VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[DoH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrshkmcZloo

Look at this lulzy combo at around 9:45

 

[Purpletuce]

Link with time stamp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrshkmcZloo#t=585

Uair onto plat, Dair-> utilt, soft bair nair. This Peach looks like a Fox.

 

[DoH]

Why does that link to an article about chinese students?

 

[Purpletuce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrshkmcZloo#585

I sent that article to a friend recently, not sure why the youtube linked there, that's funny though.

Apparently I'm the worst at timestamping. . . I'll give up now.

 

[MacD]

you know youtube has the ability to do it for you......

 

[Purpletuce]

That's actually what I used, I copied it and pasted here, not a clue why it happened that way.

 

[Blother]

As I watch videos I don't see how anyone enjoys the Marth matchup.
But as a general question: what kind of exercises do people do to practice OoS FC Nair or other type of specific Peach tech? I feel like my FC game is lacking

edit: are these matchup tips Vanz made still the same to this day? there's bound to be new tech ;_;

I'll give some advice, but I am yet to play against good players, which I will be this weekend, so I am not sure how solid the advice will be.

Generally I like to spend a little time everyday and just get some of the basics down. I usually start by dash dancing, wave dashing and wave landing around whatever map I am trying out today. Then I move onto getting quick ground floating FC nairs and bairs. After that I'll mix it up by doing other little things like seeing what my option are on the ledge or practice throwing turnips in different ways, etc. Some times I'll play against low-level comps to practice dash grabbing, shielding or whatever I am working on that day. Ever since I have started doing this I have noticed my tech skill finally start to improve since I have learned more abut techniques.

I only have amateur players to play against and I've gotten it from the point where I was winning every match, although some were close, to 3-stock/4-stock games every time. Its not ideal to play with players that are worse when trying to learn, but I've made it work by really focusing on my tech skill and I can now start learning how to combo. I will sometimes play games where I will try to only wavedash for movement or play without floating and using regular SHFFLs like other characters. Granted this is after I have warmed up my basics with FC and everything. Combos won't be too much different against better players either except for the changes in DI. It also helps with experimenting with your character, which I find very important when starting out.

 

[Phenoz]

I'll give some advice, but I am yet to play against good players, which I will be this weekend, so I am not sure how solid the advice will be.

Generally I like to spend a little time everyday and just get some of the basics down. I usually start by dash dancing, wave dashing and wave landing around whatever map I am trying out today. Then I move onto getting quick ground floating FC nairs and bairs. After that I'll mix it up by doing other little things like seeing what my option are on the ledge or practice throwing turnips in different ways, etc. Some times I'll play against low-level comps to practice dash grabbing, shielding or whatever I am working on that day. Ever since I have started doing this I have noticed my tech skill finally start to improve since I have learned more abut techniques.

I only have amateur players to play against and I've gotten it from the point where I was winning every match, although some were close, to 3-stock/4-stock games every time. Its not ideal to play with players that are worse when trying to learn, but I've made it work by really focusing on my tech skill and I can now start learning how to combo. I will sometimes play games where I will try to only wavedash for movement or play without floating and using regular SHFFLs like other characters. Granted this is after I have warmed up my basics with FC and everything. Combos won't be too much different against better players either except for the changes in DI. It also helps with experimenting with your character, which I find very important when starting out.

Can you explain how to do quick ground floating FC nairs and bairs? What is the control input?

Also I could use some tips on wavelanding. A third thing that I notice is that sometimes when I get hit off stage and I use my 2nd jump I wont have my float right away for some reason and was wondering why this happens.

I have come a long way with tech skill with Peach. I can wavedash out of shield (not as consistent as I want) and am very comfortable off stage, but I need to get a little better

 

[Jethrotex]

Hold jump - control stick down (instantly) - A for nair, c-stick back for bair.

 

[AustinRC]

So I've recently started playing Peach. I'm wondering if someone wouldn't mind answering some questions for me. Her neutral game confuses me greatly in many match ups and I miss many different opportunities because of this. Not sure if I should just ask here or if someone wants to message with me. I really enjoy this character and want to improve my play with her but I just do not grasp some of the basic concepts with the character. I had some matches that were recorded I could link here soon when they are uploaded. Thanks in advanced!

 

[Xyzz]

Ask ahead here, or if you'd like to have a more back-and-forth style of smaller questions we can use some text-messenger, too.

 

[MacD]

what are some of those most basic tech skill questions people ask? i want to do a peach tutorial type thing like ken did.

i'd want just like general things that people would want to know when learning, and those those peach specific questions.

basically because people keep asking how to do things like insta float FC stuff. i figured making a little video explaining all these peach techs would be helpful, and then maybe i could do more things like that in the future idk

 

[Phenoz]

what are some of those most basic tech skill questions people ask? i want to do a peach tutorial type thing like ken did.

i'd want just like general things that people would want to know when learning, and those those peach specific questions.

basically because people keep asking how to do things like insta float FC stuff. i figured making a little video explaining all these peach techs would be helpful, and then maybe i could do more things like that in the future idk

edge guard techniques, different turnip throwing techniques, good combos on certain characters

 

[AustinRC]

Personally I have all the tech skill down, I'd like to see match up oriented videos. Things like options from neutral and how to beat certain things in certain situations. Also tips on recovery because my recovery is ass.

 

[MacD]

the point of the first vid would be like a 10-15 min (idk how long it would take) that all the new peach players or anyone trying to learn peach could go to for the real basic tech skill. so it'd cover generic smash tech skill & peach specific teach skill, and would overall be more geared towards people trying to learn peach.

then from there i could do another that would be more "advanced" peach stuff. so maybe ways peach can edgeguard, simple combos, turnip stuff, floating, spacing, idk.

Phenoz's first question just made me think that there should be a video/guide like that because we get those questions all the time.

 

[john!]

i thought they were making new "advanced how to play" vids? anyone else remember hearing about this?

your vids should focus on peach strats imo. if they say more than "dash attack and down smash" then i'll watch

 

[Jethrotex]

If you take four of their stocks while only losing a maximum of three, you win.

 

[john!]

If you take four of their stocks while only losing a maximum of three, you win.

whoa, whoa, dude. we're trying to stick to the basics here. leave stuff like this for after they've mastered multishining.

 

[AWE_Adam]

the point of the first vid would be like a 10-15 min (idk how long it would take) that all the new peach players or anyone trying to learn peach could go to for the real basic tech skill. so it'd cover generic smash tech skill & peach specific teach skill, and would overall be more geared towards people trying to learn peach.

then from there i could do another that would be more "advanced" peach stuff. so maybe ways peach can edgeguard, simple combos, turnip stuff, floating, spacing, idk.

Phenoz's first question just made me think that there should be a video/guide like that because we get those questions all the time.

Stuff that would be good for basic tech:

-basic float cancel options

-simple dash attack followups

-throwing turnips OOS, also throwing behind or up.

-smash turnip throw vs soft throw

-how to wavedash without accidentally floating

-instant float OOS

-instant float with momentum

 

[Blother]

What I would like to see is a guide on the best moments to use each of Peach's moves. I would love to see/read about different ways to approach with Peach. For example I feel like it is tough to use Fair against Marth, so what would be other good approaches? Also what are good ways to follow up on attacks based on percentage/character? Something like when is a good time to use Uair vs Nair.

As for basics I think the best approach would be to look the spacing/timing of attacks. I feel as though a lot of the tech skill with Peach is easy to accomplish, but the ability to space/combo/punish is what makes Peach players better. Something detailing where attacks hit and how the spots differ in what happens. Difference between weak and strong Bair and Nair, difference between using Fair to hit forward and how it can be used to hit backward, etc. Anything to distinguish how the attacks really work and different ways to use them.

To answer the question about ground floating I hold down on the control stick, hold jump, release down, press A, release jump, and then hold down again to FF to the ground (its a little distance but gets you there a bit faster). For Bair do the same thing but hold whatever direction is back on you control stick and then press A. If you want to try to stay in place while use the Bair, then try hitting the forward direction right before moving the control stick to the back direction to do the Bair. Remember to practice both Bair directions. I practice by doing as many as I can in succession and then trying them out on NPCs for a few minutes. I messed up a lot at first, but I can use them pretty consistently while playing people now

 

[Phenoz]

JUST TELL ME HOW TO BE AS GOOD AS ARMADA!!!! I MEAN HOW HARD COULD THAT BE?

 

[Jethrotex]

whoa, whoa, dude. we're trying to stick to the basics here. leave stuff like this for after they've mastered multishining.

Proceed to multishine until they shield di the shines away and are no longer near you... continue to multishine.

 

[MacD]

i thought they were making new "advanced how to play" vids? anyone else remember hearing about this?

your vids should focus on peach strats imo. if they say more than "dash attack and down smash" then i'll watch

like i said, i wanted to do a peach thing. there is going to be some basic tech skill overlap the way i want to do it but that's always ok.

thanks for the starting ideas guys. i'll have to wait until after apex to really figure out what i want to do, so if you think of anything, post it up

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I am a bit confused on an overall match-up approach with Peach from a neutral game perspective and even maximizing punishment.

There are plenty of Falcon, Falco, Fox, JIggs, Marth, and Sheik play out there over the years. I feel like I could try picking-up any one of them now and have a real good idea on how to improve myself with the character on my own. Especially since many of them have many of the same traits that lots of stuff carries over from one character to another. Fox/Falco/Sheik having a very long Bair and disjoint for edgeguards. Fast acceleration upwards with all of those characters or dashing speeds.

Peach on the other hand sort of baffles me as she has lots of different qualities. A lot of her movement is extremely slow. Of said characters, I believe all of them have faster walks and dashes than her (maybe not falco) and faster 2nd jump acceleration upwards. It almost feels like Peach has to stay at a constant proximity to a lot of characters while the aforementioned characters can keep much larger distance, but still be able to close the distance very easily due to their acceleration in their movement.

Anyway, are their any other methods Peach has to "push" forward to gain an advantage from neutral other than hop -> Fair or hop + turnip? I swear this is the sole way I see Armad's pushing forward to take stage. Plus, would it be incorrect to say that peach would prefer to carry her punishes to the ledge? More horizontally than vertically? Marth I believe carries a distinct advantage from a more vertical way of punishing rather than trying to go laterally.

 

[Jethrotex]

Peach is a complicated woman.

 

[MacD]

i come here looking to see what people thought about apex and i see nothing

ya'll suck

this is probably the first time ever post national that the peach boards have been dead not talking about anything from the tourney

 

[Jethrotex]

Oh, sorry, good stuff giving everyone the MacD.

No sarcasm, I re-read it and realized it might sound sarcastic.

Also the last game vs Fiction was pretty sad.

 

[Eval]

i come here looking to see what people thought about apex and i see nothing

ya'll suck

this is probably the first time ever post national that the peach boards have been dead not talking about anything from the tourney

Came here for the same. Dead. -_-

 

[MacD]

also nothing pre-tourney now that i look at it.

no "gl everyone"
no OMG EXCEL ZERO THOUGH WTF
no OMG GUYS, MACD IS THE HIGHEST PLACING PEACH
no OMG GUYS, MACD HAD SUCH AND EASY BRACKET HE SUCKS
no WAIT HOW DID DOH NOT PLACE HIGHER
no WTF HAPPENED TO MACD VS FICTION
no OH MAN I WAS HOPING IT BLADEWISE VS MACD WOULD HAPPEN IN THEIR POOL
no OMG I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO GET AT LEAST TOP 8 IN TEAMS WITH FICTION
no I WAS SO HYPE WATCHING TOP 8
etc.

i know it's going to come off as conceited because it looks like i am fishing for compliments, but with everything people told me about myself/excel zero (randoms and non-peach mains), i was expecting some peach boards hype. i was genuinely curious what the peach mains thought of my performance & commentary, along with the other peach mains performances.

RIP smashboards. guess you really are dead

 

[Alacion]

I play Peach and you don't know me but I'm proud of you.

Your commentary was just fine, though I missed your matches. I watched Excel's matches and I did go a bit crazy, though not on Smashboards. Then everybody's like... "Who's Excel Zero?"

 

[dkuo]

seriously tho excel zero


and yeah your commentating was solid macd

 

[CyberZixx]

I was rooting for you to take get into top 8 over fiction. I like and respect Peach much more than Fox. At least 9th is a solid placing. It was a weird tourney overall with some big names not making it all that far, amsa placing well and sadly the rise of 20XX.

 

[AWE_Adam]

I've been feeling like Peach has been having a hard time in tournaments lately!

My favorite Peach win this apex was MacD vs Plup
I hope Plup left that match super salty.

Fiction & MacD vs PP and Leffen was depressing

Wish I saw MacD vs Colbol in top 8 instead of so many Fox v Puff matches...

Didn't catch much of Bladewise or DoH... wish DoH had more streamtime.

<3

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah, Peach boards have been drying up for a bit, now. I've neglected to check SWF, too. But I did have some thoughts.

You do amazing teams commentary. You've always said how you prefer having higher level players do commentary, because they notice the little things that go on a lot better. And you definitely displayed it well. I really enjoyed it.

I have stopped expecting Peach dittos in bracket to ever happen (and if they do, I definitely don't expect them to be recorded...like you vs Bladewise at KoC3, I think).

I would've much preferred you in top 8, just because I enjoy watching you play more, but then it would've been you vs Hbox and I would've been quite sad. I didn't like that you had to play Fiction of all people to get into top 8, but I guess that's how the cookie crumbles

I had no information on DoH after finding out he got out of pools. And as for teams, there were so many big teams at Apex 2014. While it's regrettable that you guys didn't get top 8, it's not like you lost to bad teams/didn't play well, either. I intend to go back and watch them, as I missed most of teams (though I heard about how it went down later)

Wake and I were talking about how good Excel Zero looked. He reminded us of Armada, but also like a new gen Peach. He had a fair amount of "new" things I hadn't really seen Peaches using too much (like shield dropping!) and it was very fresh. He met Hbox after going to loser's (thanks Leffen) so that was where the dream ended for him.

We also discussed that without Armada, Peach is forever doomed to 9th. :| All the same, you did very well. I was excited for you, cause I always thought you could place really high once you started playing again. Amazing job!

Personally, for me, after Leffen vs Mango, top 8 kinda got dull. But that's just me.

(you have really good teams commentary!)

 

[Jethrotex]

Meh, smashboards kinda began to sink after the "upgrade." Although I never really posted much regardless, I just sort of message people on Facebook to discuss things.

But yeah, Excel Zero's Peach is pretty ;=;

 

[Phenoz]

also nothing pre-tourney now that i look at it.

no "gl everyone"
no OMG EXCEL ZERO THOUGH WTF
no OMG GUYS, MACD IS THE HIGHEST PLACING PEACH
no OMG GUYS, MACD HAD SUCH AND EASY BRACKET HE SUCKS
no WAIT HOW DID DOH NOT PLACE HIGHER
no WTF HAPPENED TO MACD VS FICTION
no OH MAN I WAS HOPING IT BLADEWISE VS MACD WOULD HAPPEN IN THEIR POOL
no OMG I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO GET AT LEAST TOP 8 IN TEAMS WITH FICTION
no I WAS SO HYPE WATCHING TOP 8
etc.

i know it's going to come off as conceited because it looks like i am fishing for compliments, but with everything people told me about myself/excel zero (randoms and non-peach mains), i was expecting some peach boards hype. i was genuinely curious what the peach mains thought of my performance & commentary, along with the other peach mains performances.

RIP smashboards. guess you really are dead

I honestly was surprised you beat the Moon. I really saw him breaking out

 

[DoH]

I beat Darrell and then lost to Zhu in a super close 2-0. He then went on to destroy Excel Zero and said I was a lot better at the matchup, for whatever that counts.

Also Peach > Samus this tournament

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm glad the Peaches beat the Samuses this tourney. That made me really happy. :D

 

[MacD]

well that's a start. thanks guys for the kind words.

now next big tourney let's make sure this doesn't happen again.

also who is going to be that next peach main who will be joining us upper bracket placers??

 

[AWE_Adam]

I've been working very hard at stepping up my game... It's been a long, harrowing road for me.
A few weeks ago, I got 13th out of 70 melee entrants at Silent Wolf & Bladewise's local (Gameclucks, in WA) + 5th in teams, and I'm glad to see noticeable progress despite having moved away from SoCal since July.
I have a long way to go, but I'm systematically eliminating my bad matchups one by one.
As long as I continue to put in the good work, I am eager to progress and start checking off names from my hitlist the next time I visit Cali.

I've been impressed with Jethrotex watching him on a recent Canada stream. Strong peach with good, consistent control.
Didn't catch Excel Zero at Apex so I'll have to look him up.