Usmash killing percents on everyone.

[demodemo]

i don't see sheik jumping zelda, but bowser and ike should definitely be below sheik. i don't see how bowser could be higher than sheik in the tier list..

i think peach is going up, not sure about luigi.

anyway, we are way offtopic x_x

 

[-Mars-]

Bowser is good in this game, I don't think you realize how good he actually is. Peach should be in high tier, she gives a good amount of the top tier problems(DDD anyone?). Wolf or Pit may drop out of high with Toon Link and Olimar jumping up to high. Zelda is definitely moving down, she has too many problems with camping and she's horrible at approaching anyways.

Lol, yes we are way off topic.

 

[Zankoku]

Yup, I want sheik old fame back basically....which will most likely never happen really but hey I can dream.

Old fame? Like how there were only either one or two Sheik players who ever made top 32 in major tournaments?

 

[~Train Heartnet~]

nope... never give up...always follow you're dreams ^-^

 

[Flamingo]

nope... never give up...always follow you're dreams ^-^

I am inspired now.

 

[<π]

Luigi and bowser are good but they are also underestimated big time, if thier communities start stepping it up you could definitely see them rise.
Peach is going up next time around she is crazy good and will only keep getting better one people understand her.

Sheik is very very good no one is representing her though in tournements at all. She does well against a larger portion of the cast has so many options regardless of where she is on stage. Tilt locks on a lot of the better characters is even easier to fall into than chain grabs and most of these locks lead directly to a kill 100% of the time.
Needles.
Zelda's disjointed hit boxes and out of shield ops make her a great killer in general for sheik.

But I know zelda is going to drop a lot next time. No approach, horrible projectile (don't care what anyone says) and way too easy to camp even with Love.

 

[Flamingo]

Luigi and bowser are good but they are also underestimated big time, if thier communities start stepping it up you could definitely see them rise.
Peach is going up next time around she is crazy good and will only keep getting better one people understand her.

Sheik is very very good no one is representing her though in tournements at all. She does well against a larger portion of the cast has so many options regardless of where she is on stage. Tilt locks on a lot of the better characters is even easier to fall into than chain grabs and most of these locks lead directly to a kill 100% of the time.
Needles.
Zelda's disjointed hit boxes and out of shield ops make her a great killer in general for sheik.

But I know zelda is going to drop a lot next time. No approach, horrible projectile (don't care what anyone says) and way too easy to camp even with Love.

Well said, my friend. Finally, someone understands Sheik

 

[Tristan_win]

<3 You just about summed up everything I would and could say about the future tier list and the fact you are a broomer warms my heart to see you say that.

Anyways everyone you should semi ignore the % listed in this thread as the testing was done in training mode and attacks have more knock back in 1v1....Which is more of a positive thing really as this means sheik better at killing then originally outlined in this thread.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Old fame? Like how there were only either one or two Sheik players who ever made top 32 in major tournaments?

Exactly this, I could never understand how under used Shiek was. She's basically the Melee equivalent of MK.

 

[Zankoku]

She pretty much ate the top spots all day during the early years of Melee. Her metagame was relatively straightforward, though, and as Fox and Falco developed and became more popular, Sheik's worst matchups dominating the brackets pretty much led to her being not the greatest choice any more. Marth, being played by the top player for practically all of Melee (Ken in the early days until '06 when he went on hiatus, then Mew2King after that point) became a pretty good choice due to his relatively decent matchups against Fox and Falco and the sudden drop of Sheiks. However, this still doesn't make Sheik completely unseen. She was used quite a bit in counterpicking due to her automatic **** matchups.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Hmm I suppose, the only thing that held her back were spacies and Fox : Shiek in my mind was only 55:45. I thought the Marth increase would have caused a Shiek increase in correlation too thanks to her being his worst matchup (or did people decide that was CF?).

 

[Tristan_win]

Okay, I'm demanding thank you when I fully upgrade this thread

As I'm not only redoing all the testing but I'm also going to test what % it kill with nearly perfect DI.

Yes, I'm going to test to see how long every character lives when they properly DI the tipper usmash hit, quickly use their fastest starting/ending aerial into fast fall.

Before I went to work this morning I got DK who's specs are the following

No DI
95% (in training mode he dies at 100%)

With nearly perfect DI he will die at it's either 108 or 109%.

For some odd reason six times in a row foxes fully weaken neutral B would magically do 2% damage when DK reached 107 so I have yet to test 108%.

I guess I'll start using Lucario since at 0% he does 1/2 a damage per pummel..so I hear.

BTW that took me a hour to do -,- because of all the do overs I had to do with the "nearly perfect DI" as I went up in %s

 

[Palpi]

We love you Trisstan. Pre-thank you!

 

[S2]

Yeah, this is a great topic. Keep up the good work.

 

[Villi]

oh **** i hope you saved it

 

[Tristan_win]

Just letting you all know the % that usmash can kill is even lower then what's listed in the OP since these are all Training mode %.

On mario the differences is about 6%

so instead of the earliest % being 86 it's 80. The numbers seem to vary from there

Now if you excuse me I'm going to attempt to memorize all theses numbers.

 

[Blistering Speed]

So I hear Sheik has a four frame, large range attack which combo's into a move which kills at 96% on BOWSER.

****, Sheik can't kill for ****.

Just letting you all know the % that usmash can kill is even lower then what's listed in the OP since these are all Training mode %.

Look here:

The first number is the training mode kill percent. This number is higher than vs mode kill percent, but lower than good DI kill percent.

So in actuality, I think the numbers are a little higher Tristan.

*Edit* Thanks for the work Villi, it's appreciated.

 

[-Mars-]

Fantastic, great work Villi. Now I just need to work on always having my ftilt decayed. MK kills later than us in that matchup....thats scary.

Edit: oh and btw, someone should make a new reference thread and add some of this new stuff that's been coming in since StealthSushi seems to have lost any means of logging onto Smashboards.

 

[Voyeur]

Fantastic, great work Villi. Now I just need to work on always having my ftilt decayed. MK kills later than us in that matchup....thats scary.

Edit: oh and btw, someone should make a new reference thread and add some of this new stuff that's been coming in since StealthSushi seems to have lost any means of logging onto Smashboards.

I actually was already making a new reference thread since I noticed his last log in date was really behind when I helped rinoH type up the new Q&A.
I'll just save myself a post then and post and work on all I have when it's finalized.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Sheik kills pretty quick; didn't know this, lol

 

[<π]

ironically she has one of the strongest kill moves in the game...

 

[Judo777]

ironically she has one of the strongest kill moves in the game...

Like top ten upward if ur opponent doesnt DI into the second hit.

 

[riocosta123]

Could we get side usmash data too?

 

[<π]

unward kill moves are the best ones.
side usmash is also actually pretty strong. one of her strongest kill moves.

 

[riocosta123]

Yeah, I remember that it's stronger than a fresh dsmash but I forget by how much.

 

[<π]

you know whats crazy strong? super sweet bair... omg.

http://www.youtube.com/user/LessThanPi#p/u/13/lFcmujjqUts

if yall haven't seen it alternate hit boxes.