Upcoming 1.0.4 Balance Patch in November!

[ChronoPenguin]

Metaknight? A lot were already turned off by tripping. How you gonna watch Mk vs Mk enough to bore of it when the core game already goofed? You want a more legitimate experience you have to mod? The novelty of my lloyd irving skins wore off fast. Might as well watch melee a bit then bounce. Brawl tried to lose its love well before MK.

Smash4 is in a far better position.

 

[Thinkaman]

Not gonna lie: the single best thing about Smash 4 will be no longer having to repeat the last 6.5 years of Brawl arguments on loop.

 

[Mechageo]

Hope they fix Wario's momentum glitch.

This is all hearsay, but I've heard that it's out.

 

[Vidiot825]

RIP link being able to semi handle Rosalina -_-

 

[CE_TheLord]

RIP link being able to semi handle Rosalina -_-

´
I agree completely, getting rid of rush cancelling, wectoring, and item lag cancelling hurts a lot ;-;

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I'm fully expecting the patch to leave 1 thing for every 10 it fixes, resulting in endless complaints on the former.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase

 

[Shaya]

RIP link being able to semi handle Rosalina -_-

BUT DROPPING BOMBS FROM YOUR AIR DODGE AND BEING COMPLETELY INVINCIBLE DURING IT ISN'T AMAZING AT ALL?
:<
I've heard it's coming back, you guys should be jumping out of your trees about this. (original discovery [i think]: http://smashboards.com/threads/invinci-bombing-discussion-with-video-z-air-raring.212866/)

"Invincibomb (ibomb)
Probably the most versatile AT that Link has.
How to Perform: Pull out a bomb, Jump, use airdodge then hit A instantly after (Almost at the same time).
Effect: Link will do an air dodge and drop the bomb at the same time. This means that you can hit them with the bomb and avoid the blast and any other attacks at the same time.
Note: This can be used in almost any situation. Whether you’re attacking, defending, falling or rising, this is always a good option and should be used by all Links.
Stages: All"

 

[Conda]

BUT DROPPING BOMBS FROM YOUR AIR DODGE AND BEING COMPLETELY INVINCIBLE DURING IT ISN'T AMAZING AT ALL?
:<
I've heard it's coming back, you guys should be jumping out of your trees about this. (original discovery [i think]: http://smashboards.com/threads/invinci-bombing-discussion-with-video-z-air-raring.212866/)

"Invincibomb (ibomb)
Probably the most versatile AT that Link has.
How to Perform: Pull out a bomb, Jump, use airdodge then hit A instantly after (Almost at the same time).
Effect: Link will do an air dodge and drop the bomb at the same time. This means that you can hit them with the bomb and avoid the blast and any other attacks at the same time.
Note: This can be used in almost any situation. Whether you’re attacking, defending, falling or rising, this is always a good option and should be used by all Links.
Stages: All"

This is how I use short fuse bombs with Toon Link. The reward is huge and it's a lot of fun, plus it gives you a stealth cloud to act in and your foes cannot see what's going on behind it. But shh don't tell anyone.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

what im expecting from patches( yes not specifically this patch but a culmination of them)
is to hopfully get rid of this stupid polarizing effect of player only thinking fast nimble combo characters are the only possible top teir.
rosalina is a great example of this occuring but not in they way i would like it unfortunately.
i would like to see characters that are considered ''honest'' as in not being tricky enough be top teir at some point. i would just love to see honest fighters be more than they are. Characters like falco don't need a speed boost to be good. ( even though i think hes pretty awsome)
i would love to see incredibly slow characters make top teir for once. seeing ganon fighting shiek would be awsome.
while bowser is a closer example of heavy being good but hes not particularly slow.
i dunno i just want to see more variety on types of characters being top of the line.
im just tired of fast and nimble being the only widly considered top tier. and no i don't just wan't it to transition to gimmick characters ether. i just want balance between the groupings.
like come on apparenly the best type of mii brawler is the small fast nimble one. like WTF.
ugh sorry this is just somthing that iritates me since im generally a heavy and or honest pay style advocate. though my main does take some precision.
general point i want balance and patches make it possible.

 

[Cruncher93]

what im expecting from patches( yes not specifically this patch but a culmination of them)
is to hopfully get rid of this stupid polarizing effect of player only thinking fast nimble combo characters are the only possible top teir.
rosalina is a great example of this occuring but not in they way i would like it unfortunately.
i would like to see characters that are considered ''honest'' as in not being tricky enough be top teir at some point. i would just love to see honest fighters be more than they are. Characters like falco don't need a speed boost to be good. ( even though i think hes pretty awsome)
i would love to see incredibly slow characters make top teir for once. seeing ganon fighting shiek would be awsome.
while bowser is a closer example of heavy being good but hes not particularly slow.
i dunno i just want to see more variety on types of characters being top of the line.
im just tired of fast and nimble being the only widly considered top tier. and no i don't just wan't it to transition to gimmick characters ether. i just want balance between the groupings.
like come on apparenly the best type of mii brawler is the small fast nimble one. like WTF.
ugh sorry this is just somthing that iritates me since im generally a heavy and or honest pay style advocate. though my main does take some precision.
general point i want balance and patches make it possible.

My guess would be that being a heavy and slow, the only way to be good is to have some "unfair" advantage like ridiculous reach, super armor or simply extreme damage. It gives the opponent of a vibe of "I screwed" up, rather than "he outplayed me", since all attacks are slow and should thus be avoidable. I guess its similar to the problem people have with Lucario's aura: You get hit 3 times and its over.
People tend to ignore the struggle someone like Ganondorf has to go through in order to get those 3 hits in and only look at the raw numbers.

So I assume seeing a top tier Ganondorf would deter people since some may see him as a character that just tries to rely on his opponents mistakes, even though that is actually completely fine and shows that the Ganondorf player can seize opportunities better than his opponent. Viewers love to see combos, they like to see a Shiek carry someone offstage with F-airs, but only invested players can appreciate mindgames and defensive gameplay some heavies have to use.

 

[LinkNIvy]

I agree, but DACUS tho.

I remember reading somewhere that DACUS is deliberately coded into the game

 

[Conda]

I remember reading somewhere that DACUS is deliberately coded into the game

Heavily dont think so. It has to do with your dash attack momentum and the quirks within it, at least iirc. Transferring it to your usmash is likely very intended, similar to wavebouncing, but i dont think sakurai gave DACUS moves their own custom separate distance, i thinks its always based on and linked to the quirks of the dash attack.

 

[Vidiot825]

BUT DROPPING BOMBS FROM YOUR AIR DODGE AND BEING COMPLETELY INVINCIBLE DURING IT ISN'T AMAZING AT ALL?
:<
I've heard it's coming back, you guys should be jumping out of your trees about this. (original discovery [i think]: http://smashboards.com/threads/invinci-bombing-discussion-with-video-z-air-raring.212866/)

"Invincibomb (ibomb)
Probably the most versatile AT that Link has.
How to Perform: Pull out a bomb, Jump, use airdodge then hit A instantly after (Almost at the same time).
Effect: Link will do an air dodge and drop the bomb at the same time. This means that you can hit them with the bomb and avoid the blast and any other attacks at the same time.
Note: This can be used in almost any situation. Whether you’re attacking, defending, falling or rising, this is always a good option and should be used by all Links.
Stages: All"

Wasn't aware of this technique, thanks for the heads up. I usually just drop a bomb while running, so that's nice to know. But it should be considered that bombs actually don't affect link in the first place, the blast only affects opponents unless they hit the ground. And Link's bombs are more stable than Toon link's, so even if you're close the ground they just lie on the ground, not explode. Overall the invincibomb is good, but not nearly as versatile as the hookshot to bomb cancel was.

Edit: invincibomb seems to only be a Tink tactic now that i've read up on it since bombs explode on contact and can't be layed on ground by him. Doesn't really apply to link since his bombs are stable and will stay on the floor off a short hop. It should be noted that Tink's bombs are potentially a better combo tool as well.

What i was talking about was his ability to aerial hookshot to bomb cancel throw (not a guaranteed combo, but a nice way to pressure). This was an active way to get past most reflectors, which more or less tend to be link's bane in my opinion due to his playstyle relying heavily on ranging options. This technique also would make luma flinch up close and allow link to land an actual hit in the matchup without being punished by luma heavily, which was crucial since Rosa has that godly down B that eliminates ALL of his ranging options.

Just food for thought though, it's not the end of the world.

 

[Conda]

Link and Tlink already do not get hit when their bomb blows up on their opponent. Does this not apply to Z drops?

 

[Thinkaman]

DACUS is probably not "deliberate" in the sense that wavedashing wasn't. It's a logical implication of the game's rules for processing inputs; after how pronounced it was in Brawl, there is zero chance it wasn't known to the developers for Smash 4, and almost certainly before Brawl's release as well.

 

[BBC7]

According to a SmashBoards member named ChopperDave, Rush Cancelling actually isn't a glitch or a bug. It comes out in 1 frame, gives you invincibility at the start of those frames, and allows you to attack afterwards instead of going into freefall. He suggest that Rush Cancelling was actually intended as a way to eject from combos, which makes sense because it is apparently not removed in the Wii U version and is the main advantage it has over Beat or Tornado Hold to begin with.

 

[Vidiot825]

Link and Tlink already do not get hit when their bomb blows up on their opponent. Does this not apply to Z drops?

No, doesn't apply to Z drops, only if opponent is hit

 

[BBC7]

According to Toronto Joe, Toon Link Bomb Cancel still exists.

 

[Los4Muros]

I wish Nintendo hadn't announced the Game Patch without a Date. I check up everyday for more information about it. I would've liked it to be a surprise or with a date to know when to expect getting the download.

 

[sunset_raven]

According to Toronto Joe, Toon Link Bomb Cancel still exists.

Could Joe provide video evidence?

Edit: this Z dropping, isn't air dodging and immediatly after hookshot? If it is, Tink seems better of with BLC. Lagless fAir and bAir is pretty good.

 

[Crescent_Sun]

According to a SmashBoards member named ChopperDave, Rush Cancelling actually isn't a glitch or a bug. It comes out in 1 frame, gives you invincibility at the start of those frames, and allows you to attack afterwards instead of going into freefall. He suggest that Rush Cancelling was actually intended as a way to eject from combos, which makes sense because it is apparently not removed in the Wii U version and is the main advantage it has over Beat or Tornado Hold to begin with.

It'd make me pretty damn happy if they realized that this sort of thing helps Mega Man be a level of good, so they can intentionally give characters advanced techniques that aren't super exploitative since they're basically just part of the primary parts of a moves mechanics.

 

[Thinkaman]

A thought:

Patch 1.0.4 is actually patch 1.0.0.

On the WiiU, it very well might be numbered such.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Sheik and ZSS Need landing lag on aerials.....
RealTalk.....

Greninja needs a little nerf

 

[CE_TheLord]

is apparently not removed in the Wii U version and is the main advantage it has over Beat or Tornado Hold to begin with.

Please... tell me it's not a joke... ;-; You mean that rush cancelling still exists?!??

 

[BBC7]

Please... tell me it's not a joke... ;-; You mean that rush cancelling still exists?!??

A YouTuber by the name of JoeYoshi who owns the game claims that it still exists. Not to mention that the Mega Man community found little reason to believe it doesn't exist.

1. Hitstun cancelling is an inaccurate term, since you don't actually cancel hitstun at all. If it could cancel hitstun, then theoretically, Mega Man should almost never be able to die because he can just Up B every time he gets hit by a kill move such as a Smash, kind of like an overpowered version of Crouch Cancel in a sense. Rush Cancelling is simply hitting Up B as soon as weak hitstun is no longer active, before another hit can connect.

2. Rush Coil activates in 1 frame and can be used in the air. That means it is literally the fastest move in the game alongside other moves. It's not far-fetched to say that it is so quick, it can prevent attacks from comboing. Not many attacks are 1 frame. I doubt that they would change the frame data for the purpose of removing Rush Cancelling since Beat already sacrifices frames/cancelling for recovery, which is also proof that maybe Rush Cancelling was fully intended.

3. The first few frames of Rush Coil have invincibility which is why you can't hit Mega Man out of his Rush Coil and continue to combo him. This supports what I was saying about Rush Coil being extremely fast and hard to prevent. Again, this also may be proof that Rush Cancelling was intended because this invincibility seems insignificant for anything else and it's easy to imagine that the eject function was part of what Sakurai had in mind. Not to mention that this was found a day or two after the release of the game. If it was an unintended bug, the testers surely would have found it after all these months they spent developing the game.

By looking at these 3 points, we can conclude that Rush Cancel is not a glitch or a bug. The move just simply has the properties it requires in order to perform Rush Cancel.

 

[Locke 06]

Rush canceling cancels pre-tumble hitstun. If it were just 1-frame, you wouldn't be able to use Rush until after hitstun is done. This is why you can escape "true combos," or combos where the hits come before your first actionable frame out of hitstun. The MegaMan community is a little divided on whether this is a bug or not, but it's pretty clear to me that it's unnatural and a bug. You shouldn't be able to rush cancel out of peach's dsmash.

Intent is another issue (and a big one), but the misinformation of rush canceling should probably stop.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not like it matters since It doesn't break him.

 

[Locke 06]

It's definitely significant in more than a few matchups. It doesn't break him, but I wouldn't downplay its utility. Escaping out of Sheik's ftilt combos or having peach's dsmash do 5% against you instead of 14% is more than useful.

 

[Nobie]

If anything, I would argue that Mega Man pretty much needs Rush Canceling, because his lack of traditional tilts and the slowness of his Down Smash means he doesn't have a lot of "get off of me" moves, and Rush Coil fills that hole to a certain degree (though it does put him above his opponent which he isn't so good at handling either).

 

[KERO]

Greninja needs a little nerf

Based on the Gamestop demo (which is actually the full game), he got one. Usmash has a little more ending lag, allowing for easier punishes, and his Hydro Pump seems to have undergone a range nerf of sorts (and I think it also pushes back a little less...).

 

[LancerStaff]

A thought:

Patch 1.0.4 is actually patch 1.0.0.

On the WiiU, it very well might be numbered such.

Most games like this they'll keep the numbers the same for simplicity.

 

[Utena]

Sheik and ZSS Need landing lag on aerials.....
RealTalk.....

Greninja needs a little nerf

nah nah & nah

 

[chipndip]

nah nah & nah

That's so biased it's ridiculous.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

That's so biased it's ridiculous.

dunno if its biased but yeah. i do agree on nerfs of those three myself.
i hate this make other characters better nonsense people come up with for a justification to not have them nerfed.
like how do people propose you make ganon better without significantly changing hisbplay style? as in keep him slow and not adding projectiles.
ganon is supposed to capitalize on others mistakes. But when yoshi and freaking shiek can be so bloody safe with their approachs what else are you supposed to do? Nerf them thats what.

 

[chipndip]

dunno if its biased but yeah. i do agree on nerfs of those three myself.
i hate this make other characters better nonsense people come up with for a justification to not have them nerfed.
like how do people propose you make ganon better without significantly changing hisbplay style? as in keep him slow and not adding projectiles.
ganon is supposed to capitalize on others mistakes. But when yoshi and freaking shiek can be so bloody safe with their approachs what else are you supposed to do? Nerf them thats what.

To be fair, some characters just aren't designed to be all that amazing 1v1.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

To be fair, some characters just aren't designed to be all that amazing 1v1.

i was just using ganon as an example. i think hes quite good in my opinion. im just saying that those few characters are just entirly to safe. im sure my main pit is a 1v1 character but he is actually able to be punished reliably.

 

[chipndip]

i was just using ganon as an example. i think hes quite good in my opinion. im just saying that those few characters are just entirly to safe. im sure my main pit is a 1v1 character but he is actually able to be punished reliably.

I use Pit as a secondary to Yoshi, so that's surprising to hear. Pit needs good KO moves in his aerials, but outside of that he's totally fine. Yoshi is a safe fighter, but not nearly as much as Shiek or Zamus. Many of Yoshi's moves have weird flaws in them. Playing into their advantages is very rewarding, but if you can spot the spots to go in on, he's not as bad as you think he is. Based on my experience anyway.

Yoshi could stand for a nerf, but definitely not before Shiek or Zamus.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I use Pit as a secondary to Yoshi, so that's surprising to hear. Pit needs good KO moves in his aerials, but outside of that he's totally fine. Yoshi is a safe fighter, but not nearly as much as Shiek or Zamus. Many of Yoshi's moves have weird flaws in them. Playing into their advantages is very rewarding, but if you can spot the spots to go in on, he's not as bad as you think he is. Based on my experience anyway.

Yoshi could stand for a nerf, but definitely not before Shiek or Zamus.

to be fairly honest yoshi really does not need a nerf i beat them quite often.
the only nerf i could think of is making the spike box on the fair more precise since its quite a fast move unlike mario's.
for pit. i just feel his smashes need to come out faster so one can use them to punish kill. or there has to be a moment before you can shield a again.

 

[chipndip]

to be fairly honest yoshi really does not need a nerf i beat them quite often.
the only nerf i could think of is making the spike box on the fair more precise since its quite a fast move unlike mario's.
for pit. i just feel his smashes need to come out faster so one can use them to punish kill. or there has to be a moment before you can shield a again.

His f-air is a meteor when he hits from above. Same for Mario's f-air and DK's, so that would be a bad nerf. Honestly, instead of being hard on my own main, I'ma say the best method possible would be to just not buff him while buffing others. Maybe fix his weird f-smash hitbox, though. That's about it.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Nerf the damage on Yoshi's dair if you're gonna nerf him. That move does way too much damage. It can net around 30% that's a bit much.