(Update) Aerial C-Stick Issues +*Workaround*

[Conda]

Edit 2: Updated video + info

The short:

They changed how the c-stick has worked for the past 10 years.

Using the c-stick for any aerial attack stops the left control stick from sending any movement inputs. So you have to flick the c-stick very quickly and not hold it for more than 1~ frame (flick 'dat stick) when using it. This is the only way to not have your left stick inputs nulled/ignored while using the c-stick. If you are not an excellent flicker, then your mobility will suffer a great loss.

Tell Nintendo via Club Nintendo to fix this and allow both sticks to be used at the same time in the air.


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The long:

Using the Wii U gamepad or pro controller (unsure about GC controller yet) - when you fair as Marth with the cstick, you cannot move backward with the other control stick while holding back. Marth drifts forward even while holding back. Why does this happen?

It seems that, if I use the right joystick to input an attack, the left stick stops being read and stops affecting my movement. I have to reset the control stick to neutral and THEN input backward, or perfectly flick the cstick so it's not impeding on the left stick for more than 1 frame.

Super weird and needlessly tied to ground c-stick smash charging. That's why it disables the left stick for movement while holding the c-stick. It shouldn't be working like this in the air.


It's not implemented properly and it seems C-sticking is programmed to work the same in the air as on the ground now, with the weird 'charging' inhibition on right stick movement. So, while holding the c-stick, you can't use the left stick. If you hold the C-stick down for more than basically a frame, then your left stick stops sending any data and your aerial momentum freezes. Whatever direction you are moving (or no direction at all), you'll retain that direction and momentum while not be able to adjust it. Because your left stick is being ignored.

This is broken and shouldn't work like this, and is due to an oversight -- there's no reason why you should have to flick perfectly for aerials in order to not have your left stick inputs ignored/interrupted.


EDIT 1: Workaround

Changing c-stick to attack (aka TILTS) makes the cstick act NORMALLY in the air! You can press it as long as you want and still regain control of your aerial movement.

DRAWBACKS to setting C-stick to Attack:
1) You can't do smash attacks with the cstick on the ground, just tilts.
2) Inputting a diagonal with the C-stick on the ground initiates a JAB. Thus, tilted f-tilts are not possible. Diagonals also perform a NAIR in the air. Get ready for misclicks. This is SUPER awkward.
3) You cannot pivot tilt or pivot fsmash with the cstick, you have to use the A button. Pressing the cstick in the opposite direction just performs a dash attack in your current direction.

TTTTTsd Let me know about his experience with the GC controller.
C Stick bug is still evident, as expected, in the air. Flicking is apparently easier with a cstick compared to the conventional thumbstick on the pro controller and wii u pad. But your mileage will vary. Grooves around the stick make c stick set to attack more manageable - pivots and neutrals are understandably easier to distinguish inputs for.
Off topic - Tap Jump is apparently way too sensitive, but I don't use it so at least it doesnt add to my salt.

 

[SonicZeroX]

And just when we thought we were finally safe, Sakurai strikes again.

 

[DanGR]

Can you fast fall or jump with the control stick while holding the c-stick forward?

 

[Random4811]

Someone needs to test with the good controller. If its bad with the GCC, then its just a programming issue. Either a glitch, or something Daddy Sakurai intended.

 

[Jehtt]

Maybe the C-stick is just a macro for holding [Direction] + A now. Try flicking the c-stick instead of holding it in the direction, maybe?

 

[Conda]

Maybe the C-stick is just a macro for holding [Direction] + A now. Try flicking the c-stick instead of holding it in the direction, maybe?

Yes, it works like that. Problem is, it still halts movement and all momentum while you input the attack, even by just flicking. It's super buggy all around.

 

[LyonDRC]

Hopefully this isn't an issue with the GCN controller because I was looking forward on doing retreating fairs with Marth...

 

[TTTTTsd]

That's....incredibly weird. I'll try with the GC adapter tomorrow.

 

[Jehtt]

I've heard that you can change your momentum if you return the stick to neutral position before holding the opposite direction. Could you please try that and see if it works?

 

[TTTTTsd]

This is definitely the cause of being able to charge Smash attacks with the C Stick. If you hold the direction you can charge a Smash attack....welp, that makes sense now.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't see how it's buggy. For all we know, it could be intended behavior.

 

[SonicZeroX]

This is definitely the cause of being able to charge Smash attacks with the C Stick. If you hold the direction you can charge a Smash attack....welp, that makes sense now.

What happens if you change the c stick to something else like tilts or b moves?

 

[Conda]

I've heard that you can change your momentum if you return the stick to neutral position before holding the opposite direction. Could you please try that and see if it works?

Defeats the whole purpose. Retreating fairs with proper backward movement is no longer possible unless you perfectly flick each time, when this was never a requirement. There's no reason why, aerially, you should have to flick perfectly as to not hinder your aerial momentum.

It's not implemented properly and it seems C-sticking is programmed to work the same in the air as on the ground now, with the weird 'charging' inhibition on right stick movement. So, while holding the c-stick, you can't use the left stick. So if you don't flick faster enough, you kill your left stick inputs and kill aerial momentum.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Can you check if it's with the GC Controller adapter? I don't know why it wouldn't be, but...yeah.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Can't you change the C-stick to tilts? Tilts can't be charged.

 

[NairWizard]

Oh, dang. But, but...my RAR b-airs! My retreating f-airs!

MY RETREATING LAGLESS IKE F-AIRS. WHY.

 

[Conda]

Oh, dang. But, but...my RAR b-airs! My retreating f-airs!

MY RETREATING LAGLESS IKE F-AIRS. WHY.

Updated the OP. C-sticking confirmed to only properly work aerially, while retaining your aerial momentum of your choice from the left stick, if you flick the c-stick perfectly. If you hold it down for more than basically a frame, then your left stick stops sending any data and your aerial momentum dies.

 

[Shaya]

Could you perhaps like... un-sensationalise your topic title? :<

If you can still maintain momentum from flicking the c stick, that should be fine for most players I'd say?

Unless the motion of the thumb flick registers for longer than a frame (or whatever) on average... which could be possible

 

[NairWizard]

Updated the OP. C-sticking confirmed to only properly work aerially, while retaining your aerial momentum of your choice from the left stick, if you flick the c-stick perfectly. If you hold it down for more than basically a frame, then your left stick stops sending any data and your aerial momentum dies.

Oh, good.

DACUS is gone but another frame-tight input (and one that I must perform more consistently) has replaced it. I was worried that my fingers would get to rest.

 

[DarkKiru]

Does it do this even if you change the c stick input to tilts?

 

[SonicZeroX]

Please tell me at least the c stick won't fastfall when you dair like Brawl

 

[Conda]

Please tell me at least the c stick won't fastfall when you dair like Brawl

Only if you press it twice.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Only if you press it twice.

PROGRESS!

 

[SonicZeroX]

Alright cool.

What about hyphen smashes? Are they still super easy to do with the c stick? And laos how easy or difficult are pivot fsmashes now, cause they were really hard on the 3ds.

 

[Conda]

PROGRESS!

PROGRESS

Changing c-stick to attack (aka TILTS) makes the cstick act NORMALLY in the air! You can press it as long as you want and still regain control of your aerial movement.

The only drawback is you can't do smash attacks with the cstick on the ground, just tilts. But hey, maybe I can get used to that. Tilts tend to be a little trickier to do in the heat of battle than smashes anywho.

 

[TTTTTsd]

So, the solution is to change the C-Stick to tilts if your character is dependent on retreating Fairs (so, Marth, etc.). Until it's fixed, anyways. Alright, good to know.

 

[Jaedrik]

PLEASE CHANGE THIS, NINTENDO.

Do it properly!

 

[LancerStaff]

Watch them nerf the C-Stick tilts in the next update.

Me, I think it's a very intentional addition. Why? To give those with a C-Stick less of an advantage, of course.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think it's an accident with the ability of charging Smash attacks with the C Stick constantly holding the macro they used for it. That's exactly what this is, actually.

 

[Conda]

I think it's an accident with the ability of charging Smash attacks with the C Stick constantly holding the macro they used for it. That's exactly what this is, actually.

Yeah, the issue is it shouldn't be 'holdable' aerially. Charging smashes is a grounded feature only, so aerially the C-stick and movement stick should behave as in past games. It shouldn't require you to be frame perfect with flicking, it should let you use it naturally as in the other Smash Bros.

The only way to achieve this is by disabling c-stick charging by changing it to do tilts instead, which cannot be charged. Super silly oversight by nintendo.

So, the solution is to change the C-Stick to tilts if your character is dependent on retreating Fairs (so, Marth, etc.). Until it's fixed, anyways. Alright, good to know.

Not only retreating fairs, but any movement after using c-stick inputs aerially. Same with dairs - if you want to use a dair and then change your aerial movement at the same time, then you have to flick the c-stick for 1 frame and make sure you don't hold it too long, or else the left stick dies until reset to neutral.

 

[NairWizard]

Do C-stick smashes still come out 1 frame later than regular smashes, ala Melee?

Also, does Robin's retreating Levin f-air work...? Or does it come out as regular f-air? Assuming that you have the stick set to tilts (does it work with smashes?)

 

[Conda]

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-levin-works-with-c-sticking.378902/

That's how levin sword works with the c stick.

 

[NairWizard]

Awesome, thanks.

 

[Conda]

Update on the 'set c-stick to tilts' workaround:

Inputting a diagonal with the C-stick on the ground initiates a JAB. Thus, tilted f-tilts are not possible. And mis-presses and accidental jabs may be likely.

Diagonals also perform a NAIR in the air.

 

[Locke 06]

Update on the 'set c-stick to tilts' workaround:

Inputting a diagonal with the C-stick on the ground initiates a JAB. Thus, tilted f-tilts are not possible. And mis-presses and accidental jabs may be likely.

Diagonals also perform a NAIR in the air.

Diagonal Tilt-stick = jab/Nair? says hello.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Update on the 'set c-stick to tilts' workaround:

Inputting a diagonal with the C-stick on the ground initiates a JAB. Thus, tilted f-tilts are not possible. And mis-presses and accidental jabs may be likely.

Diagonals also perform a NAIR in the air.

I think this happened in Brawl too?

 

[Conda]

I think this happened in Brawl too?

IIRC yeah. It's more relevant now since more people will be using this control scheme to get around the buggy implementation of cstick aerials with the default control scheme.

 

[Conda]

Diagonal Tilt-stick = jab/Nair? says hello.

It has to be a near perfect diagonal, so it seems like it'll only happen accidentally on a pro controller due to no grooves. Also, grounded Megaman has to flick the c-stick left or right with tight timing in order to multi-jab/tilt. If you hold it or press it multiple times with bad timing, you'll only shoot one lemon and that's it. You have to flick it precisely 1-2-3 to get the 3 lemons to shoot.

Wonky. Ugh.

 

[Conda]

New drawback to the 'set cstick to attack' workaround:

You cannot pivot tilt or pivot fsmash with the cstick, you have to use the A button. Pressing the cstick in the opposite direction just performs a dash attack in your current direction.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think it's an accident with the ability of charging Smash attacks with the C Stick constantly holding the macro they used for it. That's exactly what this is, actually.

Honestly, they shouldn't have done that. The whole reason to use C stick for Smash attacks is convenient uncharged Smashes. Charged Smashes are just fine to do with the A button.

But whatever. Either we get used to it, or we voice complaints to Sakurai's twitter. I doubt this is out of their ability to patch personally.