Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[CodakTheWarrior]

The day people start saying that Fire Emblem is bigger than Zelda is the day I leave Smashboards /s

 

[Robertman2]

The first third parties to be cut should be Mega Man or Pac-Man because their movesets are complete garbage.

 

[SmasherMaster]

If echoes remain as a concept, I hope that we only get one or two added in each game.

 

[FirestormNeos]

The first third parties to be cut should be Mega Man or Pac-Man because their movesets are complete garbage.

Both are in dire need of a rework.

I recall Super Smash Flash 2 having a really good moveset for him where the default Neutral-B was his charge buster and his Down-B let you switch to various power-ups such as the Metal Blades and Crash Bomber. He also had a back-air that was really fun to recover with. Plus, Eddie the Bird was the Up-B and not quarenteened off to some dumb "custom" specials gimmick like they pulled in 4. I loved it so much, that when I saw that his inclusion was nothing like what Flash 2 did, I was legit disheartened.

PAC-MAN, on the other hand, I got nothing for. He has a Side-B I think is fun to use, but that's it. If I ever get put in charge of a Smash game, first thing I'm doing for PAC-MAN is remove that ****ing Fire Hydrant and replace it with a special that does something that wasn't created by satan himself, like send one of the pac-man ghosts after the other fighters.

If echoes remain as a concept, I hope that we only get one or two added in each game.

I'd be alright with 3-5 new echoes each game, so long as Echoes remain as easy to make as implied.

 

[Robertman2]

Both are in dire need of a rework.

I recall Super Smash Flash 2 having a really good moveset for him where the default Neutral-B was his charge buster and his Down-B let you switch to various power-ups such as the Metal Blades and Crash Bomber. He also had a back-air that was really fun to recover with. Plus, Eddie the Bird was the Up-B and not quarenteened off to some dumb "custom" specials gimmick like they pulled in 4. I loved it so much, that when I saw that his inclusion was nothing like what Flash 2 did, I was legit disheartened.

PAC-MAN, on the other hand, I got nothing for. He has a Side-B I think is fun to use, but that's it. If I ever get put in charge of a Smash game, first thing I'm doing for PAC-MAN is remove that ****ing Fire Hydrant and replace it with a special that does something that wasn't created by satan himself, like send one of the pac-man ghosts after the other fighters.



I'd be alright with 3-5 new echoes each game, so long as Echoes remain as easy to make as implied.

Down B should be a Rev Roll

 

[FirestormNeos]

idk what a "Rev Roll" is, but if it's what it sounds like (ie something similar to Jigglypuff's Neutral-B or Yoshi's Side-B), I'm all ears.

 

[Robertman2]

Eh, it's closer to Sonic's Down B

 

[FirestormNeos]

Eh, it's closer to Sonic's Down B

imho close enough.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Fire Emblem is already bigger than DKC and Kirby thanks to FE Heroes

Kirby and DK have a combined total of over 100 million sales lmao. I don't think a certain group of people spending alot of cash on one mobile game represents FE being bigger than both of them.

 

[Deleted member]

I think we should let think settle before suggesting to patch the **** out of everything. People are pretty quick to claim that a character is completely weak or overpowered.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Or maybe...

DK, Kirby and Fire Emblem are all great series and that trying to say which one "deserves" more is the speculation equivalent of saying your **** is bigger.

 

[Deleted member]

Or maybe...

DK, Kirby and Fire Emblem are all great series and that trying to say which one "deserves" more is the speculation equivalent of saying your **** is bigger.

Yeah, most of the FE reps are just clones anyway and unlike most series it has various protagonists. Which probably contributes to its larger size despite not being as big as other franchises.

 

[Idon]

Kirby and DK have a combined total of over 100 million sales lmao. I don't think a certain group of people spending alot of cash on one mobile game represents FE being bigger than both of them.

100 million sales across decades of games.

The sales growth in FE, especially the gacha FEH, is absolutely explosive.

 

[Deleted member]

Plus because so many of FE's reps are so interchangeable in my eyes, it doesn't really feel too big in quantity. Kind of like how Simon/Richter hardly feel like two reps when they're practicality the same character. The problem with FE is that people usually want their new FE protagonist in, but if you replace them with any of the old FE reps then well that'd upset people too. So you just have to keep inflating its roster. Again, most other franchises in Smash don't really have this problem. Aside from maybe Pokemon, but at least most pokemon have pretty good variety, so to me the amount of pokemon characters actually feels big.

 

[Ze Diglett]

For as much as people talk about it in hushed tones like it's the absolute bane of the Smash community, I like the Grinch leak. Yes, even in retrospect. For as much as it may have disappointed some of us in the end (though I maintain that the final Direct would have disappointed many regardless, but I digress), it at least made speculation interesting for like, two weeks, which is more than can be said for the weeks of circular "Verg-Kencineroar-Box" discussion that came before, so I appreciate it immensely for that. Besides, it was fun to imagine a timeline where the leak was real, even for a little bit, and truth be told, I think I'd like to see more leaks with anywhere near as much effort put into them as the Grinch leak. At the very least, those are the leaks that get us talking during massive info droughts so we don't have to subsist on 4chan text leaks and pictures of furniture to speculate on. In fact, in a hype cycle like Ultimate's where info droughts were rampant, I'd say the Grinch leak is exactly what this community needed in a time where hype for this game was arguably at a low. If anything, I kind of wish it had showed up sooner.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

100 million sales across decades of games.

The sales growth in FE, especially the gacha FEH, is absolutely explosive.

Well it's a free to download phone game which is designed to have people keep spending their money on it, so I don't see it as that big of a suprise.

Personally I'd like to keep free phone games seperated from full prize games on actual Nintendo hardware. For example, if there was a really successful Kid Icarus phone game, I still doubt nost people would say it's bigger than franchises who destroy that series in sales barring that app.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I wasn't sure what else to call it. Basically, you multiply the total number of Fire Emblem characters by 1.5, and that's the amount of spots Kirby, DK and Zelda need to keep things... for lack of a better word, "fair."

I can call it something else if needed.

Spoiler: EDIT:

The only reason I used part of your username for the name was because the formula was inspired by this quote:

No, no, I thought it was hilarious. I was just taken back.

Also free downloads don't count toward sales. "Sales" refers to spending money. FE Heroes is a free download. How would y'all feel if I started saying Fortnite should be in Smash because of all of it's downloads. See? If no one has to spend anything, of course it's going to download well. To "sell" well people have to give up something: money.

Also Grima should be the next FE rep. Change my mind.

 

[Sabertooth]

If echoes remain as a concept, I hope that we only get one or two added in each game.

If they're as pointless as the ones in Ultimate, then yeah I agree.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Or maybe...

DK, Kirby and Fire Emblem are all great series and that trying to say which one "deserves" more is the speculation equivalent of saying your **** is bigger.

I spit out my drink after reading this. Made me laugh a ton!

My deal is less that FE is smaller than other franchises and more that they're holding it to such a low standard. If the development team is holding Fire Emblem to such a low standard that almost all we've gotten from the game since 2014 are Marth clones and advertisements (and only two stages, which is disappointing), then I don't see the reason why we should get an eighth FE fighter. Considering the history of FE representation in Smash, there's a good chance the next FE fighter is just going to be yet another advertisement or clone of someone else. And at this point I don't care about what weapon they have, it doesn't count to their merit or anything (either another sword user, an axe user who is just a word user but with different hitboxes, or a lance user, which would be somewhat cool, but I'd rather them be outside of FE). Besides, and I don't know who else agrees with me on this, but seven fighters is certainly enough for any game in Smash (and yes, I think the Mario and Pokemon roster should be trimmed down).

 

[Sabertooth]

^Yeah, I pretty much agree. Not that it matters tho because I don't think there will ever be another cut in a Smash game, and if there is it won't be Fire Emblem.

 

[Peachach]

Smash 5 promotes annoying playstyles.. the cheap lack of end lag makes everybody jump and shoot around like a horny rabbits.

The input lag is noticable and sucks.

All chars need to be nerfed -1 projectile. The spam factor is too high.

The new chars are fun on paper, but mostly annoying.. right in the tradition of smash 4 dlc chars....

 

[Wyoming]

I am not struggling with most projectiles. Maybe you need a character that counters said play style?

 

[MapleBeasts]

The first third parties to be cut should be Mega Man or Pac-Man because their movesets are complete garbage.

That's not really a Megaman problem though. That's just the devs making a kit that is not cohesive. His moveset potential is almost limitless if you play his games. Snake should be the first cut.

 

[The DanMan051]

It is true and you should say it.
Especially when considering that X has five Spirits (none of which are in WoL), no Mii costumes, no songs, and isn't even mentioned in Ultimate's internal listing of games that it pulls content from.

So the better received and more popular game got more content while the dark horse of the series released on a failing piece of hardware didn't get anything?
Makes sense to me.

Anyways, to contribute... Ultimate honestly has me feeling ready for a reboot. There's just so much yet so little at the same time, I'd rather we just start from scratch next time around than have a game of even greater extremes.

 

[Robertman2]

So the better received and more popular game got more content while the dark horse of the series released on a failing piece of hardware didn't get anything?
Makes sense to me.

Anyways, to contribute... Ultimate honestly has me feeling ready for a reboot. There's just so much yet so little at the same time, I'd rather we just start from scratch next time around than have a game of even greater extremes.

2 wasn't that much better recieved than X lol. 83 vs 84 on Metacritic, and both have very vocal groups that hate the games

 

[Calamitas]

So the better received and more popular game got more content while the dark horse of the series released on a failing piece of hardware didn't get anything?
Makes sense to me.

Oh yeah, because Sakurai and his team were so reluctant in the past to put in content from games that underperformed, or that were not well-received by fans. Just look at all the Metroid: Other M content that Smash 4 didn't have, or the Wonderful 101 stuff that wasn't there. Or Tropical Freeze not getting anything. And Splatoon 1 stuff is nowhere to be seen, because 2 is just more popular. Nope, none of these games even made it into the internal listing of games that content is drawn from.

As Robertman2 pointed out, people tend to blow X' supposed negative reception out of proportion. In my own experience, even the fanbase was pretty chill until 2 came out and people started to become more negatively vocal about X.

 

[Madwario]

I want to remove Lucina, Robin and Corrin and replace them with Escargoon, Knuckle Joe and Bonkers.

I am such a Kirby fan And to see so few characters on the roster while FE gets so many spots is making me waaaah (rio).

 

[Sabertooth]

I want to remove Lucina, Robin and Corrin and replace them with Escargoon, Knuckle Joe and Bonkers.

I am such a Kirby fan And to see so few characters on the roster while FE gets so many spots is making me waaaah (rio).

I feel the same way as you, but it's all about how you handle the waaaah. It's okay to feel disappointed--there are about ten DK characters who I feel would be amazing Smash fighters, same with Kirby really--and sometimes it can be hard to swallow that disappointment and make the most of what's there. But we gotta. Just have to accept that things didn't exactly pan out our way in Smash history and accept it.

It's hard to fight the intrusive "what ifs": What if Funky Kong had been one of the Melee clones instead of Roy, what if they'd finished Dixie Kong in Brawl instead of scrapping and forgetting her forever? What if we'd gotten someone from Planet Robobot for promotional purposes rather than Corrin? I often find myself struggling with these thoughts, but it's important to remember not to let them overwhelm you. Hit me up if you ever need help with that.

 

[Calamitas]

Well, here's one that's apparently quite unpopular: All the excessive complaing from Kirby, Donkey Kong and Metroid fans about Fire Emblem really does not help my own perception of their series, even though I myself am nowhere near as big of a Fire Emblem fan as I was a few years ago. If anything, it negatively affects my opinion of these fanbases and series. I'm not saying that they don't have a point in Fire Emblem being overrepresented, that's not it. But it definitely does not help that the vast majority of them call for the removal of some of the few Fire Emblem characters that actually have an interesting or creative moveset, or that are actually, y'know, well-written and interesting characters in their own games.

 

[Dee Dude]

For as much as people talk about it in hushed tones like it's the absolute bane of the Smash community, I like the Grinch leak. Yes, even in retrospect. For as much as it may have disappointed some of us in the end (though I maintain that the final Direct would have disappointed many regardless, but I digress), it at least made speculation interesting for like, two weeks, which is more than can be said for the weeks of circular "Verg-Kencineroar-Box" discussion that came before, so I appreciate it immensely for that. Besides, it was fun to imagine a timeline where the leak was real, even for a little bit, and truth be told, I think I'd like to see more leaks with anywhere near as much effort put into them as the Grinch leak. At the very least, those are the leaks that get us talking during massive info droughts so we don't have to subsist on 4chan text leaks and pictures of furniture to speculate on. In fact, in a hype cycle like Ultimate's where info droughts were rampant, I'd say the Grinch leak is exactly what this community needed in a time where hype for this game was arguably at a low. If anything, I kind of wish it had showed up sooner.

Imagine if the Grinch leak surfaced before the August () and September () Directs having matched those characters poses perfectly, people would go insane lol.

 

[Idon]

y'know, well-written and interesting characters in their own games.

>Corrin
>Interesting
>Well-written

No.
Screw the dragon crap, he's a garbage character and I want him gone.

 

[Calamitas]

>Corrin
>Interesting
>Well-written

No.
Screw the dragon crap, he's a garbage character and I want him gone.

Dude, can you at least try to read what I'm writing? I said either an interesting and unique moveset OR well-written. Not AND. For the record, the only ones that I'm actually counting as well-written among the Fire Emblem cast right now are Ike and Lucina, and maybe Marth if we're stretching it. Everyone else is pretty bland, or very boring. And with the writing aside, Corrin is probably the best Dragonstone user they could've picked for Smash.

 

[Sabertooth]

Well, here's one that's apparently quite unpopular: All the excessive complaing from Kirby, Donkey Kong and Metroid fans about Fire Emblem really does not help my own perception of their series, even though I myself am nowhere near as big of a Fire Emblem fan as I was a few years ago. If anything, it negatively affects my opinion of these fanbases and series. I'm not saying that they don't have a point in Fire Emblem being overrepresented, that's not it. But it definitely does not help that the vast majority of them call for the removal of some of the few Fire Emblem characters that actually have an interesting or creative moveset, or that are actually, y'know, well-written and interesting characters in their own games.

I respect your opinion, but please understand that we need somewhere to vent our frustrations and Smashboards is probably the best place to do it. Also, I thought my post was pretty level-headed.

Also, eh..."creative moveset" is pretty subjective and I don't think any FE characters have one. But to each their own.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Wanting to cut a character because you don’t like their moveset is dumb.

 

[Sabertooth]

Ehh, it's not really that dumb. There are a lot of annoying movesets that can be quite dreadful to play against. I personally wouldn't remove anyone on the grounds of their moveset, but I can understand why someone would.

 

[Calamitas]

I respect your opinion, but please understand that we need somewhere to vent our frustrations and Smashboards is probably the best place to do it. Also, I thought my post was pretty level-headed.

Also, eh..."creative moveset" is pretty subjective and I don't think any FE characters have one. But to each their own.

I wasn't even mainly responding to your post, but rather the one you were responding to there. No offense to that person, but that one was anything but level-headed. And I get the frustration, since Xenoblade got barely anything in Ultimate, but you have to keep in mind, there are fans for each of the Fire Emblem characters, and to vocally complain about them is obviously not gonna go over well with everyone.

And really, if you strip things down to their bare essentials, you could argue that the vast majority of all movesets in Smash are not very creative. Like, I enjoy DK's moveset a lot, but all he really does is swing his big arms around and do a few kicks, something that a big part of the cast already does.

 

[Nemuresu]

Well, after taking my time to play with every guest character again and remembering my past experiences, I think I'm gonna drop a big one here:
Remember when everyone was so excited for Smash 4 because Mario, Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man were in? I do, and I dare say the next: What a more boring dream match if I ever saw one. No, really, those four characters are incredibly dull to play with. Mario's Mario, no more to say about him; Sonic is terrible, Mega Man is honestly just cursed to be a really mediocre character in every fighting game he's in, and I agree with Ryota Niitsuma (the guy in charge of MvC3) where Zero is just much better in playstyle; and Pac-Man, well, I can't say I could come up with a better moveset, but I can sure tell he just didn't make me smile in the end. While I loved Snake, third-parties weren't nice to have and fun to play with until Ryu popped up (and he's ironically a character that suffers the same fate as Mario in Capcom's fighters). I've never played Persona and I already bet Joker will be much more fun than those four.

 

[The DanMan051]

2 wasn't that much better recieved than X lol. 83 vs 84 on Metacritic, and both have very vocal groups that hate the games

Reception also includes sales, which are ultimately the bottom line for publishers.

Oh yeah, because Sakurai and his team were so reluctant in the past to put in content from games that underperformed, or that were not well-received by fans. Just look at all the Metroid: Other M content that Smash 4 didn't have, or the Wonderful 101 stuff that wasn't there. Or Tropical Freeze not getting anything. And Splatoon 1 stuff is nowhere to be seen, because 2 is just more popular. Nope, none of these games even made it into the internal listing of games that content is drawn from.

As Robertman2 pointed out, people tend to blow X' supposed negative reception out of proportion. In my own experience, even the fanbase was pretty chill until 2 came out and people started to become more negatively vocal about X.

X was despised for a while after a couple people who wrote import reviews of the first game (that ended up helping the hype behind Project Rainfall) were very mixed on things. Reception in general was rather muddled and kinda muted; you got people who'd been riding the hype and ended up disappointed that it wasn't like 1 and leaned a lot more towards the WRPG side of things and you got those who thought it was going to be bad but found it decent from the first, and those who ended up really liking it for what it is.
As far as I'm concerned, the Xenoblade fanbase is well on it's way to becoming another Final Fantasy fanbase, what with the differing aesthetics and gameplay per title.

The Wonderful 101 got a few trophies and a song or two ripped from the game. Other M was the most recent Metroid game at the time. Same deal with Tropical Freeze (I didn't even know it had much of a divisive reception); if X had released a year earlier it probably would've gotten a fair bit in Smash 4 by virtue of being the most recent and overlapping dev times. Ultimate began development in early 2016, less than a year after Splatoon 1 released and while 2 was in it's concept stages.

Xenoblade X's timing screwed it over hard, with 2 getting far more representation (as in 2 Mii Fighter costumes, a couple songs, and more Spirits) easily being explained by it being more recent and more popular.

Also, eh..."creative moveset" is pretty subjective and I don't think any FE characters have one. But to each their own.

If you're cynical enough you can boil down every character's moveset in Smash and make them sound uncreative.

Mario? Quasi-shoto whose actually unique moves basically nobody uses.
Link? He's just another swordsman with a neutral b that's a chargeable projectile; also a boomerang that gets used once in a blue moon and apparantely also bombs.
Ridley? Oh look a... neutral b that's a chargeable projectile, slashes and kicks for normals (Wolf's forte), and a command grab side special (now that's just a tired villain staple in Smash, with Bowser and Ganondorf already doing it) with his only really unique stuff being a couple of tail stabs.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Well, here's one that's apparently quite unpopular: All the excessive complaing from Kirby, Donkey Kong and Metroid fans about Fire Emblem really does not help my own perception of their series, even though I myself am nowhere near as big of a Fire Emblem fan as I was a few years ago. If anything, it negatively affects my opinion of these fanbases and series. I'm not saying that they don't have a point in Fire Emblem being overrepresented, that's not it. But it definitely does not help that the vast majority of them call for the removal of some of the few Fire Emblem characters that actually have an interesting or creative moveset, or that are actually, y'know, well-written and interesting characters in their own games.

Because FE is a scapegoat. FE isn't responsible for the massive underrepresentation of those series. It just so happens that FE being overrepresented is seen as the cause for this. But it's not. The dev team doesn't put a Kirby/DK/Metroid character and a FE character side by side and choose one of them for Smash. Sakurai comes up with the project proposal with the initial newcomer concepts and they set to work. Sometimes another fighter may be added in later, like Chrom, who was rushed in at the last second (most likely because Intelligent would have a fit if there wasn't a FE newcomer). Kirby and DK being underrepresented and FE being overrepresented are two separate things, not cause and effect.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

The boss picks weren't the greatest...