first place, I believe Megaman , Sonic , Mario, and Pac-man make such a big impact especially when the first smash 4 trailer was released seeing them again on the latest smash game would only make things better for new people who just recently got into the characters games or people who still enjoy them today.

 

[DJ3DS]

- very simple not as popular as greninja uset to be and might be replaced by a pokemon from gen VII probably a ultra beast/Necrozma or a starter or maybe even zygrade

You are massively downplaying Greninja here. He's one of the most popular Pokémon full stop.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

I don’t think Greninja is going away that easily. He might not be very popular in the west but his popularity is high in Japan. A new Pokémon from gen VII is very likely to make the roster but will not replace Greninja.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

You are massively downplaying Greninja here. He's one of the most popular Pokémon full stop.

I don’t think Greninja is going away that easily. He might not be very popular in the west but his popularity is high in Japan. A new Pokémon from gen VII is very likely to make the roster but will not replace Greninja.

Actually not that you that you mention it

It accured to me deciueye would be a grass type and add Charizard and greening a that's rounds out a starter of each type

 

[Fane]

Hmm... Here's my thoughts(From what Smash game they were introduced in. Top = 64, Bottom = 4):

Will Return:





Likely To Return:




Might Not Return:



Won't Return:



Here's my reasoning for Likely to Return > Won't Return.
-Mewtwo/Lucas (Very popular characters, brought back to Smash 4 via DLC, however, considering Mewtwo missed release on two titles and Lucas on one, I wouldn't say they're exactly 100% returning. However, the fact they were the first two characters to come in as DLC makes me believe they were intended to be in the release roster of Smash 4 but just didn't make the cut.)
-Wolf (Many players were upset to see him not return through DLC in Smash 4, and Starfox is lacking rep due to it's lacking appearances lately, so bringing Wolf back into the fold would not only please players, but also give Starfox the rep it deserves, however missing an appearance in Smash has often resulted them missing out in the following game, so I'm not putting money on him being back 100%)
-Ike/Lucario (Many people assumed they'd be dropped in Smash 4, and I think people are still assuming that they'll be dropped in this next game, especially since Ike's relevancy is long gone. I disagree and think they'll likely come back though.)
-Little Mac (Basically same reasoning as Ike. He is no longer very relevant, so I won't be shocked if he doesn't come back, but considering his popularity, I believe he will return.)
-Bayonetta (Winner of the Smash Poll, I doubt she's going anywhere especially since Sega and Nintendo have a very good relationship, however it is possible she was just a little gift to the community in thanks of playing and supporting the franchise for so long, so I wouldn't say she's 100% safe.)
-Greninja/Corrin (Many people assume these two were a one time thing and have lost relevancy and are due to either be replaced by a new Pokemon/Fire Emblem character, but they have largely unique movesets and they are quite popular as well, so I don't think they'll get cut, but it's still possible.)

-Roy (This MAY come as a shock to many, but I don't believe Roy has good chances at returning compared to others. He is VERY popular, which is likely the sole reason he was brought back as DLC in 4, but he's a semi-clone character and semi-clones/clones are usually the characters that end up getting cut. He's also been cut once before and didn't return until somewhat later into Smash 4's life. Plus, I don't believe we'll see the whole cast of Fire Emblem heroes come back from 4, and I think they'd like to prioritize the unique characters first.)
-Wii Fit Trainer (Not very popular, Wii Fit is also pretty niche and won't see a return to Switch unless they change the name to 'Switch Fit'. I doubt many people will get upset to see this character get cut, but then again Sakurai might just keep her in this iteration simply because of how well Wii Fit sold initially.)
-Dark Pit/Lucina/Dr. Mario (Clones. That's all there is to it. The most likely ones to return imo are Lucina and Dark Pit, but only because Lucina is very popular and Dark Pit has a lot of potential to NOT be a clone. Otherwise I can see them getting dropped altogether or Lucina/Dark Pit becoming alts.)
-Cloud/Ryu (I feel like these two third party characters were little treats for people who wanted to get DLC in Smash 4. I feel like Ryu has a better chance at returning than Cloud does, but I don't think either of them will return unfortunately.)

-Pichu/Young Link (Pichu was a joke. Toon Link replaced Young Link.)
-Snake (One word. Konami.)
-Ivysaur/Squirtle/Pokemon Trainer (Charizard was chosen over them, and I don't think that's changing anytime soon.)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Palutena will definitely need to be fixed up for the next Smash Bros. installment, assuming that she comes back (which should be pretty likely). For starters, make her attacks not have so much start-up lag; her f-tilt takes longer to execute than Ganondorf's f-tilt, and its KO potency is just bad.

And as an aesthetic note, most of Palutena's attacks should really possess magic effects, since her staff is supposed to be magical.

 

[Luminario]

Palutena will definitely need to be fixed up for the next Smash Bros. installment, assuming that she comes back (which should be pretty likely). For starters, make her attacks not have so much start-up lag; her f-tilt takes longer to execute than Ganondorf's f-tilt, and its KO potency is just bad.

And as an aesthetic note, most of Palutena's attacks should really possess magic effects, since her staff is supposed to be magical.

There's also the fact that her tilts are unclankable, which usually means the opponents attacks get cut short so they can punish Palu's horrible endlag.
Dash attack and F tilt really need to be switched. The invincible shield bash works much better as a tilt.

 

[Morbi]

Palutena will definitely need to be fixed up for the next Smash Bros. installment, assuming that she comes back (which should be pretty likely). For starters, make her attacks not have so much start-up lag; her f-tilt takes longer to execute than Ganondorf's f-tilt, and its KO potency is just bad.

And as an aesthetic note, most of Palutena's attacks should really possess magic effects, since her staff is supposed to be magical.

The only issue is he could have rebalanced her at any time. He chose not to. I actually believe he does not understand the issues with her. Same with Zelda who has more or less been the same for nearly two decades. Apparently that archetype is just something that he wants in the game, but does not want functional for whatever reason.