Upcoming 1.0.4 Balance Patch in November!

[CE_TheLord]

I don't know what to nerf on Yoshi that'd make sense. Everything on him is already in a VERY careful equilibrium.

Also, every char deserves at least one aerial that KOs. Pit doesn't have much of that, and his ground KO moves are all risky.

I agree on that, but instead of giving him more aerial K.O moves, they should give more knockback and less lag to SideB and a bigger hit box on Dair to spike more easily

 

[chipndip]

I agree on that, but instead of giving him more aerial K.O moves, they should give more knockback and less lag to SideB and a bigger hit box on Dair to spike more easily

More knock back on Upperdash Arm is enough. It has super armor to beat out attacks, so making it more reliable when it does hit is already appreciable (with a hit like that, I'd expect it to KO properly nearing 120% without needing rage). The spike thing is also a good idea.

Actually, if they increased Upperdash's knock back and increased the spike hit-box on d-air, I'd be totally fine with Pit.

 

[Big O]

This isn't confirmed true at all, one person guessed that it was removed from the game and everyone took his word for it. Based off observations that Mega Man players found, Rush Cancelling isn't a bug or at least isn't exclusive to Mega Man's Up B. It seems as if every special move has pre-tumble hitstun cancelling which allows Mega Man to sometimes Rush Cancel out of a throw. Mega Man's Up B is just a notable example for actually being somewhat useful because it has invincibility, is only 1 frame and puts Mega Man in a position where you can't really continue your combo as well as you could've against other characters. A good example of what I mean when I say Rush Cancelling isn't exclusive to Mega Man is Pikachu's Down B. It doesn't do anything position-wise, but it still throws down a bolt of thunder. Not to mention that somebody who actually owns the game(YouTuber JoeYoshi) said that Rush Cancelling is still possible, although that's another case of taking someone's word. Some will still say that Rush Cancelling is a bug, but I believe that it is likely not. Unless special moves being able to cancel pre-tumble hitstun was unintended in general, which I don't feel it was.

I don't know why you keep spreading misinformation on Rush Canceling when numerous people have provided factual evidence to the contrary. Rush coil and a few other random specials like Diddy's Neutral B break out of weak hitstun early. If every special move could cancel hitstun like Rush Coil, Mario would be obnoxious tier with Super Jump Punch. At the very least check your claims in game before you post it as fact.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Do we have any idea when this update is supposed to even happen? They announced it, yet haven't actually put it out yet and it's been over a week now or so? Lol.

 

[Shaya]

I would bet WiiU release day.
Or the night before. Or day after at worse.

 

[BBC7]

I don't know why you keep spreading misinformation on Rush Canceling when numerous people have provided factual evidence to the contrary. Rush coil and a few other random specials like Diddy's Neutral B break out of weak hitstun early. If every special move could cancel hitstun like Rush Coil, Mario would be obnoxious tier with Super Jump Punch. At the very least check your claims in game before you post it as fact.

I'm just using what other people have said. I no longer have a functional 3DS so I have no way of telling whether what they're saying is factual. I'm just providing my theory, I don't know if anyone knows 100% why hitstun cancel occurs. Although...Super Jump Punch doesn't have invincibility like Rush Coil does, and there is no frame data to show if it is 1 frame or not. Our eyes are not enough to distinguish frame data. On the other hand, Pikachu's Down B does have invincibility further supporting my point since Pikachu's Down B can hitstun cancel.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm just using what other people have said. I no longer have a functional 3DS so I have no way of telling whether what they're saying is factual. I'm just providing my theory, I don't know if anyone knows 100% why hitstun cancel occurs. Although...Super Jump Punch doesn't have invincibility like Rush Coil does, and there is no frame data to show if it is 1 frame or not. Our eyes are not enough to distinguish frame data. On the other hand, Pikachu's Down B does have invincibility further supporting my point since Pikachu's Down B can hitstun cancel.

Pikachu's Down-B combo breaker is a COMPLETELY different thing.

The thunderbolt may or may not be frame 1. Pikachu literally is out of hitstun when he activates it, and the bolt continues to travel even when he gets hit.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Basically you can't Thunder out of something like someone's multi hit uair, but you CAN rush cancel out of it.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Pikachu's Down-B combo breaker is a COMPLETELY different thing.

The thunderbolt may or may not be frame 1. Pikachu literally is out of hitstun when he activates it, and the bolt continues to travel even when he gets hit.

Thunder's bolt was already confirmed to have frame 1 activation.

 

[BBC7]

Basically you can't Thunder out of something like someone's multi hit uair, but you CAN rush cancel out of it.

Like I said, Rush Coil is notable for changing your direction. Pikachu will still descend into those hits while trying to Thunderbolt. Mega Man will just jump out of those hits.

 

[Big O]

Pika's Thunder can punish strings, but it doesn't cancel hitstun. It is technically not a combo breaker. It only works if it wasn't really a combo.

Anyway's I hope the patch comes soon. Best thing about it will be the end of all this speculation.

 

[BBC7]

Pika's Thunder can punish strings, but it doesn't cancel hitstun. It is technically not a combo breaker. It only works if it wasn't really a combo.

Anyway's I hope the patch comes soon. Best thing about it will be the end of all this speculation.

Nothing is really a combo in this game, honestly.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Nothing is really a combo in this game, honestly.

That's "Brawl 2.0" logic. Makes me think of a mass of Smash 4 players going back to Melee and Project M like they did to Brawl. How gruesome.

But Sheik Fairs and Bowser Jr's Mechakoopa into aerials are combos.

 

[Yackabean]

Hitstun cancel may be silly. But as a Toon Link main. I can say the loss of item toss cancelling is detrimental to him right now, without it he is a slower rendition of brawl toon link without barely any useful tech skill that will help him in competitive games.

Really disappointed if it's gone.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

There are combos. But they don't produce hard locks like that do in say, Melee. It's mostly due to the momentum mechanics in Brawl and Smash 4 that interfere with this and create the idea that there aren't combos.

 

[Shaya]

Hitstun is the same story as in Melee really, the only difference here is that you can air dodge out of tumble, while in Melee you could only attack (disproportionally empowering characters with sex kick aerials/nairs: i.e. all the top tiers bar marth/falcon).

I notice the difference a lot and I think it's the best solution really, air dodging is still really good, but you will always have the positional advantage from a hit and don't have to deal with any variation in choices for at least a certain amount of time as well. Frame trapping is a lot easier in this game than in Brawl and was still allowing aggressive play in a lot of situations for good characters.

 

[kyxsune]

Heres hoping Zelda's Down B gets buffed somewhat....and a robin level movement speed

 

[Thinkaman]

Hitstun is the same story as in Melee really, the only difference here is that you can air dodge out of tumble, while in Melee you could only attack (disproportionally empowering characters with sex kick aerials/nairs: i.e. all the top tiers bar marth/falcon).

I notice the difference a lot and I think it's the best solution really, air dodging is still really good, but you will always have the positional advantage from a hit and don't have to deal with any variation in choices for at least a certain amount of time as well. Frame trapping is a lot easier in this game than in Brawl and was still allowing aggressive play in a lot of situations for good characters.

The issue in Brawl of course was that at low levels of ground knockback you could air dodge at no cost by going into the ground and avoiding the vulnerable window, which is no longer the case. #22frames

 

[Kage Me]

Heres hoping Zelda's Down B gets buffed somewhat....and a robin level movement speed

I just hope Din's Fire won't push me off the ledge in a helpless state anymore. Seriously, why does it even do that? =/

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Nothing is really a combo in this game, honestly.

Villager axe chop (hit) into Timber (fall) is a combo I hit people with sometimes. Axe hit sends them reeling and then the tree falls on them for 40%+ damage and OHKO at most percents over 30%

The problem is, this is ridiculously situational

 

[byebye]

Nothing is really a combo in this game, honestly.

True / natural combos are rhythm games inside a fighting game, as a mini game / qte, honestly.

 

[Funkermonster]

I know I'm gonna get hate for this, but hopefully the patch (or any of the) will do something about rolling and make them a little slower. I know, they aren't broken and can still be punished with proper reads, but I personally still find it to kill some of the fun and be soooo annoying. Imo, the worst offenders at rolling are:

It's great that they're viable and finally fulfill the purpose they were made for, but still. Not broken, but super annoying.

 

[Locke 06]

I know I'm gonna get hate for this, but hopefully the patch (or any of the) will do something about rolling and make them a little slower. I know, they aren't broken and can still be punished with proper reads, but I personally still find it to kill some of the fun and be soooo annoying. Imo, the worst offenders at rolling are:

It's great that they're viable and finally fulfill the purpose they were made for, but still. Not broken, but super annoying.

Samus' roll is super slow... It's invulnerable for longer, but I find it to be one of the worse roll spam options...

Your lack of sonic in that list though. He rolls like Mac.

 

[Funkermonster]

Samus' roll is super slow... It's invulnerable for longer, but I find it to be one of the worse roll spam options...

Your lack of sonic in that list though. He rolls like Mac.

Yeah, I'm aware her roll is super slow. Its not the speed I worry about though, it's the distance that ticks me off plus the invulnerability. I probably wouldn't be feeling this way if For Glory had stages other than FD and Omega stages so she couldn't roll aay and spam so many projectiles, but it still feels like a drag to fight her for it even when I win the game.

I agree with Sonic's roll being annoying too though, despite that I play him as a tertiary. You think I would've noticed that..

 

[BBC7]

Let me rephrase something I previously said.

There aren't many true combos in this game.

 

[Locke 06]

Let me rephrase something I previously said.

There aren't many true combos in this game.

In a vacuum, there are a lot of true combos in this game. jab1-jab2-multijab-finisher is a true combo. If someone were to list all the true combos in the game, you'd tell them to stop midway through.

I think what you're reaching for here is a comparative statement.

@Emblem Lord - Honestly, I think shield breaker is too good. Comparatively, DK's headbutt is harder to land and does 90% shield damage while you can charge yours for a slight second and break every shield. I would nerf its shield damage slightly so that you need to charge it a little more to break 100% shields.

 

[ChikoLad]

I know I'm gonna get hate for this, but hopefully the patch (or any of the) will do something about rolling and make them a little slower. I know, they aren't broken and can still be punished with proper reads, but I personally still find it to kill some of the fun and be soooo annoying. Imo, the worst offenders at rolling are:

It's great that they're viable and finally fulfill the purpose they were made for, but still. Not broken, but super annoying.

I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure Palutena's roll is basically the same as Rosalina's. I know it's a warp. But maybe it's slower or has less distance, I'm not sure.

Mega Man also has a deceptively tricky role, IMO (I used it to my advantage a lot so that's why I think so).

 

[Lemon Girl]

Shields still take damage if you powershield they take significantly less though. You can power shield SB to eat it, but you can't repeatedly take it in even if you PS them all.

CPUs ALWAYS powershield against shieldbreakers and it never seems to weaken, like at all.

 

[Locke 06]

Shield breaker uncharged does like 75-80% of a shield and ramps up to 100 quick.
Wizard kick does like 60%, same with DK headbutt.
I think pound is 50%ish.
Stone is 40% or something like that.

Pretty sure dk headbutt does ~ 90% as it's very close to breaking.

 

[Werewolf25]

>Data from Smash online on 3DS is collected before and during the period that Smash Wii U is going through QA
>Balance changes ensue, all bugs and "advanced techniques" removed
>These changes then retroactively applied to the 3DS version via a patch
I predicted this as soon as they announced the separate release dates

>Bizarre, bug-embracing Smash fanbase get massively butthurt about it
I predicted that as well

 

[DarkKiru]

>Data from Smash online on 3DS is collected before and during the period that Smash Wii U is going through QA
>Balance changes ensue, all bugs and "advanced techniques" removed
>These changes then retroactively applied to the 3DS version via a patch
I predicted this as soon as they announced the separate release dates

>Bizarre, bug-embracing Smash fanbase get massively butthurt about it
I predicted that as well

Wouldn't really say "all" things got removed, only 3 things did (and all 3 of them were item related to my knowledge), theres still an ENORMOUS amount of AT's; a good majority of them just involving the physics engine (which is significantly harder to modify post release). Theres likely to be many we haven't even discovered either.

 

[CE_TheLord]

Exactly what @ DarkKiru said... I mean, you can't expect a full-fleshed metagame with every AT discovered in a game that was released like a month ago... People is becoming way too impatient with Smash 4, IMO that hurts the game a lot... Let the metagame evolve in Smash 4 like in every Smash Bros. game up to date.

 

[Shaya]

Strike two.. if you want to discuss how to change/buff a character, why not do it at your character board so it isn't full of ignorant assumptions and also doesn't annoy me after two previous warnings. Otherwise character impressions thread.

#_#

 

[BBC7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ1xvePopsA

Rush cancelling is nerfed, not removed. Just putting this out there.

 

[Locke 06]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ1xvePopsA

Rush cancelling is nerfed, not removed. Just putting this out there.

... What? That video is showing that it is removed...

 

[BBC7]

... What? That video is showing that it is removed...

Is it? I can't tell anymore, having a broken 3DS is harming my credibility nowadays.

 

[Locke 06]

Lol. Don't worry about it. I see what you're seeing, and I think that is the more intuitive "rush escape" as it's not canceling anything. You're just getting out of the imperfect combo that is Mario's utilt chain. It's the same with pikachu's thunder. Rush canceling happens directly after the hit (like in the video where it was "discovered," he rush cancels out of mario's dthrow right after MegaMan hits the ground).

 

[KEWB]

RIP Side B out of Dair. ;(

 

[BBC7]

Mega Man U-Air hitbox suddenly seems like an interesting topic now that Rush Cancelling is confirmed out. Although I digress, that is something we pretty much cannot test until the game comes out, and I doubt people that do own the game are interested in seeing if the Air Shooter is legitimately larger. There are more interesting things to talk about in their opinion.

 

[Teshie U]

Mega Man U-Air hitbox suddenly seems like an interesting topic now that Rush Cancelling is confirmed out. Although I digress, that is something we pretty much cannot test until the game comes out, and I doubt people that do own the game are interested in seeing if the Air Shooter is legitimately larger. There are more interesting things to talk about in their opinion.

I think this is just an example of them doing more with the HD graphics. The hitbox on 3DS U Air is noticeably larger than the ugly blue lines in the animation. I think they just matched the animation better int he Wii U verison.

It would be a silly thing to buff honestly, as its already a unique and amazing aerial that does a ton of damage.