(Update) Aerial C-Stick Issues +*Workaround*

[Conda]

Honestly, they shouldn't have done that. The whole reason to use C stick for Smash attacks is convenient uncharged Smashes. Charged Smashes are just fine to do with the A button.

But whatever. Either we get used to it, or we voice complaints to Sakurai's twitter. I doubt this is out of their ability to patch personally.

The awkward thing that kills the c-stick-as-tilts control setting is those diagonal neutrals. Doing a jab because I pressed a diagonal direction by accident sucks. Same in the air - pressing a diagonal makes you do a nair. And it's only for pretty-much-perfect diagonals, so you'll basically find yourself accidentally doing it more than purposefully due to the tiny angle window.

It may be easier on the GC controller, but on the Pro controller and Wii U pad, the round edges make it stupidly impossible to do consistently.

 

[Gardex]

You're making it sound like moving around while doing nair in the air is a bad feature.

Sounds fun for characters with good nairs

 

[san.]

Nair with cstick is the best part, just get used to it. Trust me, I've been using it for like 5 years, it's fine.

 

[Yogehi]

i can confirm that this issue persists with the GC controller

i also can't post links since i don't post enough, but i got the bundle. sorry i can't provide proof -_-

 

[Conda]

i can confirm that this issue persists with the GC controller

i also can't post links since i don't post enough, but i got the bundle. sorry i can't provide proof -_-

Yeah its an engine thing so it works the same with the GC controller.

 

[Shataraterevar]

I hope it will get a hotfix this one...

 

[Udlr Customs]

I'm sure this will be fixed in the next patch.

 

[Conda]

Nair with cstick is the best part, just get used to it. Trust me, I've been using it for like 5 years, it's fine.

Its the perfect diagonal input that is wonky. Perhaps its easier in a GC controller with the grooves. Cstick nairs are obviously quite useful though yes.

 

[Conda]

Added some new info to the bottom of the OP in regards to the Gc controller. Does not fix the issue.

Heading out now to pick mine up.

Hopefully my few videos last night were helpful, this is pretty much all I did on launch day. Kind of disappointing but at least I got to help some people.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Once you have yours, could you also try testing B sticking? Maybe if there's no issues with that then it might become the new standard

 

[TTTTTsd]

Honestly, flicking C Stick isn't that hard guys. Once you get used to it it's smooth

Granted I'm one to talk, I always flicked it, like a G.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

New drawback to the 'set cstick to attack' workaround:

You cannot pivot tilt or pivot fsmash with the cstick, you have to use the A button. Pressing the cstick in the opposite direction just performs a dash attack in your current direction.

Have you tried letting go of the control stick/putting it into neutral and then using the C-Stick for pivot tilting? That may be why you aren't able to perform pivot tilts, as the technique may require the control stick to briefly be in the neutral state.

 

[Saykrd]

I'm surprised no one noticed this before. I'm guessing this is a recent issue? No one at the invitational mentioned this, nor anyone who played the Wii U version prior to release (well, not to my knowledge at least). It also seemed perfectly fine during the best buy event, assuming I'm not remembering things wrong.

 

[Conda]

Have you tried letting go of the control stick/putting it into neutral and then using the C-Stick for pivot tilting? That may be why you aren't able to perform pivot tilts, as the technique may require the control stick to briefly be in the neutral state.

Not sure, i tried a bunch of variations and couldn't get anything useful. I'll try more today, but feel free to update this thread with your findings guys and gals: http://smashboards.com/threads/pivo...ll-we-hoped-it-would-be.378916/#post-18031580

 

[ZHMT]

We need to voice this out, it needs to be fixed. Also as a Jiggs main, I suppose the workaround is required for now.

 

[TTTTTsd]

If you want a good workaround, set it to "Attack" instead of Smash Attack. Jiggs doesn't use much grounded smashes anyways, and the C Stick has really good groves for optimal angle tilting.

Again this bug sucks and is really weird but I don't really have an issue because I've always flicked it and found flicking the C Stick to be the most optimal way to play given that it returns your hands to neutral the fastest. I figured this bug affected even flicking but if it does it's super minute and not a big difference, so the salt I had last night when I read this is immediately gone.

If anyone wants me to elaborate on C-Stick grooves and why Tilt settings is a great workaround on that controller in particular do let me know.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Not 100% related to this topic but still on the issue of the c stick...

Does clicking the analog on the Pro Controller do anything? I don't have access to the game until tomorrow and I was wondering if pressing down on the analog would do anything. Makes sense for it to do Nair or Jab, but I can't test it atm.

 

[popsofctown]

I know people will think of this as robbing them of max control of the game, but it actually just forces you to take off some training wheels and get max control of the game where you were being lazy before.
Smash sticking never let you do anything that tilt sticking didn't let you do.
Tilt sticking lets you do something smash sticking doesn't let you do: true retreating or approaching nairs.

If you smash stick playing Charizard in PM you're pretty much doing it wrong.

Smashes take a bit more effort but the stick is all about the aerials anyway (and DACUS, which is gone). Even if the bug is fixed, you're limiting your max potential if you go back, you lose those nairs, and there's only like 2 characters with an irrelevant Nair and they might be Master Hand and Crazy Hand.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Smash sticking is incredibly important for Mario and Dr. Mario though. Pivot FSmash, initial dash frames into FSmash.

I'd like both to be PERFECTLY functional but now Smash sticking requires execution, but again, no salt, I can do it.

 

[popsofctown]

You can do stutter smashes without c-sticking. The frame window on it is pretty generous

 

[sunshinesan]

My Jigglypuff T____T

 

[Uniit]

Even if the bug is fixed, you're limiting your max potential if you go back, you lose those nairs, and there's only like 2 characters with an irrelevant Nair and they might be Master Hand and Crazy Hand.

Who's ever struggling doing a Nair with the A button actually ? I don't quite understands that part.

Thus i'm not a fan on letting the game imposing their controls, and definitely letting go all that muscle memory. So i do hope that this is getting a hotfix.

 

[Lavani]

Who's ever struggling doing a Nair with the A button actually ? I don't quite understands that part.

The problem is letting go of the control stick to nair with A and giving up horizontal speed.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Why can't we just have both working as intended again? The characters I play primarily do not have Nairs that really benefit from that besides maybe Mario or Doc. Just fix it so people can all play on like, equal turf and stuff.

 

[Signia]

Wow, didn't know tilt-sticking was a thing. Seems strictly better than Smash sticking in Smash 4. C-stick no longer gets rid of the charge smash attacks, so the only difference with normal smashing is you have to press a button at the same time, which isn't hard, and instead you flick the button instead of the stick (slightly harder).

Getting to be able to twitch-react with tilts and not lose momentum when doing nairs is pretty big. I can just imagine doing perfect pivot dtilts and utilts with Marth...

 

[Reila]

This thread taught me that you can use the c-stick for tilts. Sounds a lot more useful than using the button for smash attacks, which are extremely easy to perform with the directional pad + A button. Tilts always give me more trouble regardless of which controller I am using. Neat.

 

[Conda]

This thread taught me that you can use the c-stick for tilts. Sounds a lot more useful than using the button for smash attacks, which are extremely easy to perform with the directional pad + A button. Tilts always give me more trouble regardless of which controller I am using. Neat.

Yeah I guess it's not too bad. You lose the easy usmash out of run option, but you can still do it with the A button. You also get nairs if you accidentally hit a diagonal, so you definitely have to get much more accurate with C-stick directions now.

Grounded jabs with the cstick are useless and super hard to 'mash' to properly attack at your fastest speed. Flicking at that diagonal angle 3x times for most jabs, and multiple times to get a AAA combo going, is VERY difficult with the cstick. So I still use the A button for grounded jabs. It just sucks when you accidentally jab instead of ftilt, and it sucks that you can't angle ftilts with it (because diagonal = jab), but precision is needed I suppose. Same goes for c-stick flicking when set to Smash, but making a mistake there can be deadly especially offstage.

 

[san.]

Cstick jabs are for jabs after buffering a turnaround. The precision of the C-stick has a slight learning curve, but it's also pretty easy with the Gamecube's notches.

You can perform most things that smash stick allowed you to do easily with manual inputs.

Brawl's biggest problem was that spamming attack stick made you jump/double jump for some reason (as well as losing another way to SDI). It seems to be fixed this time around?

 

[Conda]

Cstick jabs are for jabs after buffering a turnaround. The precision of the C-stick has a slight learning curve, but it's also pretty easy with the Gamecube's notches.

You can perform most things that smash stick allowed you to do easily with manual inputs.

Brawl's biggest problem was that spamming attack stick made you jump/double jump for some reason (as well as losing another way to SDI). It seems to be fixed this time around?

Yeah I remember the jumping thing. Hasn't happened to me yet.

 

[Hylian]

This really isn't a big issue. It's easy to do full retreating aerials with flicking, or even just holding back a frame before inputting an attack.

 

[Conda]

This really isn't a big issue. It's easy to do full retreating aerials with flicking, or even just holding back a frame before inputting an attack.

It moreso depends on how you've been playing Smash for the past 10~ years. Adjusting your c-stick timing and making you you never erroneously press the cstick for more than a frame instinctively can drastically change how the C-stick feels for you, and how aerial gameplay feels in general.

It's easy to adjust to if you've always been flicking the stick anyway, but if you didn't (due to the previous games not requiring you to), then this makes the game feel very strange. And even once you get used to flicking perfectly, it's an unneeded change in how the cstick and movement stick work;.

The fact that both sticks cannot be used at the same time is definitely cause for a workaround for many people. It's a big change, but the ease of adjusting to it depends on how you used both sticks together in the past.

 

[Hylian]

It moreso depends on how you've been playing Smash for the past 10~ years. Adjusting your c-stick timing and making you you never erroneously press the cstick for more than a frame instinctively can drastically change how the C-stick feels for you, and how aerial gameplay feels in general.

It's easy to adjust to if you've always been flicking the stick anyway, but if you didn't (due to the previous games not requiring you to), then this makes the game feel very strange. And even once you get used to flicking perfectly, it's an unneeded change in how the cstick and movement stick work; it's a silly restriction that both sticks cannot be used at the same time.

I'm not arguing that it's a good change, I would love for it to be reverted. It's overall a non-issue for most competitive players however and flicking the c-stick is a norm. It sucks for a lot of people though I agree.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

*This is not momentum canceling DISCALIMER*

Is anyone else experience this? I try to do a C stick aerial (usually when retreating, I'll do fair) and my retreat will just come to a complete stop when I hit C stick fwd. I am extremely sad about this. Is there a way around this? This is most noticable when you run forward, then jump back and C stick aerial forward.

 

[Shog]

Easy solution, change C Stick to attack instead of smash
although it isn't a prefect solution

 

[Katakiri]

The C-Stick overrides your control stick if you hold down the C-Stick. If you quickly tap it, it doesn't hinder you noticeably. So you can still retreat aerials, it just takes a little more finesse.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

The C-Stick overrides your control stick if you hold down the C-Stick. If you quickly tap it, it doesn't hinder you noticeably. So you can still retreat aerials, it just takes a little more finesse.

So theoretically if I time it perfectly (just a slight flick) I will 0 reduction in momentum?

Easy solution, change C Stick to attack instead of smash
although it isn't a prefect solution

If I can't get used to flicking it i'll adopt this, that's awesome. Thanks.

 

[Tagxy]

*This is not momentum canceling DISCALIMER*

Is anyone else experience this? I try to do a C stick aerial (usually when retreating, I'll do fair) and my retreat will just come to a complete stop when I hit C stick fwd. I am extremely sad about this. Is there a way around this? This is most noticable when you run forward, then jump back and C stick aerial forward.

Theres a thread on the boards already about it. C-stick issues + work around. Flicking the stick fast seems to work around it, though it isnt as simple as previous smash games. Alternatively you can change c-stick to tilts.

People believe it is a bug to do with the charging smashes.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I heard changing it to tilt takes the momentum thing away but I don't have the game myself just yet so I can't confirm that.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Theres a thread on the boards already about it. C-stick issues + work around. Flicking the stick fast seems to work around it, though it isnt as simple as previous smash games. Alternatively you can change c-stick to tilts.

People believe it is a bug to do with the charging smashes.

Where's the thread? I tried to look before making this and was surprised I didn't see one.

Theres a thread on the boards already about it. C-stick issues + work around. Flicking the stick fast seems to work around it, though it isnt as simple as previous smash games. Alternatively you can change c-stick to tilts.

People believe it is a bug to do with the charging smashes.

If it's just a bug hopefully they patch it out in the next update.

 

[Tagxy]

Its called c-stick + workaround.
http://smashboards.com/threads/update-aerial-c-stick-issues-workaround.378889/