USB Gecko is the new Action Replay! (added potential goals)

[Foxy]

Not sure if this post will even be read or seriously noticed, but I want to say that this is the project my friend and I have been working on since weeks after release. It became clear soon, after hours and hours of devoted competitive play, that Brawl will not live up to anything. The game is fantastic, but it simply has NO SKILL GAP, or a very small one. Why? There isn't much to learn; cheezing out with spam wins.

So we started researching any ways to mod Brawl, to edit the ISO, anything... and we finally stumbled upon the same strategy listed here. It's a lot harder to do than you may make it sound, as far as we know (involving some careful work to get the de-encryption key, which is the same for Melee and Brawl, therefore you can use Melee's code to reverse-engineer Brawl, we figured).

Here's what we decided would be good to change:
1. Remove tripping.
2. Add l-cancelling.
3. Increase dash-dance range.
4. Increase grab range for all characters? Or do something about throw comboability.
5. Remove auto dash-cancelled usmash, require it to be JC'd.
6. Fix some stupid things about characters.
7. Increase ledgehog time (not necessarily invincibility time).
8. Increase hitstun.
And finally...
9. In the code, set online lag = 0.

Anyhow, if anybody is serious about working on these, get on contact with my friend GofG (aim: gofg467) to figure out if we can combine efforts.

 

[Bud]

^really? brawl is that messed up to you? thats a little extreme, and seems like you should seriously "go back to melee" if you want the game like that. Its your opinion and do what you want, but seriously, that is way to extreme to even be considered a legitimate thing to do to the game. Try to show a little respect to the smash developers and to the smash community; you act like there is a skill gap after only a short time of playing and you don't understand why? Im not even going to say it. The community has the power to develop brawl from what it started as, into a great competitive game. To think there is no potential to brawl to the extent you have set is probably the most over assumptive pro-melee/change brawl argument ive seen. Tripping maybe and hitstun maybe in small circles if it continues to be a problem, but what you described (like extended grab range??????) is pretty over the top. But do what you will and if its how you feel the game can reach competive-ness then go on, but you WILL never be able to pull all that off into a legitimate fighting game, its simply too much. Sorry to rant on you, but i felt the uncontrolled urge to reply to what I read, but it is only my opinion.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

All I would want is hitstun, no tripping, and l-canceling. The rest would be fine too I guess.

 

[Foxy]

^really? brawl is that messed up to you? thats a little extreme, and seems like you should seriously "go back to melee" if you want the game like that. Its your opinion and do what you want, but seriously, that is way to extreme to even be considered a legitimate thing to do to the game. Try to show a little respect to the smash developers and to the smash community; you act like there is a skill gap after only a short time of playing and you don't understand why? Im not even going to say it. The community has the power to develop brawl from what it started as, into a great competitive game. To think there is no potential to brawl to the extent you have set is probably the most over assumptive pro-melee/change brawl argument ive seen. Tripping maybe and hitstun maybe in small circles if it continues to be a problem, but what you described (like extended grab range??????) is pretty over the top. But do what you will and if its how you feel the game can reach competive-ness then go on, but you WILL never be able to pull all that off into a legitimate fighting game, its simply too much. Sorry to rant on you, but i felt the uncontrolled urge to reply to what I read, but it is only my opinion.

If Melee never existed, Brawl would be the most competitive fighter in the world right now. However, in its prequel's shadows, it is a competitive failure. I have over 1,000 online games and 600 offline games logged, and over 15 days of play time. I have studied this game in and out and have even discovered some things that nobody else knows about, and I can be sure that it isn't going anywhere competitively.

I would definitely support a small "patch" for Brawl, removing tripping and increasing hitstun, wholeheartedly. It would be light years of improvement. However, my personal project is to completely revamp the game, and give it a competitive overhaul (as close to Melee as possible). It really, really needs it. I was semi-pro at Melee, and even after going back to it and practicing for a few hours I can barely control my character.

I certainly don't mean to disrespect the developers. I have the greatest gratitude for Sakurai, as Brawl is one of the most perfect video games ever made. However, he said himself that he wanted "everyone to be a winner". He doesn't support competition. He made Melee the greatest competitive fighter of all time by a brilliant accident, and he corrected that accident with Brawl. And he did the job well, it's brilliant fun.

I appreciate all opinions, even rants, as Smash is really about community and everyone's vote counts. So don't worry about disagreeing with me. =]

 

[Bud]

im glad you can handle critisizm, ive got nearly that much play time, i just see it developing differently than melee, not worse but certainly different. As some have said though it sounds like everyother time someone says it (repeated) "melee had strong focus on technical skills (which takes time to master) and Brawl has strong focus on mental aspects (which also take time to develop ((but the fun is we get to develop another smash))) The mind games from what I can see are more prevalent: for example many matches end up coming down to a single blow for the kill, unlike melee which would usually end in a combo or clever edge grab. The single kill takes perfect timing if two smash masters are wanting that kill. I just think the game will move past the campy-ness (which it already has for me, is easy to beat now) and the fact that it does not contain as many "true combos" which are mostly memorized, more mental games will be prevailent (* in advanced play further down the road when the best brawl players get completely used to the engine like we did melee.) I guess im trying to say the best players, though having trouble against campers, will learn to beat it after a while and will get better at the game. As more people get comfortable with their own strategies will the metagame start to evolve around the "best ones". Cause we all know smash eventually turns into people copying all they can from the tourny winners. I do think that many of the great melee players won't be able to hang with the brawl pros because some of them are way too used to AT and have spent minimal time in mindgames and smart playing. Truly the only thing that will settle the argument is time, and we will see eventually where brawl stands, until then all we can do is sit here and ***** and complain at each other until that day comes.

 

[kirbstir]

And finally...
9. In the code, set online lag = 0.

Brilliant. Why haven't all online game programmers used the "set online lag = 0" command?

 

[Mario77]

Impracticle. Good Idea though.

This is almost worse than playing with high gravity and 1.2 damage ratio.

I would rather stick with playing Melee. Brawl is a lost cause and is just a party game that CAN be played competitively but blah blah u've heard all I'm saying.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

To the OP: I fully support this idea, and would be more than happy to help. Maybe we should get a forum or something going for people actually interested in doing this? I'd pick up the Gecko now and start learning coding, if you're serious.

Proposed changes: Random trip=0, increased hitstun, and shieldstun on certain moves. L-cancelling should NOT make it back in with these changes. Slight rebalancing for characters like CF and Ganon, that can never ever beat anyone decent, ever. The last suggestion is just an idea, of course.

We don't hack games to suit us in Competitive gaming. That's not playing the game as it was programmed, that's taking a game and re-shaping it in your own imagine. So this might work out great if we can hack the game to make it playable outside of tournaments, but the scene will not resort to hacking the game to make it playable.

If it isn't playable as it is programmed, then we just won't play it.

And Yuna makes his obligatory stupid post for the thread.

I will likely pm, but I would like to work on this. I am an experienced coder in 4 different languages, with specific emphasis on video game development.

I had been writing code for a smash brothers-like open fighting game engine, but this would take WAY less time.

please let me know if I can help.

Think you'd be willing to help a lowly no one understand coding?

 

[Loyal2NES]

1. Remove tripping.

Of course.

2. Add l-cancelling.

Even if this is possible, no. As i mentioned before, Brawl has finally made Heavy/Slow characters viable (or some of them at least) and L-Cancelling would HIDEOUSLY shift the balance of the game in their favor.

5. Remove auto dash-cancelled usmash, require it to be JC'd.

Considering how some people have been hailing it as "The New Wavedashing" and considering it the closest thing we have to advanced techniques, I'm pretty sure you'd have to back that modification up with nuclear-grade firepower.

6. Fix some stupid things about characters.

Not terribly specific, and would take a LOT of codes and even MORE time to test and such, but okay...

7. Increase ledgehog time (not necessarily invincibility time).

What, as in the thing where ledge-rolling in Melee made it impossible to grab the ledge till you were done rolling? I disagree here - Edgeguarding should not be so easy as a couple of gimp moves followed by rolling onto the stage.

8. Increase hitstun.

Yeah.

9. In the code, set online lag = 0.

It's a good thing you saved this one for last because this right here is a huge blow to your credibility.

 

[Bud]

^ lol, i would set the online lag to -3 just to be safe. But seriously he should have said take off all characters and maps that weren't in melee, and he would have described melee.

 

[DragonBlade]

It would be great to have as many people as possible working on the technical aspects. Right now I am still in the information gathering stages, and I encourage people interested to do the same. I am trying get in contact with a specific someone who knows far more about this than any of us, and depending on how he responds, I will decide how to start going about this.

Yes, I am planing to get a website up for this whole conspiracy to destroy Brawl we are plotting, don't worry. Maybe we'll even have one of those forum things and even an IRC channel (sounds cool, doesn't it?). One HUGE problem I've run into is, what are we going to call this project? I'm terrible at names. Consipiricy to Destroy Brawl We are Plotting (CtDBWaP) doesn't sound very good. Keep in mind, if it sounds too cool, then it will look like we actually know what we are doing. We don't want Sakurai to come down here with His Mighty Nerfbat of Impending Doom, do we? However, if it sounds too terrible, then we will look like a bunch of noobs. What is stopping us from giving up to go play Brawl at that point? Do you understand the crisis here?

(Ok, ok, truth is I have finals next week, so its unlikely I will make any progress on this, until after that, but we will still need a name.)

 

[Bud]

you could call it Brawlee, but seriously if you go to this and want to come back to brawl later, you will return with shame and a whores dignity....

 

[leafgreen386]

To the OP: I fully support this idea, and would be more than happy to help. Maybe we should get a forum or something going for people actually interested in doing this? I'd pick up the Gecko now and start learning coding, if you're serious.

Proposed changes: Random trip=0, increased hitstun, and shieldstun on certain moves. L-cancelling should NOT make it back in with these changes. Slight rebalancing for characters like CF and Ganon, that can never ever beat anyone decent, ever. The last suggestion is just an idea, of course.

These are the important ones. You nailed it right on the head. L-canceling, however nice, could really screw with some of the game's balance. Actually, scratch that. It would just make heavy characters viable in competitive play. Most aerial attacks can be used fine without L-canceling in brawl, and all it would really do is allow people to fast fall their aerials more often. If we change hitstun back to melee standards, putting back in a form of L-canceling might end up being important to stop characters like ganon getting COMPLETELY left behind, since they're basically in the same place they were before, but now they get combo'd by everyone. There are only two aerials that ganon cannot auto-cancel: nair and fair. Letting him cut his lag on these aerials (particularly fair) might actually give him a chance against all these characters who ALREADY have an advantage against him, but will now be comboing him even worse. Of course, whether or not L-canceling could even exist in any form in this game is questionable at best. They would've needed to have left in the coding for it, because even if we wanted, we can't just make a code that says "L-canceling exists" where there is no precedent. Really, I think that dashdancing would be a more game changing element on Sigma's list than L-canceling, which would bring back a form of play many of us are oh-too familiar with. At this point it starts becoming less of brawl, and more like melee 2.0. If this device is used to modify the game at all, the goal would need to be established beforehand, because presently, people's wants for this evidently span quite the range. Me? I don't care if this does go so far to create a melee 2.0, or only so far as to nerf camping. I loved melee, but no one plays it anymore, so I'm stuck playing brawl, which is comparatively boring. However, I'd be more than content just with a nerf on camping, and a push toward offensive play, which these "basic" changes would do.

1. Remove tripping.
2. Add l-cancelling.
3. Increase dash-dance range.
4. Increase grab range for all characters? Or do something about throw comboability.
5. Remove auto dash-cancelled usmash, require it to be JC'd.
6. Fix some stupid things about characters.
7. Increase ledgehog time (not necessarily invincibility time).
8. Increase hitstun.

1. Obvious
2. Probably not even possible, but most characters can do without it anyway; see above
3. I love my dashdancing, and so do a lot of people, I'm sure, but whether this is stepping the line or not... I don't know. What I do know is that it isn't a requirement for nerfing camping, although it will give people more options in making their approach
4. Grab range is fine, it's the throws that are the problem, if anything
5. Relatively unimportant, as the effect is the same either way: people will do running usmashes
6. Don't know exactly what you mean here, but depending how far you take it, probably a good movement balance-wise
7. Eh.. is this really necessary? I'm assuming you mean when rolling up. All this does is encourage gimp kills, whereas edgehogging with brawl's current physics takes far more skill, due to the precise timing. I actually like the current system better, even though I did abuse this plenty in melee, myself.
8. Hello reason to actually attack a foe!

As you can tell, I'm all on board for this, and see quite some potential in it, although I find it hard to figure out how far is "too far," when it comes to changing this kind of stuff. Another problem is I wouldn't know where to start at all. I'd be glad to help in any way possible, though. Whether it results in an improved game (by a large community's standards) or a complete flop, I don't know. However, I would theorize that we'll have a pretty good idea of how well received it will be by the community by the time the project is nearing its end. By then things may have evolved to the point where no one camps anymore, and this won't have much appeal to the players, or it might be even worse than it is now, and people would flock to a change of pace. Either way, I wouldn't completely abandon brawl until this is made into a standard form of play (not necessarily "the," but "a"), but currently I can't say the future is looking too bright for standard brawl.

you could call it Brawlee, but seriously if you go to this and want to come back to brawl later, you will return with shame and a whores dignity....

No less dignity than if I started playing some item side tournies and decided regular tournies were better. It's an experiment. I don't see what's so wrong with exploring other options when the current game lacks any fun in being competitive. I've been spending more time lately screwing around on brawl than I ever did in melee, simply because it's too boring to just play competitive style matches all the time, which I could play in melee endlessly.

As for a name for this project... How about Smash 2.5?

 

[Bud]

you do realize you can l cancel with fast fall and attacking at the right time, and the reason there are freeze frames is to make the game even so powerful moves have a somewhat flaw. Gannon is good and can wreck if played right, you don't need to l cancel his moves to win, you have to be more accurate. Tripping and MAYBE hitstun should be considered, but thats it if your wanting to mass share the codes. I guess i doubt your skills to balance the game more than the creators have while changing the physics to what you want. And if you say brawl isn't balanced, then why are you defending melee, marth fox falco shiek and minority of random counter picks.

 

[leafgreen386]

you do realize you can l cancel with fast fall and attacking at the right time, and the reason there are freeze frames is to make the game even so powerful moves have a somewhat flaw. Gannon is good and can wreck if played right, you don't need to l cancel his moves to win, you have to be more accurate. Tripping and MAYBE hitstun should be considered, but thats it if your wanting to mass share the codes. I guess i doubt your skills to balance the game more than the creators have while changing the physics to what you want. And if you say brawl isn't balanced, then why are you defending melee, marth fox falco shiek and minority of random counter picks.

Tell me when I said melee was balanced, and that might have actually held some meaning. I know full well that melee wasn't balanced. However, it was a whole lot more fun than brawl (imo).

And er... didn't I kinda already say that 3/5 of ganon's moves auto-cancel? I'm not sure if you understand that in a game with more hitstun characters like ganon could easily be dealing with frequent 0-deaths. THAT is why heavies would need some sort of buff in a game with more hitstun. Ganon's main approaches are the dash attack, sideB, and downB, and when he's close to his opponent, dair. Those three moves (minus the dair) are his only way of quickly closing the gap between him and his opponent, though, each of which are easy to counter if seen coming. When one mistake means eating a ton of damage or even death, ganon is fighting an uphill battle.

And er... "physics that you want." I'm of the strong belief that gravity should be left alone, and that the core physics of the game should be left in tact. Thus, the primary changes I want to see in this are the removal of tripping and increased hitstun. The hitstun alone would make offensive play actually viable, while the removal of tripping kills a random element that we can't get rid of otherwise, which is really all I wanted in the first place. I don't like that most characters in this game need to camp in order to do well. It shows poor game balance. Not necessarily character balance, but the balance between the viability of offensive and defensive strategies. I questioned whether it would be "right" or not to include melee-like dashdancing while we're at this, so I'm clearly not just thinking about what I want.

As for you doubting my ability to balance it? I already stated that I'm not really sure of how far is "too far" at this point. I thought I made that rather clear when I put aside my biases to question the addition of stuff like dashdancing. But brawl will have its top tiers just as melee did, regardless of what we do. Brawl does have quite the collection of viable characters that just aren't quite good enough. Oh, wait, so did melee. Melee had a top 4, and brawl will also have the same top 4-5 characters who always place well at tournies. Yes, there is a high possibility of us screwing this up and winding up with something even worse, but if we don't put any effort at all in it, there is a 0% chance of us coming out with anything better. Worst comes to worst, the project gets discarded. There's nothing we have to lose by doing this, and at the very least we'll discover some cool codes people can use to screw around on their own time.

 

[:034:]

More like playing with Assist Trophies, amirite?

Yeah, I'd just use it for **** like that.

 

[A New England Winter]

Wow..we have to cheat for competitive play. Are we that desperate?

Ya know what? No. I don't care. But if this thing f**ks up my online and tourney play, I'm gonna be so pissed.

 

[Boxob]

Who else likes the idea of calling this project 'Melee 2.0'?

Can't wait for the final product.

 

[KosukeKGA]

*skims through thread*

<_< This is why we should play Melee.

 

[SiegKnight]

Can you add an optional metre for final smashes?

Or make the smashballs always occur at a specific, between everyone interval, have non random percents and move according to how you hit them?

Not saying to make them more viable, but I'd like it if you did that to the game for my own sake, it'd make it fun.

I'd also like to be able to powershield any unblockable move, even stage hazards. Not normal shield, but powershield. It seems reasonable.

 

[EternalCrusade]

I'm all for getting rid of tripping, but can we all practice/play with these at home before going to tournaments?

 

[ArgentStew]

This is ridiculous... Using a cheat device for friendlies and showing off is one thing, but using a cheat device to make the game something different is another... I mean you realize that the people who actually play in and host tournaments will not stand for this kind of thing, right? This is a futile project, IMO... :/

I don't understand why we can't have both Brawl and Melee... Why must we force one to be like the other?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

This is ridiculous... Using a cheat device for friendlies and showing off is one thing, but using a cheat device to make the game something different is another... I mean you realize that the people who actually play in and host tournaments will not stand for this kind of thing, right? This is a futile project, IMO... :/

I don't understand why we can't have both Brawl and Melee... Why must we force one to be like the other?

Odd, I do both, and have been doing both, since 2004, and I fully support this.

Regular Brawl tournaments would still prevail, since they're the cash cow. That's the ONLY reason Smash was allowed into the Evo series. Not because it's an actual fighter (which it is not), but because Evo needed money badly, and Smash provides it. I don't understand why we can't have Brawl, Melee, and modified Brawl, without people *****ing. Seriously, if you don't like it, don't play it. I don't see you complaining about Virtua Fighter.

 

[The Executive]

Odd, I do both, and have been doing both, since 2004, and I fully support this.

Regular Brawl tournaments would still prevail, since they're the cash cow. That's the ONLY reason Smash was allowed into the Evo series. Not because it's an actual fighter (which it is not), but because Evo needed money badly, and Smash provides it. I don't understand why we can't have Brawl, Melee, and modified Brawl, without people *****ing. Seriously, if you don't like it, don't play it. I don't see you complaining about Virtua Fighter.

qft.

MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

 

[spiritdragon]

Highly highly support this. Screw online, people who think they're good just because they can pull off stuff on WiFi is ridiculous. Snake is unbeatable online, try it.

Melee 2.0 would be the best thing that could happen to brawl. Bring back the speed and the depth!

What I'm semi-wondering is if you would be able to create light shielding again, due to the pressure put on the L/R/Z button.

 

[Foxy]

Well, came back and read the new posts and here are some responses:

One HUGE problem I've run into is, what are we going to call this project? I'm terrible at names. Consipiricy to Destroy Brawl We are Plotting (CtDBWaP) doesn't sound very good.

Well, while I was working on this project with my friend for a couple of months we had a name ready: Super Smash Bros. Renaissance. Why? Renaissance means rebirth, and we thought it suited the project and sounded professional.

I do think that many of the great melee players won't be able to hang with the brawl pros because some of them are way too used to AT and have spent minimal time in mindgames and smart playing.

First, there aren't and won't be Brawl pros. Second, many, many, many semi-pro players like myself mastered the technical game, but mindgames are what separates the best. Anyone who's been to a tourney will tell you that. Brawl doesn't have a whole lot of mindgames, as it doesn't have many tools for them, and even if it did, Melee pros definitely know how to use them.

Brilliant. Why haven't all online game programmers used the "set online lag = 0" command?

No idea, monkeys programmed for them or something.

Even if this is possible, no. As i mentioned before, Brawl has finally made Heavy/Slow characters viable (or some of them at least) and L-Cancelling would HIDEOUSLY shift the balance of the game in their favor.

Sure, heavier characters got some buffs, but that's only because they were bottom-tier in Melee. They got balanced, yet the lack of l-canceling, as soon as increased hitstun is implemented, puts them right back at the bottom. You would imagine that Melee 'Dorf would have been unbalanced with l-canceling, but he wasn't. I can't really explain it, but adding it in wouldn't favor heavy characters that much; lighter ones have their share of landing lag too.

Considering how some people have been hailing it as "The New Wavedashing" and considering it the closest thing we have to advanced techniques, I'm pretty sure you'd have to back that modification up with nuclear-grade firepower.

I have absolutely no idea where the idea of calling it "The New Wavedashing" came from, it's completely backwards! It has absolutely no relation to wavedashing in terms of function, and all you need to know is how to do an up-smash. I fail to see how this is the "closest thing we have to advanced techniques" when there is no in-depth execution. It is, however, pretty pointless to remove as people would then JC them anyways, but it would just make them harder for newbies to spam while running around the stage.

Not terribly specific, and would take a LOT of codes and even MORE time to test and such, but okay...

Some characters just have some things that would be nice to fix, such as Shiek's fair, the speed increase on dairs (some of them, because it's actually a cool mechanic), and CAPTAIN FALCON.

What, as in the thing where ledge-rolling in Melee made it impossible to grab the ledge till you were done rolling? I disagree here - Edgeguarding should not be so easy as a couple of gimp moves followed by rolling onto the stage.

The more gimp options, the less time good players are going to have to spend spamming smashes out of their shield for the kill. Also, recovery is far too easy in Brawl, and has none of the sense of danger it had in Melee, with reduced gravity, buffed up-b moves, and limited edge-hogging. I do, though, see the need to keep it in, as it takes more skill to edge-hog than in Melee. It would just be nice to have more frequent gimps.

It's a good thing you saved this one for last because this right here is a huge blow to your credibility.

I don't understand how an awesome joke and jab like that can cause me to lose credibility?

2. Probably not even possible, but most characters can do without it anyway; see above

I definitely agree with your points. Many people will argue that it imbalances the game for heavy characters, but as you said they would be even worse off with increased hitstun against lighter characters and certainly need the buff.

3. I love my dashdancing, and so do a lot of people, I'm sure, but whether this is stepping the line or not... I don't know. What I do know is that it isn't a requirement for nerfing camping, although it will give people more options in making their approach

As a Falcon main in Melee, the useless dashdance in Brawl almost made me sick to play it. It was such an important mindgame and effective tool in Melee, and such a simple one, that I don't see why it shouldn't get back in. It's just great, and I don't know why developers wanted to remove it.

4. Grab range is fine, it's the throws that are the problem, if anything

I'm not sure what to do to fix the throws, but if something can be done, it would be pretty useful. I guess the grab range statement came from my Marth maining in Brawl, and the surprise at his shortened reach.

5. Relatively unimportant, as the effect is the same either way: people will do running usmashes

Absolutely true, the change is only useful if we decide to create a version that has a large skill-gap between new/bad players and experienced/great players.

7. Eh.. is this really necessary? I'm assuming you mean when rolling up. All this does is encourage gimp kills, whereas edgehogging with brawl's current physics takes far more skill, due to the precise timing. I actually like the current system better, even though I did abuse this plenty in melee, myself.

I feel about the same. I used it, as it was necessary, in Melee, and I do like the better timing required now. I just feel like there needs to be more gimp kills in Brawl, so that better players have more options.

 

[Bud]

wave dash wan't that advanced, a first grader could learn it, and too say there will be no pros in brawl and threre is no mindgames seems senseless, no one can see the future and all I have said is Brawl has the Possibility for all things epic, you say there is no way it can. What I say is possible and what you say is a brash quick reached decision. Do what you want to the game but don't say it WONT have pros that aren't awesome, and please don't ever say theres no mindgames, beacuse there is plenty of room in any smash game for mindgames. (sorry for the run ons and all the negative feedback, but I feel that people are rushing their decision and are saying definite things about smash's future when no one can see the future and it is completely POSSIBLE that brawl will ONE DAY surpass melee as a competitive game)

PS. there are plenty of gimp kills in brawl, you just dont know how to do them. I know a few and have seen others, plus 3 or 4 new techniques have been discovered very recently, airwalk is my fav and is awesome w/ G&W and i gimp combo with it. Play brawl and learn how to gimp before you say it doesn't exist.

 

[itsameSMB]

Well, a cheating device was bound to come out sooner or later, but I don't see that big of a problem. I rarely play "with anyone", since there is so little choice in it and the results are not recorded. As for the "with friends" option, if you catch the offender using one, just stop playing with them and boot them off your roster. If you can prove they cheated, all the better (recordings). In fact, I may just get one NOT for the cheats, but for some of the codes that would let you do things you normally couldn't (like if it's possible, a "final smash" special brawl where everyone is on standby for a FS). Might, but not definitely. Besides, would anyone really risk frying their Wii just so that they can beat someone they;ve never met or probably ever will online? If they would, then they probably ate glue when they were in kindergarden.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Just remove tripping. That's all I want.

And uhh, online is gimped anyway people. Get rid of it and give me a proper Smash game, any day.

Right now, Brawl's biggest flaw is tripping. I don't mind most of the other new features they added for the sake of easiness, but tripping MUST BE OUT. Let's make this game, or at least make it closest to, the truly competative game I and I'm certian many many others had in mind.

I do not care for what that will cost.

 

[ArgentStew]

I don't understand why we can't have Brawl, Melee, and modified Brawl, without people *****ing.

Why not create more divisions among the Smash community? Before ya know it, we will have Brawl, Melee, device-modified Brawl, high grav Brawl, Brawl with items, Lightning Brawls...blah blah blah... That's exactly what we need right now...

Besides that, a cheat device won't do half the things people are asking for... It's still going to be a lot like Brawl when it's all said and done...

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Again, I'm going to suggest that someone gets this for the sole purpose of getting frame data. Maybe you could use it to find more bugs too. I don't want a reprogrammed Brawl to be tournament standard. But this is very useful for helping us understand more about the game we already have.

 

[Foxy]

wave dash wan't that advanced, a first grader could learn it, and too say there will be no pros in brawl and threre is no mindgames seems senseless, no one can see the future and all I have said is Brawl has the Possibility for all things epic, you say there is no way it can. What I say is possible and what you say is a brash quick reached decision. Do what you want to the game but don't say it WONT have pros that aren't awesome, and please don't ever say theres no mindgames, beacuse there is plenty of room in any smash game for mindgames. (sorry for the run ons and all the negative feedback, but I feel that people are rushing their decision and are saying definite things about smash's future when no one can see the future and it is completely POSSIBLE that brawl will ONE DAY surpass melee as a competitive game)

I'm not saying that Brawl doesn't have mindgames, I'm saying that it isn't any more about mindgames than Melee was. Also, if you say a first-grader can learn how to wavedash, then someone in pre-school could be Brawl pro.

PS. there are plenty of gimp kills in brawl, you just dont know how to do them. I know a few and have seen others, plus 3 or 4 new techniques have been discovered very recently, airwalk is my fav and is awesome w/ G&W and i gimp combo with it. Play brawl and learn how to gimp before you say it doesn't exist.

Uh, no. I like opinions, but this is just not true. There aren't many ways to gimp. There isn't anything I don't know how to do. I've played doubles to 3rd on Gamebattles, I've been top 100 in singles very consistently since release, I've won two online tourneys, I've played Chudat in Melee, and like I said, I've played over one thousand online matches. I actually know what I'm doing, and what you're saying exists just doesn't. Also, airwalking is very cool but I don't use it much because the hitboxes of the aerials aren't as large as almost every character's ledge grab range, and they usually get off the edge before invincibility runs out. Still very fun to do with G&W though.

Well, a cheating device was bound to come out sooner or later, but I don't see that big of a problem. I rarely play "with anyone", since there is so little choice in it and the results are not recorded. As for the "with friends" option, if you catch the offender using one, just stop playing with them and boot them off your roster. If you can prove they cheated, all the better (recordings). In fact, I may just get one NOT for the cheats, but for some of the codes that would let you do things you normally couldn't (like if it's possible, a "final smash" special brawl where everyone is on standby for a FS). Might, but not definitely. Besides, would anyone really risk frying their Wii just so that they can beat someone they;ve never met or probably ever will online? If they would, then they probably ate glue when they were in kindergarden.

Ha ha... I think you're misinterpreting this thread. Nobody in here is interested in cheating, we're trying to modify the game. Cheating in Smash is pointless, the idea is to allow more skill into the game, not less.

 

[Bud]

ill show you some gimps when i get my wii back from nintendo, I know two sick ones with G&W and a ridiculous one with gannondorf. Very true not as many gimps as in brawl, but many gimps were created after much much melee playing with deep understandings of the physics, of course the first few gimps to come out are going to be simple exploits, the awesome ones will come with familiarity. i was saying a first grader could learn the button combination that does a wavedash, not how to apply it appropriately with pros, a kindergardener could not be pro at brawl, your exaggerating lol.

 

[Foxy]

ill show you some gimps when i get my wii back from nintendo, I know two sick ones with G&W and a ridiculous one with gannondorf. Very true not as many gimps as in brawl, but many gimps were created after much much melee playing with deep understandings of the physics, of course the first few gimps to come out are going to be simple exploits, the awesome ones will come with familiarity. i was saying a first grader could learn the button combination that does a wavedash, not how to apply it appropriately with pros, a kindergardener could not be pro at brawl, your exaggerating lol.

Of course I'm exaggerating. =P It was in response to your wavedash comment, I didn't know you simply meant that they could perform one.

If you know sick gimps then clearly you're the only person in the smash community that does. By gimp I really mean a skill kill that can be done at lower percentages, like edge hogging or spiking, which Ganon and G&W can both obviously do but that's nothing new. Spikes and ledge hogs won't save Brawl.

I'd love if Brawl just continues to evolve and we figure out the awesome gimps and advanced strategy, but it's just not going to happen. We know everything already. It's a great game, which is why I play it competitively, but it would be better as Melee 2.0.

 

[Bud]

Maybe were both a little right and a little wrong. Everyone in the community is arguing over an opinion (where no fact could ever be derived). Its like arguing about religion or gay rights, people have opinions and theres probably no real answer, it all comes down to preference and nothing anyone says on these boards is going to settle the argument or lay down the "law". Though I do believe our discussions have been somewhat productive if not as productive as playing the game instead of typing a lot. lol.

 

[Lord Knight]

I like to play, mindgames.

 

[Brandon72196]

I hope you guys know you cant play online with other people unless they have the same values changed.

 

[The Executive]

Precisely why this will, unfortunately, have a very hard time jumping to Wi-Fi, if it ever reaches that stage.

 

[Taymond]

Why not create more divisions among the Smash community? Before ya know it, we will have Brawl, Melee, device-modified Brawl, high grav Brawl, Brawl with items, Lightning Brawls...blah blah blah... That's exactly what we need right now...

Besides that, a cheat device won't do half the things people are asking for... It's still going to be a lot like Brawl when it's all said and done...

Who cares how many competitive standards there are? Brawl has a big enough fan base, trust me. And normal Brawl will certainly remain the most popular, no matter how many Brawl-offshoot standards are used, so what are you whining so much about? People who play non-standard tournaments will still play the original Brawl standard tournaments. They'll do both.

And we kinda.. want it to be like Brawl. There's a lot of things wrong with Brawl, but it's got a lot of good, too. We don't necessarily want to turn Brawl into Melee, we'd like to make Brawl a little more playable, though.

 

[EternalCrusade]

9. In the code, set online lag = 0.

......................................................wut?

is this thread a joke? I didnt think so at first but.........yea..... <_<