Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The lack of Trophies isn't actually a Veteran returning(and thus lots of stuff being worked on), it's because they were hard to make and took a ton of time to make every model and render work. A simple jpeg picture was significantly more efficient. The only weakness is... the lack of full descriptions. But it still was more efficient in cramming as much in there as possible.

The game was rushed regardless, but Trophies just weren't a good idea anymore. It was too much manpower.

 

[Idon]

I'm okay with the next Smash not bringing everyone back.

 

[SmasherMaster]

The only cuts I am okay with are hardware limitations and 3rd Party legal issues. And I would rather have delay of a couple of years if it meant we get to keep this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

After playing Smash 4 and Brawl, I honestly love that Charizard works well as solo or part of a team. I'd like that kind of option. Basically having Pokemon Trainer as one slot, and the other 3 as their own different slots. It might seem like it fills up the screen a bit, but this could lead to an interesting meta. Choosing PT might be more beneficial at times because you can get over certain weaknesses that one Pokemon has. This makes both strategic.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Charizard and Olimar should have gotten echoes over some of the others.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Charizard and Olimar should have gotten echoes over some of the others.

True. True.

I was pushing for Storm Eagle as a Charizard echo and Toad as an Olimar one, but alas, I guess until next time.

Waluigi would have been great as a Ridley echo also.

 

[Idon]

Storm Eagle

how would that even work? Especially for the moves that use Charizard's elongated neck

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

how would that even work? Especially for the moves that use Charizard's elongated neck

Don't ask me, I'm no game developer

 

[Idon]

Don't ask me, I'm no game developer

If you can't imagine how something would work, why would you push for it?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

If you can't imagine how something would work, why would you push for it?

I'm also pushing for the next Nintendo console to be able to pour me coffee, cook fried chicken and do my taxes as well.

 

[TheYungLink]

The near-lack of any significant differences moveset-wise that Daisy and Richter have with their bases (Peach and Simon) just makes me even sadder that Alph is still an alternate skin for Olimar. Alph looks so weird with Olimar's animations, give him unique facial and standing animations, unique taunts and victory poses if the devs still don'twant to give them Rock Pikmin. If that's all it took to justify making Daisy and Richter separate (which I'm more than happy with btw) then Alph should be upgraded at LEAST that tiny amount as well.

 

[Idon]

The near-lack of any significant differences moveset-wise that Daisy and Richter have with their bases (Peach and Simon) just makes me even sadder that Alph is still an alternate skin for Olimar. Alph looks so weird with Olimar's animations, give him unique facial and standing animations, unique taunts and victory poses if the devs still don'twant to give them Rock Pikmin. If that's all it took to justify making Daisy and Richter separate (which I'm more than happy with btw) then Alph should be upgraded at LEAST that tiny amount as well.

Or if you're going to make Alph an alt costume, at least make the other captains costumes as well.
Like Louie.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Feel free to call me a contrarian for this, but I hate 90% of the characters most fans have been pushing for to be in this game. It feels like people are scraping the bottom of the barrel for the most obscure/uninteresting characters possible to spam in fake 4Chan leaks ad nauseam. I can’t for the life of me understand the appeal of some boring Mario side character that was only in one mediocre spinoff game 20 years ago, yet people keep spamming him to the point where I physically groan every time I see his render in clickbait thumbnails. At least Ridley and K. Rool were major characters in their own franchises instead of some one-off nobodies, even if some people were kinda annoying about them (tho I’ll admit I actually really wanted Ridley cuz I thought it’d be funny if he made it in in spite of the “too big” memes).

Conversely, I think characters like Minecraft Steve and Sans Undertale get way too much flack. I’m not even that big of a Minecraft fan but I think people get way too reactionary whenever Steve comes up, as if a character from a harmless kids game is going to ruin the artistic integrity of another kids game (not to trivialize the effort that went into this game, but we need to be real about who Nintendo’s target demographic is). Sans gets the same kneejerk reactions out of people who think his game is “cringey”, but I noticed that people have kinda started to embrace him as a weird meme pick after Deltarune and the Joker reveal, so maybe people won’t make too much of a stink if it does happen, but I’m doubtful. I could go on a rant about how unfairly treated these characters are because of their weird anti-fandoms that get upset over kids having fun, but that’s for another thread. It’s okay to not want those characters, but I wish people had reasons aside from “the fanbase is bad” or whatever bs that has nothing to do with the characters themselves. I just don’t want people throwing fits if one of them somehow gets in.

 

[Idon]

I can’t for the life of me understand the appeal of some boring Mario side character that was only in one mediocre spinoff game 20 years ago

People like the game they came from and want it represented in Smash.
It's really that simple, though I personally don't see the appeal and do agree with most of your points.

 

[Madwario]

Its not fun having three extremely fast opponents lightpunching you all the time while picking items and trophies all over the screen resulting in instant death..

 

[osby]

Its not fun having three extremely fast opponents lightpunching you all the time while picking items and trophies all over the screen resulting in instant death..

Not sure what you are talking about, but I doubt many people would find your description fun.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Feel free to call me a contrarian for this, but I hate 90% of the characters most fans have been pushing for to be in this game. It feels like people are scraping the bottom of the barrel for the most obscure/uninteresting characters possible to spam in fake 4Chan leaks ad nauseam. I can’t for the life of me understand the appeal of some boring Mario side character that was only in one mediocre spinoff game 20 years ago, yet people keep spamming him to the point where I physically groan every time I see his render in clickbait thumbnails. At least Ridley and K. Rool were major characters in their own franchises instead of some one-off nobodies, even if some people were kinda annoying about them (tho I’ll admit I actually really wanted Ridley cuz I thought it’d be funny if he made it in in spite of the “too big” memes).

Conversely, I think characters like Minecraft Steve and Sans Undertale get way too much flack. I’m not even that big of a Minecraft fan but I think people get way too reactionary whenever Steve comes up, as if a character from a harmless kids game is going to ruin the artistic integrity of another kids game (not to trivialize the effort that went into this game, but we need to be real about who Nintendo’s target demographic is). Sans gets the same kneejerk reactions out of people who think his game is “cringey”, but I noticed that people have kinda started to embrace him as a weird meme pick after Deltarune and the Joker reveal, so maybe people won’t make too much of a stink if it does happen, but I’m doubtful. I could go on a rant about how unfairly treated these characters are because of their weird anti-fandoms that get upset over kids having fun, but that’s for another thread. It’s okay to not want those characters, but I wish people had reasons aside from “the fanbase is bad” or whatever bs that has nothing to do with the characters themselves. I just don’t want people throwing fits if one of them somehow gets in.

I agree with your entire first paragraph. As for the second one, people will bash characters if they think they're competition for a "spot" for their most wanted instead. It's not just Steve and Sans who are getting hated on. It's almost every character request.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The near-lack of any significant differences moveset-wise that Daisy and Richter have with their bases (Peach and Simon) just makes me even sadder that Alph is still an alternate skin for Olimar. Alph looks so weird with Olimar's animations, give him unique facial and standing animations, unique taunts and victory poses if the devs still don't want to give them Rock Pikmin. If that's all it took to justify making Daisy and Richter separate (which I'm more than happy with btw) then Alph should be upgraded at LEAST that tiny amount as well.

The focus is more on the Pikmin than the Captains. It makes a lot of sense why he's just an alt. He isn't as important. The Rock Pikmin requires an all new model and takes a lot longer to do than other Echoes. It'd make more sense to wait for more Pikmin and actually have Alph use those, to make it fully worth it. Otherwise you might as well just add the model over the Purple Pikmin with no differences otherwise and make it so Alph only uses those as an alt. Which is also a lot of work when Alph being a costume still represents the franchise accurately(as he literally doesn't do anything unique at all from Olimar. They play identically in their base game. The only thing of note was always different Pikmin. Now splitting up the Pikmin so they each have 3 each could work in separating them. But they both need to fill different from each other. Doing the bare minimum actually still requires a lot of work and playtesting. There is no easy to use Rock Pikmin model. It can't simply replace one and be done with it. Also, there's a reason chance Sakurai can't think of how to make the Rock Pikmin stand out from the Purple Pikmon. Besides that, they did want to implement the Rock ones in 4, yet couldn't. Not enough time, presumably. Alph was separately considered to be a clone(whether or not that meant Echo specifically with how design is hard to say. Giving him all different Pikmin would still make him a clone after all. Also, in order for Alph to be an Echo, it means his moveset has to have few differences. And I don't see decent counterparts for every single Pikmin to replace. Just one model they had no time for. In addition... Smash Ultimate was rushed. Trying to make an echo that takes a lot more work than necessary when Pikmin is already heavily represented by something other than the Captains is asinine. In a later Smash, it'd be easier as long as the game isn't forced to be rushed.

None of the Captains much stand out on their own and the series is literally focused on how important the Pikmin are. We saw this with Pokemon Trainer too. He's just the "controller". He's not the key character in the same way. Olimar was also meant to be played using the Pikmin fully. Nolimar was an unintended consequence of the moveset. There's also no tangible differences among any Captain. Even Daisy has some differences, including personality. Her aesthetics were a necessity to make her interesting. Which isn't applicable to Alph since what he needs are different Pikmin to make him stand out. Also, while it's true that Daisy doesn't have big differences in frame data(stuff like that), she couldn't work as an alt with her personality and huge graphical differences. She also is notable as a character on her own. She doesn't rely on a set of monsters she controls/teams up with to stand out. Alph does. It's the same with the other Echoes. They work on their own. The reality is it's extremely important to not forget that the Pikmin are a focus of the moveset and need to matter too. This is evidenced by 4 making them even more intertwined with it, removing Nolimar effectively as a playable option. His Up B is a literal Pikmin. Not using a bunch of Pikmin you don't have to pull out, but a separate one. Nolimar is clearly not intended as an option. And is even less possible now.

Don't take it the wrong way, though. I'd love Alph to see an upgrade or to get Louie. I just get why the focus is on the Pikmin. Keep in mind that the actual proper name for the character in the Japanese game is "Pikmin & Name". This got removed in the dubbed versions for some reason, leading to a misrepresentation of how the character works. The Captain is obviously still important, as he's the main playable option. The focus is just on the Pikmin. Pokemon Trainer literally works the same way in that regard.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I think Ultimate trumps the Brawl OST.

 

[Kuragari]

Feel free to call me a contrarian for this, but I hate 90% of the characters most fans have been pushing for to be in this game. It feels like people are scraping the bottom of the barrel for the most obscure/uninteresting characters possible to spam in fake 4Chan leaks ad nauseam. I can’t for the life of me understand the appeal of some boring Mario side character that was only in one mediocre spinoff game 20 years ago, yet people keep spamming him to the point where I physically groan every time I see his render in clickbait thumbnails. At least Ridley and K. Rool were major characters in their own franchises instead of some one-off nobodies, even if some people were kinda annoying about them (tho I’ll admit I actually really wanted Ridley cuz I thought it’d be funny if he made it in in spite of the “too big” memes).

Conversely, I think characters like Minecraft Steve and Sans Undertale get way too much flack. I’m not even that big of a Minecraft fan but I think people get way too reactionary whenever Steve comes up, as if a character from a harmless kids game is going to ruin the artistic integrity of another kids game (not to trivialize the effort that went into this game, but we need to be real about who Nintendo’s target demographic is). Sans gets the same kneejerk reactions out of people who think his game is “cringey”, but I noticed that people have kinda started to embrace him as a weird meme pick after Deltarune and the Joker reveal, so maybe people won’t make too much of a stink if it does happen, but I’m doubtful. I could go on a rant about how unfairly treated these characters are because of their weird anti-fandoms that get upset over kids having fun, but that’s for another thread. It’s okay to not want those characters, but I wish people had reasons aside from “the fanbase is bad” or whatever bs that has nothing to do with the characters themselves. I just don’t want people throwing fits if one of them somehow gets in.

I agree. I love Mario RPG as much as the next person but I don't understand all the insane want to have Geno in Smash personally as he was a side character from one game forever ago. The want to have Isaac and Waluigi in makes more sense to me though. At this point I have everyone in Smash I could ever want, so whomever ends up being the last four DLC characters doesn't matter to me. Joker was a welcome surprise.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I agree. I love Mario RPG as much as the next person but I don't understand all the insane want to have Geno in Smash personally as he was a side character from one game forever ago. The want to have Isaac and Waluigi in makes more sense to me though. At this point I have everyone in Smash I could ever want, so whomever ends up being the last four DLC characters doesn't matter to me. Joker was a welcome surprise.

Banjo, Isaac, Geno, Waluigi, Chorus Kids, Shadow, etc. all appeal to me very little. The problem is that this is really the only thread to express that opinion without getting nuked by their supporters.

 

[Oddball]

Banjo, Isaac, Geno, Waluigi, Chorus Kids, Shadow, etc. all appeal to me very little. The problem is that this is really the only thread to express that opinion without getting nuked by their supporters.

I'm okay with Banjo and maybe to a lesser extent Isaac out of that group, but the rest of them I'd prefer not to see.

I say okay with. I'm not saying I want them, just that I wouldn't complain if they got in.

 

[Robertman2]

Banjo, Isaac, Geno, Waluigi, Chorus Kids, Shadow, etc. all appeal to me very little. The problem is that this is really the only thread to express that opinion without getting nuked by their supporters.

Waluigi and Banjo would be good. Shadow too, but Sega doesn't really need any more characters.

The rest suck. Throw Ashley and Bomberman in there too

 

[Calamitas]

Banjo, Isaac, Geno, Waluigi, Chorus Kids, Shadow, etc. all appeal to me very little. The problem is that this is really the only thread to express that opinion without getting nuked by their supporters.

Out of curiosity then, what's your opinion on the most commonly talked Xenoblade characters?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Out of curiosity then, what's your opinion on the most commonly talked Xenoblade characters?

I think Elma would be cool. Haven't played XC2 yet, my friends either like or don't like it (would you recommend it?). I'm 50/50 on Rex (and/or Pyra) simply because I haven't played it, although I probably would fully support him if I had.

 

[Calamitas]

I think Elma would be cool. Haven't played XC2 yet, my friends either like or don't like it (would you recommend it?). I'm 50/50 on Rex (and/or Pyra) simply because I haven't played it, although I probably would fully support him if I had.

That's fair enough. I guess none of them really aren't commonly talked about to be annoying, huh?

Anyway, as for whether or not I'd recommend XBC2:

Spoiler: Putting this in spoiler because it's pretty off-topic

Personally, I really wouldn't. The story is overall decent at best, but also has multiple sequences that lead absolutely nowhere - filler, in other words. Rex and Pyra are terrible protagonists, not only in regards to the obvious designs, but also because of their bad writing. In terms of gameplay, the only real depth you'll find is in the game's battle system, since things like NPCs and sidequests (which for me personally were always among the things I liked the most about other Xenoblade game) are just really out of focus in contrast to the game's Blade system. And that. . . well, it's gachapon, with all the frustrations that come with it. For what feels like 90% of the time, you'll end up getting generic Blades which usually have little use in battle, while the remaining 10% of the time you aren't even guaranteed to get the kind of Blade you want on the character that you want, with switching between characters being a major hassle. And this is admittedly a rather personal issue, but I don't like how the battle system puts so much focus on the cinematic Blade specials and passive abilities.
So yeah. I'm not the biggest fan of the game. But I should stress, I'm not the best person to ask about XBC2, since the game rubbed me the wrong ever since it was announced in early 2017. Mind you, I played both the original and X when they originally came out.

 

[staindgrey]

Feel free to call me a contrarian for this, but I hate 90% of the characters most fans have been pushing for to be in this game. It feels like people are scraping the bottom of the barrel for the most obscure/uninteresting characters possible to spam in fake 4Chan leaks ad nauseam. I can’t for the life of me understand the appeal of some boring Mario side character that was only in one mediocre spinoff game 20 years ago, yet people keep spamming him to the point where I physically groan every time I see his render in clickbait thumbnails. At least Ridley and K. Rool were major characters in their own franchises instead of some one-off nobodies, even if some people were kinda annoying about them.

So I don't have any love for Geno. I liked Super Mario RPG and all, but he wasn't even my favorite character in the game and I feel like the game itself is overhyped. It's just pretty good for its time. Paper Mario is the true Mario RPG character we need.

But. I need to speak for fans of "scraping the bottom of the barrel" characters for a moment. My favorite videogame protagonist ever, bar none, is Hawke from Dragon Age II. I could write essays for why that is, but that's unimportant. You don't care about Hawke. Most people don't care about Hawke. DAII is the black sheep of the series, the one 'nobody likes'. But it's my favorite, for my reasons. And if in some weird moment of chance Hawke got into Smash Bros? I'd be so ****ing ecstatic I'd be unbearable for everyone here. I'd probably try to find a way to work Hawke into every post I make just to show off.

I mean. Look at her.

But the point is that even if the character is now irrelevant because her game came out nearly eight years ago to average reviews and she has since been replaced as the player character in her own series, she's my favorite character. And that's a subjective assertion that can't be quantified or judged because, even if it is, my opinion's not going to change. No work of fiction appeals to everybody. But every work of fiction appeals to somebody.

Let the Geno fans be Geno fans.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The Belmonts are awful

 

[osby]

The Belmonts are awful

Do you mean the characters or playing as them or getting absolutely destroyed by them?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Do you mean the characters or playing as them or getting absolutely destroyed by them?

The last 2 basically.

 

[staindgrey]

The last 2 basically.

I got beat by a Simon online despite knowing what he was going to do every time he did it.

I felt so jaded afterward.

 

[Idon]

"Oh look he's gonna throw out the stupid cross and then toss that axe and then when I dodge it all, he's gonna hit me with his fair."
it happens

Let me play the game dammit.

 

[Wyoming]

"Oh look he's gonna throw out the stupid crosd and then toss that axe and then when I dodge it all, he's gonna hit me with his fair."
it happens

Let me play the game dammit.

Perfect Shield or spot dodge?

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

The near-lack of any significant differences moveset-wise that Daisy and Richter have with their bases (Peach and Simon) just makes me even sadder that Alph is still an alternate skin for Olimar. Alph looks so weird with Olimar's animations, give him unique facial and standing animations, unique taunts and victory poses if the devs still don'twant to give them Rock Pikmin. If that's all it took to justify making Daisy and Richter separate (which I'm more than happy with btw) then Alph should be upgraded at LEAST that tiny amount as well.

If they were made into alternate characters just because of their differing personalities, then that only confuses me further as to why Shadow or Metal Sonic or whomever couldn't be a Sonic Echo. It almost feels like favouritism.

 

[staindgrey]

If they were made into alternate characters just because of their differing personalities, then that only confuses me further as to why Shadow or Metal Sonic or whomever couldn't be a Sonic Echo. It almost feels like favouritism.

Well in the end, it is favoritism. They have a time constraint and a budget, and Sakurai & co. decided on who they decided on for echoes. They couldn't put in everybody, and for unknown reasons they picked Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus and Ken over [insert some other fan favorite echo possibility here].

Technically that's totally favoritism. It's just not anything nefarious.

 

[Dan]

Mario RPG is a great game, Geno looks cool and has great moveset potential, but let's include someone like Isabelle who has no lineage as a fighter because she's relevant; relevancy is a poor argument for a character because so many enter and exit the spotlight quickly.

The gauge meter on the popularity of Mario RPG is all over the place: some people pretend it doesn't exist, others love it and some don't; I personally think it's underrated (just for the art style alone), but understand everyone has preferences.

Banjo, Isaac, Geno, Waluigi, Chorus Kids, Shadow, etc. all appeal to me very little. The problem is that this is really the only thread to express that opinion without getting nuked by their supporters.

I don't get why Chorus Kids have been getting lumped into this train; are they really that popular? They're some scrapped Sakurai pick that no one even considered pre-Gematsu; them, Skull Kid and Waluigi kind of have an artificial popularity in that they have gotten boosted to the top as knee-jerk reactions to Gematsu, furniture and blunt AT deconfirmation.

 

[Guynamednelson]

has great moveset potential

I don't really think so. Sakurai did the right thing making Geno a Mii Gunner costume, because that's all his moveset would be. The only thing different would be his Final Smash.

 

[Dan]

I don't really think so. Sakurai did the right thing making Geno a Mii Gunner costume, because that's all his moveset would be.

Simply no; not only does he have amazing variety as a gunman (shooting literal stars, beams, bullets and even his fists), but can do a lot of things with energy, like throwing discs (a move the Mii Swordfighter has that should be given to the Gunner for this reason alone), summoning beams of light from the sky and even transforming himself into a canon and shooting a freakin' sunshine at the opponent.

 

[FirestormNeos]

If Geno gets in, Mallow should follow him around like Luma.

Get it? Cuz then that'd make him a puppetmaster character? eh? ehhhhh?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If they were made into alternate characters just because of their differing personalities, then that only confuses me further as to why Shadow or Metal Sonic or whomever couldn't be a Sonic Echo. It almost feels like favouritism.

For all we know, Sega simply said no to any more Sonic characters as playable.

Sakurai may not have actually been the reason for it in any way. We got no details at this point to make an assertion. We have a different Sega character this time as DLC. Sega has been accused quite a bit of "pushing Sonic games over anything else, acting like nothing else exists", which while not true, is still a belief. Maybe they decided branching out would help their reputation? Maybe they thought nobody else but Sonic should be playable... like many of their games in recent years? Maybe Sakurai never intended the idea or even considered it. Too many possibilities.