VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Heero Yuy]

What is the best way to edge guard a marth?

I faced a Marth yesterday and I just spammed turnips while he was trying to recover. I would also mix up things a little by floating over the ledge and Zair dropping one. I was successful, but there's also the option of floating low and dropping to grab the edge if he's out of range on the Dolphin Slash.

 

[Ryobeat]

I just came back from a No Johns tournament; got 13th pretty sure. I lost to Slox's Falco and Ben Grimm's peach. There should be videos soon. I think I did fairly well vs both of them . With Falco, the lasers give me problems dash attacking, when is the best time to go for one? I usually get stopped by lasers and ftilt. Also vs Ben Grimm, the first game was a 3 stock high percent, because I tried to play the match campy. In Game 2 I did alot better, getting him to 2 stocks high percent. I started approaching more, yet he told me the approaching in that matchup isn't good. Thoughts on that theory? I will post videos when they go up.

 

[MacD]

i'm pretty sure a few people in this thread will tell you not to speak to him

Don't speak its name

Its already too late...

from the front page :
Ahh.. the ever so important ditto. It's all about spacing. There are many ways to play it. Some play campy, some play aggressive. Some just have no idea what to do. Basically, you just want to make sure that you respond to whatever the other peach does...... important stuff go read........ I recommend being the aggressor in this match up. Keep up the pressure and use turnips to help control space. Low Uairs beat A LOT of Peach's aerial approaches and it combos. learn how to keep control of the match.

this match is really to each his own. vanz, doh , and i (and alan too i think) will tell you to be aggressive, be be aggressive. light, doll, and pink shinobi wouldn't approach for a million dollars in that match up. you can do what you want. just know that if you play campy, the better players will play you twice, beat you, get bored, find a reason to leave the TV, immediately go find another peach main, complain that you play campy/boring, and find every way possible to not play you for at least a year, probably longer

 

[Heero Yuy]

This is gonna be awkward to ask, but... What do you guys thing of XIF, a Southeast Peach player? I marathoned some of his videos the other day to get some tips from his playstyle, but I'm curious to know if he's the right person to attempt to imitate.

 

[john!]

don't try to fully imitate one player... watch multiple peach players, and take from each player's playstyle whatever techniques you think will help your own playstyle.

edit: but yeah xif *****

 

[Heero Yuy]

don't try to fully imitate one player... watch multiple peach players, and take from each player's playstyle whatever techniques you think will help your own playstyle.

Yeah, I know. Though Armada, DoH, and Pink Shinobi I've already overdosed a little on. I'm trying to look for some really good but lesser known players.

 

[Alex Strife]

I just came back from a No Johns tournament; got 13th pretty sure. I lost to Slox's Falco and Ben Grimm's peach. There should be videos soon. I think I did fairly well vs both of them . With Falco, the lasers give me problems dash attacking, when is the best time to go for one? I usually get stopped by lasers and ftilt. Also vs Ben Grimm, the first game was a 3 stock high percent, because I tried to play the match campy. In Game 2 I did alot better, getting him to 2 stocks high percent. I started approaching more, yet he told me the approaching in that matchup isn't good. Thoughts on that theory? I will post videos when they go up.

first rule of peach...dont listen to him ROFL. Listen to MacD/Vanz/DoH/Etc

 

[Ryobeat]

Yeah, I feel like being aggressive is the way to go. Mew2king also says that approaching first loses the match, so I'm not too sure yet. Its also a very underplayed matchup. (Though I was thinking to rewatch Vanz vs Armada, minus the stitch faces LOL) , but if I had to guess, being aggressive and baiting out dsmash by pressure would be really good. With Ben, I dont really mind him, but its whatever you guys can have your opinions. Can't wait til the videos go up.

 

[Alex Strife]

Yeah, I feel like being aggressive is the way to go. Mew2king also says that approaching first loses the match, so I'm not too sure yet. Its also a very underplayed matchup. (Though I was thinking to rewatch Vanz vs Armada, minus the stitch faces LOL) , but if I had to guess, being aggressive and baiting out dsmash by pressure would be really good. With Ben, I dont really mind him, but its whatever you guys can have your opinions. Can't wait til the videos go up.

I mean,

To be honest I think in tristate cristin / dj and a few others know a lot more about the peach ditto than most people. They have been around and all are well versed players

 

[CT Chia]

Looks like she was just an "etc" in your first post

Cristin is good at 2v1s

 

[Ryobeat]

Listen to Crismas she is a good peach

Overall Im just gonna try to get alot of different advice from alot different peach and take in what I think is right until I try it again. I wish I went out to play MacD, Vanz, DoH at Apex. Eh, Zenith is coming from what I hear so maybe I can see DoH there.

 

[CT Chia]

Callllllouuuuttttttsssssss

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Armada is obviously the best peach so there's little reason to devote imitation to many other players.
Xif is pretty crazy though. That nair pillar on luigi got me playing peach in the first place.
@ryobeat, if you want a wall of text, you know who to ask. tbh ben's pretty bad at dittos lol, if you lost to him it was probably because you were being mindless.

 

[Ryobeat]

Well he maybe bad at the dittos , but this is also my second time at the ditto i dont know much to begin with.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

What you need to know about dittos in order to win:
1) being above lets you win the fair spacing battle
2) turnips control space and combo, so they ****ing ****
3) be a smarter player than your opponent in terms of dash attack/grab/dsmash/wd back.

doing damage is kinda unimportant in this MU because it's momentum based. making better descisions = winning. I'd try to write out a flowchart for what aerial beats what but it's insanely complicated because it changes based on what angle both players are coming from and how long the hitboxes have been out. It's best to get a feel for all that by experience.

I kinda like peach dittos.

 

[DoH]

When did mafia start being able to answer questions?

 

[MacD]

when the rest of us stopped giving answers

i mean he's heard it all enough to know the answers. most of what he said is good/general DUH

only thing i'm going to add cause i don't care beyond this is for his 1) he means when you are both floating in the air. the higher floater normally wins if you both go to fair each other

 

[DoH]

They grow up so fast!

 

[MacD]

it seems like just yesterday he was at G1 and stalking all the good players and making sure no one liked him

now he's turned into a druggy. good times, good times

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I was so close, too!
imo it was when i stopped playing peach, now I do what i think works and it's more correct
I got more perspective on her tools and what they're good for, and thought a whole lot about why I lose.
truth be told i'm pretty much the archetypical scrub, the only wins I got for the first 2-3 years of me playing were 'cause I could dsmash like I really wanted it, and I "improved" because I played all the ****in time while *actually* maturing and getting smarter
but all I really did was turnip fair, dsmash, dash attack, and spam fc nair inneffectively LOL but I did it with a whole lot of willpower so it worked more often than it would on paper, which is why people hate losing to me
TBH I never read anything on the peach boards that really helped that much, because if someone told me "oh you gotta dtilt sheik" that was all I'd do because I read it as a solution to the problem instead of a tool. (only exception was when I read that beats midtiers, 'cause that works in real life)
falcon made me stop trying to cc dsmash foxes and wd out of the way instead, and actually think about where I was going when I move and whatnot. I'd jump in knee fullscreen and people would just completely outspace it, so it was like "oh if I attack whenever I want I'll get *****" which was a connection I never made with peach, and a whole lotta other **** like that involving rolling, jumping, grabbing, etc
it also helps that I think about this game all the time and actually try to put in the effort to becoming top level instead of saying that I do and then complaining when I lose to randoms

Edit: Y'all know how ben grimm got 5th at no johns? Doing exactly what I did, by dsmashing with willpower and wanting it really bad. I just hope he's able to obtain the same perspective and maturity I did.

 

[DoH]

No she just needs to go away.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Irish i was going to not say anything when you cakked me bad at the peach mu b/c while i have gotten better at it i just didnt care if u people still thought i suck at it, but now u are lying and saying the only reason i do well is b/c i dsmash a lot. That is just a bold faced lie. In fact at this past no johns when i was playing hax he even told me how i dont just down smash randomly anymore and when i do use the move its in the right situations. When i get 5th at no johns its b/c i out think and out play my opponents

 

[DoH]

 

[MacD]

well if we are gonna reuse gifs, i think this one has to be included

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Wow you are all judgmental pricks. Most of the people on here dont know me and when i say that i mean never met me before so its cool you have decided to be ***** for no good reason. I guess you all just like being keyboard warriors.

So lets make a deal you guys never mention or talk about me on the peach boards and i wont post on the peach boards, since you all seem to hate me for no good reason and i dont feel like/have the time to deal with all of the drama you guys want to cause

 

[Jayk]

So, if its all well and good, I'd like to ask a few questions about Peach vs Shiek...

Are there any safe approaches against her? It seems like if I go for aerials I get F-Tilted -> Faired, and if I go for like a dash attack or something she'll just WD back and then dash forward to punish any lag with a grab -> fair.

I was having a little success with just dashing at my opponent and waiting for the WD back and jumping at him and nairing but that doesn't seem like it would work very often/regularly.

I can't really defend too well either, she can catch my turnips but I can only dodge needles... plus she's a lot faster.

Also, what stages are good against her?
Obviously Dreamland seems good, but it will be banned...
I've tried FoD, which seemed horrible.
Now I'm thinking either FD or Yoshi's?

 

[Ryobeat]

PLEASE CRITIQUE. Me vs Ben Grimm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hb0UiHLA3I . The first match is awful, I learn exactly how I dont know where what beats out what. I didnt know about the higher float, and he caught me for it. Second match I did alot better, but can someone point out to me how I lost my lead? What was it that I didnt do?

Me vs Slox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a90G-IkKkNQ I asked the question before about how I get in with a dash attack because lasers piss me off, but as I was watching Armada's videos, alot of times he starts the combo while calling a tech with a dash attack, so maybe I need to do that. I also realized the my Oos game is only attacks OOS and no WD back like I should be doing. My approaches also are lacking. If someone can go in depth on some of these things, I would appreciate it c:

Edit: I was getting hit by alot of Falco dairs= I should probably get into the habit of pointing my shield towards the top of falco for that reason.

 

[crush]

#bengrimmnation

 

[R3N0]

This thread amuses me so!

Ryobeat, I don't main peach, but I feel like I have good fundamentals! Find me next time and we'll do some peach dittos if you want.

Jayk, from my experience as a sheik player... I get beat out when I try to challenge Peach Bair a lot. Also the classic float backwards preemptive Fair gets me a lot too when I'm being too aggressive.

For the most part, if you keep pulling turnips and being patient.. you should be alright. Look for opportunity off of your turnips. Don't randomly downsmash too much, and look out for sheik Bair. Know the spacing of sheik fair on your shield so you know whether or not to wavedash out of your shield or nair of out of your shield.

That's my two cents.

Ben Grimm, have some humility. These guys sass you because you too are a keyboard warrior. Except the other girls on the peach boards are sassier and have been doing it for much much longer than you.

Toodles.

 

[DoH]

I've been a ***** since 1987

#dynastyrealness

 

[aztec smacher]

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=/....I did not know u can do that whith a stitch : D... poor dorf

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=JR4KH4MvCKM

 

[The Irish Mafia]

you misunderstand
I'm not criticizing you for dsmashing, I'm criticizing you for being a quintessential peach player, which means knowing this game in the context of only this character.
Believe you me, you have one of the scarier dsmashes I've played against, you do it when it stabs and you make me fear it, but you're playing to your strategy. That's the strategy of peach, which has a gaping distance from the strategy of most of the cast. Keep in mind, i'm saying it's EXACTLY WHAT I DID TO WIN, so I have respect for it, lol. Not everyone's gonna view it as outplaying the opponent, and you know what? That includes me. But if it gets you the win, then it really doesn't matter what I, or anyone on this website, thinks or says.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm curious as to how someone can win without outplaying their opponent. I never quite understood that concept (not trying to a smartass here, genuinely curious), but it seems like, barring extreme circumstances (someone suiciding almost every stock or being on the losing end of a severely jaded matchup (Roy vs ICs, for example), if you win, it's generally evident that you outplayed your opponent.

Or perhaps it's more about the fact that, at the level where "quintessential Peach" works, it's more about who is playing less terribly than it is about who outplays who?

Ryobeat, I watched it and if you want I can write out my thoughts. Something that stuck out to me was you often shielded in very bad spots in the ditto (being trapped at the ledge or when he held a turnip).

 

[Ryobeat]

Id be glad if you wrote your thoughts . Point out the parts where I shielded like that.

 

[john!]

Wow you are all judgmental pricks. Most of the people on here dont know me and when i say that i mean never met me before so its cool you have decided to be ****s for no good reason. I guess you all just like being keyboard warriors.

So lets make a deal you guys never mention or talk about me on the peach boards and i wont post on the peach boards, since you all seem to hate me for no good reason and i dont feel like/have the time to deal with all of the drama you guys want to cause

have you ever been around a clique of high school girls?

 

[Ryobeat]

have you ever been around a clique of high school girls?

LOLOLOLOLOL.

Edit: As funny as that is, can we get back to Peach discussion. I WANT TO LEARN. Not laugh at drama

 

[Strong Badam]

please
most of us are college-aged

 

[MacD]

some of us are even older :/

god good, i've been playing competitively for over 6 years. now that's scary

EDIT: i started in Dec of '06 but didn't make an account until OC3 because my friend just told us everything at first

WTF is the point of having an "edit reason" if it's not going to show up omg

 

[Anand]

It shows up. It doesn't show up if your edit doesn't change the actual message though.

 

[R3N0]

I literally picked up the game in Feb 06' and went competitive 07'. Hype.