Value of Religion

[GreenKirby]

No, religion does need to vanish from the world. Millions of people have been murdered in the name of religion or faith. This can no longer be tolerated.

I don't get this logic. People also have been killed due to nationality, race, and sexuality.

So we should all just become bisexual Latinos atheists from Thailand?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No, it just means that nationalism, racism and sexism need to disappear as well.

 

[Alphicans]

I don't get this logic. People also have been killed due to nationality, race, and sexuality.

So we should all just become bisexual Latinos atheists from Thailand?

I don't get why so many people have made similar conclusions about what other people have said in this thread. THIS DOES NOT FOLLOW FROM THE STATEMENT YOU QUOTED. Why did you think it did?

 

[Yodery]

There is no logical explanation for God, and there never will be. God just is and always will be. You may not be able to physically see God, but you can see the changes he has caused in someone's life.

There is no logical explanation for the invisible pink unicorn next to me. The invisible pink unicorn next to me just is and always will be. You may not be able to physically see the invisible pink unicorn next to me, but you can see the changes it has caused in my life.

Nomesayin'?

 

[GwJ]

I see what you did there, mate.

 

[Jon Farron]

There is no logical explanation for the invisible pink unicorn next to me. The invisible pink unicorn next to me just is and always will be. You may not be able to physically see the invisible pink unicorn next to me, but you can see the changes it has caused in my life.

Nomesayin'?

You hate me. -.-

 

[GwJ]

It's not that he hates you (although I won't speak for him lol), it's that your argument was so weak that it crumbles apart merely from LOOKING at it.

By the by, are you still working on that thread? I forget the exact topic, but you were going to make some religion-themed thread.

 

[Yodery]

I don't hate anyone tbh imo js fyi

 

[Jon Farron]

.

By the by, are you still working on that thread? I forget the exact topic, but you were going to make some religion-themed thread.

Yes, I finished it a few days ago. Not sure if I still wanna post it though... I'll just get ganged up on.

 

[Yodery]

Nobody's gonna gang up on you dude. If anyone says something out of line, it'll get reported anyway.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Refraining from speaking out due to fear of not having an opinion aligned with the majority is a rather poor reason. Even if it wasn't aligned with anyone else, it doesn't matter.

 

[GwJ]

I mean, if I had to guess, I'd say it's going to get ripped apart. But that's my guess and nobody's gonna know how strong your arguments are until you make them.

 

[Yodery]

You gotta run, run, run, run, ruuuuun, taaaake a drag or two.

But yeah I'm only in this for the lulz. I look forward to this new thread tbh.

 

[Kal]

I mean, if I had to guess, I'd say it's going to get ripped apart. But that's my guess and nobody's gonna know how strong your arguments are until you make them.

If the discussion is philosophical in nature, I doubt he'll get ripped apart. It will just be an enjoyable, engaging discussion about, well, nothing.

But I recall him mentioning some evidence that Evolution is false. I would bet that would get ripped to shreds.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

White Mage, STOP ACTING AS IF EVERY REASONABLE ARGUMENT AGAINST RELIGION IS AN ATTEMPT TO SPREAD HATRED AGAINST YOU OR TO GANG UP ON YOU!!! It's seriously annoying the hell out of me [and others] because you make it personal matter and put yourself in a pathetic victim-stance, as if that justified your lack of reasoning. You can make the thread or not but saying "you'll probably get ganged up for it" is exactly why hardly anybody tries to debate with you anymore.

You gotta run, run, run, run, ruuuuun, taaaake a drag or two.

This kid knows what's up though!

 

[Yodery]

 

[Mr. game and watch]

WhiteMage I got your back.

I'm a bit rusty, but I'm probably still a level 100 online atheist debator. Heh.
But no seriously post the thread you will not be alone.

 

[GreenKirby]

Yes, I finished it a few days ago. Not sure if I still wanna post it though... I'll just get ganged up on.

You give the implication that morality comes from religion. Which doesn't exactly hold ground due to the fact that all of the dominant religions haven't been around that long in human history.

It came off as thinking if you're not religious, you can become morally compromising rather easy.

 

[Yodery]

It's like, if the only thing stopping you from going out on a killing spree right now is some bronze-age book and some sky daddy, then I recommend a therapist.

Immediately, pronto, and as soon as possible.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

This entire page is people debating at nothing. Well, not even debating really.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

This page is full of trolling. Close thread IMO.


Actually, Christianity derives from Judaism and Judaism theoretically started day 1 of the existence of the earth.

 

[Ussi]

Jews believe thier religion started at the beginning of man or start of the earth when there was no man to follow judaism?

...

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Well.

From a jew's point of view, Judiasm started with... I guess Abraham. Maybe Moses.

Or maybe Adam and Eve, which would be day 6 of the earths existence.

Based off the bible the earth was formed in 4 days, animals/insects were made day 5, and man was made day 6, while day 7 was a day of rest.

However Moses received the Law from God.
And Abraham received the covenant that through him a new nation would be born(Israel) and all nations would be blessed(Jesus)

But then Jacob's family started Israel, Jacob was called Israel and all his 12 sons were the names of the 12 tribes of Israel.

I don't really know at which point Judaism really started, but it was probably under one of those instances.

 

[Yobolight]

First time in the proving grounds (Woohoo)

I didn't bother to read the whole thread, but as a student of philosophy and an agnostic atheist I would love to converse with some theists about religion.

Basically my first question for a follower of any Abrahamic religion (I don't mean to discriminate against other religions, they simply fall outside my area of expertise) is:
Do you take your holy book (Quran, Torah, Bible) to be divinely inspired and therefore literally true?

If so, do you feel threatened by the finding of scientific inquiry over the past 300 years in general, and the past 50 years in particular? (evolutionary biology, geology, astrophysics, neuroscience, etc...)

or

If you do not take your respective scriptures to be literally true, what motivates you to assume a religious identity? Do you think reinterpreting your religion in accordance with secular social norms is an intellectually honest act?

Feel free to critique me if you feel I have misrepresented you. I am willing to engage in multiple dialogues simultaneously

Obviously we will keep this fun .

 

[Jon Farron]

First time in the proving grounds (Woohoo)

I didn't bother to read the whole thread, but as a student of philosophy and an agnostic atheist I would love to converse with some theists about religion.

Basically my first question for a follower of any Abrahamic religion (I don't mean to discriminate against other religions, they simply fall outside my area of expertise) is:
Do you take your holy book (Quran, Torah, Bible) to be divinely inspired and therefore literally true?

I do believe the Bible is "divinely inspired" and take what's meant to be literal, literally. With a few time-specific exceptions, like eating pork or catfish. During those times, they did not have the knowledge or equipment to realize the dangers of eating those things. Modern science has revealed the parasites and diseases you can get that are fatal from eating these things that were undercooked. However in the New testament, some of the Kosher laws no longer applied. (I forgot why, I'll have to go look again)

If so, do you feel threatened by the finding of scientific inquiry over the past 300 years in general, and the past 50 years in particular? (evolutionary biology, geology, astrophysics, neuroscience, etc...)

I'm curious as to what you're referring to with the geology, astrophysics, and neuroscience.

Biologically speaking, I do not feel threatened at all. If anything it has revealed how next to impossible it is for something to evolve into another species. There is a lot of mutations required to happen. Mutations are almost always never beneficial to the organism, and rarely passed down. You also have chromosomal structures/numbers which are a problem. Some mutations cause extra chromosomes, or missing chromosomes, which would render the organism unable to reproduce with another organism because they wouldn't match up. Different species can mate, but cannot reproduce. For example, a dog and a cat cannot breed because of the chromosomal difference, if they DID mate (which actually isn't as rare as people would think), the sperm would literally be unable to fertilize the eggs. A male human with a genetic mutation that has an added X or Y chromosome on top of the usual XY would not be able to reproduce.

Do you think reinterpreting your religion in accordance with secular social norms is an intellectually honest act?

I do not believe this is honest, or even correct. Most churches these days have twisted scripture to make it say what they want it to say, along with the some of the new translations of the Bible. Many words have been taken out and added in that completely changes what the original sentence said.

The Emerging Church movement has taken over America and has taken the Bible out, replacing it with entertainment. Instead of trying to stay out of the world like were are supposed to, they embrace the culture. Instead of teaching Biblical sermons, they teach Bible-based sermons. There is a difference. If you were to walk into a modern church today, it would be spiritually dry and empty. They have sold out to draw people in for money. It's not any different than a social club. My family has seen once amazing churches give in to the Emerging Church and become dry. It's sad, really.

I would go on more about the Emerging Church but I think it would derail the topic....

 

[Holder of the Heel]

So divine revelation is less intelligent than modern science? Interesting.

And religion is constantly and has constantly been bent towards the moral zeitgeist of the times. What has been accepted from the Bible has been constantly changing with history to be more similar to the present culture. If it didn't adapt in such a way, it wouldn't be around like it is today.

 

[Ussi]

Modern science so far has proven the Qur'an to be true, as i said earlier in this thread.

Yes i believe the Qur'an is divinely inspired as well. I also believe the bible and torah were as well, but have been distorted by their followers.

 

[Kal]

Modern science so far has proven the Qur'an to be true, as i said earlier in this thread.

Do you care to elaborate on this?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Do you care to elaborate on this?

He posted a link about it earlier. Basically, a bunch of metaphors and allusions taken from the Qur'an are selectively interpreted in a manner that they vaguely resemble scientific claims. That is the "prove" he's talking about.