Official Veterans Discussion

[NonSpecificGuy]

I love Snake but Bomberman/Simon>Snake IMO. I would love him in though if we can get all 3

I'd imagine 2/3 getting I'm which ain't bad, most likely Snake and Bomberman, but I would die if we got all three. Dream come true for me.

Anyway, my most wanted cut vets are Wolf and the IC's

Unpopular opinion but if only one of the cut 3 could come back I would choose Snake.

Not that I don't love the other two but Snake was my perfect Character

 

[Quillion]

Snake should absolutely stay as Konami's primary rep. But Simon is a much better choice for their secondary rep, since Bomberman is just an acquisition.

 

[Megadoomer]

I feel like Snake and Bomberman would work well. It's like Sonic and Bayonetta or Mega Man and Ryu, where there's a strong contrast between two characters from the same company. (one being a cartoony mascot character, and the other being somewhat realistic-looking)

 

[SmashChu]

personally id says the miis have a much better chance than that

Miis will probably be cut. Nintendo is phasing them out. The only Switch game that uses them is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, and that is because the Wii U game used them. They are now regulated to icons on the system. In contrast, numerous games on the Wii U used them, and the 3DS. The end of Miiverse is pretty much the end of the Miis. Simply put, they wont come back.

 

[Opossum]

Miis will probably be cut. Nintendo is phasing them out. The only Switch game that uses them is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, and that is because the Wii U game used them. They are now regulated to icons on the system. In contrast, numerous games on the Wii U used them, and the 3DS. The end of Miiverse is pretty much the end of the Miis. Simply put, they wont come back.

You said yourself that they're still Switch system icons. They're not phasing them out, necessarily, just not putting them front and center, likely in an attempt to distance themselves from the Wii branding.

And lack of relevance doesn't get characters cut regardless, lest Captain Falcon wouldn't be in Smash 4. I think Miis will be kept, but reworked (since I don't think we'll get custom moves again). They're still a big part of Nintendo's history and identity.

 

[SmashChu]

You said yourself that they're still Switch system icons. They're not phasing them out, necessarily, just not putting them front and center, likely in an attempt to distance themselves from the Wii branding.

And lack of relevance doesn't get characters cut regardless, lest Captain Falcon wouldn't be in Smash 4. I think Miis will be kept, but reworked (since I don't think we'll get custom moves again). They're still a big part of Nintendo's history and identity.

My point was that no game is using them and I don't think they will start using them again. The Switch only has them as an icon and I expect they'll be gone by the next system.

As a totally different unique character, maybe, but I don't see Miis returning as Nintendo is pretty much phasing them out. There wasn't any demand for them and hardly anyone uses them (the fact that the "legal Miis" made no progress should say something to how much people care about the character). They are expendable.

 

[Opossum]

My point was that no game is using them and I don't think they will start using them again. The Switch only has them as an icon and I expect they'll be gone by the next system.

As a totally different unique character, maybe, but I don't see Miis returning as Nintendo is pretty much phasing them out. There wasn't any demand for them and hardly anyone uses them (the fact that the "legal Miis" made no progress should say something to how much people care about the character). They are expendable.

Miis weren't unanimously rallied against. It was pretty much 50/50 from what I saw as far as those who wanted them and those who opposed them...and considering places like this are huge echo chambers, I'm willing to bet more of the general audience were happy to see them than not.

People would use Miis more often if it weren't for the brain dead way in which they were implemented (especially the whole "can't use them online" thing). "Legal Miis" made no progress because TOs like to overcentralize everything they can, and they saw a way to limit the character roster after crippling the legal stage list. And also because even among "Legal Mii" supporters there was indecision over how to go about legalizing them (which moves to use, whether custom Miis were allowed, etc).

Basically you can blame competitive myopia and developer idiocy for restricting the Miis so much. Hence why I think they'll return, albeit drastically changed, to prevent the absolute cluster**** they were this time around.

 

[Luminario]

Hence why I think they'll return, albeit drastically changed, to prevent the absolute cluster**** they were this time around.

How do you think they'd be changed though?
If they do return I'd prefer it if they were simply one character you can change the face of, bringing moveset inspiration from the Mii games like Miitopia or Wii Play and stuff like that. I'd really rather not have the devs waste time on making more that 1 variation of Miis this time around. Hopefully a change to the Miis also brings about a change to the Mii costumes, where they actually add in more alts for other characters as DLC instead of just for the Miis.

 

[SmashChu]

Miis weren't unanimously rallied against. It was pretty much 50/50 from what I saw as far as those who wanted them and those who opposed them...and considering places like this are huge echo chambers, I'm willing to bet more of the general audience were happy to see them than not.

People would use Miis more often if it weren't for the brain dead way in which they were implemented (especially the whole "can't use them online" thing). "Legal Miis" made no progress because TOs like to overcentralize everything they can, and they saw a way to limit the character roster after crippling the legal stage list. And also because even among "Legal Mii" supporters there was indecision over how to go about legalizing them (which moves to use, whether custom Miis were allowed, etc).

Basically you can blame competitive myopia and developer idiocy for restricting the Miis so much. Hence why I think they'll return, albeit drastically changed, to prevent the absolute cluster**** they were this time around.

I think you are looking at it too much in black and white. There are those people who hated them and loved them, yes, but what about people who didnt care about them?

I bring up the Legal Mii thing for this point. Yes, TOs wouldn't have them due to a headache, but what I'm saying is that even though there was a push for Legal Miis, there was not enough interest to change anything because no one gave two ****s about Miis. Also, IIRC, the Mii Miiverse communities were also the smallest (trying to find some info on it)

The problem is with the Miis themselves. Smash Bros is about playing as characters, but the Miis are souless blank slates. They exist to portray the player. This works in a game like Wii Sports where you want that, but not in a game like Smash where you wont to play as Nintendo's All Stars.

 

[Opossum]

I think you are looking at it too much in black and white. There are those people who hated them and loved them, yes, but what about people who didnt care about them?

I bring up the Legal Mii thing for this point. Yes, TOs wouldn't have them due to a headache, but what I'm saying is that even though there was a push for Legal Miis, there was not enough interest to change anything because no one gave two ****s about Miis. Also, IIRC, the Mii Miiverse communities were also the smallest (trying to find some info on it)

The problem is with the Miis themselves. Smash Bros is about playing as characters, but the Miis are souless blank slates. They exist to portray the player. This works in a game like Wii Sports where you want that, but not in a game like Smash where you wont to play as Nintendo's All Stars.

Then what about Villager? He/she is just as much of a blank slate as the Miis that are meant to represent the player. Miis are Nintendo All-Stars, and star in some of Nintendo's best selling games.

 

[SmashChu]

Then what about Villager? He/she is just as much of a blank slate as the Miis that are meant to represent the player. Miis are Nintendo All-Stars, and star in some of Nintendo's best selling games.

There is a big difference between what Miis are and what Villiger is. Animal Crossing is an single series, so the main player character is well defined within that game. Also, you can't really change them all that much.

Miis, however, are designed to be totally blank as they are meant for multiple different kinds of games. So why Villiger has a defined personality and characters, Miis don't and they never will. Miis are meant to be the player, so they can't have character because what a Mii is veries from person to person. This is why people liked Villager but didn't care about Miis. Villiger is the player character of Animal Crossing, a game where you catch stuff, talk to animals and live a carefree life. Miis are puppets designed for whatever game they are put in. This is why they are going away. Their value as "characters" is expendable and it's lost all its use. It's over.

 

[Opossum]

There is a big difference between what Miis are and what Villiger is. Animal Crossing is an single series, so the main player character is well defined within that game. Also, you can't really change them all that much.

Miis, however, are designed to be totally blank as they are meant for multiple different kinds of games. So why Villiger has a defined personality and characters, Miis don't and they never will. Miis are meant to be the player, so they can't have character because what a Mii is veries from person to person. This is why people liked Villager but didn't care about Miis. Villiger is the player character of Animal Crossing, a game where you catch stuff, talk to animals and live a carefree life. Miis are puppets designed for whatever game they are put in. This is why they are going away. Their value as "characters" is expendable and it's lost all its use. It's over.

But that's just the thing...the Villager fills the same role as the Miis. They don't have set personalities or goals or views. Animal Crossing prides itself on being a "do whatever you want at your own pace" series, and the villagers are indeed representative of the player.

They're literally in the exact same situation as far as being a blank slate is concerned.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The Switch still has Miis.

Switch games still use Miis (for example, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe).

They aren't being phased out, they just aren't the current focus.

I have a feeling will get games like Tomodacchi Life that use them soon.

 

[SmashChu]

The Switch still has Miis.

Switch games still use Miis (for example, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe).

They aren't being phased out, they just aren't the current focus.

I have a feeling will get games like Tomodacchi Life that use them soon.

Yes, and the one game that uses them is a Wii U title. That should tell you all you need to know.

But that's just the thing...the Villager fills the same role as the Miis. They don't have set personalities or goals or views. Animal Crossing prides itself on being a "do whatever you want at your own pace" series, and the villagers are indeed representative of the player.

They're literally in the exact same situation as far as being a blank slate is concerned.

You pretty much described what I'm saying. Animal Crossing has a set tone and theme. The Miis are meant to be in numerous games with no set theme which is why they don't work in Smash. No one wants to play as a Mii. They want to play as a character. Looking at Villager and then looking at the Mii should tell you one has a personality while the other is completely void of that.

 

[Opossum]

Yes, and the one game that uses them is a Wii U title. That should tell you all you need to know.

You pretty much described what I'm saying. Animal Crossing has a set tone and theme. The Miis are meant to be in numerous games with no set theme which is why they don't work in Smash. No one wants to play as a Mii. They want to play as a character. Looking at Villager and then looking at the Mii should tell you one has a personality while the other is completely void of that.

At this point you're just morphing the definition of "set personality" to suit your argument.

Animal Crossing has a set tone and theme...but that wasn't your argument. Yours was that Villager had a set personality, which is totally incorrect. The Villager is a blank slate, just like the Miis.

And I could just as easily say the "Mii" series of games is about placing oneself into various simulated situations with often kooky and eccentric results. Add in the fact that Miis are extremely emotive, and I don't see how you can say they lack any personality. And that doesn't even matter to begin with, because what personality does Game and Watch have? None. Therefore, it doesn't matter.

And I want to play as Miis (albeit reworked ones) so quit saying that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yes, and the one game that uses them is a Wii U title. That should tell you all you need to know.

Let's wait a bit here.

I have a feeling we'll get a Mii dedicated title soon.

Miitopia, Tomodacchi and the like are big sellers so there's no real reason to scrap them entirely.

 

[Curious Villager]

Didn't the Mii's get a new game on the 3DS fairly recently? We are only on the first year of the Switch, I'd say give it some time and we'll probably get more Mii related games soon, if not, at least having them as optional insert characters again like in Mario Kart 8.

I don't really see Sakurai removing them from the next Smash, they may get a rework though.

 

[Staarih]

The Mii's are pretty much becoming their own gaming icons these days haha, with Tomodachi Life and Miitopia (both selling surprisingly well), and Miitomo in the mobile side of things. A "Mii series" of games continuing with the Switch isn't too farfetched imo. Of course they're most known for their avatar thing, but it was really huge as was the Wii they debuted with, so even with that alone they are pretty iconic. I don't see them leaving, maybe reworked as many have said. And the costume aspect of Smash is huge and a moneymaker. If only that would be expanded wider and allowed in online play etc.

 

[Quillion]

I think the problem lies less in the Miis as characters and more in the customization side.

I'm torn with customization. Forget the fact that it's unbalanced, it's largely uninteresting to play with. Custom moves are way too hard to unlock, and all you get are minor variants of moves that already exist. The implementation is half-hearted.

They have two ways to go when it comes to working on customization, and both have major drawbacks.

• If they decide to further develop customization so that it's actually fun, that could take development time away from introducing new characters. It could even take resources away from reintroducing veterans since all of them have to be remodeled, reanimated, and (partially) recoded to fit the game.
• If they decide to do away with customization, we lose a good idea that could have been made great. Give them some credit, customization added some variety to how you played the game, so removing that would be a step backwards. And if they remove customization, either the Miis will become entirely pointless because their character creation gimmick is gone, or they will have to remove them, thus losing a potentially interesting character.

 

[Aurane]

I personally would prefer the new Xbox Avatars over Nintendo's Miis.

I want Young Link to return. He was my main in Melee, and my most favorite character in the N64 era.

 

[ryuu seika]

What if Roy had something like this as his Up B?

Less upward recovery but a good amount of vertical and excellent combat use, fitting in with his "explosive" theming. Making him more of an all or nothing character and more different from Marth.

 

[Deleted member]

bump
What do you guys think about Greninja's chances?

 

[Mic_128]

I think the problem lies less in the Miis as characters and more in the customization side.[....] Custom moves are way too hard to unlock, and all you get are minor variants of moves that already exist.

Mii's custom moves were all unlocked at the start and were all wildly different.

Really, it was not being able to use them online - which makes sense, I can't see Nintendo being thrilled about having parents complain because little Jonny was playing online against Jesus and Hitler - but the confusion on the competitive side. Do you allow all moves? Just the first one? Use pre-made combinations? What about weight/height of Mii's too?

Personally, Mii's were awesome and I hope they make a return. How else am I going to get a good Samus moveset? Or Chun Li and Iron Man?

 

[fogbadge]

bump
What do you guys think about Greninja's chances?

im gonna go with reasonable but who can say really

 

[Zerp]

bump
What do you guys think about Greninja's chances?

Almost guaranteed, I wouldn't be so sure of his chances if he didn't get an bunch of promotion and become really popular but he did and they'd have to be careless to cut Greninja now that he's won officially conducted popularity polls over Pokemon such as Pikachu, Mewtwo, Charizard, Lucario, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

Almost guaranteed, I wouldn't be so sure of his chances if he didn't get an bunch of promotion and become really popular but he did and they'd have to be careless to cut Greninja now that he's won officially conducted popularity polls over Pokemon such as Pikachu, Mewtwo, Charizard, Lucario, etc.

While I see your point, I wouldn't say he's "almost guaranteed" myself.
It could end up being low priority, and for whatever reason I can't see all 6 Pokemon currently in Smash returning. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic.

 

[Luminario]

bump
What do you guys think about Greninja's chances?

His chances of returning are pretty good.
Compared to other Pokemon however, he's probably above Mewtwo but below the rest.

 

[Ghirahilda]

About pokémon...
I remember people talking about Jigglypuff being a "low priority" veteran on the pre-smash4 eras, people was using arguments like "the N64 veterans aren't safe from suffering the cut" "there are more interesting and deserving pokémon" "Mewtwo is a better gen 1 rep so Jigglypuff will get cut and Mewtwo will return" "she is a Kirby semiclone"

I laughed so hard at their faces when Jigglypuff was confirmed. I think she isn't going anywhere. She is here to stay

 

[Deleted member]

About pokémon...
I remember people talking about Jigglypuff being a "low priority" veteran on the pre-smash4 eras, people was using arguments like "the N64 veterans aren't safe from suffering the cut" "there are more interesting and deserving pokémon" "Mewtwo is a better gen 1 rep so Jigglypuff will get cut and Mewtwo will return" "she is a Kirby semiclone"

I laughed so hard at their faces when Jigglypuff was confirmed. I think she isn't going anywhere. She is here to stay

Jigglypuff's been low priority several times though. It barely made it into Brawl.

Like, I don't think Jigglypuff is very likely to be cut, but you shouldn't rule out the possibility.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Jigglypuff's been low priority several times though. It barely made it into Brawl.

Like, I don't think Jigglypuff is very likely to be cut, but you shouldn't rule out the possibility.

Hmmm Yes I remeber that. Her being absent of the Subspace Emissary was the most used argument too. It's sad that we don't know how /why they decided to put her on SSB4 again. But the important part is that she is still there

...

Something wrong?

 

[Deleted member]

Hmmm Yes I remeber that. Her being absent of the Subspace Emissary was the most used argument too. It's sad that we don't know how /why they decided to put her on SSB4 again. But the important part is that she is still there

...

Something wrong?

Nope, not really. I don't care if it's in or not.
It holds no value in my book whatsoever, but some people like it, so I guess it can exist for those people's sake. If it doesn't make it into the next game, I think I'd be completely indifferent.

 

[Zerp]

While I see your point, I wouldn't say he's "almost guaranteed" myself.
It could end up being low priority, and for whatever reason I can't see all 6 Pokemon currently in Smash returning. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic.

I still think he is and I don't think any of the current Pokemon are likely to be cut, although it's really hard to know the decision making process they use and how likely anyone really is because we can't really tell what they're thinking. Anyway, I think at the very least Greninja's more likely than Jigglypuff, she has veteran status and is iconic, but while Greninja lacks in legacy he is more popular than she is and the development team clearly gives him love and attention, he got changed in patches 1.0.4, 1.0.5, 1.0.8, 1.1.0, 1.1.1, 1.1.3 and 1.1.5 while Jigglypuff only got one change in patch 1.0.4, if I had to guess which one of them the people making the game prefer, I'd guess Greninja.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Nope, not really. I don't care if it's in or not.
It holds no value in my book whatsoever, but some people like it, so I guess it can exist for those people's sake. If it doesn't make it into the next game, I think I'd be completely indifferent.

Just joking.
But I understand you, also I understant the people who are indifferent for her being or not being on the game. Also, we know that she is just here because she made it on the SBB64. If she was not present in the past, she wouldn't be now.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Here's something I came up with. I took every character I wanted in, and replaced them, so the roster would stay the same size. Here's what I came up with. (Miis count as 1)
In: Knuckles Decidueye K. Rool
Justification: I think people really wanted these characters to return, and/or or they were frequently requested for the ballot.
Out:
Justification: Either shown bitterness for taking up a roster spot, or underused in general. (Wii Fit is an interesting case. The character design is OK, but I see little representation, and Wii fit trainer is not a general gaming icon.) The reason so few characters were cut is that so much of the roster is memorable and seeing them go would be disappointing e.g. Ganon, Falco. Though they are clones, many people main them, and have gotten very good with the character.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's something I came up with. I took every character I wanted in, and replaced them, so the roster would stay the same size. Here's what I came up with. (Miis count as 1)
In: Knuckles Decidueye K. Rool
Justification: I think people really wanted these characters to return, and/or or they were frequently requested for the ballot.
Out:
Justification: Either shown bitterness for taking up a roster spot, or underused in general. (Wii Fit is an interesting case. The character design is OK, but I see little representation, and Wii fit trainer is not a general gaming icon.) The reason so few characters were cut is that so much of the roster is memorable and seeing them go would be disappointing e.g. Ganon, Falco. Though they are clones, many people main them, and have gotten very good with the character.

My take:
In: Decidueye, , Isaac, King K. Rool,
Out:
Only chose my top 5 most wanted, in order to minimize cuts.

 

[Luminario]

Jigglypuff's been low priority several times though. It barely made it into Brawl.

Like, I don't think Jigglypuff is very likely to be cut, but you shouldn't rule out the possibility.

I think the only way Jiggs is going to be cut is if there's absolutely no time at the end of the development stage. Jiggs is so simple to create it's on a different level to the other unique Pokemon fighters, and just like what happened in the past 2 games it got in over Mewtwo thanks to semi-clone status. Plus Jiggs is truly iconic to Smash by now, and we'd lose out on the representation of the cutesy girly Pokemon if it was ever cut.

 

[SmashChu]

Let's wait a bit here.

I have a feeling we'll get a Mii dedicated title soon.

Miitopia, Tomodacchi and the like are big sellers so there's no real reason to scrap them entirely.

There won't be one.

The issue is branding. The Mii brand is analogous to the Wii (it's Wii upsidedown). But with the failure of the Wii U and, to a lesser extent the 3DS, Nintendo is eliminating anything with these systems. Look at everything regarding the Switch and you'll see this

• No Virtual Console
• No Miiverse (Nintendo shut it down despite the 3DS still being sold)
• No Mii game at launch (Wii launched with Wii Sports, Wii U with Nintendo Land. 1-2-Switch ditched the branding)
• No Warioware game (3 of the 4 systems had a Wario Ware game that showed off the system)

Nintendo is redoing everything with the Switch. This means Miis. They are only used on the Menu and for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (because the Wii U game used them). I think Flip Wars was originally using Miis as well. So in almost every regard, Miis are being killed off.

"But what about Tomodacchi Life," it did well, but not amazing well. Miitopia kind of flopped. Miitomo, Nintendo's communication app, was a dud too. Every other mobile app did better and all of them featured Nintendo's characters. Nintendo is not oblivious to this fact.

The issue is branding. Nintendo doesn't want to promote Miis as much as they want to promote their IPs. Look at ARMS. It did worse than Tomodacchi Life, but Nintendo can sell toys and a graphic novel. They don't have that with Miis. The truth is, no one cared about Miis the character. They cared only about the game. This worked for Wii Sports, but it flopped the minute the Miis became anything more than an avatar.

The truth is that Miis are being killed off just as anything related to the Wii is. The Wii U flopped, so those brands are dead (also noticed how Wii U was killed immediately while 3DS lumbers along). With the Wii brand dead, the Miis die too. They will be phased out by the next system. No one really cares about them, not even in Smash (which they are considered bottom tier characters and no one even bothers to argue for their legality). They're dead.

 

[Ghirahilda]

There won't be one.

The issue is branding. The Mii brand is analogous to the Wii (it's Wii upsidedown). But with the failure of the Wii U and, to a lesser extent the 3DS, Nintendo is eliminating anything with these systems. Look at everything regarding the Switch and you'll see this

• No Virtual Console
• No Miiverse (Nintendo shut it down despite the 3DS still being sold)
• No Mii game at launch (Wii launched with Wii Sports, Wii U with Nintendo Land. 1-2-Switch ditched the branding)
• No Warioware game (3 of the 4 systems had a Wario Ware game that showed off the system)

Nintendo is redoing everything with the Switch. This means Miis. They are only used on the Menu and for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (because the Wii U game used them). I think Flip Wars was originally using Miis as well. So in almost every regard, Miis are being killed off.

"But what about Tomodacchi Life," it did well, but not amazing well. Miitopia kind of flopped. Miitomo, Nintendo's communication app, was a dud too. Every other mobile app did better and all of them featured Nintendo's characters. Nintendo is not oblivious to this fact.

The issue is branding. Nintendo doesn't want to promote Miis as much as they want to promote their IPs. Look at ARMS. It did worse than Tomodacchi Life, but Nintendo can sell toys and a graphic novel. They don't have that with Miis. The truth is, no one cared about Miis the character. They cared only about the game. This worked for Wii Sports, but it flopped the minute the Miis became anything more than an avatar.

The truth is that Miis are being killed off just as anything related to the Wii is. The Wii U flopped, so those brands are dead (also noticed how Wii U was killed immediately while 3DS lumbers along). With the Wii brand dead, the Miis die too. They will be phased out by the next system. No one really cares about them, not even in Smash (which they are considered bottom tier characters and no one even bothers to argue for their legality). They're dead.

Your post is dead too.
You are trying too hard.
You are using assumptions, using your opinion like they're are actually oficial statements

"Nintendo is killing Miis and anything Wii and Wii U related"

Mii maker is still on the Switch system, Miitomo is still a thing, dude, It even have My Nintendo rewards for it

The Switch did't even completed one ****** year!

"Bu-bu-but the Switch don't have a Mii game!"
Yes, and It also don't have a Pikmin game, a Star Fox game, a F-Zero game.

 

[N3ON]

Strange logic that sees a series with two new titles last year, including one that debuted Nintendo's presence on a new platform, as well as an upgraded Mii maker on Nintendo's newest product and deems it a dead brand.
What is an alive brand? One that gets a new game every month?

Also did you call the 3ds a failure? To that I can really only reply with a befuddled... whe??
Did you stop paying attention after its like... sixth month on the market? You really don't inspire a great deal of credibility, Chu.

 

[Deleted member]

I really want the Miis out of Smash, but SmashChu you're really grasping at straws here.
The Switch hasn't even been out for a year. It's very likely that we will see a new Mii game later down the road. Even then, the Mii Maker is still a thing on the Switch.