Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Guynamednelson]

I think the real reason why BK isn't the FE echo is because Ike drifted too far away from the "strong but slow" style of balance. Remember, Ken isn't how echoes are supposed to be.

 

[Robertman2]

Eight Spirits, three songs, and two Mii Costumes is "far too much" to you?

No, you just hate Xenoblade 2.

Exactly!

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I think the real reason why BK isn't the FE echo is because Ike drifted too far away from the "strong but slow" style of balance. Remember, Ken isn't how echoes are supposed to be.

It was more likely because Black Knight's armour gives him a much different frame from Ike, on top of BK being much taller when it seems heights are the same between parent and echo. Too many unfortunate differences, though he absolutely would have worked as an Isabelle style semi-clone.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, priortizing an Ike semi clone of Black Knight to Chrom would have been a much more interesting choice. I agree with all the notions of Awakening itself being over-represented. Black Knight would have given us a semi clone villain that could have been much more of the true heavyweight and brought some nice visual diversity to the FE characters.

Another unpopular opinion on the topic of Fire Emblem, we need a spear character from that series more than anyone else who wields a spear because that's the ****ing weapon triangle at the core of Fire Emblem. Same goes for an axe user. I don't care that they're more Fire Emblem characters, I just want the series to have some actual proper representation.

 

[Anacybele]

Another unpopular opinion on the topic of Fire Emblem, we need a spear character from that series more than anyone else who wields a spear because that's the ****ing weapon triangle at the core of Fire Emblem. Same goes for an axe user. I don't care that they're more Fire Emblem characters, I just want the series to have some actual proper representation.

Yeah, this too, and I don't think there's anyone better to fill the lance-wielding role here than Ephraim! He's popular, the most notable lance wielder in the series, etc. He's my favorite lord after Ike too!

Axe wielder would definitely be Hector.

 

[Idon]

Alright, I'm tired of this.

Asking for a spear or axe user to "fill out the weapon triangle" is stupid.
It's on the same level as asking for a grass type to fill out the starter-type triangle or blue toad to fill out the mario quartet or bandanna waddle dee for the Kirby quartet or asking for an anima light-magic user (Micaiah) to fill out the FE magic triangle (Yeah, remember that the magic has its own triangle?) or the rest of the DK crew to fill out DK's partners, or Slippy Toad for the Starfox crew, or whatever.
Make no mistake, all these characters have their own merits for being in, but not just because they fill out some arbitrary quota.

If you're going to push for a character, push for a character you actually like beyond their most basic ****ing traits.

Fire Emblem doesn't "need" an axe or spear user. The only thing it "needs" are characters people actually like.

 

[Sabertooth]

Idon you hit the nail on the head.

Also, I don't care if there's too many sword-using FE characters. The solution is not adding even more of them. The FE situation is disgusting beyond repair, just leave it alone.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

I'm quite suprised at how many people still think Geno has even a sliver of a chance.

 

[Anacybele]

Sorry, I honestly just want a lance wielder since none have ever been in this series and Ephraim's my favorite in that category. I don't really care about adding the whole weapon triangle. My mistake.

I only mentioned Hector because the person I replied to mentioned axes.

 

[Idon]

Sorry, I honestly just want a lance wielder since none have ever been in this series and Ephraim's my favorite in that category. I don't really care about adding the whole weapon triangle. My mistake.

I only mentioned Hector because the person I replied to mentioned axes.

Pft, it's fine to like whoever.
In fact, I think Hector's my favorite Lord, if not top 3.

The issue is all the traits associated with the FE characters is boiled down to "what does he have in his hand" and I'm super sick of that.

 

[StaticXY]

Challenger Approaching should be as tough as it is, so that it feels more rewarding to unlock them rather than a regular grind.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they nerf them down in the rematches anyway, right? So it's not really that bad to get them all, contrary to what many are claiming.

 

[Calamitas]

Xenoblade 2 has far too much content in Ultimate.

It is true and you should say it.
Especially when considering that X has five Spirits (none of which are in WoL), no Mii costumes, no songs, and isn't even mentioned in Ultimate's internal listing of games that it pulls content from.

 

[Sabertooth]

I'm starting to get sick of people justifying typically unpopular characters like Steve or a Three Houses rep because they would "make sense" to add. Maybe they would, Mr. Backseat Businessman - though that's a pretty nebulous criterion for inclusion, if you ask me - but I really don't see why that means I should like them. Like, this character that fans hate would benefit X corporation, so I, a consumer, should be happy that they're in... what? That line of logic makes literally no sense to me. Quite the contrary, if a character is added solely to advertise something, I most certainly am not going to like them because I actually think about how I spend my money, and I find the idea that I'll instantly throw my money at any shiny product that's waved in front of my face for half a second pretty damn patronizing. I dunno, maybe that's just me, but I frankly don't see how anyone could enjoy being bent over a table and ****ed by corporations instead of getting a character people actually want. Do people just like being told what they want or something?
(And before some smartass inevitably breaches the one rule of the thread and calls me out on that last line, no, I am obviously not implying that literally nobody wants Steve, or Edelgard, or any promotional character. See: hyperbole. I am pretty certain, however, that many more people would be ****ing livid at their inclusion.)

SAY ITLOUDERFORTHEPEOPLEINTHEBACK

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Alright, I'm tired of this.

Asking for a spear or axe user to "fill out the weapon triangle" is stupid.
It's on the same level as asking for a grass type to fill out the starter-type triangle or blue toad to fill out the mario quartet or bandanna waddle dee for the Kirby quartet or asking for an anima light-magic user (Micaiah) to fill out the FE magic triangle (Yeah, remember that the magic has its own triangle?) or the rest of the DK crew to fill out DK's partners, or Slippy Toad for the Starfox crew, or whatever.
Make no mistake, all these characters have their own merits for being in, but not just because they fill out some arbitrary quota.

If you're going to push for a character, push for a character you actually like beyond their most basic ****ing traits.

Fire Emblem doesn't "need" an axe or spear user. The only thing it "needs" are characters people actually like.

Bro. You took the words out of my mouth. Preach it!

A character should be added as a fighter because people want them in, not because they meet a quota. And it goes beyond Fire Emblem. I hate the notion that Mario and Pokemon should always have a newcomer in every Smash simply to fill some quota. Although we would probably get a newcomer from those series regardless, it should be because people want them in the game, not because we have to have a Mario or Pokemon newcomer no matter what.

 

[StaticXY]

Bro. You took the words out of my mouth. Preach it!

A character should be added as a fighter because people want them in, not because they meet a quota. And it goes beyond Fire Emblem. I hate the notion that Mario and Pokemon should always have a newcomer in every Smash simply to fill some quota. Although we would probably get a newcomer from those series regardless, it should be because people want them in the game, not because we have to have a Mario or Pokemon newcomer no matter what.

I totally agree that people shouldn't request fighters to fill an arbitrary quota, but I do think people requesting Pokemon for that specific reason have a point. We've seen a new Pokemon rep added to each Smash game, and since Brawl it's matched whatever new Gen is out when Smash releases. As a result, we basically know that a new Pokemon is going to get added each game, regardless of people asking for them or not. Thus, it's a justification for requesting another Pokemon character, and allows the community to voice which of the pool of new Pokemon they'd prefer.

Apart from that, though, I definitely stand with your opinion.

 

[osby]

Bro. You took the words out of my mouth. Preach it!

A character should be added as a fighter because people want them in, not because they meet a quota. And it goes beyond Fire Emblem. I hate the notion that Mario and Pokemon should always have a newcomer in every Smash simply to fill some quota. Although we would probably get a newcomer from those series regardless, it should be because people want them in the game, not because we have to have a Mario or Pokemon newcomer no matter what.

Mario didn't have a newcomer in Brawl.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Side note: Mario gets characters each game (bar Brawl) because the cast of that series are popular.

 

[StaticXY]

Side note: Mario gets characters each game (bar Brawl) because the cast of that series are popular.

As are the cast for Pokemon, who also gets newcomers every game.

However, once Mario, Pokemon, and FE are excluded, is there really a series with consistent newcomers left to complain about?

 

[Wyoming]

Mario didn't have a newcomer in Brawl.

I know he represents his own series really well, but Wario kind of counts as one to most people.

 

[osby]

I know he represents his own series really well, but Wario kind of counts as one to most people.

Maybe, but that takes away from the "quota filling" argument OP was suggesting.

 

[Wyoming]

Pokemon does actually have a "quota" of sorts with every game: the latest or newest generation gets a newcomer for business purposes. However, GameFreak does a good job knowing who will be popular that it doesn't matter (as of yet?)

Mario could justify adding anyone into Smash. Obviously I prefer as much diversity as possible, but saying "Mario only fills a quota" is vastly underselling the series' importance and popularity haha.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

As are the cast for Pokemon, who also gets newcomers every game.

However, once Mario, Pokemon, and FE are excluded, is there really a series with consistent newcomers left to complain about?

This is what one of my problems is - why are ancillary characters from other franchises called out for being one-offs, when some of them are more iconic than a quarter of the roster themselves?

I’m actually happy to see an older character with a fanbase (K. Rool, who’s been MIA for ten years and hasn’t been a DK boss since 99’s DK64) get into Smash over some of the new one-trick ponies from other franchises. I like Smash as a mixture of old and new - focusing on just the new characters or just the long-runners is cutting things off. Besides, Nintendo makes games with rotating casts, so most are one-game wonders; games with constant casts so most are recurring; and games with a core main cast and rotating secondary characters. Why is it only this third case where one-offs are not iconic enough to get in?

Note: this isn’t a criticism in any way. I just saw that statement and it got me thinking.

 

[YoshiandToad]

As are the cast for Pokemon, who also gets newcomers every game.

However, once Mario, Pokemon, and FE are excluded, is there really a series with consistent newcomers left to complain about?

I'd also add Zelda. Holy crap is Zelda ever an untapped well of newcomers. Tingle, Impa, the champions, Ganon, Skull Kid, Vaati, Midna, Ghirahim, Tetra, Zant....

 

[Just a random scrub]

Speaking on echos; another unpopular opinion: Hector would not be a good Ike echo, like at all. I understand most echo suggestions, but this one always confuses me.

 

[Gallerian]

Speaking on echos; another unpopular opinion: Hector would not be a good Ike echo, like at all. I understand most echo suggestions, but this one always confuses me.

Actually, I can sort of see Hector as an Ike echo.

Take a look at Ike's attacks, plenty of those moves look like he would be swinging a heavy axe around instead of a sword. I'm not saying he should be an Ike echo, but it's something not completely impossible.

 

[staindgrey]

Idon you hit the nail on the head.

Also, I don't care if there's too many sword-using FE characters. The solution is not adding even more of them. The FE situation is disgusting beyond repair, just leave it alone.

You lost me at the bolded part. I almost agreed with you.

Like, disgusting? Odd word choice for an ensemble of fictional characters.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This is what one of my problems is - why are ancillary characters from other franchises called out for being one-offs, when some of them are more iconic than a quarter of the roster themselves?

Any first parties that fit that description?

 

[staindgrey]

Any first parties that fit that description?

Sheik? She's a side character in one Zelda game. She's an iconic part of four Smash Bros. games.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the question.

 

[Idon]

Speaking of Sheik, they should've cut her long ago and replaced her with Impa.

Don't even change anything, just make her Impa. Her final smash in ultimate in isn't even Zelda in disguise anymore, just Sheikah ninja stuff.

 

[osby]

Speaking of Sheik, they should've cut her long ago and replaced her with Impa.

Don't even change anything, just make her Impa. Her final smash in ultimate in isn't even Zelda in disguise anymore, just Sheikah ninja stuff.

*points at echo concept*

 

[Idon]

*points at echo concept*

Sure, but that's missing my point. Impa should've been given way more importance. Sheik really had no purpose in Zelda outside of OoT.

 

[staindgrey]

Sure, but that's missing my point. Impa should've been given way more importance. Sheik really had no purpose in Zelda outside of OoT.

It all comes down to Sheik being in the earlier concepts for Twilight Princess, a game in which Impa wasn't present. So for Brawl, Sheik came back, unlike Young Link, Pichu and Roy, all considered one-offs at the time. That solidified her as a Smash icon, even if she wasn't a Zelda icon.

But I agree. Changing to Impa in her OoT/HW style makes more sense from a representation perspective. I could even argue having three different Zeldas like how we have three different Links, but that's just my bias showing.

 

[Luigifan18]

Speaking of Sheik, they should've cut her long ago and replaced her with Impa.

Don't even change anything, just make her Impa. Her final smash in ultimate in isn't even Zelda in disguise anymore, just Sheikah ninja stuff.

*points at echo concept*

Sure, but that's missing my point. Impa should've been given way more importance. Sheik really had no purpose in Zelda outside of OoT.

It all comes down to Sheik being in the earlier concepts for Twilight Princess, a game in which Impa wasn't present. So for Brawl, Sheik came back, unlike Young Link, Pichu and Roy, all considered one-offs at the time. That solidified her as a Smash icon, even if she wasn't a Zelda icon.

But I agree. Changing to Impa in her OoT/HW style makes more sense from a representation perspective. I could even argue having three different Zeldas like how we have three different Links, but that's just my bias showing.

This would possibly be a good idea, if not for the cavalcade of "Where the **** is Shiek" complaints it would provoke.

 

[Dee Dude]

-It’s time Luigi gets his own icon. Luigi’s Mansion has more then enough titles to warrant a separate sub series.
“But Luigi has always been a Mario character and he debuted in the series!” So did Yoshi and Wario, what’s your point?

-World Of Light is a waste of time, maybe it’s because I haven’t gotten fair into to it but it really is just a glorified Event Mode with a few bosses slapped into it, Subspace 2 please.

-As nice, hard-working and passionate he is, Sakurai is indeed an overrated director/developer.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Spirits and World of Light seem to have received a very 50/50 reception among the community: either you love it or hate it. It's interesting, but for me I've been greatly enjoying the mode much, much more than I expected. I like the idea of a meaty, varied campaign as opposed to middling sidescroller levels with borked controls and bland enemies.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The Black Knight would indeed be a more interesting echo than Chrom but in the end suffers the same fate. He wouldn't add anything to Smash that we don't already have. And I agree that the oversaturation of FE fighters is disgusting, Sabertooth .

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Any first parties that fit that description?

For me - Zelda series.

In the last 18 years, it's impossible to anticipate anything without at least one person making a "Dawn of the Final Day" joke. The mask itself is incredibly recognizable. People rioted when he wasn't included in Hyrule Warriors. Meanwhile, Midna from TP got the most characterization by far for any of Link's companions, was actually the title character and more important to the story than Zelda herself, and got two separate movesets in Hyrule Warriors.

On the other hand, there are two Smash characters who still never made it out of Japan outside of Smash , and several characters who have exist in one game only outside of Smash .

People like to point out that "Fire Emblem has an entirely rotating cast, so they should have one (or three) characters from each game, but Zelda has the triforce trio and unimportant one-offs" as an explanation. It really seems like some series are allowed to get one-off characters, but no matter how good or iconic a Zelda characters is, the best they can hope for is an assist because they're not in every other game.

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

I find WoL, and Spirit Boards to be incredibly frustrating to play (I'm currently plaything WoL on hard). A lot of the matches are eithr mind numbingly easy, or just stupidly hard. I played one match where I had to fight 4 mini Snakes & Dr. Mario whiles tons of explosive items spawned, and it was on the Halbred stage so I had to worry about the claw, laser beam, and canon ball. That **** wasn't fun, and unforunately there ton of matches like that where it's just an absolute cluster-****. Then you get the matches where you can just spam f-smash, and the brain dead AI will never attack you. It also doesn't help that a lot of the matches are the exact same thing (battle with fog, battle with poision, electric floors, etc...). What makes it even worse is that some of the awards are also the same, and just feel really useless at times. Like, thanks for 900th fire resist spirit game (when I already have one that grants completely immunity to fire).

 

[UserKev]

I don't want King K. Rool to be nerfed. He's the perfect jab to the just as op human anime wielders. Make Smash Nintendo again.

 

[Calamitas]

For me - Zelda series.

In the last 18 years, it's impossible to anticipate anything without at least one person making a "Dawn of the Final Day" joke. The mask itself is incredibly recognizable. People rioted when he wasn't included in Hyrule Warriors. Meanwhile, Midna from TP got the most characterization by far for any of Link's companions, was actually the title character and more important to the story than Zelda herself, and got two separate movesets in Hyrule Warriors.

On the other hand, there are two Smash characters who still never made it out of Japan outside of Smash , and several characters who have exist in one game only outside of Smash .

People like to point out that "Fire Emblem has an entirely rotating cast, so they should have one (or three) characters from each game, but Zelda has the triforce trio and unimportant one-offs" as an explanation. It really seems like some series are allowed to get one-off characters, but no matter how good or iconic a Zelda characters is, the best they can hope for is an assist because they're not in every other game.

Come to think of it, Ganondorf himself is just barely above being a one-off himself. He has appeared in a grand total of three games (not counting Hyrule Warriors and his concept art for the Oracle games), far less than his original Ganon form has. He's even being counted as a character that originated in 1998, even though he has been around since 1986.
. . .I realize that this doesn't exactly relate to what you said, but I still wanted to point it out. Zelda characters deserve better. Maybe one of the DLC packs is finally going to fix that. . .