Utah Thread - Dead thread is dead

[lengeta]

Layne I am sorry.....Melee is not infinitely better than these fighting games. Melee can't even survive a ****ty sequel like Brawl whilst Street Sighter II:Turbo has survived....gee.....over a decade of amazing sequels? Street fighter is more then "get combos and reset" like you say it is. Do not get me wrong. I love Melee to hell, but SF is superior in every way. You see....in Melee you get a kill and just try to out camp them. The whole stock system just creates hundreds of camping problems. In street Fighter there is no where to run and no where to hide= no camping. In fact the camping you see in street fighter is called turtling. Because you can't turn around and run for it. You have to face the music and out zone and predict your opponent. For that reason....I think street fighter presents much more intense tourney matches because even at 1% you can still control the match 100% and at the same time you cant run away. You obviously have no idea what you are capable of doing in 3S or how the game is played. So saying its boring when you lack experience with the game is just flat out madness I tell you and that also applies to all fighters.

You're right, I have no experience with SF3a, I've never actually played any of the 3rd series, just 2. However, we are two very different people with different tastes. I'm not one to judge a game based on how balanced it is, or how deep the meta-gameplay is. For me, it's about two things: how it feels and its atmosphere. Melee doesn't have that great an atmosphere, by that I mean things like art style and story. What Melee does have is probably the best control feel in any game ever. It's fast, you're extremely mobile, and you can dazzle opponents to death with awesome chasing while still being able to out-maneuver other opponents who know what their doing. It it all feels sooo good imputing that into the controller. Melee hit my style of gameplay dead in the gut, and has blown away every other fighter I've ever touched.

It might not be the "best" fighter in terms of what a fighting game ought to be, it's the best fighter in terms of what I personally want. And it's way ahead of anything else.

::EDIT::
And there are a lot of Street Fighters. A LOT. Smash Bros. is only on it's third, and they're not doing the "Smash Bros. Melee Turbo", "Smash Bros. Melee Alpha", and "Smash Bros. Melee Alpha Turbo" kinda thing. Brawl is doing phenomenally well if you look outside this community, and the next one could still completely revive everything this community wants. Brawl has more than survived a shi**y sequel.

::EDIT EDIT::
And now I realized I misread you slightly about the surviving sequels. Melee has never been considered a serious game by the fighting game community. It's not that Melee hasn't survived, it's that it's never been there. Smash's community was/is vastly different (and better [and larger] ) than other fighting games. There are still 64 players. But the bulk of this community has moved on, and that's not what happened with Street Fighter. Its community stuck with that one particular version, ours has split, and Melee is on the minority's side.

 

[Junpappy]

In street Fighter there is no where to run and no where to hide= no camping. In fact the camping you see in street fighter is called turtling.

You really ought to proofread your posts when they're that long and/or supposed to be persuasive. Anyways, Melee is a better VIDEO game than other fighting games. It may not be better according to people who are more familiar with other games, but after playing Melee I can honestly say **** you to any fighting game and not look back because platforms and the concepts of edge guarding and recovering are something that I know no other major fighting game has.

 

[lengeta]

You can also hide behind your low-kick, and camp that one spot your at. You don't need a particular place to be able to hide and camp, you just need a really ******** moveset to make approaching you a huge disadvantage.

 

[Gojira]

because platforms and the concepts of edge guarding and recovering are something that I know no other major fighting game has.

I second that.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

We all really should get into GG. That'll set us up for BlazBlue when that comes out.

Man, **** BlazBlue. GG is amazing.

You can also hide behind your low-kick, and camp that one spot your at. You don't need a particular place to be able to hide and camp, you just need a really ******** moveset to make approaching you a huge disadvantage.

Huh, sounds just like Brawl to me.

Anyway, I seriously suggest GG to anyone that likes SSBM. Combos don't get too ridiculously long (most characters that aren't named Slayer can't take more than half a life with any given combo, unless they have tension/something AMAZING due to massive damage scaling. 1/2 life=1 stock in Melee =O!), there's a way to get outta combos, you can air tech outta sloppy combos, and the pressure/speed of that game is pretty **** close to Melee's level. It's a hell of a lot more balanced, too.

Only thing it really is missing is edgeguarding, and teams. Well, platforms, too, I guess. Still, it controls every bit as smoothly as Melee, if not moreso.

SSBM is good, but it died. Maybe if all the Melee players could move to one state, it would be worth practicing for. Mebbe if we lived in Maryland/Virginia, it would. But we don't, so it isn't, in my opinion. Play it if you're playing just to have a good time, but as far as a good competitive game goes, Melee's time in the sun is a thing of the past. It's ******* follow-up made sure of that.

Don't get me wrong, either. Brawl is a great party game. But that's just it. Right as Smash was beginning to be taken seriously as a fighter, Brawl stepped in and stepped down.

GGs, Sakurai, no rm.

 

[Gojira]

You can also hide behind your low-kick, and camp that one spot your at. You don't need a particular place to be able to hide and camp, you just need a really ******** moveset to make approaching you a huge disadvantage.

Do that and watch yourself lose 25% of your life.

 

[lengeta]

Do that and watch yourself lose 25% of your life.

I'm taking in generalizations, but I've watched a lot of high-level ST3 play. That back-and-forth movement used to play range and start a combo is the exact definition to camping/turtling/hiding in my book. SF matches are incredibly boring to watch, especially if you don't understand the perfect blocking and can't appreciate things like Daigo vs Justin Wong comeback. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying I don't like it. Games shouldn't reward playing 100% conservatively, they should reward players who take the risks. Deep meta-game can ruin a game just as easily as they can improve it.

::EDIT::
(man I'm posting a lot today...)
My intention isn't to rag on Street Fighter, it is a really good game. I just think Melee's more fun and interesting.

 

[Yamer]

Anyone live in or close to Logan, ut?

 

[Gojira]

Anyone live in or close to Logan, ut?

lol poor yamer

 

[Minato]

Man, **** BlazBlue. GG is amazing.

I love GG, but I'm also giving BlazBlue a chance. Characters are different but it still plays like Guilty Gear to me with different characters. I'm not implying that I want GG to be replaced if that's what you thought.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Oh, didn't know you played it.

 

[FoxTheStampede]

Anyone live in or close to Logan, ut?

The only people I would know of would Flamestrike and whoever he plays with, but nobody has heard from him in ages, and he really didn't do much while he was here.

 

[C!Z]

I'm taking in generalizations, but I've watched a lot of high-level ST3 play. That back-and-forth movement used to play range and start a combo is the exact definition to camping/turtling/hiding in my book. SF matches are incredibly boring to watch, especially if you don't understand the perfect blocking and can't appreciate things like Daigo vs Justin Wong comeback. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying I don't like it. Games shouldn't reward playing 100% conservatively, they should reward players who take the risks. Deep meta-game can ruin a game just as easily as they can improve it.

.

I completely agree. I watched a bunch of SF3S vids and that's all high level play is... Camping. Not as deep of form of camping as what you consider the word camping is but all they due is move back and forth in the exact same area all game and try to get an opening for the same combos everytime. It can have it's amazing moments too but how can you compare automated combos to ones you make up yourself and can go anywhere? I love SF's but they are nothing compared to Melee. It's a class of it's own. Platforms, teching, DI, egdeguarding, endless combos can be made. There's too many additional skills in Melee, it's so free and that's the best part. No other 2d game will compare to it. For all you that say it's dying that's just cuz you haven't given people enough time to switch back. I've already seen quite a difference from when it first came out.

Yamer do you play Melee still?

 

[-Final-]

Aw ****, I'm busy this saturday.

Is anyone here planning on going to the Playntrade tourney tomorrow?

 

[Dark Ryu]

I completely agree. I watched a bunch of SF3S vids and that's all high level play is... Camping. Not as deep of form of camping as what you consider the word camping is but all they due is move back and forth in the exact same area all game and try to get an opening for the same combos everytime. It can have it's amazing moments too but how can you compare automated combos to ones you make up yourself and can go anywhere? I love SF's but they are nothing compared to Melee. It's a class of it's own. Platforms, teching, DI, egdeguarding, endless combos can be made. There's too many additional skills in Melee, it's so free and that's the best part. No other 2d game will compare to it. For all you that say it's dying that's just cuz you haven't given people enough time to switch back. I've already seen quite a difference from when it first came out.

Yamer do you play Melee still?

combos aren't automatically there in SF either... you make them up yourself as well.

 

[Gojira]

I completely agree. I watched a bunch of SF3S vids and that's all high level play is... Camping. Not as deep of form of camping as what you consider the word camping is but all they due is move back and forth in the exact same area all game and try to get an opening for the same combos everytime. It can have it's amazing moments too but how can you compare automated combos to ones you make up yourself and can go anywhere? I love SF's but they are nothing compared to Melee. It's a class of it's own. Platforms, teching, DI, egdeguarding, endless combos can be made. There's too many additional skills in Melee, it's so free and that's the best part. No other 2d game will compare to it. For all you that say it's dying that's just cuz you haven't given people enough time to switch back. I've already seen quite a difference from when it first came out.

Yamer do you play Melee still?

C!Z.....that is not camping. Do me a favor. Watch Forward(Fox) vs Boss(jigglypuff) That is camping.Not campinghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok7_6j93KgA

If you want a high level play tourney set with no camping.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYnlCx8fO8I&feature=related
(take note at 5:35-5:44)
P.S. Chun Li is not known for huge combo strings but her amazingly fast speed.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Or PC v Vidjo.

 

[C!Z]

C!Z.....that is not camping. Do me a favor. Watch Forward(Fox) vs Boss(jigglypuff) That is camping.Not campinghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok7_6j93KgA

I.

Lol you're bringing up a couple matches. How often do you ever actually see that?

combos aren't automatically there in SF either... you make them up yourself as well.

I was just talkin about the Super Moves. I've never cared for anything like that either.


Another thing Smash has is percentages, makes your knowledge of the game so useful knowing which hit will hit which character best for comboing at what percentage. Smash FTW

 

[Gojira]

Lol you're bringing up a couple matches. How often do you ever actually see that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHfpw-NJyfw
It happened in every OC2 and OC3 match I watched. It also happened hundreds of times at your smash Fest.

I was just talkin about the Super Moves. I've never cared for anything like that either.

Super moves(Super Arts in 3S) are nothing but solid good hits.....thats all they are.

Another thing Smash has is percentages, makes your knowledge of the game so useful knowing which hit will hit which character best for comboing at what percentage. Smash FTW

C!Z, that is honestly only a restriction if anything. In 3S you have zero restrictions and you have access to all combo strings no matter what their health is at. Keeping all options open from 100%-1% life.

 

[YazYaz]

Melee FTW.
Ciz wins.

 

[Junpappy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHfpw-NJyfw
It happened in every OC2 and OC3 match I watched. It also happened hundreds of times at your smash Fest.

You complain about projectile camping because you're Bowser. If you were a high tier or top tier character, skill would beat projectile camping any day of the week (yes, even LASERS!!!!ZOMG!!)

Super moves(Super Arts in 3S) are nothing but solid good hits.....thats all they are.

This statement neither explains anything about Super Arts nor does it show a perspective that justifies their place in a competitive fighting game

C!Z, that is honestly only a restriction if anything. In 3S you have zero restrictions and you have access to all combo strings no matter what their health is at. Keeping all options open from 100%-1% life.

Percentages are more of a balancing feature than a restriction. Without percentages, chain throws become infinites, kill moves become virtually nonexistent, and combos are what become restricted instead of opportunities for combos. It's pointless to compare the combo systems of the two because of how radically different they are in terms of game mechanics. Some games aren't for some people. If you like 3S more than Melee thats your choice. But you have to realize that a lot of the things you're saying are a matter of opinion, not fact.


Melee FTW

 

[Ken Neth]

Owned - Yaz

 

[FoxTheStampede]

Zeal, what is the preferred version of Guilty Gear, and what is the online play like?

 

[Gojira]

You complain about projectile camping because you're Bowser. If you were a high tier or top tier character, skill would beat projectile camping any day of the week (yes, even LASERS!!!!ZOMG!!)

Me playing Bowser has nothing to do with my view on camping. Did you even watch the match I linked? Just asking.

This statement neither explains anything about Super Arts nor does it show a perspective that justifies their place in a competitive fighting game

You are right it doesn't. However, I was just saying..."They are nothing but good solid hits" because thats really what they are. C!Z was the one that stated an opinion about them, I stated a fact..

Percentages are more of a balancing feature than a restriction. Without percentages, chain throws become infinites, kill moves become virtually nonexistent, and combos are what become restricted instead of opportunities for combos. It's pointless to compare the combo systems of the two because of how radically different they are in terms of game mechanics. Some games aren't for some people. If you like 3S more than Melee thats your choice. But you have to realize that a lot of the things you're saying are a matter of opinion, not fact.
Melee FTW

Yeah. You cant really compare the damage system of these two games. This part is really opinion like you say.


Also...how long till the crew battle is done?

nvm about the CB

 

[Ken Neth]

Me playing Bowser has nothing to do with my view on camping. Did you even watch the match I linked? Just asking.

I watched it. That link lead to a vid called Pyrolee (Yun) vs Nuki (Chun Li) match 1. Not exactly Forward vs Boss

 

[InterimOfZeal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tpj70U4_IY

Because infinites are totally as gay as fthrow>jab reset>death at 11% AFTER DAMAGE!

No, srsly tho, Mango is gay.

FTS, Accent Core is the preferred version (GGXXAC, lulz). I haven't played online, but for most technical fighters, I wouldn't suggest playing online. Seriously, you have 2 frames to do some FRCs. Having one frame of lag could be the difference between a BnB/Amazing combo, and you getting owned.

If you want a PC fighter, get into Melty Blood, Act Candenza Ver B. That's what I'm starting soon. It's like GG for dummies.

 

[Junpappy]

Here's the crew battle from S@G3fest

Utah's Team Broken vs Mexi Brigade

....man I suck at crew battles lol

 

[FoxTheStampede]

I watched it. That link lead to a vid called Pyrolee (Yun) vs Nuki (Chun Li) match 1. Not exactly Forward vs Boss

That vid was supposed to be a good example of how camping doesn't happen in 3S. It says "not camping" right before it. The quality of the vid is terrible tho.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re9atJfNfpQ
Better example with much better quality

 

[Minato]

I don't even think GGXXAC has online to begin with.

 

[YazYaz]

I vote Phil mvp for the crew battle.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Yaz needs to FC nair more, and fair less. Also, bthrow EVERY TIME when near the edge, unless setting up for a CG. Seriously, it does 11%, and Peach can edgeguard hella good. Still, pretty decent speed, could just be a touch more aggro, esp against Bowser.

I think I can sum up Ryu in one word. "Hup". Sidestep less, prs. ALSO, USE THE **** NEEDLES! THEY'RE SOOOOO GOOD, ESPECIALLY ON YS AND BF. SUPER CEREAL, HERE!

I wanna go to UT now. Ferdi's the only one that still plays Melee in CO, and we never meet up. D:

 

[C!Z]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tpj70U4_IY

Because infinites are totally as gay as fthrow>jab reset>death at 11% AFTER DAMAGE!

No, srsly tho, Mango is gay.

.

Once again this can be prevented so it was the other players error. You can roll out of jab resets, you can also DI up so you immediately stand up instead of slowly getting up. Mango just took advantage.

I also would like to point out I suck *** in crews lol

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Anything can be avoided in any game. If you didn't make mistakes, you wouldn't be hit or comboed.

Also, if a Fox player didn't make mistakes, Marth would become obsolete as a Fox counter. Infinites galore.

You can tech roll before the jab reset, or buffer a roll before it, but once it occurs, you can't do anything. And have you seen mango? Slow wake-up or fast, he knows when to rest. Expecting someone to react to something that quick when they don't see it coming is HELLA unrealistic. Especially since there were all of two good Jiggs players in the nation. DIing her uthrow below 20% on reaction without predicting it is also something that VERY few players can do on reaction. We're talking about humans, not robots.

Even then, M2K is arguably a robot in disguise, and he messed up on that one.

 

[YangFuShang]

i crew battle needed more marth dittos. btw dai-a is pretty **** good. Also FTS people play guilty gear accent core and use the ps2 version

 

[~S@G3~]

hey we are here woot woot woooooot

 

[C!Z]

You can tech roll before the jab reset, or buffer a roll before it, but once it occurs, you can't do anything. And have you seen mango?.

You are very wrong sir. You can roll once the jab reset happens you just hafta be holdin the direction prior. Yes he's amazing.

 

[harpuia190]

hey guys not to ruin your chat or anything but today's my birthday, thought you should all know

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Shut up, Harp!

Jk, happy bday.

You are very wrong sir. You can roll once the jab reset happens you just hafta be holdin the direction prior. Yes he's amazing.

I did say buffer the roll, didn't I?

 

[C!Z]

Never heard buffer before. Also if I thought that was what you meant there you wouldn't have argued that I said you could roll out of the reset.

 

[Rhokk]

The reason I prefer Smash over SF is essentially in the moves. Smash is the only game I know of where depending on when you do a move, it will react differently. Whereas in SF all the moves react exactly the same all the time, no matter what the conditions are. A low kick will act like a low kick, etc. So basically, the same reason that Panda plays Smash, is my reason. Funny, eh?

Edit: Also, there's got to be something wrong with a game where you can spend years mastering every aspect of it, and still be beaten by somebody randomly smashing buttons..